This doesn't look right, I need help (please look)

My adult BP finished shedding 4 days ago. While in shed he always stays in his hide box so I won't see him for over a week. As usual, after his shed he was cranky for the first 2 days. Typically after 24-48 hours he goes right back to being a total sweetheart.

On the third day after his shed, I noticed some strange behaviour from him. He was acting aggressive and downright angry- he was making "darting" type movements in a similar manor to "hunting mode". I figured, "hey, we all have bad days" and decided to give him some space. Today is the fourth day after his shed and his bad attitude continues, so I've started to worry. I decided to take him out of his tank and inspect him to try to figure out what's wrong. I noticed that his vent appeared red, so I quickly grabbed my camera and started taking pictures. While taking pictures, he opened his vent slightly and I realized it looks much worse than I initially thought.

While taking these photos I fully expected him to strike me, fortunately he did not, but he was in his striking position virtually the entire time. He was NOT pleased that I was touching him, or even near him. I literally had to use a towel to get him back in his tank. I thought covering his head would be the easiest for both of us, though I feel extremely guilty for upsetting him so much. He is typically SO tame, so I am wondering if his new found aggression is caused by being in pain.

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I should also mention that 1 month ago I took him to a vet to get a "physical" and also to have his feces tested for parasites. One of the first things my vet did was probe him (at my request) as the vet visit continued, I realized just how inexperienced she was. She seemed to lack basic snake knowledge. Now I'm wondering if it's possible she damaged him while probing him. I am extremely new to snakes (got my BP in august) so I don't know if the probing could be a culprit, but it is the first thing I thought of.

I have double checked the stats of his tank, everything appears normal. Ambient air temp is 81F, hot side belly heat is 91F, humidity is around 50%.

Also, he peed both solid and liquid right after his shed, it appeared very yellow (no blood) but I thought perhaps he hadn't been drinking much water during his shed, thus causing his pee to be so yellow. He hasn't pooped for 1 month, but I'm not extremely surprised because he chose to fast for over 2 weeks after his vet appointment. Typically I feed him every seven days, he refused two meals in a row, but has since started eating again.

Sorry to make such a long post, but I am really worried about him. The thought that he could be in pain is very upsetting.

I would appreciate any thoughts/ideas as to why his vent would look this way. I do not have a day off from work until Monday to take him to a vet (I found a much better one than the one who probed him) however, I might end up taking a morning off from work if he does not show immediate improvement.

i would absolutely be making an appointment with your new vet. This isn't something I've seen or heard about before.

What kind of substrate are you keeping him on? if its a piece substrate like aspen its possible a piece stuck to the inside of him when he expelled urine and urates and is causing the irritation you see, but i wouldn't trust anyone without experience to check for such a thing.

I use clean newsprint paper as his substrate. It is the exact same texture as a typical newspaper, only without the ink.

I was very disappointed by my last vet appointment, but I have since found a new vet. It is a husband and wife duo who have specialized in reptiles for 20 years. I have heard very good feedback about them from numerous reptile owners. It is further away than my last vet, but I would drive to the moon for a qualified and trustworthy vet.

yea, this looks more like an infection after trauma, could have been the probe, perhaps a piece of substrate stuck. Definitely has an infection going on though and I would bet it isn't to comfortable.

I will be taking him to the vet ASAP, my boss will have to understand. How is something like this typically treated? An antibiotic cream? An injection?

Is there anything I could do for him in the meantime? I'm horrified to think this could have been caused by my stupid curiosity of his gender :(

Almost reminds me of the beginnings of a burn as that area is more sensitive and usually starts to show signs first.

BUT, the blood tells me something else is going on.

I'd say a vet visit is in order. Though I really don't know what they're going to be able to do for him.

Almost makes me think your inexperienced vet probed him in the wrong direction....??

I'd soak him for a bit and maybe add a LITTLE chlorhexidine to help kill any bacteria that are present.

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

Almost reminds me of the beginnings of a burn as that area is more sensitive and usually starts to show signs first.

BUT, the blood tells me something else is going on.

I'd say a vet visit is in order. Though I really don't know what they're going to be able to do for him.

Almost makes me think your inexperienced vet probed him in the wrong direction....??

I'd soak him for a bit and maybe add a LITTLE chlorhexidine to help kill any bacteria that are present.

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I don't see any blood, its just very red. I certainly hope it is not burn related... His UTH is plugged into a thermostat. I check his belly heat with an infrared thermometer quite often.

Oh sorry, I thought I saw blood.

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Originally Posted by Dianna

I don't see any blood, its just very red. I certainly hope it is not burn related... His UTH is plugged into a thermostat. I check his belly heat with an infrared thermometer quite often.

