At a loss

I'm not sure what to do at this point. I bought a 09 albino ball about a month ago. He looked healthy and I was told that he was eating hopper mice. I let him settle in for a week and then tried to feed him. He ate and all was good. 4 days later he regurgitated it up. I gave him 10 days all by himself. Took a peek at him on day 10 to see how he was doing. It looked like he was in shed. So I gave him a few more days. He went though the blue and clear stage. All was well till... he didn't shed. I gave him another week and still no shed. I soaked him for a half hour, no shed. I did this again on Friday night. No skin was coming off, but it's clearly there. I did this again Sat and Sun night. I tried rubbing it off and letting him go though a towel. Nope, no skin, but he now looks horrible. Seems like he has lost weight, his belly is a dark color, his skin is rough and totally wrinkly and flaking in pieces, but not coming off. He looks like he may be on deaths door but I'm not sure where this all came from and why he can't seem to shed. I'd hate to loose him because he is beautiful but I'm at a loss what to do or how to help him at this point. I tried feeding him this past Thursday and he refused.

EDIT:

Temps, humidity, tub, and all are spot on. I've never seen this or have had it happen before.

Veterinarian.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Veterinarian.

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x2

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Veterinarian.

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x3

Sorry to hear Allison.

I've found with the Bloods that seem to be taking a while to shed it's usually a humidity issue.

They'll sit and sit and wait seemingly for no reason, despite the humidity being well above acceptable shedding levels. Sometimes they just want it WET.

What has ALWAYS worked for me, is to just SOAK the cage/tub down HARDCORE. Literally 110% humidity.

Leave overnight, and I've usually got a shed the next day.

Give that a shot, I hope everything is all right and he pulls through.

This has worked when regular soaks in attempt to trigger a shed have failed, like in your case.

x3........

Hi,

I gotta say vet too. :(

The fact there was enough of a hopper mouse left to make a recognisable regurge 4 days later would make me worry there was something far amiss with his digestion.

Coupled with the black looking belly that would make me want to have him looked at to the point I would ignore the skin issue or just put it down to stress from whatever else is going on. :weirdface

Has he been drinking and have you seen any sign of poop or pee?

I would contact the person you bought him from as well, partially to keep them in the loop, but also to find out if they have seen this before and double check they hadn't been treating for mites or any other possible causes so you can pass the info on to the vet.

I hope he is ok for you. :please:


dr del

Have you tried assist shedding?

Normally, when one of my snakes does not shed, I soak them for maybe 5 minutes or so, then I try to start near the head/neck area and start to stroke a little bit of the area with my finger until the molting skin pops off the scales. Eventually, the molting skin breaks, and I start to help the snake pull off the shed.

With the last assist shed I did (maybe back in the Summer) I started right from the nose, got the molting skin to break, and started to peel off the skin from the head all the way down to the tip of the tail. It worked out pretty well actually, and I had no problems. But, if you feel you may rip off some scales or injure the snake, don't try this. It's best to listen to the other answers and take a vet visit, your snake seems to be very ill, and I know for a fact an albino Ball python's belly does not turn black whether it's in shed or not.

Good points Derek.

Get him to a vet ASAP. I'm with the others, regurgitation, especially after 4 days, is a sign of trouble.

I'd say it was probably a preexisting problem. So, like others have mentioned, I'd stay in contact with the breeder.
In my experience, I've found ball pythons to be pretty hardy animals when given the proper conditions to thrive.
Also, quarintine and see the vet.

When I get one with a really dehydrated shed, I fill their tub up half an inch with warm water, stick a paper towel in with them and push it back into the rack. I might even take up a whole shelf if it's a 6qt tub and put the whole tub on the flexwatt. Helps get everything heated up and humidifies the tub. Kind of like a rain chamber. The snakes seem to like it and all the shed is off in the morning. Sometimes I leave them a full 24 hours just to get rehydrated.

Thanks all!

