It seemed so wrong, but felt so right...

I had never done “it” before….lots of heavy breathing, long anticipation, the longing for the real thing!

I treated my precious animals to live food for the very first time – My baby ball ‘Muffin’ has NEVER been fed live food, nor has my 17 year old adult. For some reason today I got a wild hair and decided to feed them live rodents. I went in knowing the risks and decided ahead of time that I would keep a very close eye on the rodent, and keep the tongs attached to the feeder until it stopped fighting.

For me, it was the wildest thing I had ever seen, in the flesh. Normally when I feed F/T, I do a little dance and dangle, and then I get a rather sluggish pull at the tongs, and then a ‘thud’ and it’s done. Simply drama free. With the live feed, I put the container with the rodents in for a short time and those snakes came alive like I had never seen them before….the real predators came out in what I thought were sweet little slithering puffs of goodness.

Anyway, for ‘Fat Nico’ my adult BP, I had to crush the rats’ feet, to prevent it from scratching Nico. Muffin’s mouse was far worse however, I had to take my hemostats and crush his face to get him to calm down. I was terrified of these rodents hurting my animals, so the tongs never left my grip.

I now recognize how easily this could have gone awry, but the snakes got to those rodents faster than I have seen them do ANYHTING. It was quite a sight, and it happened so fast, that I would have missed it if I hadn’t been intent on not letting the rodent scratch/bite my snakes.

What an experience for a ‘Live feed’ virgin – I just had to share….

I am assuming that I can’t go back to F/T now?

yikes you crushed the live animals feet and face? That sounds horrible! :O

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chocolate Muffin's

I had never done “it” before….lots of heavy breathing, long anticipation, the longing for the real thing!

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Sounds fun! Congrats on Your First Time!!! I remember my first time.. What a thrill, it really gets your adrenaline going when you've never done it before!
~Brandon

So what was the point of feeding an animal that is very well adjusted to eating f/t a live meal? You are probably going to have a hard time getting them back on f/t now. I personally once I get my animals eating frozen will keep them on that, because its cheaper and there is no risk of a bite. I just don't see the point in changing up the diet of an animal that is known for being extremely picky when it comes to food. Good luck.

I feel very fortunate that my BP accepts f/t. I would never put her on live unless it became absolutely necessary. I like to do what I feel is safer for my snake.

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Originally Posted by kjinxx2

yikes you crushed the live animals feet and face? That sounds horrible! :O

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Sorry about that, but the welfare of my snakes came first. I din't realize how maternal I was about them until I felt like their safety was in jeopardy. I love them sooo much.

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Originally Posted by aaramire

So what was the point of feeding an animal that is very well adjusted to eating f/t a live meal? You are probably going to have a hard time getting them back on f/t now. I personally once I get my animals eating frozen will keep them on that, because its cheaper and there is no risk of a bite. I just don't see the point in changing up the diet of an animal that is known for being extremely picky when it comes to food. Good luck.

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Hi Allie,

I have been growing tired of frozen food for the younger one for awhile. I knew that once I started on live that I might not be able to go back to F/T, and I am 100% fine with that. I really don't want to go back to it now that I know that I can safely feed on live. Its a switch that I have been wanting to make for a long time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by python1024

I feel very fortunate that my BP accepts f/t. I would never put her on live unless it became absolutely necessary. I like to do what I feel is safer for my snake.

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I agree with that, its just that I have been wanting to make the switch for a long time. My preference would be to purchase PK food, but that is not an option for me where I live. I want them to stay on live feed and I will ensure that they don't get injured.

If you feel that you can safely feed your snakes live, then by all means, go for it! I just prefer to feed f/t because for me it is convenient and it is what my snake accepts.

I guess I am curious, why was it so important to you to make this switch? Most people make the switch the opposite way...

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Originally Posted by Chocolate Muffin's

...I had to crush the rats’ feet...I had to take my hemostats and crush his face to get him to calm down.

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Maybe its just me. I hope not. But thats pretty horrific. How did that feel for you? Because if it were me I would be pretty upset at myself for doing something like this. The mouse didnt calm down. He had his face crushed.

Even tho they are feeders they still deserve your respect; they are keeping your snake alive after all.

