does outback reptiles have a good reputation?

i was looking into buying a female mojave from them.

i assume they give you the paperwork and everything.

I have purchased 1 snake from them. No problems in the transaction.

I just purchased a Black Pastel het Hypo male and 2 '08 het Hypo females from josh@outback. The sales part has gone very smooth and Josh seems like a great guy. I don't recieve my animals until Wednesday, so I will be posting my opinions once I recieve my animals and I have concluded that are in good health. The rest has gone smooth so far though.:D

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Originally Posted by Mr.longfellow

i was looking into buying a female mojave from them.

i assume they give you the paperwork and everything.

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You have no reason for paperwork on a Mojave unless it is het for something BTW. I can tell you that my het Hypo Black Pastel is not coming with paperwork. I do not plan on selling him though so it doesn't matter to me as long as the genetics are there.

Josh is a good guy.

I trust him.

Counting him, that makes like 4 people I trust. Well.....maybe a couple more, but not many.

Just bought my Female Spider from Josh. Great guy, good service and great packaging. Looking to buy from him again in the future.

I have purchased three* animals from them and i've never had any problems.

I always ask the following questions:
-who produced it
-what is it eating
-when was the last time it fed
-do you have any other info on this animal

and if the person im speaking to does not have that info, they will get someone who does. outback produces some of the animals they sell and some they don't produce they also sell. its about seeing the animal and asking the right questions IMO.

I would happily buy from outback again.

the third animal was a het axanthic male, i neglected to ask which line (assuming it was joliff for some reason) and went back to question Ian about it. He said the male was a het VPI axanthic male. I asked if i could exchange him since the female i had was het joliff axanthic, he let me return him with no questions asked (this was at a show).

i've dealt with Josh for years, befor he was josh@outbak and have had nothing but the best of luck with the animals i purchased. and he has given me nothing but the best service!

Isn't this guy a known flipper?

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...hlight=outback

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

Isn't this guy a known flipper?

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...hlight=outback
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...hlight=outback

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Ian sells thousands of animals a year. He is also one of the biggest importers. For a guy that sells that many animals he is bound to have a few proplems, don't forget about all of the smooth transactions.

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

Isn't this guy a known flipper?

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...hlight=outback

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If by flipper you mean arrogant asswipe, like many who accuse others of filpping, no

Do you have a problem with that?

I'd just rather not do business with an animal flipper.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

If by flipper you mean arrogant asswipe, like many who accuse others of filpping, no

Do you have a problem with that?

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

I'd just rather not do business with an animal flipper.

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Who do you buy groceries from?

Do you have a car?

Do you wear clothes?

Are each of those items produced by the person you purchase them from?

If not, you are a hypocrite.

I would not buy from him cause of the post from fuana show above.
I have never bought from him. Just my thoughts.

Your wasting your time trying to get me fired up man.

When it comes to living animals, I'd rather spend my hard earned money with the actual breeder.

In the case of flippers, the risk of getting in an infected or sick animal of some sort drastically increases.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Who do you buy groceries from?

Do you have a car?

Do you wear clothes?

Are each of those items produced by the person you purchase them from?

If not, you are a hypocrite.

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

I'd just rather not do business with an animal flipper.

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Better do your research then cause I know of quite a few people that would classify as "Flippers" that many people have no problem over looking. Many of them sell healthy quality cutting edge animals..

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

Your wasting your time trying to get me fired up man.

When it comes to living animals, I'd rather spend my hard earned money with the actual breeder.

In the case of flippers, the risk of getting in an infected or sick animal of some sort drastically increases.

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Getting you worked up....you give yourself too much credit.

A mistake was made. A mistake was rectified to the satisfaction of all involved.

No one at outback made those geckos. They are not responsible for them nor the condition they are in. They seem to have someone who does rehab and then gives them to good homes. This is a problem why?

I've been in the reptile business for many years. I cannot number the times someone has offered me substandard animals along with good ones, sometimes without letting me know I was getting them until I had received a shipment.

Do any of you have an idea of the number of shipments outback sends out? Do you suppose a guy might grab the wrong container of animals and send it to the wrong person? Do you suppose a bad guy would then make it right, acknowledge it publicly, and not get his panties wadded up?

There is almost always NO quarantine in the wholesale world. If you're selling a 15 dollar gecko, you can't isolate it for 60 days and still make a profit. THAT'S why it's a 15 dollar gecko. YOU, the buyer, take a chance but save money. It's the risk you take.

