Thinking about breeding mice

So I've been thinking about breeding mice. I'm tired of paying an arm and a leg at PetCo for mice and rats, and the only other place that sells rodents in town (or within and hours drive) is a woman who I'm pretty sure probably caught her breeder rats in her attic.... it's gross over there.

Anyways, I'm looking at starting a small colony. I have been reading what I can about it, and the biggest debate I've seen is leaving the male in or separating him when the females get pregnant.

If you do separate the male, could you put him in with the weaned males? Basically I would like to do this with 3 tubs, one for the breeding group, and tubs for the grow-ups, one for the males and one for the females. Would that be do-able, or am I looking at the death of many mice?

For those that separate the males, do you give the females a different diet while they are pregnant or nursing? Do you feed the just weened the same thing as the adults?

I've read that 3 months is a good age for the females to start breeding, but what is a good age to retire them? I've seen a year old in at least one place. Do you limit how many litters your females have in their lifespan? Or just let them keep going until numbers decrease?

I'm just kinda looking for personal experiences here. I've read many threads on here, and also several mouse breeders websites (which are much more stringent, and a nice source for comparison) to try and find good boundaries on ages and housing. Any input will be helpful... I'm still gathering ideas for now to see if this is feasible or not.

Thanks!

warning they stink bad & are hard to get going Ive tried seral times & failed,some may say its easy but Ive got ASFs instead,rats are easy also.But Ive heard if you get them as weans & raise them up & start a colony established its easy. good luck.

I know they stink, and I was thinking about asfs, but I don't know. I don't want to breed rats, b/c I don't have the freezer space to keep them and I don't have anything that would take a full grown rat, so they would out grow my snakes. ASFs and mice would be better options, but I also don't want to get my snakes stuck on one type of food. Right now they eat both mice or rats, whatever I have availible. I may still look into the ASFs, but I'm just kinda "window shopping" for now. ^_^

Give them a diet with a protein content of around 20%.

I kept all of mine together at all times, and they would breed just fine. One thing to note, and is the reason why most people fail at breeding them, is diet and having a bad male. Never go with colors when it comes to picking out your male. I trust be juicy albino males to get the job done.

I breed wild type mice. I would not put the father in with the weaned males. Mice only due well if they have been raised together and even then males can get aggressive.

I don't think its hard at all. I will say that my males do tend to get aggressive around breeding age. They usually start beating up on the weakest member of the group. I feed that one off and they restructure and start beating up on the new low man. So hear is my advice. Get 4 tubs, I go with 2 that have about the floor space of a 10 gallon aquarium and 2 that are one size up from that. I then have a shoe box sized tub in case I need to separate one. Get 5 cheep water bottles and some food. I feed http://www.kaytee.com/products/kayte...-mouse-rat.php because I can get it locally. If you are breeding on a larger scale than I am there are many posts on cheaper food. Then my process is simple. Get 1 male and 2 females and put them in one of the larger tubs. Wait till you see your females looking like visibly pregnant. Its pretty obvious once you have seen it a few times. Then take the male out and put it in a small tub. When the babies are ready to ween, split your mice into males and females. Whatever you have more of goes in the remaining large tub and whatever you have fewer of goes in the smaller tub. Then grow the babies up, I wait till they are 30 grams. Then feed the males (stinkier and more aggression issues) followed by the females. If you need to breed again get another two tubs. I like to have more setups than I have mice just in case. Its also much easier to clean if you can just move a group of mice to a clean setup, clean the dirty setup and repeat. I don't worry about inbreeding because what I do is way better then what they do for lab mice. But if you are worried, you can save two female weanling, grow them up and buy one more male to get a new trio. Good luck.

you dont want them stuck on mice!! ASFs at least are 4 times bigger than mice when they retire!

I don't leave my males in with the females, males stink and mark everywhere so I only keep enough around to get the job done, they stay in with the females until they start to look pregnant then go back in their own cage or get rotated with other females. I keep 2 females per tank (10 gallon). Males will fight other males so probably no on keeping them with weaned males. You can leave the males in if you want, I just prefer to keep smell and mess down.

Always feed off males first before they start killing each other. I feed my males off at 4 weeks but I'm feeding 6 ferrets and a cat, I keep back females to grow as snake food. I don't keep track of how many litters mine produce, they just get retired whenever they stop producing well. I feed them all the same thing, lab block constantly with occansional greens, meat scraps and rat/hamster seed mix.

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Originally Posted by greghall

you dont want them stuck on mice!! ASFs at least are 4 times bigger than mice when they retire!