He has poo'd and gave me urates since I got him. So I think all is working well with that. I'm going to call my vet tomorrow and see if he will take a look at him.

I'd soak him overnight.

Allison, do you have any pics?

He's been soaking for the past hour and I now am going to leave him soaking over night over a piece of flexwatt, with a paper towel in there with him.

I tried to get pictures of his belly, but easier said then done. He kept moving. I will get some better ones in the morning.

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Originally Posted by Jason Bowden

I'd say it was probably a preexisting problem. So, like others have mentioned, I'd stay in contact with the breeder.
In my experience, I've found ball pythons to be pretty hardy animals when given the proper conditions to thrive.
Also, quarintine and see the vet.

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Not necessarily. If everyone hasn't noticed, BG usually comes to the defense of the breeder. Why is that? Because a million years of experience has told him that people NEVER EVER take responsibility when they do something wrong that causes a problem with their snake. It's ALWAYS the breeder/sellers fault.

Now...having said all that. In this case it may well be his/her fault, but it is your fault that you have waited so long to do something about it in all honesty Lilly....and now it may be too late. (sorry...BG tells it like it is) BG is gonna help yah now.

BG will now skip the 3rd person because this is serious.

Don't do anymore soaking. You need to get this snake to a QUALIFIED(HUGE emphasis on QUALIFIED) Vet asap....like now. When a snake regurgitates it's meal, it can be something simple....like the temps were not right...but it may be something else. I will usually treat a snake that does this with Flagyl, then wait a week or so and feed it a small meal. Sometimes you really need to "baby" them back with small meals for a while. It's much worse when a boa does this, but it can be just as lethal when a Ball does it.

You really need to get this snake to a VET NOW. Your snake may have already gone septic and it may be too late. Good luck to you, but don't do anything else but get your snake to a VET.....NOW!!!!!!!!

Just in case people are wondering why BG is so sure people never take responsibility. It's because BG has seen many friends blame the breeder when they themselves have done something wrong. He has also gotten the truth out of many people that have denied any wrong doing in the past. To be honest, more often than not in BG's opinion it is the fault of the buyer, not the seller.

Unfortunately when a breeder sells a snake he can't go home with it to make sure it gets proper care. People ALWAYS...let BG say that again...ALWAYS say they are doing everything 100% right. Usually when there is a problem....they are not.

Please don't think BG is blaming you Lilly. He definitely is not. Big Gunns just hates when thread start like this and the breeder starts getting blamed for selling crap and all the facts can't be proven.

BG really does want to help you and he hopes you listen to him.

ps. BG didn't sell her the snake.;)

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Just in case people are wondering why BG is so sure people never take responsibility. It's because BG has seen many friends blame the breeder when they themselves have done something wrong. He has also gotten the truth out of many people that have denied any wrong doing in the past. To be honest, more often than not in BG's opinion it is the fault of the buyer, not the seller.

Unfortunately when a breeder sells a snake he can't go home with it to make sure it gets proper care. People ALWAYS...let BG say that again...ALWAYS say they are doing everything 100% right. Usually when there is a problem....they are not.

Please don't think BG is blaming you Lilly. He definitely is not. Big Gunns just hates when thread start like this and the breeder starts getting blamed for selling crap and all the facts can't be proven.

BG really does want to help you and he hopes you listen to him.

ps. BG didn't sell her the snake.;)

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I agree! My friend is a breeder with great quality snakes and I got mine from him with no issues ever but some peole do come back and say you sold my crap. It is clear that the snake was not taken care of but they never admit to their wrong doing! Not saying this is the case here! Hope all goes well with the snake in question!

First wow I just thanked BG never thought I would do that, and thank you BG for coming out of third person to give that excelent explination of what to do. You do know your stuff no matter what anyone else says.