How many good sales has Josh made? How many of us have said he's a good guy? Quite a few. How many say otherwise? Not many.

I'd still buy from Josh. I may toy with mike since he likes words, but he works with Josh so I wouldn't hurt him too badly.

You guys on high horses are going to make me laugh long and loud when you fall. And have no fear, fall you will and laughing will I be.

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

I'd just rather not do business with an animal flipper.

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if it weren't for the "animal flippers" there would be no herp industy!

I've purchased 2 snakes from Josh and Ian recently and have nothing but good things to say about them. They are one of my favorite BP breeders. However i would not purchase an animal they received in a trade or whatever, i will only buy animals they produced themselves. I think Josh is great and i dont know what this flipper business is all about, almost every major breeder either trades or buys animals they didnt produce. Greg Graziani built up most of his collection this way. I like outback because they are big enough to be major players in the biz (panda pied, Ian's black pastel line) but not so big as to ignore your emails (like Graziani does...prolly cuz im not looking to buy a 10,000 snake). I like Outbacks quality, service, and they are willing to work with you and give you a great (reasonable) price.

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Originally Posted by gwood267

if it weren't for the "animal flippers" there would be no herp industy!

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Yes there would. Breeders would sell their own snakes to customers instead of flippers.

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

Yes there would. Breeders would sell their own snakes to customers instead of flippers.

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Do you REALLY think so?

The main reason I see, and I see it all the time, especially at that place that is virtually in a league of their own, is price.

What makes you think a breeder would sell for the same price as someone who buys and then resells?

Seems that some just don't want ANY competition.

If an animal is quality OR you buy knowing it may need work, why shouldn't you buy it? Because some guy who is greedy and holierthanthou says you won't get as good an animal as you would from him even though you pay him a LOT more for his? Seriously?

There are a lot of guys out there who sell crap. Josh is not one of them.

I buy and sell all year. I have not had a single complaint in longer than I can remember. I would bet you hands down that some of the snakes I 'flip' are of better quality at lower prices than most of what you "breeders who hate flippers" pawn off.

Josh isn't a bad guy. Outback isn't a bad outfit.

There are bad guys and suckass oufits out there. Pick on them.

By the way, where did the ancestors of your snakes originate? Got some flipped blood in there, do ya?

You dont flip a snake, you flip a house. You buy, sell, or trade a snake. And so what, if you were looking at houses to buy, do you really care whether the owner was living in the house for 30 years or just bought it last month to fix up and flip? If its a good house for a good price you buy it, if not you dont. Free market people. These anti-flipper people should go work in the white house where they can demonize snake flippers along with those evil insurance companies lol

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Originally Posted by pvdgod

You dont flip a snake, you flip a house. You buy, sell, or trade a snake. And so what, if you were looking at houses to buy, do you really care whether the owner was living in the house for 30 years or just bought it last month to fix up and flip? If its a good house for a good price you buy it, if not you dont. Free market people. These anti-flipper people should go work in the white house where they can demonize snake flippers along with those evil insurance companies lol

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Your comparison to houses doesn't make sense. You normally go see a house and check it out. You have it inspected. You can check out its history. It's a fairly long and drawn out process where you have plenty of opportunities to back out if the mojo is bad. When you're buying reptiles online you can do some due diligence but there's always the chance that when you open the box it may not be what you expected. That's when it comes down to whether the person you're dealing with is a good guy.

And yes, you can flip snakes/reptiles. Buy 20 snakes for 20 dollars each and turn around and sell them off for 40 dollars each and you've just flipped 20 snakes! :gj:

Flipping can be good or bad depending on how the breeder/seller conducts the whole deal...

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Originally Posted by sho220

Flipping can be good or bad depending on how the breeder/seller conducts the whole deal...

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And how do you think it was handled in this instance?

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Originally Posted by wilomn

And how do you think it was handled in this instance?

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Not sure...I didn't read the whole thread on Fauna...threads tend to get carried away over there...19 pages???

They have a solid reputation. I've done business with them before and wouldn't hesitate to do it again...:)

Thank you for the recommendations and kind words.

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Originally Posted by sho220

Your comparison to houses doesn't make sense. You normally go see a house and check it out. You have it inspected. You can check out its history. It's a fairly long and drawn out process where you have plenty of opportunities to back out if the mojo is bad. When you're buying reptiles online you can do some due diligence but there's always the chance that when you open the box it may not be what you expected. That's when it comes down to whether the person you're dealing with is a good guy.

