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pieds and leopards

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  • 01-11-2010, 08:44 PM
    loonunit
    pieds and leopards
    So what's the word, if any, on how piebalds and leopards are related? Are leopards some kind of new fancy-looking allele, and breeding them together is like breeding together two het pieds?
  • 01-12-2010, 08:13 AM
    Toronto Python Gurus
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by loonunit View Post
    So what's the word, if any, on how piebalds and leopards are related? Are leopards some kind of new fancy-looking allele, and breeding them together is like breeding together two het pieds?

    Leopards? new to me
    . . .this is all i found, guess you'll have to wait to hear from Mr. Kobylka
    http://www.jkobylkareptiles.com/snake_room.php?id=36
  • 01-12-2010, 12:46 PM
    henke
    Re: pieds and leopards
    I´m also very interested in some info about it. I have seen some pics of the piedjagur on Greg Graziani´s website ( i think is was) and it looks very cool but no info.

    Regards

    Henke
  • 01-12-2010, 12:59 PM
    twistedtails
    Re: pieds and leopards
    If I'm not mistaken, the very first Pied was produced by Pete Kahl. His het Pieds had a Leopard pattern. It was a kind of visual marker. My buddy actually has a trio of Leopard het Pieds that he thinks relate back to that same line.
  • 01-12-2010, 01:28 PM
    aureptiles
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Holy, nice morph!
  • 01-14-2010, 08:45 PM
    jkobylka
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Toronto Python Gurus View Post
    Leopards? new to me
    . . .this is all i found, guess you'll have to wait to hear from Mr. Kobylka
    http://www.jkobylkareptiles.com/snake_room.php?id=36

    Unfortunately I am not an expert on Leopards yet but am thrilled to be working with a couple examples of this incredible mutation.

    To my understanding the leopard mutation is dominate but is only visual when in conjunction with the pied gene. The theory that it is on the same alle as the pied, simply because you can produce the homozygous piebald that is visual leopard.

    Justin
  • 01-14-2010, 10:17 PM
    dr del
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Forgive me,

    I'm feeling a little dense tonight. :oops:

    Does that mean that the gene for leopard has two mutations in it - both pied and another pattern change?

    Or does that have to be wrong as that would make a homozygous leopard automatically have the piebald trait as well - and therefore be co-dom not dom?

    Does it work like the lesser platinum part of the platty daddy? Or more like a dominant version of the daddy gene?

    Edumacate me before I think again. :please: :P


    dr del
  • 01-14-2010, 10:46 PM
    Russ Lawson
    Re: pieds and leopards
    I think the leopard is a separate dominant (or codominant though not sure if leopard x leopard has been done yet) mutation that is just coincidentally tied in with the pied mutation due to the mutation's origins. Greg Graziani had leopards, leopard pastels, leopard spiders (all het or possible het pied) and a couple leopard pieds, leopard pastel pieds, and leopard spider pieds last year. I think he'd probably be one of the better people to ask about the mutation.
  • 01-14-2010, 11:06 PM
    sg1trogdor
    Re: pieds and leopards
    My head hurts....:rolleye2:
  • 01-14-2010, 11:14 PM
    Freakie_frog
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jkobylka View Post
    Unfortunately I am not an expert on Leopards yet but am thrilled to be working with a couple examples of this incredible mutation.

    To my understanding the leopard mutation is dominate but is only visual when in conjunction with the pied gene. The theory that it is on the same alle as the pied, simply because you can produce the homozygous piebald that is visual leopard.

    Justin

    So Justin Leopard X Pied produce a Pied???
  • 01-14-2010, 11:18 PM
    spk329
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Freakie_frog View Post
    So Justin Leopard X Pied produce a Pied???


    CAN produce a pied as it is believed that all Leopards are Het Pieds. It could also produce a Leopard Pied, a Leopard or just a Het Pied
  • 01-14-2010, 11:41 PM
    boasandballs
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sg1trogdor View Post
    My head hurts....:rolleye2:

    I.m with you on this one.
  • 01-15-2010, 01:05 AM
    jkobylka
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Freakie_frog View Post
    So Justin Leopard X Pied produce a Pied???

    Yes in theory? That is based on the assumption that all visual leopards are also pied gene carriers. I can't say for sure that is true. This could also mean you can have a leopard that looks normal... breed it to a het pied and 1:4 would be a visual leopard het pied.

    I'm not saying this is all correct, just what I think i know. :)

    One of my leopards is 100% het pied and the other is a classic looking leopard (unproven) that popped out of Ivory x YB. If it does prove to be a genetic leopard, its probably the only Leopard YB out there.

    Justin
  • 01-25-2010, 01:45 PM
    spk329
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jkobylka View Post
    Yes in theory? That is based on the assumption that all visual leopards are also pied gene carriers. I can't say for sure that is true. This could also mean you can have a leopard that looks normal... breed it to a het pied and 1:4 would be a visual leopard het pied.

    I'm not saying this is all correct, just what I think i know. :)

    One of my leopards is 100% het pied and the other is a classic looking leopard (unproven) that popped out of Ivory x YB. If it does prove to be a genetic leopard, its probably the only Leopard YB out there.