Now to the OP do exactly what BG said. I know in my experience selling and buying snakes 80% of the time it is the buyers fault 100% for most situations. For this I do think there might be some fault with the breeder but not all of it. The animals should have been taken to the vet the day it regurged it's food. Any snake I have no matter how long I have had it ,1 day in my care to my oldest being 13 years old, any of them regurge they go straight to the vet no questions asked.

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Originally Posted by tattlife2001

First wow I just thanked BG never thought I would do that, and thank you BG for coming out of third person to give that excelent explination of what to do. You do know your stuff no matter what anyone else says.

Now to the OP do exactly what BG said. I know in my experience selling and buying snakes 80% of the time it is the buyers fault 100% for most situations. For this I do think there might be some fault with the breeder but not all of it. The animals should have been taken to the vet the day it regurged it's food. Any snake I have no matter how long I have had it ,1 day in my care to my oldest being 13 years old, any of them regurge they go straight to the vet no questions asked.

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Here is a perfect example of what Bis Gunns was talking about.
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...d.php?t=106230

Now BG is gonna go help Steveboos out with his problem...which may become bigger than he thinks.

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

Thanks all!

He has poo'd and gave me urates since I got him. So I think all is working well with that. I'm going to call my vet tomorrow and see if he will take a look at him.

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Lilly, BG just noticed where you live. You might wanna try and take your snake to Dr. Gold. BG is almost positive that Pete Kahl uses him. If BG's memory serves him right, this is the same doc that Pete took the Candyball. He wanted to draw blood from the Candymans heart to check him out:O, but it scared Pete to death so he did something else instead.:D

It's kinda late, so calling Pete is not an option right now, but Dr. Gold is on the bp.net Vet list. Good luck and don't delay.

ps. It's not a bad idea for anyone that's looking for a good Vet to call the largest breeder in your area. A breeder is only going to use a good Vet, since to them it's not just a hobby, it's their livelihood.

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

ps. It's not a bad idea for anyone that's looking for a good Vet to call the largest breeder in your area. A breeder is only going to use a good Vet, since to them it's not just a hobby, it's their livelihood.

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That is what I did...makes perfect sense. They are tried and true if your breeder uses them!!

Tomorrow at 11:30 I have an appoitment with Dr. Gold with the little guy.

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

Tomorrow at 11:30 I have an appoitment with Dr. Gold with the little guy.

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Best of luck to you and the little guy

Sorry to hear about him :( And good luck tomorrow, I hope all goes well!!!

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

Tomorrow at 11:30 I have an appoitment with Dr. Gold with the little guy.

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Good luck with him

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

Tomorrow at 11:30 I have an appoitment with Dr. Gold with the little guy.

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Good luck to you. It's hard to tell from BG's computer just how bad your snake is, but whenever they regurgitate a meal it can get really bad. Your snake may just need it's skin shed and be perfectly fine, it's always better to be safe though. Dr. Gold should be able to help you.

Make sure you are completely honest with the Doc about EVERYTHING. Some people are not.

BG will say this though. One day can make a HUGE difference. BG knows you don't wanna pay emergency visit costs, but you might wanna call and see if there is any way you can come today without added costs....even if it means you need to wait.

Big Gunns needs an update.

I agree with BG....an update is definitely needed!

Sadly this little guy passed away sometime between yesterday and this morning. I just found his little lifeless body. A crying shame! Dr. Gold tried. We got the skin off of him. Flagy didn't work nor did this little guy have any kind of eating instinct anymore. We force fed him a pinky in hope he'd eat on his own. No, that too didn't work. I tried to force feed him another pinky the other night and he had no swallowing motion at all. He wasn't drinking to keep hydrated. His belly had turned a dark color again. I guess something more was going on in the inside of him that wasn't apparent on the outside. Very sad. He was very unique looking and beautiful. May he rest in peace. :(

Sorry for the loss. By the sounds of it you did everything you could have.

