Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

Is there a mix of spider and mojave? Ive seen like one post on here about it but ive never seen any pictures - anywhere.

Also im still confused on how to do some punnet squares... :(
Say you have a pastel x normal.

Pastel is like P p and normal is n n (im not sure if the visual trait is capital or not but thats beside the point) Would a super pastel then be P P??? Or why do I hear stuff like a bumblebee still carries a normal gene?? I cant understandddddddddd. it would have S and P... or is it supposed to be a 4x2 square??? like P p S s for the bee, and n n for a normal...

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

http://www.vmsherp.com/ImagePages/Ba...ave-Spider.htm

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

All the way at the bottom of this it discusses double co-dom traits. It's a little confusing the way the do it though.

http://www.arbreptiles.com/genetics101.shtml

It may help to think of it as breeding a Normal Double Het Super Pastel/Super Spider to a Normal for Punnet Square purposes. You would need a 4x4 square.

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

Forget the caps for gene and the lower case for wild/normal gene.

Just use the letter directly.

P for pastel and N for normal

Normal genome : nn
Pastel genome should be : Pn
Spider genome : Sn
Mojave genome : Mn
Cinnamon/Black pastel genome : Cn
Albino genome : AA

When you add another gene, you just double the normal gene
bumblebee : PnSn
Super Pastel : PP
Killerbee : PPSn
het Albino Bumblebee : AnPnSn
Albino Bumblebee : AAPnSn

Let's say you breed a Bumblebee to an Albino
Like I previously said, the bumblebee is PnSn and the Albino is AA
You can't do PnSn x AA cause the gene are not on the same "loci" they are different gene.
So you need to add "nn" for the gene the snake have the other don't have.

So the genome for the become
bumblebee : PnSnnn
Albino : nnnnAA

As you can see, I used the first 2 letters for the Pastel gene, the second 2 letter for the spider gene and the third for the Albino

So now you can do your punnet square, I like to use that online website
http://www.changbioscience.com/genetics/punnett.html

So just past these 2, and you will have this

Code:

Punnett Square PnSnnn x nnnnAA PSn PSn Pnn Pnn nSn nSn nnn nnn nnA PnSnAn PnSnAn PnnnAn PnnnAn nnSnAn nnSnAn nnnnAn nnnnAn nnA PnSnAn PnSnAn PnnnAn PnnnAn nnSnAn nnSnAn nnnnAn nnnnAn nnA PnSnAn PnSnAn PnnnAn PnnnAn nnSnAn nnSnAn nnnnAn nnnnAn nnA PnSnAn PnSnAn PnnnAn PnnnAn nnSnAn nnSnAn nnnnAn nnnnAn nnA PnSnAn PnSnAn PnnnAn PnnnAn nnSnAn nnSnAn nnnnAn nnnnAn nnA PnSnAn PnSnAn PnnnAn PnnnAn nnSnAn nnSnAn nnnnAn nnnnAn nnA PnSnAn PnSnAn PnnnAn PnnnAn nnSnAn nnSnAn nnnnAn nnnnAn nnA PnSnAn PnSnAn PnnnAn PnnnAn nnSnAn nnSnAn nnnnAn nnnnAn Genotype Frequencies: PnSnAn: 16 ( 25% ) PnnnAn: 16 ( 25% ) nnSnAn: 16 ( 25% ) nnnnAn: 16 ( 25% )

So when you read the result, you just remove the "nn" from it so the result is this
PnSnAn : Bumblebee het albino
PnAn : Pastel het albino
SnAn : Spider het albino
An : het albino

You could also have use the Caps for the gene but it can more confusing than anything in my opinion to read.
In that case the genome of both should be spelled like this :
Bumblebee : PpSsaa
Albino : ppssAA

(in my opinion it's already hard to read)

you get these result :

Code:

PpSsaa x ppssAA PSa PSa Psa Psa pSa pSa psa psa psA PpSsAa PpSsAa PpssAa PpssAa ppSsAa ppSsAa ppssAa ppssAa psA PpSsAa PpSsAa PpssAa PpssAa ppSsAa ppSsAa ppssAa ppssAa psA PpSsAa PpSsAa PpssAa PpssAa ppSsAa ppSsAa ppssAa ppssAa psA PpSsAa PpSsAa PpssAa PpssAa ppSsAa ppSsAa ppssAa ppssAa psA PpSsAa PpSsAa PpssAa PpssAa ppSsAa ppSsAa ppssAa ppssAa psA PpSsAa PpSsAa PpssAa PpssAa ppSsAa ppSsAa ppssAa ppssAa psA PpSsAa PpSsAa PpssAa PpssAa ppSsAa ppSsAa ppssAa ppssAa psA PpSsAa PpSsAa PpssAa PpssAa ppSsAa ppSsAa ppssAa ppssAa Genotype Frequencies: PpSsAa: 16 ( 25% ) PpssAa: 16 ( 25% ) ppSsAa: 16 ( 25% ) ppssAa: 16 ( 25% )

in that case, you need to remove the double lower case to see what are the result.

PpSsAa : Bumblebee het Albino
PpssAa : Pastel het Albino
ppSsAa : Spider het albino
ppssAa : het Albino

You be the judge, but IMO it's harder that way.

Hope I have helped you understand better.

You can send me PM if you need help. I am not an expert at all, but I think I understand a part of it and I am always glad to help.

The only exception to all this, are the gene that are on the same "allele" or at least the one we think of. Most common are the Mojave and Lesser.

Like I previously said
Mojave : Mn
Lesser : Ln

But if you cross them you will do Mn x Ln cause they are on the same loci/allele.
You can't do Mnnn x nnLn , cause it wouldn't be right.

To explain it let's do it for the Super form
Super Mojave : MM
BEL super lesser : LL
If you breed them you will do MM x LL

Code:

Punnett Square MM x LL M M L LM LM L LM LM Genotype Frequencies: LM: 4 ( 100% )

You see, all the result are LM that mean they are all Blue Eyed Lucy from Mojave Lesser, they have both gene.

Now let's breed that super to a normal

Code:

LM x nn L M n Ln Mn n Ln Mn Genotype Frequencies: Ln: 2 ( 50% ) Mn: 2 ( 50% )

You see, you will have Lesser and Mojave but no Blue Eyed Lucy. Just like it is in real life. Actually, it's because people have actually done it and got these results that we know this theory is right.

Good luck :)

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

Here is a Pastel x Normal matrix:

Spider x Mojo:

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

Code:

Punnett Square PnSnnn x nnnnAA PSn PSn Pnn Pnn nSn nSn nnn nnn nnA PnSnAn PnSnAn PnnnAn PnnnAn nnSnAn nnSnAn nnnnAn nnnnAn nnA PnSnAn PnSnAn PnnnAn PnnnAn nnSnAn nnSnAn nnnnAn nnnnAn nnA PnSnAn PnSnAn PnnnAn PnnnAn nnSnAn nnSnAn nnnnAn nnnnAn nnA PnSnAn PnSnAn PnnnAn PnnnAn nnSnAn nnSnAn nnnnAn nnnnAn nnA PnSnAn PnSnAn PnnnAn PnnnAn nnSnAn nnSnAn nnnnAn nnnnAn nnA PnSnAn PnSnAn PnnnAn PnnnAn nnSnAn nnSnAn nnnnAn nnnnAn nnA PnSnAn PnSnAn PnnnAn PnnnAn nnSnAn nnSnAn nnnnAn nnnnAn nnA PnSnAn PnSnAn PnnnAn PnnnAn nnSnAn nnSnAn nnnnAn nnnnAn Genotype Frequencies: PnSnAn: 16 ( 25% ) PnnnAn: 16 ( 25% ) nnSnAn: 16 ( 25% ) nnnnAn: 16 ( 25% )

Code:

PpSsaa x ppssAA PSa PSa Psa Psa pSa pSa psa psa psA PpSsAa PpSsAa PpssAa PpssAa ppSsAa ppSsAa ppssAa ppssAa psA PpSsAa PpSsAa PpssAa PpssAa ppSsAa ppSsAa ppssAa ppssAa psA PpSsAa PpSsAa PpssAa PpssAa ppSsAa ppSsAa ppssAa ppssAa psA PpSsAa PpSsAa PpssAa PpssAa ppSsAa ppSsAa ppssAa ppssAa psA PpSsAa PpSsAa PpssAa PpssAa ppSsAa ppSsAa ppssAa ppssAa psA PpSsAa PpSsAa PpssAa PpssAa ppSsAa ppSsAa ppssAa ppssAa psA PpSsAa PpSsAa PpssAa PpssAa ppSsAa ppSsAa ppssAa ppssAa psA PpSsAa PpSsAa PpssAa PpssAa ppSsAa ppSsAa ppssAa ppssAa Genotype Frequencies: PpSsAa: 16 ( 25% ) PpssAa: 16 ( 25% ) ppSsAa: 16 ( 25% ) ppssAa: 16 ( 25% )

[/QUOTE]

For the first box, couldnt you only put PSn Pnn nSn nnn in the top row. and then just have nnA in the side row 4 times? Wouldnt that still come out with 25% each.

The way you had it with the huge squares i didnt really get confused by the lowercase s and p, but i sort of did when i saw all of the nnnnAn 's at first.

What would bumblebee x pastel be.

The way ive been doing it would be lile

-- P - S
P|PP|PS
n|Pn|Sn

i think thats the actual odds too?

is that the same how it would work for mojave x pastel.
25% PM
25% Pn
25% Mn
25% nn

I didnt know mojave x lesser made a bel. I didnt know you could mix them but I knew they both made BEL's... Whats a mojave lesser bel look like? because i know super mojave and super lessers are somewhat different.

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChadOwens

Here is a Pastel x Normal matrix:

Spider x Mojo:

Yeah, thats how ive done all my squares and i cant see why people always make em so long and extensive like above.(or is it below?)
I can handle the small squares like that. I wasnt sure if mojave was like M n or something else.

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

Forgot to add, is there a special name for spider mojos?

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

Quote:

Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

The way you had it with the huge squares i didnt really get confused by the lowercase s and p, but i sort of did when i saw all of the nnnnAn 's at first.

Use what suits you :). In my case I get more confused by the lower case stuff than using the "nn".

Quote:

Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

For the first box, couldnt you only put PSn Pnn nSn nnn in the top row. and then just have nnA in the side row 4 times? Wouldnt that still come out with 25% each.

Well, yes and no. In that case the results would have work.

The table you see what done using an automated punnet square. (if you looked at the link I put there). When you build a punnet square, you have to do it the right way otherwise it can get confused and the results won't always be the same. In that case it would have work, but there is other time it won't.

To do the first line, you need to combine each possibility. The way to do it, is to take the first letter and combine it with the first of the second gene, and the third. Than take the second letter of the first gene and use the first of the second and third gene. And so on and so on. As you can see, it can get confusing at some points.

Because the Albino is nn nn AA. All the possible combination are all "n n A". But if you were using a spider albino, it would have been different.

At some point, you have to stop trying to get it simpler otherwise you just complicate it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

-- P - S
P|PP|PS
n|Pn|Sn

No it's wrong. You see, a Bumblebee to a Pastel will result in Killerbee, Bumblebee, SuperPastel, Pastel, Spider and Normal.
That's why you can't use only 1 letter to represent a gene, but both.

Code:

PnSn x Pnnn PS Pn nS nn Pn PPSn PPnn PnSn Pnnn Pn PPSn PPnn PnSn Pnnn nn PnSn Pnnn nnSn nnnn nn PnSn Pnnn nnSn nnnn Genotype Frequencies: PPSn: 2 ( 12.5% ) Killerbee (Super Pastel Spider) PPnn: 2 ( 12.5% ) Super Pastel PnSn: 4 ( 25% ) Bumblebee (Pastel Spider) Pnnn: 4 ( 25% ) Pastel nnSn: 2 ( 12.5% ) Spider nnnn: 2 ( 12.5% ) Normal

or in your Caps Code

Code:

PpSs x Ppss PS Ps pS ps Ps PPSs PPss PpSs Ppss Ps PPSs PPss PpSs Ppss ps PpSs Ppss ppSs ppss ps PpSs Ppss ppSs ppss Genotype Frequencies: PPSs: 2 ( 12.5% ) PPss: 2 ( 12.5% ) PpSs: 4 ( 25% ) Ppss: 4 ( 25% ) ppSs: 2 ( 12.5% ) ppss: 2 ( 12.5% )

Quote:

Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

I didnt know mojave x lesser made a bel. I didnt know you could mix them but I knew they both made BEL's... Whats a mojave lesser bel look like? because i know super mojave and super lessers are somewhat different.

The Mojave Lesser, is a bit like the Super Stripe and YB gene etc... May be you are more aware of this ???
The genetics out there is a bit more complicated. But actually, it's that there is different gene that reside on the same location on the genome (dna if you want). And since you can only have 2 chromosome at the same place, it's impossible to have a super mojave and super lesser together. It's either one or the other. That's why you will have BEL from crossing both.

The BEL from Mojave x Lesser is a clean white one. Couldn't say if it's cleaner or not than a Lesser x Lesser, but it's cleaner than a Super Mojave from what I know.

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

Quote:

Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

Yeah, thats how ive done all my squares and i cant see why people always make em so long and extensive like above.(or is it below?)
I can handle the small squares like that. I wasnt sure if mojave was like M n or something else.

Cause these works when you are working with simple ones and with co-dominant gene. But once you work with combos, it's different.

It's also the "Classic" way of doing it. The scientific method that biologist and scientific use.

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watever

No it's wrong. You see, a Bumblebee to a Pastel will result in Killerbee, Bumblebee, SuperPastel, Pastel, Spider and Normal.
That's why you can't use only 1 letter to represent a gene, but both.

Code:

PnSn x Pnnn PS Pn nS nn Pn PPSn PPnn PnSn Pnnn Pn PPSn PPnn PnSn Pnnn nn PnSn Pnnn nnSn nnnn nn PnSn Pnnn nnSn nnnn Genotype Frequencies: PPSn: 2 ( 12.5% ) Killerbee (Super Pastel Spider) PPnn: 2 ( 12.5% ) Super Pastel PnSn: 4 ( 25% ) Bumblebee (Pastel Spider) Pnnn: 4 ( 25% ) Pastel nnSn: 2 ( 12.5% ) Spider nnnn: 2 ( 12.5% ) Normal

or in your Caps Code

Code:

PpSs x Ppss PS Ps pS ps Ps PPSs PPss PpSs Ppss Ps PPSs PPss PpSs Ppss ps PpSs Ppss ppSs ppss ps PpSs Ppss ppSs ppss Genotype Frequencies: PPSs: 2 ( 12.5% ) PPss: 2 ( 12.5% ) PpSs: 4 ( 25% ) Ppss: 4 ( 25% ) ppSs: 2 ( 12.5% ) ppss: 2 ( 12.5% )

Bumblebee x pastel...
:O see thats where I knew I was doing something wrong.... So there is reason for the longer ones... arrrrr. I sort of get that though. Since you have to have all four on the top you have to have 4 on the sides...

So if you did something like a lemon blast x pastel it would be the same?
instead of the S being spider for the bumblebee, just make it for "stripe" for pin stripe, to save from re writing the whole thing. Wouldnt it work exactly the same, since its a mix of two genes in one.
A chance of super blasts instead of killer bee, and lemon blasts instead of bumblebees.

I just never got why it would be four across. Since its sposto be like only two genes? or so I thought. :weirdface

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

^ about the two gene things i mean, i thuoght they could only give one gene form each parent. Like a pastel gene from the male and a pastel from the female for super pastel. But now its like you can do a bumblebee GENE and a pastel gene together. I didnt think they could do like give a double gene... if that makes sence?