Maybe I'm just a big softy.

edit: I just wanted to add that in the past when I have had to feed live I just use a small peice of cardboard from the back of a note pad to seperate any kicking feet / teeth from the snake. Just have to hold it there for 30 seconds or so lol

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Originally Posted by flynn

Maybe its just me. I hope not. But thats pretty horrific. How did that feel for you? Because if it were me I would be pretty upset at myself for doing something like this. The mouse didnt calm down. He had his face crushed.

Even tho they are feeders they still deserve your respect; they are keeping your snake alive after all.

Maybe I'm just a big softy.

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Yea i think thats what it is...

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Originally Posted by DBD

Yea i think thats what it is...

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Maybe Ill have to start crushing some faces to toughen up :P

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Originally Posted by flynn

Maybe Ill have to start crushing some faces to toughen up :P

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It worked for me!! LOL

Is there a reason to feed live if your snakes take defrost..crushing heads & feet seem cruel & unnecessary..Other than just to satisfy your own personal pleasure..what is the point! what makes it worse you are on here boasting & gloating on your behaviour..pathetic if you ask me..their is a world of difference in feeding live prey naturally..cruelty is a different matter

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aaramire

I guess I am curious, why was it so important to you to make this switch? Most people make the switch the opposite way...

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I personally don't like a few things about F/T food, but these are kinda my own personal hang ups:

1.) I hate having to thaw the food to feed them. If it is not warm enough they don't take it and I don’t like the smell, the mess and the inability to reuse frozen, un eaten foods.

2.) I also don't like having to keep frozen rodents in my freezer, and resent having to purchase a separate freezer just for rodents.

3.) I don’t like having to try and simulate a live animal’s movement in order to stimulate a feeding response. I feel like I somehow cheating them by going through great lengths to create a natural world for them.

4.) My preference would be to purchase F/K food, but it’s not an option.

5.) It took me a long time to come around to the idea of live food because I didn’t want to ‘kill’ anything. Today I discovered that I don’t have to, the snakes do all of the killing, and my role is to protect them in the process.

6.) I don’t have any blood soaked baggies to toss and I feel like my animals are happier. It went so fast today, If I’d had blinked I would have missed it. Much faster than the whole thaw, heat, dangle routine….

I feel so free now, its hard to explain.

Well it seems to me that alot of the problems you had with f/t are because you had crappy quality rats. I NEVER have smelly or messy f/t prey, and I never have bloody anything to throw away. Try getting some decent rats and you may find it makes a huge difference. Also, I am not sure why you had to buy a seperate freezer if you are only feeding two snakes... I feed two retics and a small boa and I keep the rats in one small shelf on my freezer.... no more space is needed. Personally I think feeding live is gross, the rats smell and poo and pee everywhere on the snake, and its a pain to lug them around when I can just go to the freezer and get some rats out and thaw em and be done. Not to mention the price, I don't know where you buy your rats but I have paid upwards of 7 dollars for ONE live rat.... sometimes as much as 10 or 15 dollars. Now, I pay 20 dollars for a bag of 20 small f/t rats.... sounds like a good deal to me... Maybe I am missing something here?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flynn

Maybe its just me. I hope not. But thats pretty horrific. How did that feel for you? Because if it were me I would be pretty upset at myself for doing something like this. The mouse didnt calm down. He had his face crushed.

Even tho they are feeders they still deserve your respect; they are keeping your snake alive after all.

Maybe I'm just a big softy.

edit: I just wanted to add that in the past when I have had to feed live I just use a small peice of cardboard from the back of a note pad to seperate any kicking feet / teeth from the snake. Just have to hold it there for 30 seconds or so lol

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Hi Flynn,
I have never worked with live feeders before so I was in a sense of panic when it appeared that my snakes were going to be injured. I think I may have described it a bit more dramatically than it was, but my full intention was to protect my snake. I think that learning ways to stop them from harming my animals without harming them is a good thing and I would love to hear about more ways to do this. As I said, it was my first time and I am imperfect in my knowledge of these matters. I think all animals deserve our respect, but my priority at that moment was protecting the animals that I love so dearly. The rodent was already suppressed by the snake at that time, so it’s likely that if I had done nothing, it would have been consumed without incident. – I think being compassionate is a very good thing.

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Originally Posted by Chocolate Muffin's

I personally don't like a few things about F/T food, but these are kinda my own personal hang ups:

1.) I hate having to thaw the food to feed them. If it is not warm enough they don't take it and I don’t like the smell, the mess and the inability to reuse frozen, un eaten foods.