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Me either greghall. I will PM you my address when should I be home to take receipt of the ASF trio. For some people its not as easy as "get some ASF's" They are illegal in some places and just plain hard to find in others. If you have one snake that started on F/T had to be switched to live and has resisted all attempts to eat F/T since, picking up a breeding pair of rats is not a great solution either. I would get 1 to 3 feedings at a decent weight and then a bunch of rats that are too big. At least with mice I can feed multiple full grown adults. I would love to switch my snake to gerbils. I can get a breeding pair locally and BP love them. They have virtually no smell and are easy to handle and work with. Problem there being that everyone on the planet thinks that Gerbils are like crack cocaine wielding a knife. So until someone does an honest study on that I am not going there. Plus Gerbils are hard to breed compared to rats, ASF's or mice.

Well around my area everybody is real low on every kind of feeder cant get what I need either wont make that mistake again ASFs will be booming in about 2 to 3 months!

Awesome, thanks guys! For those of you that take the male out, do you have several adult males so the guy that was just breeding won't be moved to a cage by himself, or do you just let him live along in between breedings?

I leave him alone. Males are smelly and aggressive. The less you have the better. Don't feel bad for the little guy. He has to stay by himself for a little while and then he gets to hang out with two females for a few weeks without having to fight with other males for their attention. If you still think he will be lonely get him a wheel or something. I don't give mine one because they just stink that all up too but, your mice, your call.

Males go by themselves if they aren't being "studded out". You can't keep them with females you don't want pregnant and you can't keep them with other males when they are sexually mature like that, they will fight, injure and possibly kill other males.

most breeders here house their breeder male(s) together with one or more neutered males, keeping them alone would be against the animal welfare law...
but it's not that common in the US, isn't it?

quite an informative site about male mice behavior and neutering:
http://das-maeuseasyl.de/doku.php/en/behavior/male_mice

would this be an option for you?

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Originally Posted by susi´s trainer

most breeders here house their breeder male(s) together with one or more neutered males, keeping them alone would be against the animal welfare law...
but it's not that common in the US, isn't it?

quite an informative site about male mice behavior and neutering:
http://das-maeuseasyl.de/doku.php/en/behavior/male_mice

would this be an option for you?

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are you sure about that?

many just leave the male in with the females and babies.
some just swap the male to another tub with females that are ready to be bred. i leave my male with the females and babies.

Some males act diff. and mice do stink. You will need more tubs if you plan on not inbreeding. I let mice keep doing what they do best and thats populate till they cant. No retire plan needed. In the wild they last 5months, in your home 2years. Females can become pregnant at two and a half weeks old and I choose to not leave them with females nor males do to the fact that they become stress or act off fear and eat the young(although some may do fine its just not a risk I take). As far as diet I dont choose one just your regular ol' lab blocks. I put a vita-C drop in the water for the ladys and they seem to do great.

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Originally Posted by susi´s trainer

most breeders here house their breeder male(s) together with one or more neutered males, keeping them alone would be against the animal welfare law...
but it's not that common in the US, isn't it?

quite an informative site about male mice behavior and neutering:
http://das-maeuseasyl.de/doku.php/en/behavior/male_mice

would this be an option for you?

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Ok so a few comments. I do not see anything wrong with keeping a male mouse by itself for a few weeks vs feeding that mouse to a snake and buying a new stud for 2 dollars at my local pet store when the time comes. There is no way I am paying to have a male mouse neutered. This falls under the category of doing all I can reasonably do for my animals. With the majority of the people on the planet killing the mice in their homes I find it to be an unbelievable waste of time an energy to sterilize one. So lets break down the options

1.) Keep the male mouse with other males. (Cruel as they will fight and injure each other)

2.) Keep the male all by his lonesome. (Cruel cause he is lonely)

3.) Feed off the male and get a new stud when needed (Promotes inbreeding if you use a juvenile male you have or promotes a petstore raising mice which is 1000 times worse than the conditions I raise mice in)

4.) Neuter a male for a cage buddy. (Costs way more than 2 dollars and I could never live with myself if I got a mouse neutered while simultaneously breeding mice to feed to my snake. I would much rather donate the money I would have spent to get local stray cats neutered.)

Thats all I found for options and option 2 sounded like the best to me. If you just can't stand the thought of that male mouse being all alone. You could build a basket out of quarter inch hardware cloth large enough for the male to live in. Put that in the cage with the females. That way the male can socialize through the mesh but not breed the females. I would not put the male in with the nursing mothers though as the pups could get through the mesh.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

Ok so a few comments. I do not see anything wrong with keeping a male mouse by itself for a few weeks vs feeding that mouse to a snake and buying a new stud for 2 dollars at my local pet store when the time comes. There is no way I am paying to have a male mouse neutered. This falls under the category of doing all I can reasonably do for my animals. With the majority of the people on the planet killing the mice in their homes I find it to be an unbelievable waste of time an energy to sterilize one. So lets break down the options

1.) Keep the male mouse with other males. (Cruel as they will fight and injure each other)

2.) Keep the male all by his lonesome. (Cruel cause he is lonely)

3.) Feed off the male and get a new stud when needed (Promotes inbreeding if you use a juvenile male you have or promotes a petstore raising mice which is 1000 times worse than the conditions I raise mice in)

4.) Neuter a male for a cage buddy. (Costs way more than 2 dollars and I could never live with myself if I got a mouse neutered while simultaneously breeding mice to feed to my snake. I would much rather donate the money I would have spent to get local stray cats neutered.)