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Just a guess, but it looks like an infection, most likely cause by the vet, he/she might nothave cleaned/disinfected the probe before using it on your snake

looks like it may just be an infection. it could come from the rats your feeding him.. if its from different places they may feed their rats other things than other places and it could cause irritation and discomfort that your snake has. just a suggestion, but i would definately have him checked out.. let us know!

UPDATE!

I brought my BP to the vet this morning, he confirmed that my baby does in fact have an infection going on in his vent. In his opinion, the infection was caused by trauma, which is visible at the vent opening. He said that due to the time-line I provided, it is very likely the trauma came from the probing by my previous vet. He went on to explain that snakes show their medical issues very slowly, so it does make sense that the infection could turn up a month after the probing.

My vet warned me that there is a possibility of further damages inside his vent that he is currently unable to see due to the fact that his vent is puffy and obviously irritated. He felt that attempting to "dig around" inside his vent would only cause more damage and trauma.

He prescribed an antibiotic (Baytril) to clear things up and requested I bring my snake back after the 21 day prescription for further inspection of his vent area. In addition to the Baytril, my vet recommended a 10 minute warm bath (85-90F) daily if my snake will tolerate it. He also taught me how to feel for backed up waste just in case my snake is unable to relieve himself.

I'm very distraught by the thought of my previous vet hurting my snake. Towards the end of the visit, she made it rather obvious to me that she was lacking experience in snakes. Unfortunately, by that point the probing was already over with. I immediately felt foolish for trusting her.

I am considering contacting the previous vet and informing them of the issue my snake is having, and respectfully requesting a refund of the 50+ dollars I was charged for the probing.

How would you handle this situation? I don't feel I'd be unreasonable for requesting a refund, but I would really like to hear some feedback from you folks. Thanks in advance :)

I don't think it would be unreasonable to ask for a refund AND the expenses you are now incurring at the new vet due to the old vet's incompetence.

Even if you decide not to ask for a refund, please do contact the old vet and let her know what is going on. You might save another snake from the same experience.

$50.00 for a probing??? Wow. You should learn how to do it yourself for future knowledge. The owner will always be more careful and gentle (I would hope anyway).

I would ask for a refund. See if your new vet can print up something saying the most likely cause was trauma to the vent area.

Follow your vets instructions and an added safety measure would be to rub a tiny bit of bacitracin on the area once or twice a day.

Sometimes a breeding male can get a red and irritated vent. This always clears it right up for me.

If it were me, I would certainly be calling the original vet back and letting her know what is going on. She should not be probing anymore snakes if she doesn't know the proper way to do it. I would also be asking for a refund. I wouldn't expect to get my money back, but it doesn't hurt to ask. I would also post a detailed online review, if possible. That might prevent some others from having the same problem. I always like to read reviews before using a particular business, I'm sure others do too. I hope your little guy is feeling better soon.

Ooh, that irks me. :mad: You would think people would be aware of their inability to work in a certain field. ESPECIALLY if it's dealing with other living things. This is ridiculous.

I love horses. Absolutely love them. But not to DEATH. Basically saying, I know very little of horse anatomy, nutrition, dental hygiene, etc. So what part of that makes me qualified to be an equine veterinarian?

Sounds to me like she needs to go back to school. That, or find a new career.


Edit: Geez, that was rude of me... I meant to say this: I really, really sincerely hope the Baytril works and he starts feeling better. Keep us posted, and DEFINITELY look into getting your expenses paid for. This never would have happened if she was qualified and knew what she was doing.

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Originally Posted by kc261

I don't think it would be unreasonable to ask for a refund AND the expenses you are now incurring at the new vet due to the old vet's incompetence.

Even if you decide not to ask for a refund, please do contact the old vet and let her know what is going on. You might save another snake from the same experience.

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I agree completely. I would send a copy of any report from your vet now. If she is hesitant I would proceed by taking her to small claims court.

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Originally Posted by Moofins07

Ooh, that irks me. :mad: You would think people would be aware of their inability to work in a certain field. ESPECIALLY if it's dealing with other living things. This is ridiculous.

I love horses. Absolutely love them. But not to DEATH. Basically saying, I know very little of horse anatomy, nutrition, dental hygiene, etc. So what part of that makes me qualified to be an equine veterinarian?

Sounds to me like she needs to go back to school. That, or find a new career.


Edit: Geez, that was rude of me... I meant to say this: I really, really sincerely hope the Baytril works and he starts feeling better. Keep us posted, and DEFINITELY look into getting your expenses paid for. This never would have happened if she was qualified and knew what she was doing.

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I agree completely. This vet should know her limitations and obviously thought it was a buck. SHAME ON HER!