Aww, :(

Sorry to hear that.


dr del

Sorry for your loss :(

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

Sadly this little guy passed away sometime between yesterday and this morning. I just found his little lifeless body. A crying shame! Dr. Gold tried. We got the skin off of him. Flagy didn't work nor did this little guy have any kind of eating instinct anymore. We force fed him a pinky in hope he'd eat on his own. No, that too didn't work. I tried to force feed him another pinky the other night and he had no swallowing motion at all. He wasn't drinking to keep hydrated. His belly had turned a dark color again. I guess something more was going on in the inside of him that wasn't apparent on the outside. Very sad. He was very unique looking and beautiful. May he rest in peace. :(

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Everyone needs to learn from your loss. Big Gunns has tried to emphasize it many times. When your snake regurgitates a meal....IT CAN BE FATAL!!!!! You really need to be "on top of it" and "baby" your snake back to health. If there is a second gurge, you'll definitely need a Vet visit.

Since Lilly had just bought this snake and it gurged it's first meal, it may have had problems to begin with....there is a good chance this was not it's first gurge. If you buy a snake and it regurgitates it's first meal, be in contact with the buyer right away(although in BG's experience, it's usually the buyers husbandry that causes it and not a sick snake from the seller). If all your temps are right on, and you didn't handle it too much, you'll need a Vet visit IMMEDIATELY. The seller is never gonna tell you it gurged before, so you need to assume it did.

Flagyl has always worked great for Big Gunns(he just saved a snake with it), but sometimes a snake can be too far gone. Make sure everyone heeds Big Gunns words. The consequences of not doing so are always bad.:D


Really sorry to hear this Lilly. Since Big Gunns knows Dr. Gold knows his stuff, BG is sure he did all he could. Although BG is a leeetle concerned with you force feeding it, this usually turns out bad on a really weak snake. Big Gunns will sometimes shoot some egg down the throat of a weak snake since it's a lot easier to digest. Trying to digest even a pinkie, can sometimes be too much. Liquid egg(egg scrambled in a dish) is a great source of protein and easy to digest.:gj:

Thanks BG. Sadly I too think he was sick way before I bought him and it was just going down hill after it. I've been around a lot of baby BP's and never saw one have these issues or go down hill that fast. Sadly the seller hasn't gotten back to me since I let him know about this snakes problems. Not surprised. I should have known better and bought from a more reliable source.

Wow I am so sorry that you lost your little guy!!

Allison ,
I know what you mean , I too have a sick albino ball that I just bought the 23rd and turns out to have an RI and mouth rot... Would have been better for myself to have gone to a reliable source as well. My only upside is she no doubt would have died with the seller , at least with me she has a chance of making it.

You gave the little guy a fighting chance. I am sorry though that he didn't make it. :(

Good luck with the seller...

Did you necropsy Allison?

Did the vet have ANY idea what it was?

Im so sorry

Dr. Gold said he looked like a newly hatched baby who hadn't shed yet. I told him he hatched back in July so he was surprised and said he was severly under weight from hatching in July and it appered that he had never eaten before. I said that he had poo'd the day I got him but other then that he never went again. I told him how he regured and he went on to say that could alone kill a baby snake, I knew this but I was not expecting it since all but 2 snakes I've ever had have been babies when I bought them. He said that Flagyl would be the best for him but it may be to late. I kind of knew it last week, he just seemed like he gave up on everything. Also he wasn't drinking on his own which was another major problem. Sadly I think he hatched out with some issues and was one of those who wasn't made to make it. He was so neat looking. At this time I don't plan on having a necropsy done.

That's terrible, I hate to see breeders who will sell animals that aren't feeding, and then claim they're healthy. I see skinny baby balls at shows sometimes, and it's obvious the animal hasn't eaten in many weeks...yet they're selling it along with healthy animals!