Thats all I found for options and option 2 sounded like the best to me. If you just can't stand the thought of that male mouse being all alone. You could build a basket out of quarter inch hardware cloth large enough for the male to live in. Put that in the cage with the females. That way the male can socialize through the mesh but not breed the females. I would not put the male in with the nursing mothers though as the pups could get through the mesh.

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you forgot the part where its not illegal ;)

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Originally Posted by Egapal

You could build a basket out of quarter inch hardware cloth large enough for the male to live in. Put that in the cage with the females. That way the male can socialize through the mesh but not breed the females. I would not put the male in with the nursing mothers though as the pups could get through the mesh.

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Quick side note....the can still breed like this. Even having two cages butted up next to each other they can and will breed through the cage...



I hadn't ever thought of fixing mice...Not really an option for me, but interesting nonetheless.

I'm really thinking that I may set up two small breeding groups (1-2 or 1-3) so when I bring up a new male or female I have the option of not inbreeding them. I'm going to start checking around and seeing what tubs I can find around here and see what kind of set up I can make work.

Where do you guys get your mice to start your colonies? I know I'm not getting them from PetCo...

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Originally Posted by nixer

you forgot the part where its not illegal ;)

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Can you please site the law that makes it illegal for me to keep a single male mouse in a cage by itself. I am having a hard time finding that one. A link would be nice if its not too much.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

Can you please site the law that makes it illegal for me to keep a single male mouse in a cage by itself. I am having a hard time finding that one. A link would be nice if its not too much.

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im not the one that said it was illegal :salute:

see post #13

Um guys?

It might be because she is on a different continent where they have different laws? :rolleyes:


dr del

I feed my snakes a variety of mice, rats and asf's and raise all three. they don't have to be too stinky. You change your litter frequently, you give them vanilla in the water and you keep male mice away from female mice except to get them knocked up.
It is pretty hard to have a small colony. I need at least 40 full size mice a month (or combination of feeders) That calls for a few mice/rats/asf's

Ah, I don't need *that* many a week... 10 or so... most likely less since I need 10 of the tiny PetCo mice. If I had full grown mice I don't think it would be that many. Granted, there may not be many that make it to full grown. Part of the reason I'm leaning towards mice is that if I don't produce enough, I can get plenty here in town. I don't like PetCo, but they do have mice if I need them.

Does anyone put a "litter box" in with their mice? I read somewhere that mice are decently easy to convince to use a litter box, which makes clean much easier since you just empty the litter box as opposed to having to do a full change every time.

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Originally Posted by dr del

Um guys?

It might be because she is on a different continent where they have different laws? :rolleyes:


dr del

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Yeah as a general rule when I post I am talking to or in regards to the original poster who is from Stillwater, OK. Susi´s trainer appears to be from Germany or some other European country. My point was that I see no need for neutering a male if you do not have a law requiring you to do so. Keeping a male by itself between breeding is not, in my humble opinion, abusive.

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Originally Posted by tweets_4611

Ah, I don't need *that* many a week... 10 or so... most likely less since I need 10 of the tiny PetCo mice. If I had full grown mice I don't think it would be that many.

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In order to recommend how many and what size breeding groups we would need to know how many snakes you have, what size they should be eating, and whether or not they will take F/T.

If they will take F/T then breeding rats and freezing them when they hit weight is a great option as you can let them grow bigger as your snakes grow.

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Originally Posted by tweets_4611

Does anyone put a "litter box" in with their mice? I read somewhere that mice are decently easy to convince to use a litter box, which makes clean much easier since you just empty the litter box as opposed to having to do a full change every time.

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Mice and more so males use urine to mark territory so a litter box will only get you so far. I find that with a large group they will tend to use a particular corner or their tub. I spot clean that corner every other day and put down some baking soda to absorb the oder and cover that with bedding from the center of the tub and then put a hand full of fresh bedding in the center.

When i do a full substrate change for my BP I will reuse that aspen cut with 50 new aspen for my mice. I don't have issues with water bowls spilling and I spot clean constantly so the bedding I take out of the snake enclosure is just like new. If soiled at all its soiled from the feeder mice that have been in the cage and even then less so than after a single day in a mouse tub.

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Originally Posted by singingtothewheat

They don't have to be too stinky. You change your litter frequently, you give them vanilla in the water and you keep male mice away from female mice except to get them knocked up.