Also, do some reading on baytril. It's been awhile but I think you need to make sure your snake stays well hydrated to avoid any kidney problems

Gosh that is so terrible! Glad you caught it though. I would get in contact with the previous vet and let her know what is going on. Like itskrystle said, I would ask for my money back, but wouldn't expect to get it back.

I'm glad you found a new vet. Hope the snake feels better soon! He's in good hands!

Wow...well Im glad that you found a good vet. This one sounds like they totally know what they are doing. I hope that it is just an infection from trauma and there is no other problems.

I would maybe use your pics and ask for a time to just speak with the vet in person. I know that sometimes that is a little uncomfortable....but in person is sometimes better. Present your case and see what happens. If they have integrity...they will admitt it could of been their fault. But I find that more and more rare these days unfortunately.

Either way...good luck and good job on catching that.

Not only should you get a refund from the old vet but they should also pay for all the costs from the current vet as well! If they don't agree to this then take them to court for sure. Hopefully it doesn't have to go that far, but if it does, maybe you can ask your current vet if they'll testify on your behalf and they can provide as much documentation as possible to prove it was the old vet that caused this.

Thanks so much for your responses folks :) It really means a lot to me!

I'm going to give myself a couple more days to calm down about the situation before I call the vet that did harm to my snake. The last thing I want is to get on the phone with them and become emotional, or start screaming.

I've decided I'm going to request a refund for the probing (50$, which I realize is *extremely* expensive for a probing) and I'm also going to request that they pay for his antibiotic, which was 30$. Though I had to pay 70$ for an emergency visit with my new vet (plus the cost of the meds), I don't think I'm going to try to push my luck.

I'm also going to mail them the photos of my snake's infected vent, and request that they show it to the vet that caused the damage. I feel it is important for her to know what her inexperience has caused. Hopefully in the future she will be able to admit when she is in over her head. There is no shame in admitting you might need help from a more experienced vet. Doctors recommend their patients to "specialists" all the time, vets should be held to the similar standards.

The bottom line, is that this situation is not about money (though I feel my wallet was definitely taken advantage of) the important part is that they harmed my snake, and could potentially continue to do the same to other animals. Sure my wallet has suffered, but my snake has suffered more.

Have you considered going back to the original vets office with the pictures and second vet bill in hand? I think it may be a little harder for the vet to deny you a refund if you are there in person ready to show her your proof. It may be harder to maintain your composure and not be emotional but you may have a better chance of getting a refund. Just a suggestion. I hope your snake is healing and am so glad to hear you've found a vet you can trust. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

$50.00 for a probing??? Wow.

Follow your vets instructions and an added safety measure would be to rub a tiny bit of bacitracin on the area once or twice a day.

Sometimes a breeding male can get a red and irritated vent. This always clears it right up for me.

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$50 is nuts for probing. Maybe I just have a generous vet, but when I took in 5 of my hatchling ball pythons to be examined for a respiratory infection, he probed all of them at no extra cost.

Regarding using bacitracin, while Foschi has good intentions and is telling his/her honest experience, I don't take medical treatment advice as the solid truth unless I confirm it with my doctor or veterinarian. And I mean no harm to Foschi. But you might want to check with your vet before doing any extra measures. Also, I believe I learned Baytril can leave scars. Did the vet's office do any "lactated ringers" or something like that so that the med isn't concentrated?

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

I would maybe use your pics and ask for a time to just speak with the vet in person.

Either way...good luck and good job on catching that.

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Your best approach IMO is going to be to ask the new vet to type up and perhaps initial a note on the vet visit receipt that states the snake's ventral infection appears to be from trauma that could have occurred xx days prior. Or something close in description. And print the pictures. Then make a trip to the vet in person with receipt, vet signed note, pictures and ask to speak with the office manager or vet at the old office. If you approach it with respect and confidence, do not be wishy washy about what could have happened, nor be preaching like "you did this, you hurt my snake, you mean person..." because both approaches would allow the vet/manager to weasle out of it.

If that attempt doesn't work, you should file a claim with small claims for all costs incurred with both vets. I believe it shouldn't be more than about $40-60 and most likely the vet will then back down without a fight. Then I would post a respectful but honest feedback on a site like yelp.com or multiple sites. Everyone needs to learn, the only way you can get experience on probing is to probe snakes, but one can't do it without enough instruction and regular practice. It is better to admit that you don't know than to pretend you do and "wing it" with a live animal or person against their knowledge.

Best of luck and I'm glad that you have a good vet source and your animal is on the road to recovery. :)

I agree with everyone suggesting you ask the old vet to pay for the bills for treatment. I think you should ask for the emergency visit fee as well, though. All of these expenses occurred as a direct result of the first vet's incompetence and negligence. That vet had to be quite rough to cause that sort of trauma--and then on top of that, they did not realize, or did not attend to the fact that they had injured the snake, so took no measures to prevent the infection.

hey Dianna...how is your little guy doing? Is the area looking a little better?