Very sorry for your loss. Have you been in contact with the seller about some sort of refund? You should not have to take that loss if you were sold a sick snake. :confused:

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

Dr. Gold said he looked like a newly hatched baby who hadn't shed yet. I told him he hatched back in July so he was surprised and said he was severly under weight from hatching in July and it appered that he had never eaten before. I said that he had poo'd the day I got him but other then that he never went again. I told him how he regured and he went on to say that could alone kill a baby snake, I knew this but I was not expecting it since all but 2 snakes I've ever had have been babies when I bought them. He said that Flagyl would be the best for him but it may be to late. I kind of knew it last week, he just seemed like he gave up on everything. Also he wasn't drinking on his own which was another major problem. Sadly I think he hatched out with some issues and was one of those who wasn't made to make it. He was so neat looking. At this time I don't plan on having a necropsy done.

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This is some new information that BG didn't know. The fact that you said your snake "poo'd" when you got him tells Big Gunns that he had in fact ate and digested a meal. BG doesn't want to come down on you, but in fairness...he must. This new revelation tells BG that this leeetle guy may have been saved if a Vet visit was much earlier. He must have been eating(might have been assisted though)....and he could digest a meal since he "poo'd".:D

Don't be mad at BG Lilly, but this needs to be pointed out so that other people can learn. Looking at the two posts after yours is one of the reasons why. Big Gunns realizes you know how to take care of snakes from what you've stated before, but in this case it appears something went wrong. Big Gunns is not gonna be a hypocrite here, he has realized how serious regurgitation is the hard way himself. It is much more serious in baby boas.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

That's terrible, I hate to see breeders who will sell animals that aren't feeding, and then claim they're healthy. I see skinny baby balls at shows sometimes, and it's obvious the animal hasn't eaten in many weeks...yet they're selling it along with healthy animals!

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Originally Posted by illini4x4

Very sorry for your loss. Have you been in contact with the seller about some sort of refund? You should not have to take that loss if you were sold a sick snake. :confused:

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These are the kinda posts that always get BG mad. We have one side of the story here(Lilly's) and when BG looks at all the facts, he's not so sure the breeder is completely at fault.(it wasn't BG or a friend).

Although BG feels sorry for Lilly, looking at all the facts of this case, it's hard for BG to blame only the breeder. BG does not want to seem like a jerk here(he usually loves it), but this really needs to be said so everyone can benefit from it. BG and Lilly have learned the hard way, the rest of you don't need to.

Regurgitation in baby snakes can be SERIOUS!!!!!! You must not "take it lightly". It is much worse in baby boas, but can be just as lethal in Balls.

ps. Why does BG always edit his posts one minute after he posts them? Answer....because he tries to hurry up and post them before he gets "signed out"...then after he does and goes back and reads them...he always finds some mistake. LOL

Big Gunns is gonna give a leeetle life lesson people. Pay attention...this is very important stuff(like everything BG says).

We all have friends that come to us with problems. When a friend does, try and be "objective". Most people(99% of them) will just agree with whatever someone is telling them. Say for instance a friend comes to you with a problem with their bf/gf. Most friends will just agree with whatever their friend says, instead of looking at both sides and seeing exactly who's fault it really was. Some of this BG is sure is outta ..."I'm too lazy and don't really care", but for the rest that do actually care about their friend....are you really helping them by just agreeing with them?


Big Gunns point is this. If you really want to solve a problem, don't be afraid to take the other side. The "not so popular one". There is a reason BG's friends call him and ask him his expert advice. These smart friends know he's not gonna "blow smoke you know where". They know BG is gonna tell them exactly what he thinks, even if it's not what they wanna hear. This is what is really gonna help your friend.

The next time your friend...or anyone...comes to you and is complaining about someone....play "devils advocate" and look at the other side. Get all the facts. Don't just nod your head in agreement. This helps nobody. Your friend might get mad at first, but when they calm down, they should realize you're really just trying to help. Don't be a wuss. If they're an idiot...tell them so.

ps. BG's problem is he plays "devils advocate" a leeetle too much sometimes, but someone needs to.:D