And yes, you can flip snakes/reptiles. Buy 20 snakes for 20 dollars each and turn around and sell them off for 40 dollars each and you've just flipped 20 snakes! :gj:

Flipping can be good or bad depending on how the breeder/seller conducts the whole deal...

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It makes sense to anyone who understands basic business transactions. Buying 20 snakes for 20 dollars and selling them for 40 dollars is a simple business transaction. Thats the way every business transaction works. I never heard of anybody buying anything for 20 dollars to sell it to someone for 20 dollars. The fact your buying online is your problem, nobody is forcing you to buy online. You can go to a show, to a breeder, etc. I can buy a house online too and not know what im getting. Thats why if i was going to do that i would go to a reputable broker like Century21, Prudential, ERA, etc. If i go to some shady broker then i deserve what i get, thats why i need to do my research. Your point is that buying from someone else to sell is flipping, while hatching out your own babies to sell is not? How does that make sense? I can buy 2 snakes, wait till they breed, get 10 babies, and sell them. How is that any different? It's actually worse by your logic since i didnt pay for each baby, i only paid for the parents. Therefore any babies i sell for the next 10 years are pure profit since i dont pay anything for them (besides my initial investment for the parents and the maintenance). In this case im making way more profit than your buy for 20 sell for 40 example. You see how your point falls flat here?

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Originally Posted by pvdgod

Buying 20 snakes for 20 dollars and selling them for 40 dollars is a simple business transaction.

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No kidding...It's called flipping...buying snakes with the intent of turning right around and selling them is flipping...buying cars with the intent of turning right around is called flipping. Buying bikes with the intent of turning right around and selling them is called flipping. Flipping has nothing to do with breeding or whether one makes more profit than the other...you're making this more complicated than it is...

its called selling for a profit. I've never heard ANYONE use the term flipping on anything other than houses. This is when you buy a house, fix it up as quickly as possible to make as few mortgage payments as you can, then sell it. What you describe is simple buying and selling for a profit. So what if i buy snakes but dont turn "right around" and sell them but sell them 6 months later, is that just buying to sell? How do you know how quickly im gonna sell my 20 snakes, what if it takes me 6 months to sell them?

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Originally Posted by pvdgod

I can buy 2 snakes, wait till they breed, get 10 babies, and sell them. How is that any different?

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How is that different than flipping? Are you serious? Spending 2 to 4 years raising up snakes, going through all the excitement and anxiousness and doubt about breeding, and wondering if she's ovulating or if he's man enough to get the job done and if you'll get good eggs and if they'll hatch out o.k. and if you can get the babies eating and shedding....yup...that's exactly like flipping...:confused:

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Originally Posted by pvdgod

its called selling for a profit. I've never heard ANYONE use the term flipping on anything other than houses. This is when you buy a house, fix it up as quickly as possible to make as few mortgage payments as you can, then sell it. What you describe is simple buying and selling for a profit. So what if i buy snakes but dont turn "right around" and sell them but sell them 6 months later, is that just buying to sell? How do you know how quickly im gonna sell my 20 snakes, what if it takes me 6 months to sell them?

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Happens all the time with cars, bikes, guns, etc...and it's commonly refered to as flipping...

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Originally Posted by pvdgod

How do you know how quickly im gonna sell my 20 snakes, what if it takes me 6 months to sell them?

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Then that would make you a terrible flipper...:D You just ate 6 months of feeder money...

ok if you say so.....i dont see your point, any time you buy anything you dont and can't know for sure if the person or company you're buying from is a "Good Guy". You do your research, check out whatever it is your buying, and if you like what you got, then you might do business with the same person or company again. If you are happy with your purchase then you'll probably do business with them again. If you don't you'll go somewhere else. Its very simple, i dont know what you're getting at here, there are no guarantees in life or in business. If you're worried that you wont get what was advertised, then you buy in person, not online.

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Originally Posted by pvdgod

ok if you say so.....i dont see your point, any time you buy anything you dont and can't know for sure if the person or company you're buying from is a "Good Guy". You do your research, check out whatever it is your buying, and if you like what you got, then you might do business with the same person or company again. If you are happy with your purchase then you'll probably do business with them again. If you don't you'll go somewhere else. Its very simple, i dont know what you're getting at here, there are no guarantees in life or in business. If you're worried that you wont get what was advertised, then you buy in person, not online.