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

hey Dianna...how is your little guy doing? Is the area looking a little better?

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He does appear to be feeling better already, thanks so much for asking! It is hard to tell because the infection is on the inside, but the area around the vent doesn't appear nearly as red as before. His "mood" seems to be much better. He does still act a little cranky but he isn't being aggressive like he was before.

His behaviour is almost back to normal, he came out of his hide to "greet" me when I got home from work today (he used to do this every day), and even met me at the top of his tank when it was time to take him out for his meds. He fights me pretty hard when its medicine time,which is to be expected, but I am persistent and gentile, so everything is going okay :)

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Originally Posted by CA cowgirl

I believe I learned Baytril can leave scars. Did the vet's office do any "lactated ringers" or something like that so that the med isn't concentrated?

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I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by "lactated ringers" :confused: Baytril could potentially leave scars in his mouth?? I'm really confused! It's a liquid, and he takes it orally, it's a really small amount per dosage. My vet taught me to measure it out with a needle-less syringe, and also taught me to make sure I get the syringe far past his wind pipe. He told me that he has used Baytril to treat many reptiles over the years.

If you could point me in the direction of where you found that info on Baytril, I would really appreciate it! The last thing I want is more medical issues with my poor BP.

Hi,

When injected baytril can cause scarring. I have never heard of any problems with an oral dose though.

But as always I am not a vet. :oops:

Crittervet made a good post on it recently - I will see if I can find a link for you.

Found it.


dr del

Thanks very much Dr. Del, you're always so helpful :)

I'm so sorry to hear about your little guy! I'm glad he's getting to feeling better and I'm glad you posted this! I hope that this doesn't happen to anyone else's snakes! I cringe to think about how it must feel for him :( I will be asking my vet SO many more ?'s now!!!

is the baytril a cough syrup type liquid? if it is then i had the same thing. i didnt have much luck with it. if its the same make sure u get it back far enough so u avoid his/her glottis. i had that problem at first. also after u deliver the meds hold him/her with its head up so the meds can work its way towards the stomache and everything. i had a problem at first with everything just coming right back out of her mouth. good luck, i hate RI's

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Originally Posted by mpkeelee

is the baytril a cough syrup type liquid? if it is then i had the same thing. i didnt have much luck with it. if its the same make sure u get it back far enough so u avoid his/her glottis. i had that problem at first. also after u deliver the meds hold him/her with its head up so the meds can work its way towards the stomache and everything. i had a problem at first with everything just coming right back out of her mouth. good luck, i hate RI's

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Its a clear, watery type liquid. My vet warned me that I would have to put the syringe quite far back in his mouth/throat. Its was a bit scary for me to do at first, but I haven't had any issues with the meds coming back up. Afterwards, I've been using your trick of having him stand upright a little, to allow gravity to work it's magic. Thanks for your input :)

oh ya also one more thing. the stuff i got was a lil sticky so i would have her drink some water and then i would wipe her face off so she wasnt all sticky. i hope u have better luck than im having

Omigosh, I'm so sorry to read of this and see those photos. Poor li'l guy! Glad you got him to some proper medical care. Please keep us posted. Yikes!

Hi Dianna :) I'm thankful Derek was able to answer your question about the lactated ringer thinger. I am not well versed in antibiotics for reptiles, and knew Baytril was given by muscle injection, but didn't know it was also given as a needle-less oral medication. I had 5 snakes I had to medicate every 48 hours for 10 doses using needles... fun times... but I'm glad that fixed them. I'm hoping your friendly guy gets better. I'm glad to hear he seems to be feeling less pain. :sweeet:

Thanks again for all your kind words & advice folks :)

Day 5 of Gogo's meds is complete!

Now that he's on the road to recovery, I'm going to start dealing with my previous vet. Tomorrow I'm going to dig out my receipt records, and I will also be contacting my new vet to see if he could fax me a statement about the potential cause of my snake's vent infection. I realize that meeting with my old vet in person would have more of an impact, but they're just so far away... I will save an in person meeting as plan B. Plan C will be visiting my bank to start the "Charge Back" process, fortunately I paid with my debit card.

I couldn't resist holding Gogo for a short period of time, and apparently he has decided we're friends again :P He's obviously feeling much better. I snapped a quick photo, look how iridescent he is!


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glad to hear he's getting better! he looks great

that down right sucks. Im thankful my vet is good with reptiles and have had no problems so far with him. Knock on wood. Very nice to see your bp over coming its little speed bump in life. Hope everything works out for the best. :gj: