Ceramic Heathers?

Ok so today i went to buy 4mice (2for the ball python to feed, 2 to breed) and 2 pinkies for blaze.

and the guy who sold me the mice we started talking and i asked him about his heating and told him that people here told me i must buy 2thermostats and 2 heaters for every snake of different species wich require differend temps (2f for the warm side and 2 for the cool side) and he told me , no listen. i have rainbow boas and he named a bunch of other snakes (he breeds boas too) and told me i use ceramic heathers for all my snakes with a thermostat. he heats his whole vivarium to a certain point with his ceramic heather and is controled by the thormastat instead of having cool/warm and a bunch of money costing things. now he has many snakes and he's a breeder so i doubt he's doing the wrong thing.

now this would relief me from a bunch of costs for my snakes by just buying that. anyone every used them ? cause i never heard anyone naming them when i asked what can i do to not buy all those equipment.

Ceramic heaters cost more than uths. If you use a ceramic heater, you still need a thermostat. Ceramic heaters will also sap humidity unlike uths.

You don't need two thermostats for each species, you need one because they have different temp requirements.

A ceramic heater will also burn out and you will need to replace it. If you don't have problems with humidity, there is nothing wrong with using overhead heat to bring temps up a bit. But using only ceramic heaters probably wouldn't work so well, especially for ball pythons.

My best advice is to not listen to petstore employees. They are just trying to sell their products.

I prefer ceramic heaters over bulbs as I find that they don't hurt the humidity like bulbs do. They are more expensive though and most have a life in the thousands of hours.

no this guy is not a petshop guy, this guy is a snake owner which breeds mice too and i found his advert of mice on one of malta's selling sites.

Kaorte , The uth costs me 20euros, the thermostat 30euros. i have bad cool side tempretures, so i need 1UTH + 1Thermostat for the warm, and 1UTH + 1Thermostat for the cool side. plus i need those for the corn snake too . so that makes it 2 UTH + 2 Thermostats. 60euros + 40euros. a ceramic heather costs about 13euros and i only need one to heat the whole viv as he said.

btw can this be done with heatmaths too ? heat the whole ambient tempreture to a certain tempreture instead of warm and cool?

LOL!

I have to say, I have never been ceramic before ;)

Depending on what thermostat you got, you can most likely run two UTHs off one thermostat. Just put a dimmer inline with the cool side heat mat so it can run at a lower temp.

I don't know why ceramic heat emitters are so cheap where you are, here they are 40-60USD depending on wattage. Not to mention you also have to get the fixture to go with it, another 20-30USD, added with the fact that the CHE will stop working eventually and you will need to replace it. You should never need to replace a UTH unless it malfunctioned. A CHE will lower your humidity so I wouldn't recommend using one unless your humidity is fairly high in your climate.

There is something called a radiant heat panel that is basically an insulated UTH and is meant to heat the air better. Those are much pricier but if you really hate UTHs you could look into those.

still you haven't got my point, this guy heats the whole viv to a certain temp, he doesn't have a cool and a warm side. is that possible with a heatmath? getting the whole viv to certain temp instead of having a cool and a warm side?

Yes it is possible but ball pythons need a temperature gradient.

yes i know and thats why i was surprised how this guy doesn't give his snakes a tempreture gradient , and he keeps balls , boas and corns and he bred his boa this year and never had issues with not having a tempreture gradient. and thats why i came here to ask the experts about it maybe i can get an answer cause he really made me curious about it.

also , one think i have to add, since in summer tempreture really rises up here and everyone who owns snakes here turns of their heath maths (dunno if you do this too , never asked about it on the forum since i got my first snake in the last half month of summer) if they do good at summer without a tempreture gradient, wouldn't they also do good at winter without it?

I am sure most people on this forum keep the heat mat on all year. I know it is different in europe, but in the states most people keep the household temperature around 70*F throughout the year.

here it gets up to 40C on very hot days or more.

Does it get that hot inside though?

yeah of course we suffer alot heat here in summers , and in winter it doesnt get as cold as USA too. somedays you can't sleep without an ac and we can't turn on AC during day cause of our high electricity costs.

When I read the title I immediately pictured little ceramic Heathers wearing red caps with big green shoes, blue shorts and red vests.

But they all had white beards.

It's already been a very long day.

uhm , what had that to do with the post? ;/ lol

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Originally Posted by DarkSmoke

uhm , what had that to do with the post? ;/ lol

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You made a typo that said "ceramic heathers" and ladyohh's real name is heather so they thought that was funny.

lol that typo again.
any way , more answers to my question anyone? :/

hmm seems like no one has got answers. just to say it again for those who didn't understand. This is not the ceramic heater petshops sell that are like bulbs, but a ceramic plate wich throws heat from underneat.

and what i asked for since someone here told me balls can't have a cool side of 69-71F like i have, is to put one of these and heat the whole vivarium to a tempreture without a tempreture gradient but of course put the tempreture on less then the usual like the guy that sold me mice do.

