Hr2811 Good News

From: "Torres, Andrew" <Andrew.Torres@mail.house.gov> Save Address | Headers
To : <Blocked for Privacy>X-WatchGuard-IPS: message checked
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Date : Mon, 9 Nov 2009 10:31:54 -0500
Subject : RE: Python Bill

Hi !!!!,



Here is a nice link you can bookmark. This link here is a search engine that searches all the current bills being proposed in the Congress. You can type the word Python or whatever in that search box and it will bring up all bills containing that word. If you do a search for python you will see the 3 bills I’m talking about. When you see an HR in front of the bill number that means it’s a bill in the House of Representatives and an S would stand for a bill in the Senate. So on the importation and shipping into the US of pythons you’ll see 2 bills that are basically the same its just that one is HR and one is S. The third bill that shows up is the one concerning killing the Burmese pythons in the glades.



So anyone that says that there is a federal law being proposed to prohibit the sale or interstate transportation of pythons is just wrong. If I were you I’d ask them to provide something official, not from a blog, that says otherwise. Until then you should feel confident that as of right now there is nothing like that being proposed.



http://thomas.loc.gov/



Hope this helps!

Please Sign

http://www.petitiononline.com/4377qba1/

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Originally Posted by flameethrower

Please Sign

http://www.petitiononline.com/4377qba1/

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Done

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Originally Posted by flameethrower

Please Sign

http://www.petitiononline.com/4377qba1/

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Done also. This needs more public attention on this site. I don't know how to do it but some one needs to make every one aware because HSUS is not your friend. If you own a pet they want to deny you the right to own it. That is their soul purpose on the national level.:taz::taz:

Done also.

signed.:cool:

So why is everybody talking about losing the snakes we already have? If HR2811 is talking strickly about importation of snakes, why is everybody freaking out like we are going to lose the right to own what we have?

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Originally Posted by flameethrower

Please Sign

http://www.petitiononline.com/4377qba1/

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Done:gj:

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

So why is everybody talking about losing the snakes we already have? If HR2811 is talking strickly about importation of snakes, why is everybody freaking out like we are going to lose the right to own what we have?

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Because IF this gets passed then its only a matter of time before they start expanding their hitlist and trying to remove animals from the country all together. Its the whole if you give a mouse a cookie thing.

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

So why is everybody talking about losing the snakes we already have? If HR2811 is talking strickly about importation of snakes, why is everybody freaking out like we are going to lose the right to own what we have?

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The bill is to eliminate the import AND interstate transport of the species that they're concerned with. This would pretty much kill any business that deals with those animals

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Its the whole if you give a mouse a cookie thing.

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I LOVED that book. And that's a good example of what would happen too.

Signed!! And to Twistedtails it's that old saying if you give them an inch they will take a yard!!

The bill is strictly to stop IMPORT not INTERSTATE transporting at all.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

The bill is to eliminate the import AND interstate transport of the species that they're concerned with. This would pretty much kill any business that deals with those animals



I LOVED that book. And that's a good example of what would happen too.

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Can you show proof and not from a forum saying that their stopping all interstate transporting. Like i said its IMPORT only on HR2811

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Originally Posted by MarkS

The bill is to eliminate the import AND interstate transport of the species that they're concerned with. This would pretty much kill any business that deals with those animals



I LOVED that book. And that's a good example of what would happen too.

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You are wrong on that.....Here is a description of the bill and it does not state anything about interstate transport.

H.R.2811
Title: To amend title 18, United States Code, to include constrictor snakes of the species Python genera as an injurious animal.
Sponsor: Rep Meek, Kendrick B. [FL-17] (introduced 6/10/2009) Cosponsors (9)
Related Bills: S.373
Latest Major Action: 11/6/2009 House committee/subcommittee actions. Status: Subcommittee Hearings Held.
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Jump to: Summary, Major Actions, All Actions, Titles, Cosponsors, Committees, Related Bill Details, Amendments
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SUMMARY AS OF:
6/10/2009--Introduced.

Amends the federal criminal code to add the constrictor snake of the species Python genera to the list of injurious species that are prohibited from being shipped or imported into the United States.


Here is the link to that page...
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquer...11search.html|

Here is a what the Senate bill says also....

S.373
Title: A bill to amend title 18, United States Code, to include constrictor snakes of the species Python genera as an injurious animal.
Sponsor: Sen Nelson, Bill [FL] (introduced 2/3/2009) Cosponsors (1)
Related Bills: H.R.2811
Latest Major Action: 2/3/2009 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Environment and Public Works.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jump to: Summary, Major Actions, All Actions, Titles, Cosponsors, Committees, Related Bill Details, Amendments
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUMMARY AS OF:
2/3/2009--Introduced.

Amends the federal criminal code to add the constrictor snake of the species Python genera to the list of injurious species that are prohibited from being shipped or imported into the United States.


Again the link to the page...
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquer...11search.html|

That bill does not mention interstate either. I think a lot of people are getting confused. I was also until I read the bills being proposed.

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Originally Posted by flameethrower

Can you show proof and not from a forum saying that their stopping all interstate transporting. Like i said its IMPORT only on HR2811

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I believe that some of that language was removed from the bill at the last hearing, originally it was included. However there is a push to not only have that language added back, but to increase the number of species affected by it. What you're seeing is the bill in it's current state. What the recent hearing was about was how to amend it in further ways which you won't see on the bill until it's amended and voted on by the committee.

(I think I got that right)

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I believe that some of that language was removed from the bill at the last hearing, originally it was included. However there is a push to not only have that language added back, but to increase the number of species affected by it. What you're seeing is the bill in it's current state. What the recent hearing was about was how to amend it in further ways which you won't see on the bill until it's amended and voted on by the committee.

(I think I got that right)

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If I'm not mistaken, they did not even touch the bill in the last hearing. It was exactly what it was...A hearing. I did watch it and believe that is was continued to hear more arguments.

Additionally, if they ban the import of all pythons, you can say goodbye to getting any new morphs.

Granted, I'd rather see a ban on importation than on owning/interstate transport/etc., but I prefer no bans. I mean, for heaven's sake, most pythons are completely harmless.

When I read the bill at the bottom it did say Import, sales and interstate transportation. It may have changed but sales and interstate transportation was on there.

here is the hr669 bill
http://www.usark.org/uploads/HR669.pdf
and here is the part near the bottom.
(4) LIMITATION ON PROCEDURES.—The proce6
dures under section 4(c)(1)(A)(ii), subsection (b)(2)
7 of this section, and section 553 of title 5, United
8 States Code, shall not apply to determinations under
9 this subsection.
10 SEC. 6. PROHIBITIONS AND PENALTIES.
11 (a) PROHIBITIONS.—Except as provided in this sec12
tion or in section 7, it is unlawful for any person subject
13 to the jurisdiction of the United States to—
14 (1) import into or export from the United
15 States any nonnative wildlife species that is not in16
cluded in the list of approved species issued under
17 section 4;
18 (2) transport between any State by any means
19 whatsoever any nonnative wildlife species that is not
20 included in the list of approved species issued under
21 section 4;
22 (3) violate any term or condition of a permit
23 issued under section 7;
24 (4) possess (except as provided in section 3(f)),
25 sell or offer to sell, purchase or offer to purchase,
VerDate Nov 24 2008 06:12 Jan 27, 2009 Jkt 079200 PO 00000 Frm 00014 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H669.IH H669 jbell on PROD1PC69 with BILLS
15
•HR 669 IH
1 or barter for or offer to barter for, any nonnative
2 wildlife species that is prohibited from being im3
ported under paragraph (1);
4 (5) release into the wild any nonnative wildlife
5 species that is prohibited from being imported under
6 paragraph (1); or
7 (6) breed any nonnative wildlife species that is
8 prohibited from being imported under paragraph
9 (1), or provide any such species to another person
10 for breeding purposes.
11 (b) PENALTIES AND ENFORCEMENT.—Any person
12 who violates subsection (a) shall be subject to the civil pen13
alties and criminal penalties described in section 4 of the
14 Lacey Act Amendments of 1981 (16 U.S.C. 3373). Sec15
tions 4(b), 4(e), 5, and 6 of that Act shall apply to such
16 a violation in the same manner as they apply to a violation
17 of that Act.
18 (

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Originally Posted by jason79

When I read the bill at the bottom it did say Import, sales and interstate transportation. It may have changed but sales and interstate transportation was on there.

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Right, and there was talk about them amending the bill to include JUST the import. So, it looks like they amended the bill like they said they were going to.

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Originally Posted by jason79

When I read the bill at the bottom it did say Import, sales and interstate transportation. It may have changed but sales and interstate transportation was on there.

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Yes, and that is what USARK's website says too. I would be careful. This bill says a lot more than what is stated in the summary. My favorite processor, Dr. Elliott Jacobson, was concerned about all the grey areas. Hopefully, this is a sign they are cleaning this up.

We need to keep our eyes open. It is just as easy to slip things in, as it is to pop them out.

When I read the bill at the bottom it did say Import, sales and interstate transportation. It may have changed but sales and interstate transportation was on there.

I think HR669 is dead in the water, isn't it?

Why don't you go straight to USARK to get the most UP TO THE DATE information on this bill? They aren't just some "internet blog". Rather than trying to play this bill down? It IS a big deal and it DOES have to do with Interstate commerce as well.

http://usark.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Why don't you go straight to USARK to get the most UP TO THE DATE information on this bill? They aren't just some "internet blog". Rather than trying to play this bill down? It IS a big deal and it DOES have to do with Interstate commerce as well.

http://usark.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118

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Noone is trying to down play this bill. I'm in full supprot of this bill not passing regardless of it's contents. So the Library of Congress is not listing all aspects of the bill? It clearly states on thier site that this bill only includes import.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Why don't you go straight to USARK to get the most UP TO THE DATE information on this bill? They aren't just some "internet blog". Rather than trying to play this bill down? It IS a big deal and it DOES have to do with Interstate commerce as well.

http://usark.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118

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Did you watch the videos?

Robin is absolutely right people. So is Mark and whoever else has stated something about it having said interstate transport etc..

I KNOW it said that because i did read the entire thing months ago when this first came about.

To sit here and argue about it not being there now and trying to say we shouldnt be so worried about it... Come on people. Thats the problem AND the point!

That is exactly what they are attempting to do! It has already been said here, how the HSUS is just going to wait until they see we have all calmed down and dropped our defences.

Last year they tried to ban almost ALL pets. Small pets, birds, fish etc..

Have you even seen the original list compiled of supposed "aggressive" dogs??
Which were going to considered for ban? That list included everything from poodles to pit bulls and terriers to cattle dogs! Rediculas!

Those of you saying its not about interstate transport and trade need to go back and read the original bill. You also need to look up all the crazy things these people have tried to pass in just last 2 years. They will never stop trying. Therfore you can never stop believing it WILL happen if you do not fight it. It doesnt matter what its about, dont give them that inch.

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Originally Posted by n3m0_

Because IF this gets passed then its only a matter of time before they start expanding their hitlist and trying to remove animals from the country all together. Its the whole if you give a mouse a cookie thing.

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I doubt this would ever happen. What do you suppose they would have us all do with our snakes? Think about it... If suddenly it was against the law to own your snakes tomorrow what would you do with them?

Ok, guys--this is simple.

The bill seeks to add these snakes to the LIST OF INJURIOUS WILDLIFE. THAT is what you need to pay attention to. The Lacey Act.
Injurious wildlife cannot be transported across state lines. So it doesn't matter whether this bill mentions interstate transport specifically or not.

Don't let them hoodwink you. Injurious wildlife is barred from interstate transport.

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Originally Posted by Jenn

I doubt this would ever happen. What do you suppose they would have us all do with our snakes? Think about it... If suddenly it was against the law to own your snakes tomorrow what would you do with them?

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Do you really think "they" care about that??

Do you have any idea how good it would make some people feel to be able to take away all your pets and have them killed? Some people always seem to think "it would never happen to me" because it sounds so far fetched...

This country is already adopting many policies that would be considered fascist, communist or socialist by many people or even other countries.

The moment you stop thinking its possible is the moment you will lose something you care about. It happens to thousands of americans every single day. New rules. New restrictions. Im not saying to form a militia but stop being so nieve.

There are so many people out there who do not even care to consider the economic impact of the pet trade let along the emotional impact. Just like some of you refuse to think its as serious as it can definately be.

No difference at all. Some of you are acting just like they are.

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Originally Posted by Draigess

Robin is absolutely right people. So is Mark and whoever else has stated something about it having said interstate transport etc..

I KNOW it said that because i did read the entire thing months ago when this first came about.

To sit here and argue about it not being there now and trying to say we shouldnt be so worried about it... Come on people. Thats the problem AND the point!

That is exactly what they are attempting to do! It has already been said here, how the HSUS is just going to wait until they see we have all calmed down and dropped our defences.

Last year they tried to ban almost ALL pets. Small pets, birds, fish etc..

Have you even seen the original list compiled of supposed "aggressive" dogs??
Which were going to considered for ban? That list included everything from poodles to pit bulls and terriers to cattle dogs! Rediculas!

Those of you saying its not about interstate transport and trade need to go back and read the original bill. You also need to look up all the crazy things these people have tried to pass in just last 2 years. They will never stop trying. Therfore you can never stop believing it WILL happen if you do not fight it. It doesnt matter what its about, dont give them that inch.

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Bills get proposed and amended...Right? If the bills that are being listed right now don't include interstate, is it a possibility that they were amended? For the record, I don't feel that any of these bills need to be taken lightly. If others are taking it lightly that is thier opinion, but, not mine. What I get personally from the "update" section of USARK on this matter is that there is nothing in the bill that says what happens to animals that are already in captivity. Therefor, before passing legislation on the IMPORT of animals, there needs to be a plan on what happens to animals that are already here. I think what he is pushing for is some kind of amendment that clearly states this bill will not affect the captive breeding programs and companies in business right now.

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

Bills get proposed and amended...Right? If the bills that are being listed right now don't include interstate, is it a possibility that they were amended? For the record, I don't feel that any of these bills need to be taken lightly. If others are taking it lightly that is thier opinion, but, not mine. What I get personally from the "update" section of USARK on this matter is that there is nothing in the bill that says what happens to animals that are already in captivity. Therefor, before passing legislation on the IMPORT of animals, there needs to be a plan on what happens to animals that are already here. I think what he is pushing for is some kind of amendment that clearly states this bill will not affect the captive breeding programs and companies in business right now.

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But see, I dont think anyone has even thought about that. Really no one except those of us who own these animals, knows just how many there are in captivity in the US.

That is part of what USARK is trying to prove. The sheer numbers and the huge impact it will have on the economy. If you never take your kid to the pet store, or reptile shows, if you never look at these forums and classified sites, you would never have any idea that it is as popular as it is.

Most people not involved with the sale or breeding of reptiles have absolutely no idea that reptiles are shipped through UPS and FedEx.

Even people involved in them or those working at petstores still have no idea just how big it is.

They dont think its a big deal at all. WE understand that these things should all be considered and talked about but they do not. They still think reptiles only belong to a very few people. The extreme minority. Becaue reptile owners do not fight like dog owners when it comes to laws. Thats why we need to keep telling people. Getting people involved. They need to see all of us coming out of the woodwork. If all reptile owners actually stood up and let theirselves be known it would be HUGE.

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Originally Posted by Draigess

But see, I dont think anyone has even thought about that. Really no one except those of us who own these animals, knows just how many there are in captivity in the US.

That is part of what USARK is trying to prove. The sheer numbers and the huge impact it will have on the economy. If you never take your kid to the pet store, or reptile shows, if you never look at these forums and classified sites, you would never have any idea that it is as popular as it is.

Most people not involved with the sale or breeding of reptiles have absolutely no idea that reptiles are shipped through UPS and FedEx.

Even people involved in them or those working at petstores still have no idea just how big it is.

They dont think its a big deal at all. WE understand that these things should all be considered and talked about but they do not. They still think reptiles only belong to a very few people. The extreme minority. Becaue reptile owners do not fight like dog owners when it comes to laws. Thats why we need to keep telling people. Getting people involved. They need to see all of us coming out of the woodwork. If all reptile owners actually stood up and let theirselves be known it would be HUGE.

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I agree whole heartedly. I have talked with friends and family members who listen to the news and it is sad to see how they are influenced by what the the media says. They all believe that these animals are monsters and are going to start a world dominance campaign.

I've said it once and I'll say it again.
Online petitions are a lazy way out to think that you did something when in reality they do absolutely nothing.

If we want to make an impact on this bill, we need to do what we did with HR669 and make a huge letter writing campaign. E-mails and online petitions do not go through to much.

the original code already says no shipping between states they just want to add pythons to the list.

hr 2811 Section 42(a)(1) of title 18, United States Code, is amended in the first sentence by inserting `; of the constrictor snake of the species Python genera' after `polymorpha'

Section 42(a)(1) of title 18
a)
(1) The importation into the United States, any territory of the United States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any possession of the United States, or any shipment between the continental United States,

so yes if they add it to the list were screwed

Ive tried talking to people too. I work in a place where I see different people everyday. Ive heard people from other states tell me how snakes in Fla are taking over & killing poeple! They get this from the vague info on the news. They put their own story together & there it is. Everytime they tell it that way it gets passed on even more WRONG & before you know it we have snakes killing hundreds of people every year..

I have almost 100 herpers on my myspace friends list but of the bulletins i have posted on the HSUS & USARK & these updates on the bills, less than 6 of those poeple actually repost them again for their friends to see.

That is very sad.

Signed. #2900 ftw!

to the OP and the "supporters" of better read the lacey act if this passes at all in the language its written its a 100% ban period! no transport! no interstate or intrastate! no nothing!

as for a petition your just wasting your time. contact the list and your reps

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Originally Posted by nixer

to the OP and the "supporters" of better read the lacey act if this passes at all in the language its written its a 100% ban period! no transport! no interstate or intrastate! no nothing!

as for a petition your just wasting your time. contact the list and your reps

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Right on Nixer :gj:

The only way to make an impact is if people keep calling, faxing and writing letters to ALL the numbers on the call list!

And not only when its going before a commitee. Those who havent done it yet need to. Those who have need to keep trying. If you didnt fax every number then get the ones you didnt get to.

I had a couple friends who like reptiles but didnt have the time to call or fax on such short notice so I got permission to do it for them. Whatever it takes.

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Originally Posted by Draigess

Right on Nixer :gj:

The only way to make an impact is if people keep calling, faxing and writing letters to ALL the numbers on the call list!

And not only when its going before a commitee. Those who havent done it yet need to. Those who have need to keep trying. If you didnt fax every number then get the ones you didnt get to.

I had a couple friends who like reptiles but didnt have the time to call or fax on such short notice so I got permission to do it for them. Whatever it takes.

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i dont care if you have to call them to the point they know who you are! keep doing it!

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Originally Posted by flameethrower

Please Sign

http://www.petitiononline.com/4377qba1/

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done

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Originally Posted by illini4x4

done

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that petition has been around for quite some time. i dont think they are going to buy that now if you have a few hundred ppl calling the atty general office and the irs im sure someone will eventually do something

2913 sofar

Also, for those who don't think bills like this could ever pass, think about this: HR2811 did not get shot down at the first meeting. That alone should scare the crap out of you. I know it did me.

done this should be posted on every reptile forum out there someone need's to boast this link to all reptile nation.

lance

Signed the petition yesterday!!

Kyle

Done!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Ok, guys--this is simple.

The bill seeks to add these snakes to the LIST OF INJURIOUS WILDLIFE. THAT is what you need to pay attention to. The Lacey Act.
Injurious wildlife cannot be transported across state lines. So it doesn't matter whether this bill mentions interstate transport specifically or not.

Don't let them hoodwink you. Injurious wildlife is barred from interstate transport.

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Here is a link to substantiate this. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...000-notes.html “(A) Injurious animal.—The term ‘injurious animal’ means an animal the importation or interstate shipment of which is prohibited by section 42 of title 18, United States Code.

Am I missing something?

The petition your link takes me to is one to end the tax-exempt status of the Humane Society.