    Justin

    Hey Justin
    I would love to see a picture of the possible Leopard that came from the YB clutch. Thanks in advance
  • 01-25-2010, 02:32 PM
    Maurice Tebele
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spk329 View Post
    hey justin
    i would love to see a picture of the possible leopard that came from the yb clutch. Thanks in advance

    +1!
  • 01-25-2010, 04:49 PM
    Littlemansboids
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spk329 View Post
    hey justin
    i would love to see a picture of the possible leopard that came from the yb clutch. Thanks in advance

    +2
  • 01-25-2010, 06:00 PM
    Toronto Python Gurus
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by littlemansboids View Post
    +2

    +3!
  • 03-08-2010, 09:55 PM
    gcanibe
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by toronto python gurus View Post
    +3!

    +4
  • 03-08-2010, 10:24 PM
    jkobylka
    Re: pieds and leopards
  • 03-08-2010, 10:31 PM
    Teresa
    Re: pieds and leopards
    o you have a belly picture of the leopard that is 100% het?
  • 03-08-2010, 10:35 PM
    gcanibe
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Thanx Justin, very nice ball :gj:
    Those marks in the belly are from pied? or from the pic?
  • 03-08-2010, 11:18 PM
    JenEric Reptiles
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Wow that is one beautiful animal and a awsome project!!!!
  • 03-09-2010, 12:17 AM
    jkobylka
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Teresa View Post
    o you have a belly picture of the leopard that is 100% het?

    crappy cell phone pic I just snapped
    http://jkobylkareptiles.com/images/k...mg/leopard.jpg

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gcanibe View Post
    Thanx Justin, very nice ball :gj:
    Those marks in the belly are from pied? or from the pic?

    There are several pure white dots here and there on her belly, in addition to the ringer.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by phunkyone808 View Post
    Wow that is one beautiful animal and a awsome project!!!!

    Thanks! I think she will go well with the pumpkin pied. :)

    Justin
  • 03-09-2010, 12:39 AM
    Turbo Serpent
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Genetic mysteries abound!

    I love this hobby for the entire fact that there are so many mysterious things still unknown and breeding is like a puzzle, some pieces just don't look like they will fit but when combined make a pretty picture.
  • 03-09-2010, 01:05 AM
    chago11
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Quote:
    :bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow:
  • 03-09-2010, 01:47 AM
    BoaRepublic
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Great thread and great information! I've felt quite in the dark about these guys. I got a pied male from Pete which was a 2005. His pattern of course is a little wacky, but it didn't look abnormal for a Pied.

    Here is a picture of a Het Pied male I produced in 2009 that totally looks "different" to me. I just wanted to post it here and see if I could get opinions?

    He was produced by a Pied x Spider. The Spiders look....I guess...alot nicer than most other spiders I've produced. However, it's hard for me to just go off that because the female Spider is super nice herself, with very high white and very blush colors.

    Anyways, here's some pics. Justin if you or anyone else here with experience regarding he leopards have opinions on these, I'd appreciate it! :)

    Het Pied: (leopard?)
    http://boarepublic.com/Host/l2.jpg

    Spider Het Pied: (leopard?)
    http://boarepublic.com/Host/l1.jpg

    Thanks!
    Alex
  • 03-09-2010, 02:08 AM
    Russ Lawson
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Alex, I've seen several of the leopards, leopard pastels, and leopard spiders that Greg Graziani has in person, and neither of those two looks like a leopard to me. The head pattern on them is usually a dead giveaway (even combined with the spider gene), and neither of those has it.
  • 03-09-2010, 02:49 AM
    BoaRepublic
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Thanks for the quick response Russ :)
    Ok cool. That's good to know cause I sold other Het pieds first before these and the Spiders, well, I guess I was just hoping they'd throw something cool later! I can then part with the hets and feel confident I'm not letting the gene slip from me :P I'll keep the spiders het pied regardless!

    Is there a significant difference in the offspring once combined with other morphs (Spider, Pastel, Bumble Bee)?

    I think what I'm mainly curious about, is are Leopard Spider Pieds any different than non Leopard?

    Thanks again!!
    Alex
  • 03-09-2010, 12:14 PM
    Russ Lawson
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Alex, the head is different on the leopard spider pieds than just a regular spider's head. That's really the only way to tell, and unfortunately, it's hard to describe. Greg Graziani had one available on his website earlier this year, and it was clearly different (the picture is no longer there otherwise I would tell you to check that out). As far as with pastels and spiders, the leopard trait does warp the body pattern a bit too. You won't confuse it with a normal on a pastel, but it's a bit harder to tell on a spider. That head is usually what you can know it by on the spider though. My suggestion would be to try to make it to a show Greg is attending later on this year when he has more available and to study them a bit, as he had the most of anyone else I saw last year, and I'm sure he'll have even more this year.
  • 03-14-2010, 05:02 PM
    Russ Lawson
    Re: pieds and leopards
    Alex, I was cruising the web today, and found a photo of a leopard spider. If you scroll down on this page and click on the thumbnail for it, you can see what I'm talking about as far as the warped pattern, especially the head pattern. Hope this helps!

    http://www.clockworkreptile.com/Our_Collection.php
  • 03-14-2010, 07:45 PM
    hmj75
    Re: pieds and leopards
    thanks for the pic...after seeing that spider het leopard you can tell pretty easy by the pattern and the "spots" on the bottom running on the body..
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