Let me see if I can picture this for you.

This person uses a large ceramic plate which sits under the tank/tub/viv, therefore, the whole enclosure is the same temperature all the time, correct?

He says he keeps all of his various species of snakes with this kind of setup, and that is why you came here to see what we thought of the method, I am right?

I know that different species all have different needs, and there is nothing to say he can't successfully keep his ball pythons with this method for quite some time.

The real question becomes, how long has he used this method, and can he say with certainty it is not harmful in the long term. I don't mean 2 years or 4, or even 10 years. If balls can live 20 - 30 years if properly cared for, has he kept them using this method long enough to be sure it doesn't shorten the lifespan, or cause health problems after so many years?

I have been to many, many ball python breeders websites, and every single one of them recommends that a ball be provided with a warm side and cool side for health reasons. Since many of these people have had balls since they were first imported into the US, I'd believe them over the opinion of one person.


Or, if you choose to use the ceramic plate he is suggesting, could you set it at the proper temperature for the hot side, and perhaps use something heat resistant under the cool side to block some of the heat and still keep your gradient? That might be a workable option if you can find something suitably heat resistant, because the plate would be around 90-95 all the time, and you wouldn't want heat to damage what you are using, or worse. Perhaps something like what we call "pot holders" here. Pieces of special cloth material which you use to pick up a hot pan.

Just throwing some ideas out there for you.

Gale

Ball pythons do better with a heat gradient. I'm certain that he can keep HIS snakes with no heat gradient, because I've seen people keep ball pythons alive without heat, although how LONG they stay healthy is debatable.

If it's a ceramic pad that goes under the vivarium, vs a UTH(which is a heating pad that goes under the vivarium) I don't get the difference?

If you mean, does the snake REALLY need a cool side and a warm side, I would say yes, it does. You can still heat one end of the cage, but you'll still be using a thermostat to control the temps. How hot does the ceramic heat pad get? Hot enough to burn your snake?

If the heat is on one end of the cage, you should have a cooler side and a hotter side. Whether you can get the PROPER temps doing this with the set-up you are talking about is something we cannot tell you. We don't know what sort of vivarium, what sort of ceramic heatpad you're talking about, or what your natural ambient tempurtures are.

If you're just wanting someone here to go "Oh sure, do what that guy does, it's great!" you'll probably be out of luck. Generally the care of the pythons means trying to give them a temputure gradient, so they can move from warmer to cooler as needed.

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Originally Posted by angllady2

Let me see if I can picture this for you.

This person uses a large ceramic plate which sits under the tank/tub/viv, therefore, the whole enclosure is the same temperature all the time, correct?

He says he keeps all of his various species of snakes with this kind of setup, and that is why you came here to see what we thought of the method, I am right?

I know that different species all have different needs, and there is nothing to say he can't successfully keep his ball pythons with this method for quite some time.

The real question becomes, how long has he used this method, and can he say with certainty it is not harmful in the long term. I don't mean 2 years or 4, or even 10 years. If balls can live 20 - 30 years if properly cared for, has he kept them using this method long enough to be sure it doesn't shorten the lifespan, or cause health problems after so many years?

I have been to many, many ball python breeders websites, and every single one of them recommends that a ball be provided with a warm side and cool side for health reasons. Since many of these people have had balls since they were first imported into the US, I'd believe them over the opinion of one person.


Or, if you choose to use the ceramic plate he is suggesting, could you set it at the proper temperature for the hot side, and perhaps use something heat resistant under the cool side to block some of the heat and still keep your gradient? That might be a workable option if you can find something suitably heat resistant, because the plate would be around 90-95 all the time, and you wouldn't want heat to damage what you are using, or worse. Perhaps something like what we call "pot holders" here. Pieces of special cloth material which you use to pick up a hot pan.

Just throwing some ideas out there for you.

Gale

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Yes you understood me 100% correct. thanks for the helpfull info, i think i will still go with the UTH then. my only question remains, how much damage am i doing to the ball python since she has a cool side of 69-71F :/

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Originally Posted by DarkSmoke

Yes you understood me 100% correct. thanks for the helpfull info, i think i will still go with the UTH then. my only question remains, how much damage am i doing to the ball python since she has a cool side of 69-71F :/

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Its like getting sick; your crazy friend Johnny can walk around in the cold with shorts on, never gets a cold and never gets sick. Your other friend Bob catches a cold if he's out for a minute without a coat on.

Typically those cool side temps can lead to problems with digestion of food which will lead to regurgitation. Those temps are also very prone to bringing about respiratory infections. Your snake could "survive" with those temps but how long and what complications along the way depend on the individual snake and its ability to tolerate temps outside the norm.

Well she looks strong and never gave any digestion problems , but of course i didnt own her for much time. im trying hard to get her the right temps but right now im way out of the money, since it will be an expense of 70euros. i hope she doesn't encounter any problems till then.

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Originally Posted by DarkSmoke

Well she looks strong and never gave any digestion problems , but of course i didnt own her for much time. im trying hard to get her the right temps but right now im way out of the money, since it will be an expense of 70euros. i hope she doesn't encounter any problems till then.

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Try to get the temps corrected ASAP when money permits. Snakes can be sick for a very long time before they start to show signs outwardly that we can visually pick up on. Regurgitation is easy to spot but respiratory infections will not show symptoms until its well established in your snake. That will require vet visit + antibiotics; which is something you will want to avoid.

Hopefully you can correct the temp issue soon before you start to run into any problems.

One other thought, could you possibly raise the temps in the room the snake is in as a way to raise the cool side temps? Perhaps with a small room heater? Would that be an option for you until you can get things worked out money-wise?

Or maybe even resort to a small desk lamp beside the enclosure to help temporarily? Just putting out ideas for you.

Gale

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Originally Posted by angllady2

One other thought, could you possibly raise the temps in the room the snake is in as a way to raise the cool side temps? Perhaps with a small room heater? Would that be an option for you until you can get things worked out money-wise?

Or maybe even resort to a small desk lamp beside the enclosure to help temporarily? Just putting out ideas for you.

Gale

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i was suggested this option before about the room heater , but the way my house is setup it would take alot of time to heat the whole room, plus gas/electricity is very expensive here to leave the heater on for 24hr/day .

Could he be talking about radiant heat panels, rather than ceramic heat emitters?
Radiant heat panels are pretty nice. They're probably the best heating option, but they're rarely mentioned simply because they tend to be pricier here. They do last virtually forever, and they're very safe.

I would never trust an undertank heater indefinitely--they do eventually wear out. Some brands only last a couple of years. Inspect your UTH regularly for signs of discoloration, cracking, or wear. Any of these should be cause to replace the device.

If he's heating a bunch of cages, he might just buy some flexwatt and some cords, and wire the stuff up himself. Same number of thermostats either way.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Could he be talking about radiant heat panels, rather than ceramic heat emitters?
Radiant heat panels are pretty nice. They're probably the best heating option, but they're rarely mentioned simply because they tend to be pricier here. They do last virtually forever, and they're very safe.

I would never trust an undertank heater indefinitely--they do eventually wear out. Some brands only last a couple of years. Inspect your UTH regularly for signs of discoloration, cracking, or wear. Any of these should be cause to replace the device.

If he's heating a bunch of cages, he might just buy some flexwatt and some cords, and wire the stuff up himself. Same number of thermostats either way.

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by the radiant heat panel, is it ceramic? cause i google some pictures and it looks like his description.

i think this is what he means but how to you install them?

The panel above is the "1611 Complete" Panel including the wrap around "skirt" by Boaphile Plastics to give that clean look while preventing any temptation to climb around the edges of these units.

http://www.boaphileplastics.com/Radi...elcomplete.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DarkSmoke

Yes you understood me 100% correct. thanks for the helpfull info, i think i will still go with the UTH then. my only question remains, how much damage am i doing to the ball python since she has a cool side of 69-71F :/

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None, as long as your hot side is the correct temp. Your ball will just not go to the cool side if it does not want to be cool. That's why a temp gradient is desired. They can move back and forth as needed. I have never used a ceramic heater, but I do use radiant heat panels. From what I understand, ceramic heaters do the same thing. They heat the ambient temp, as opposed to just heating a small spot on the bottom of the cage. Make sure that you use a thermostat though, because they can get very hot.

No collection is complete without a CERAMIC HEATHER in it :8: :8: :8:.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/reptile...eat_panel.html
There's a heat panel.

Some radiant heat panels are made of ceramic:
http://www.infraredheaters.com/crp.htm
http://www.directindustry.com/prod/d...95-215135.html

I would disagree that excessively cold cool-side temps pose no hazard. When cool side temperatures are that low, what is the air temperature in the cage? The air temperature (ambient) shouldn't drop below 80F (26.6 C).

This is where an infrared heater of some kind--a ceramic heat emitter or a radiant heat panel--would be useful, as they heat the air, and not just a surface in the cage.

Maintaining proper humidity is also essential to health, so if radiant heat panels are affordable there, that's definitely the solution I would personally go with.