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lol...I was trying to explain the difference between flipping and breeding. :confused:

and your first statement above is incorrect. There are lots of breeders out there...Outback included...who are good guys...

i give up dude......i need a drink lol

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Originally Posted by pvdgod

i give up dude......i need a drink lol

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I recommend a few Sierra Nevada Torpedo IPA's...:gj:

josh will take care of you 100% always has!

i can attest to outbacks animals. i have quite a few and i can say that everything in the order was smoking hot and way bigger than stated!

outback has some of their own animals and wholesales/resells. this is no secret. either way the animals i got were top rate

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Originally Posted by sho220

Then that would make you a terrible flipper...:D You just ate 6 months of feeder money...

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Nobody should suffer from the illusion that flippers actually feed the snakes they buy to flip. There is no money in feeding snakes ...unless you're in the rodent business.

Most breeders actually feed their animals on a regular basis ...and yes, it is to their financial detriment to do so. Doing the right thing is frequently NOT profitable.

I had a great experience with Josh @ outback. The animal I originally put a deposit on was mistakingly sold to another customer prior to me calling to finish out my transaction. Josh more than went above and beyond to fix the situation by replacing the said animal with another which is just as stellar as the one I had my deposit on (Anyone that knows me knows I'm super picky about the animals I add to my collection). I was very happy with my purchase and wouldnt hesitate to do so again.

I have no BPs and am not a breeder yet. But on what I've heard and read on this forum is that I will probably deal with Outback Reptiles at some point, the BPs I've seen of theirs are Sweet :D

As far as that Fuana tread those people need to get a bit more of a life and not worry so much about an ACCIDENT. Josh admitted to a mistake and made it right. There is no way that thread should have carried on, and on... and on again. Unless they are all ETs and can't call themselves human, c'mon we all make mistakes.

I look at it this way. If I sell say, rings(BPs) and only rings I'm leaving out a big portion of the jewelry business(reptiles) so why not get some bracelets(leos) form an aquaintance and try to sell those too(traded or purchased). Call it flipping, call it business savvy, whatever you call it, it's done in every business and Outback shouldn't have been ridiquled so harshly.

So I'd buy from them in confidence. You'll get a great snake and even better customer service.

just my :twocents:

Any breeder that sells at Reptile shows will buy, sell and trade with other breeders. Sometimes a breeder will take a trade in from a customer. If you want to call them fliippers, then yes most are flippers.

However, I consider a flipper as being someone that doesn't breed their own snakes at all, buys from others, and sells these reptiles at shows.

Outback has been known to buy from others and turning over the reptiles later. Go to any show and you'll see them buying snakes. I was at a show recently and saw them buy 2 albino and 3 het for albino ball pythons for $350. I was hoping I could have met the guy before he got to their table. I would have loved to pick them up for that kind of money.

Does this make Outback a bad company to buy from? I don't think so.
As far as the Geckos, this was bad. No excuse for letting these animals out of the shop. There was no reason for that kind of mistake.

Sorry Josh.
Jim Smith

Big Gunns will let you all in a nasty leeeetle secret. He shouldn't do so, but he will. Every single large breeder in the bizz could be considered a "flipper" if selling even a few snakes they didn't produce is considered "flipping".

Most of them will get the animals in trade, but many will go out and purchase them. Big Gunns sees it a lot with exports. If a breeder has a large export and their customer wants something they don't have, the breeder will try and find it for them to add to their export.

Some do it a lot more than others. Some of the big time flippers even have important blogs on the net. It's a part of the bizz. All you need to do is ask the breeder if he/she produced it. If they're honest, and most are, they'll tell you the truth. Some however, never will, they'll tell you it's their bloodline to get more money, then go and write their important blog.:taz:


For some reason "flipping" has become a four letter word. If you don't like someone that resells any animals, you're probably going to need to buy from someone that has less than 20 snakes. It will be very hard to find someone with more that has NEVER flipped an animal. They may say they NEVER have, but there's a good chance they have.

All Big Gunns is trying to say is this. Don't just assume because someone flips some animals that they have junk. Many people that flip will sell you an animal that's every bit as healthy as anyone else. It is however your choice as the buyer to buy from whomever you choose. If you don't like someone who "flips", it's your choice not to buy from them. Remember though, you may be buying from a HUGE FLIPPER, who is in fact just a HUGE LIAR.... and you just don't know it. BG does though.:D