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Stinky is a relative term. Using all of the techniques singingtothewheat suggested as well as spot cleaning between full litter changes I still find a mouse tub stinks a lot more after 3 days than my pet gerbils cage after 3 weeks. Whatever you do the easiest advice to follow that will make the most impact is feeding your males before your feed your females. Adult females are easier to deal with than adult males.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

In order to recommend how many and what size breeding groups we would need to know how many snakes you have, what size they should be eating, and whether or not they will take F/T.

If they will take F/T then breeding rats and freezing them when they hit weight is a great option as you can let them grow bigger as your snakes grow.

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I have 5 snakes. The largest being around 1800g and the smallest around 300g. I'm not too worried about figuring out exactly how many mice I'll need now, b/c if I come up short, I can supplement from the store until I get the numbers right. F/t isn't really an option for me for now... I just don't have the freezer space, and won't for a while. I'm also not too huge a fan of working with the F/t.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

Mice and more so males use urine to mark territory so a litter box will only get you so far. I find that with a large group they will tend to use a particular corner or their tub. I spot clean that corner every other day and put down some baking soda to absorb the oder and cover that with bedding from the center of the tub and then put a hand full of fresh bedding in the center.

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The litter box idea came from a breeders website. I figure it can't hurt to try it.... Once I get everything set up I'll see about trying it or not.

I'm planning on keeping the mice in by the litter boxes for my cats (it's an open, out of the way area) so hopefully they won't stink too bad, or if they do, it will just be the corner that already stinks sometimes b/c of the litter boxes :P

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Originally Posted by tweets_4611

I have 5 snakes. The largest being around 1800g and the smallest around 300g. I'm not too worried about figuring out exactly how many mice I'll need now, b/c if I come up short, I can supplement from the store until I get the numbers right. F/t isn't really an option for me for now... I just don't have the freezer space, and won't for a while. I'm also not too huge a fan of working with the F/t.




The litter box idea came from a breeders website. I figure it can't hurt to try it.... Once I get everything set up I'll see about trying it or not.

I'm planning on keeping the mice in by the litter boxes for my cats (it's an open, out of the way area) so hopefully they won't stink too bad, or if they do, it will just be the corner that already stinks sometimes b/c of the litter boxes :P

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If I were you I would start with a single colony of 1 male and 3 females. I would recommend something like this 64 Quart Sterilite tub with latching top. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...ct_id=10401052 this link is for 6 tubs for 35$. Then I would get some 1/4" galvanized hardware cloth. http://www.tractorsupply.com/fencing...-5-ft--3627063 Next with a utility knife cut a large square out of the center of the tubs top. I then use an old soldering iron to burn holes about two inches apart all along the ouside of the square you just cut. Then cut a piece of hardware cloth so that it covers the square hole in the tub top with about an inch overlap. Finally secure the hardware cloth to the tubs top with zip ties through the small holes you burned in the top. For water I use the soldering iron to burn a larger hole near the bottom and push the water bottles spout through that hole. The water bottle should be on the outside of the tub with only the part they drink from exposed. Finally secure the side of the bottle to the outside of the tub. An easy way to do this is to take the piece that you would normally hang in the tank and glue it to the outside of the tub.

I am seriously into overkill. I like to have 4 tubs for 1 colony along with one small tub for a single stud mouse to hang out in while I clean. I keep the stud and 3 females together in one tub. Shortly before the pups are born I put the male in his own tub. Then when they are ready to wean I sex the weanlings into a male tub and a female tub. So at one point I will have, 3 breeding females for tub 1. The breeding male in tub 2. The weanling females in tub 3, and the weanling males in tub 4.

On cleaning day you put the breeding male in a small holding tub and clean it. Then Move cycle the mice through till they are all clean. Pretty simple. Now if you want to make a new colony you just get a few more tubs and take 3 weanling females that have been given time to mature to breeding age and put them in a tub with either a brother or a new male.

I would not worry to much about inbreeding. Keep in mind that lab mice are 23 generation inbred before they are suitably identical for experimenting on. I keep decent record and won't go more than one generation of inbreeding. Twice now when traveling I have brought a tub and picked up a male mouse on my way home from a local mom and pop pet store.

All my mice breeding groups are left alone. Each group is 3 males 6 females and i never separate the males ever. I sell many pinkies to ppl needing them there for i dont mind the extra mice.

All depends on how many mice you want and how fast. With my setup im produce 400+ mice a month

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...k/100_2293.jpg

I've got 3 small colonies of 1.4 mice going. They really aren't any tougher than asf colonies to start. Just put them together as juvies and nature will do what it does. I really don't find either of those any tougher than regular rats to breed, either.

I leave my groups together at all times, and remove babies once they're old enough to wean. they go into 20L growout tanks until they're big enough to feed or freeze.

Best of luck.