2.) I also don't like having to keep frozen rodents in my freezer, and resent having to purchase a separate freezer just for rodents.

3.) I don’t like having to try and simulate a live animal’s movement in order to stimulate a feeding response. I feel like I somehow cheating them by going through great lengths to create a natural world for them.

4.) My preference would be to purchase F/K food, but it’s not an option.

5.) It took me a long time to come around to the idea of live food because I didn’t want to ‘kill’ anything. Today I discovered that I don’t have to, the snakes do all of the killing, and my role is to protect them in the process.

6.) I don’t have any blood soaked baggies to toss and I feel like my animals are happier. It went so fast today, If I’d had blinked I would have missed it. Much faster than the whole thaw, heat, dangle routine….

I feel so free now, its hard to explain.

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Its not hard to explain, all your reasons are weak & self centred..how can you say you dont want to kill anything, the snakes do it!..You just feel that you need to intervene crushing heads & feet..if you want to go down the Natural route..leave them be to do what comes naturally, your interference is not required..A few minor scratches or nips will do no harm

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Originally Posted by Bruceweb

Is there a reason to feed live if your snakes take defrost..crushing heads & feet seem cruel & unnecessary..Other than just to satisfy your own personal pleasure..what is the point! what makes it worse you are on here boasting & gloating on your behaviour..pathetic if you ask me..their is a world of difference in feeding live prey naturally..cruelty is a different matter

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I don't believe that I was cruel, and it’s unfortunate that you have interpreted my description as ‘boasting.’ I’m not certain where you came to the understanding that I sought pleasure in harming these rodents and I am concerned that you are upset about something other than the subject at hand. For the record, I did not gain any pleasure out of subduing these rodents and I won’t be made to believe that I should feel guilty for my actions in regards to them - Rest assured, I don’t. I am open to learning better ways to restrain a rodent from harming my animals, but my snakes will always be my first priority. I believe in respect for all animals and life in general, but if another human being posed a threat to my family, I would not feel a bit guilty in my resolve of those matters either. I hope you can reflect on your statements and we can agree to disagree.

Please respect me the same as I am trying to respect you.

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Originally Posted by Bruceweb

Its not hard to explain, all your reasons are weak & self centred..how can you say you dont want to kill anything, the snakes do it!..You just feel that you need to intervene crushing heads & feet..if you want to go down the Natural route..leave them be to do what comes naturally, your interference is not required..A few minor scratches or nips will do no harm

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Bruce,

I do believe that a live rodent has the potential to harm my animals. Please don't tell me there is no risk. These are my choices and I am not required to share the same beliefs as you on this matter.

I am respectfully requesting that you refrain from calling me names. I do not find those comments to be productive or helpful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chocolate Muffin's

Sorry about that, but the welfare of my snakes came first. I din't realize how maternal I was about them until I felt like their safety was in jeopardy. I love them sooo much.

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If you care about their safety so much, why would you put them at risk of a bite in the first place? Doesn't add up.

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Originally Posted by aaramire

Well it seems to me that alot of the problems you had with f/t are because you had crappy quality rats. I NEVER have smelly or messy f/t prey, and I never have bloody anything to throw away. Try getting some decent rats and you may find it makes a huge difference. Also, I am not sure why you had to buy a seperate freezer if you are only feeding two snakes... I feed two retics and a small boa and I keep the rats in one small shelf on my freezer.... no more space is needed. Personally I think feeding live is gross, the rats smell and poo and pee everywhere on the snake, and its a pain to lug them around when I can just go to the freezer and get some rats out and thaw em and be done. Not to mention the price, I don't know where you buy your rats but I have paid upwards of 7 dollars for ONE live rat.... sometimes as much as 10 or 15 dollars. Now, I pay 20 dollars for a bag of 20 small f/t rats.... sounds like a good deal to me... Maybe I am missing something here?

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It’s very possible that the rodents I purchase aren’t the greatest, but I really don’t know since this is how they always present. I have thought about purchasing mice and rats in bulk, but this is where the freezer issue comes into play. I personally don’t want rodents in my freezer becuse that is ‘gross’ to me. I always buy their food the day they are being fed because I don’t want to have to store them. The live animals are priced exactly the same as the frozen where I live. No difference. The frozen rats and mice both had poop and the live ones did too, so I didn’t see any difference there. I recognize the topic of live vs. F/T can be a sensitive one, but I am glad I made the switch, and barring any disaster, I plan on continuing what I believe is best for my animals and my sanity.

It is quite fascinating, seeing the snakes feed on live for the first time. And I agree, I didn't expect them to be so fast!!!

You may not have problems going back to f/t if you decide to. Most of mine will go back and forth with no problems.

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Originally Posted by Aeries

If you care about their safety so much, why would you put them at risk of a bite in the first place? Doesn't add up.

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According to Bruce, there is no risk. I believe there is an inherent risk of the snakes being harmed, and my actions outweighed that risk - I'm comfortable with that.

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Originally Posted by Chocolate Muffin's

Bruce,

I do believe that a live rodent has the potential to harm my animals. Please don't tell me there is no risk. These are my choices and I am not required to share the same beliefs as you on this matter.

I am respectfully requesting that you refrain from calling me names. I do not find those comments to be productive or helpful.

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Ermmmm..I dont recall calling names here..I dont have any issues with live feeding..only with those who do so cruelly & then boast of their actions as you have..you tube is full of people posting videos of cruelty, in the name of feeding their snakes..if you are aware of the potential of harm by live feeding, I see no reason to change from defrost, as stated, most try the opposite..your choice but I dont think its clever to mention the cruelty inflicted towards the prey in the name of protecting your precious snakes..I love my son but if he got into a fight I wouldnt dream of clubbing the other kid over the head to prevent my son from harm..I disagree with your post, my prerogative, thats what forums are for..to express opinions

Well congrats on your first live. I feed all 3 of mine live and they LOVE it. They are so much more interested since I started on the live. Instead of um....:O crushing them....you might want to thump them on the head you will stun them a bit and by the time your snake gets them they will not be able to bite.

I have been feeding live for quite a while now....I use to not thump them...but one bit my snake...did not hurt him or leave a mark. But NO WAY that is going to happen again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruceweb

Ermmmm..I dont recall calling names here..I dont have any issues with live feeding..only with those who do so cruelly & then boast of their actions as you have..you tube is full of people posting videos of cruelty, in the name of feeding their snakes..if you are aware of the potential of harm by live feeding, I see no reason to change from defrost, as stated, most try the opposite..your choice but I dont think its clever to mention the cruelty inflicted towards the prey in the name of protecting your precious snakes..I love my son but if he got into a fight I wouldnt dream of clubbing the other kid over the head to prevent my son from harm..I disagree with your post, my prerogative, thats what forums are for..to express opinions

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By calling my thoughts and beliefs "self centered & weak" and implying that I might enjoy harming animals is name calling to me, and unproductive at the least. I am unclear why you feel that protecting one’s own is cruelty, but if that’s how you feel that’s fine.

I don’t apologize for anything in relation to switching to live or protecting my animals. You state that you don’t have an issue with feeding live, but I might beg to differ. Also, I do believe that snakes can be harmed if live rodents are left unattended with a feeding snake.

I’d like to believe that if someone or something was posing a serious threat to your son, that you would use whatever means to impose upon that threat. I’m not talking about scrapping on the playground. If you chose to stand on principal alone and allowed your son to be seriously harmed, then our opinions are vastly different on matters greater than these.

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

Well congrats on your first live. I feed all 3 of mine live and they LOVE it. They are so much more interested since I started on the live. Instead of um....:O crushing them....you might want to thump them on the head you will stun them a bit and by the time your snake gets them they will not be able to bite.

I have been feeding live for quite a while now....I use to not thump them...but one bit my snake...did not hurt him or leave a mark. But NO WAY that is going to happen again.

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Thanks Michelle, I appreciate your comments and support. I am sorry about your snake, and I understand 100% why you feel this way!

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

Well congrats on your first live. I feed all 3 of mine live and they LOVE it. They are so much more interested since I started on the live. Instead of um....:O crushing them....you might want to thump them on the head you will stun them a bit and by the time your snake gets them they will not be able to bite.

I have been feeding live for quite a while now....I use to not thump them...but one bit my snake...did not hurt him or leave a mark. But NO WAY that is going to happen again.

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I have live fed..all of mine managed very well to kill & eat the prey without assistance..they naturally strike more aggressively..for the record their are far more humane ways to stun prey rather than crushing feet or heads..you can simply flick them behind the head..its posts & video's of cruelty that give the hobby bad press..I wonder what the stance of the local animal humane societys would be on crushing animals heads & feet..not good I would not think!

Wow...I think some ppl need to calm down on here. Geez.

I dont think Coco was "gloating or bragging". I think he had a panic moment since it was his first live feeding. I could probably tell you horror stories about my first live feeding when the mouse bit my snake. That would be accompanied with many foul words that came out of my mouth and an action I am not that proud of.

Bottom line...I will protect my babies!! And there are MANY pictures and MANY stories of rats and mice doing serious harm to snakes and even killing them.

If Coco (sorry that is my new nic name for you) wants to feed live then so be it. I prefer to feed live and honestly....my snakes prefer it. If it costs me more...I really don't care.

And there has been some other threads on here in regards to frozen and some of the dangers that they can pose as well.

Now I am not saying.....OMG...everyone run out and buy live. I am just saying geez give a fellow herper a break and stop getting so uptight!!! :8:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chocolate Muffin's

By calling my thoughts and beliefs "self centered & weak" and implying that I might enjoy harming animals is name calling to me, and unproductive at the least. I am unclear why you feel that protecting one’s own is cruelty, but if that’s how you feel that’s fine.

I don’t apologize for anything in relation to switching to live or protecting my animals. You state that you don’t have an issue with feeding live, but I might beg to differ. Also, I do believe that snakes can be harmed if live rodents are left unattended with a feeding snake.

I’d like to believe that if someone or something was posing a serious threat to your son, that you would use whatever means to impose upon that threat. I’m not talking about scrapping on the playground. If you chose to stand on principal alone and allowed your son to be seriously harmed, then our opinions are vastly different on matters greater than these.

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I think you have a concience ;)

If you're going to harm the animal in the process don't feed live IMO.

There isn't a reason to crush the feet. I've never seen a snake injured from scratching, usually it's from biting. Instead of crushing the feet you could have simply held them with the tongs..

Rats and mice deserve just as much respect as your snake does. If they are not killing the animal properly and risking their life then you should only feed f/t if they eat it. That is your judgment and responsibility.

Maiming any animal in that way is pretty horrific. I'm not sure how you justified that considering your hang-ups on feeding f/t are (have to go with Bruce on this one) personal and selfish.

Your reasoning doesn't add up, and if it were me, I would refuse to maim a creature like that, feeder or not. When I have had to feed live, I have treated my feeders with the respect they deserve as another living creature, no matter their place on the food chain. Sure they're dead either way. But I will not allow them to suffer that way by MY hand. awful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

If you're going to harm the animal in the process don't feed live IMO.

There isn't a reason to crush the feet. I've never seen a snake injured from scratching, usually it's from biting. Instead of crushing the feet you could have simply held them with the tongs..

Rats and mice deserve just as much respect as your snake does. If they are not killing the animal properly and risking their life then you should only feed f/t if they eat it. That is your judgment and responsibility.

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I have come to the conclusion that most injuries received are to snakes that are left in with prey items when not actually in feeding mode, occasionally the prey will become the predator..if a snake is in feeding mode, death comes very quickly, instantly in many cases dependant on the force of the strike, much of the movement from the prey is simply involuntary nerve movement..the key is simply to ensure that the snake is interested in feeding..if a snake strikes at the prey with out killing it it is not recommended to use that prey item again as it will see the snake as a predator & try to defend itself..my only point is feeding live is simply to feed not for pleasure as some seem to enjoy the act as more than it should be

I have always fed live and so has the breeder that I get both my snakes and mice/rats from. I have never had a problem feeding this way and you need to remember that a snakes skin is tougher than you think so the kicking does nothing more than make the snake squeese tighter.

I would just like it if my snake would let the pray hit the floor of their tank before they eat the thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

Wow...I think some ppl need to calm down on here. Geez.

I dont think Coco was "gloating or bragging". I think he had a panic moment since it was his first live feeding. I could probably tell you horror stories about my first live feeding when the mouse bit my snake. That would be accompanied with many foul words that came out of my mouth and an action I am not that proud of.

Bottom line...I will protect my babies!! And there are MANY pictures and MANY stories of rats and mice doing serious harm to snakes and even killing them.

If Coco (sorry that is my new nic name for you) wants to feed live then so be it. I prefer to feed live and honestly....my snakes prefer it. If it costs me more...I really don't care.

And there has been some other threads on here in regards to frozen and some of the dangers that they can pose as well.

Now I am not saying.....OMG...everyone run out and buy live. I am just saying geez give a fellow herper a break and stop getting so uptight!!! :8:

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Amen!!!!!!!! I am in 100% agreement. Live rodents can and will harm snakes if they are unattended.

OP: I think you don't realize what kind of animal you are dealing with here. This is a snake. It is a killing machine. It is not a piece of porcelain.

The only serious rodent related injuries come from people leaving live feeders alone with a snake uninterested in eating. Supervising is one thing, crushing an animal while it is already being suffocated by your snake is another. The snake will do its job, don't mess with it.

I don't care if you feed live or f/t. I don't have a problem with either. I have a problem with irresponsibility. Keep an eye on your snake while feeding live. Don't leave a feeder alone with the snake for a long period of time and everything will be fine.

Please, no more mice crushing, that is just sad. Crushing an animals face is never going to make it "calm down".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

OP: I think you don't realize what kind of animal you are dealing with here. This is a snake. It is a killing machine. It is not a piece of porcelain.

The only serious rodent related injuries come from people leaving live feeders alone with a snake uninterested in eating. Supervising is one thing, crushing an animal while it is already being suffocated by your snake is another. The snake will do its job, don't mess with it.

I don't care if you feed live or f/t. I don't have a problem with either. I have a problem with irresponsibility. Keep an eye on your snake while feeding live. Don't leave a feeder alone with the snake for a long period of time and everything will be fine.

Please, no more mice crushing, that is just sad. Crushing an animals face is never going to make it "calm down".

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Well said! :)

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Originally Posted by ballmom

I have always fed live and so has the breeder that I get both my snakes and mice/rats from. I have never had a problem feeding this way and you need to remember that a snakes skin is tougher than you think so the kicking does nothing more than make the snake squeese tighter.

I would just like it if my snake would let the pray hit the floor of their tank before they eat the thing.

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Now that's an interesting point that I haven't heard and I think Bruce's point is interesting too: I didn't take into account the thickness or durability of the snake's skin. I have always read that rodents could inflict serious injury to a snake with their feet, paws and hands. I have never read or interpreted this in the context of the feeding response as Bruce mentioned. Very interesting. I guess I'm fortunate to have good eaters so far, but down the line, I will keep this in mind.

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Originally Posted by Chocolate Muffin's

Amen!!!!!!!! I am in 100% agreement. Live rodents can and will harm snakes if they are unattended.

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So then attend your animal and don't make excuses for yourself. I can't understand the thought process behind that.

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Originally Posted by qiksilver

Maiming any animal in that way is pretty horrific. I'm not sure how you justified that considering your hang-ups on feeding f/t are (have to go with Bruce on this one) personal and selfish.

Your reasoning doesn't add up, and if it were me, I would refuse to maim a creature like that, feeder or not. When I have had to feed live, I have treated my feeders with the respect they deserve as another living creature, no matter their place on the food chain. Sure they're dead either way. But I will not allow them to suffer that way by MY hand. awful.

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Mike, I think I addressed this earlier, but thank you for your thoughts. The rodents are food, and not living with any injuries that I would have inflicted upon them - if in fact, their suffocation had not already occurred. When you say “maimed” it makes me think of intentionally disfiguring the animal and leaving it to live and suffer….I didn’t do that Mike. It matters very little whether you or Bruce agrees with my reasons for switching, and I know you understand that. I do agree that all life should be respected and although I will continue to feed live, I make look to other ways to prevent these animals from causing harm to my snakes, bottom line.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

If you're going to harm the animal in the process don't feed live IMO.

There isn't a reason to crush the feet. I've never seen a snake injured from scratching, usually it's from biting. Instead of crushing the feet you could have simply held them with the tongs..

Rats and mice deserve just as much respect as your snake does. If they are not killing the animal properly and risking their life then you should only feed f/t if they eat it. That is your judgment and responsibility.

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Yes, it is my judgement and my responsibility and I can live with how I executed them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by qiksilver

So then attend your animal and don't make excuses for yourself. I can't understand the thought process behind that.

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Done! I'm not sure what you don't understand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chocolate Muffin's

Sorry about that, but the welfare of my snakes came first. I din't realize how maternal I was about them until I felt like their safety was in jeopardy. I love them sooo much.

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For what it's worth, I only feed f/t to my kingsnakes. All my ball pythons (50+) are fed live. In over 4000 live feedings, I've never intervened with the prey and my snakes - from hatchlings taking their first meal to adults. Claws on the rat aren't going to harm your snake. I've had probably 5 minor nicks from teeth in over 4000 feedings that you had to really look for.

Both of your kiddos probably would have been just fine without any intervention on your part, especially since you pre-scented and got them primed to feed.

I have no issues with you feeding live, since that's what I do. I just think you were especially nervous and probably participated more than was necessary. :)

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Originally Posted by Chocolate Muffin's

Yes, it is my judgement and my responsibility and I can live with how I executed them.

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you didnt execute them..you tortured the animals while while they were allready under stress..:colbert:

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Originally Posted by Chocolate Muffin's

...if in fact, their suffocation had not already occurred. When you say “maimed” it makes me think of intentionally disfiguring the animal and leaving it to live and suffer

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If the feeder was already suffucated, then why crush feet / faces? Doesnt make sense. They were in the process of being suffocated and were fighting back, so yes, you did in a sense mame them WHILE they were being constricted and alive lol.

Dont get me wrong, I have to feed live to one or two snakes who refuse to switch to f/t. What you feed doesnt matter to me. I just think its important you do not have the delusion that crushing feet / faces is the right thing to do. As people have mentioned throughout this thread, there are better ways.

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Originally Posted by Chocolate Muffin's

Yes, it is my judgement and my responsibility and I can live with how I executed them.

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Something about this sentance reminds me of the diner scene in pulp fiction :D

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

OP: I think you don't realize what kind of animal you are dealing with here. This is a snake. It is a killing machine. It is not a piece of porcelain.

The only serious rodent related injuries come from people leaving live feeders alone with a snake uninterested in eating. Supervising is one thing, crushing an animal while it is already being suffocated by your snake is another. The snake will do its job, don't mess with it.

I don't care if you feed live or f/t. I don't have a problem with either. I have a problem with irresponsibility. Keep an eye on your snake while feeding live. Don't leave a feeder alone with the snake for a long period of time and everything will be fine.

Please, no more mice crushing, that is just sad. Crushing an animals face is never going to make it "calm down".

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x2

I agree with Kaorte, as long as you supervise the feedings there should be no need to die in a inhumane way.

Of course a mouse or rat defense mechanism will always kick in (they are being eaten). To just crush a living animals face and feet is inhumane IMO.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

For what it's worth, I only feed f/t to my kingsnakes. All my ball pythons (50+) are fed live. In over 4000 live feedings, I've never intervened with the prey and my snakes - from hatchlings taking their first meal to adults. Claws on the rat aren't going to harm your snake. I've had probably 5 minor nicks from teeth in over 4000 feedings that you had to really look for.

Both of your kiddos probably would have been just fine without any intervention on your part, especially since you pre-scented and got them primed to feed.

I have no issues with you feeding live, since that's what I do. I just think you were especially nervous and probably participated more than was necessary. :)

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Finally! A good helpful reply!

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Originally Posted by flynn

If the feeder was already suffucated, then why crush feet / faces? Doesnt make sense. They were in the process of being suffocated and were fighting back, so yes, you did in a sense mame them WHILE they were being constricted and alive lol.

Dont get me wrong, I have to feed live to one or two snakes who refuse to switch to f/t. What you feed doesnt matter to me. I just think its important you do not have the delusion that crushing feet / faces is the right thing to do. As people have mentioned throughout this thread, there are better ways.




Something about this sentance reminds me of the diner scene in pulp fiction :D

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There are clearly better ways, I know now, but the better part of me still feels a sense of relief that my snakes were unharmed. I share the opinion that these rodents should be treated with respect, but unfortunately the impassioned response by some members is not going to change my view that my animal’s safety are of paramount importance to me.

Apparently to some members, I am a cruel, violent, MS that maims and tortures the innocently befallen rodents that stray my path…..

Oh well, can't peoples mind about that.