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

Quote:

Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

So if you did something like a lemon blast x pastel it would be the same?
instead of the S being spider for the bumblebee, just make it for "stripe" for pin stripe, to save from re writing the whole thing. Wouldnt it work exactly the same, since its a mix of two genes in one.
A chance of super blasts instead of killer bee, and lemon blasts instead of bumblebees.

You are right ! You can change the S for a P (pinstripe) and you would get the same result. Since you are crossing a co-dom combo (pastel + something) with a base morph (pastel).

Quote:

Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

^ about the two gene things i mean, i thuoght they could only give one gene form each parent. Like a pastel gene from the male and a pastel from the female for super pastel. But now its like you can do a bumblebee GENE and a pastel gene together. I didnt think they could do like give a double gene... if that makes sence?

I am not sure I understand what you are saying about the bumblebee gene and pastel gene together ??

I think you are mixing the "gene" and the "allele" together.

From : http://www.newenglandreptile.com/genetics_intro.html

Gene - unit of heredity that determines the characteristics of the offspring.

Genotype – an organism’s genetic composition. Heredity - the transmission of genetic characters from parents to offspring.

Locus - a gene's position on a chromosome (plural: loci)

Allele - either of the two paired genes which affect an inheritable trait.

Codominant - a gene that causes the homozygous form to look different than the wild-type and the heterozygous form to have traits of both.

Dominant - a gene that causes an animal to look different than the wild-type and where the homozygous form and the heterozygous form look the same as each other.

Het – an abbreviation for heterozygous.

Heterozygous – possessing two different genes for a given trait. An animal with one mutated, recessive gene still appears normal; its mutated gene can be inherited by future offspring. A codominant animal is heterozygous for the dominant form of its mutated gene, yet is different in appearance than both the wild-type and homozygous forms.

Homozygous – A state in which both genes for a specific trait are the same. When a recessive gene is it its homozygous form, it makes the animal look different from the wild-type. When a dominant gene is in its homozygous state, it causes the animal to look different from both the wild-type and the heterozygous (codominant) forms.

I think you should read the entire definitions if you haven't yet.
and the part on "punnet square" and with co-dom and dominant
http://www.newenglandreptile.com/genetics_codom.html

What is actually a pastel ball python ? It's a ball python made a multiple gene know as normal where on one pair of chromosome (locus) it's have one pastel gene. That mean, on that particular locus, one allele is Pastel and the other one is Normal. Same thing goes for a spider or pinstripe but the genes are on a different locus.

What is a super pastel ? It's a snake with multiple gene that on one locus, it's have 2 alleles of the Pastel gene. Meaning one is pastel, and the other one is pastel, there is no normal gene on that locus.

Super pastel should be seen as Albino and Pastel as het Albino.

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watever

You are right ! You can change the S for a P (pinstripe) and you would get the same result. Since you are crossing a co-dom combo (pastel + something) with a base morph (pastel).

I am not sure I understand what you are saying about the bumblebee gene and pastel gene together ??

I think you are mixing the "gene" and the "allele" together.

From : http://www.newenglandreptile.com/genetics_intro.html

Gene - unit of heredity that determines the characteristics of the offspring.

Genotype – an organism’s genetic composition. Heredity - the transmission of genetic characters from parents to offspring.

Locus - a gene's position on a chromosome (plural: loci)

Allele - either of the two paired genes which affect an inheritable trait.

Codominant - a gene that causes the homozygous form to look different than the wild-type and the heterozygous form to have traits of both.

Dominant - a gene that causes an animal to look different than the wild-type and where the homozygous form and the heterozygous form look the same as each other.

Het – an abbreviation for heterozygous.

Heterozygous – possessing two different genes for a given trait. An animal with one mutated, recessive gene still appears normal; its mutated gene can be inherited by future offspring. A codominant animal is heterozygous for the dominant form of its mutated gene, yet is different in appearance than both the wild-type and homozygous forms.

Homozygous – A state in which both genes for a specific trait are the same. When a recessive gene is it its homozygous form, it makes the animal look different from the wild-type. When a dominant gene is in its homozygous state, it causes the animal to look different from both the wild-type and the heterozygous (codominant) forms.

I think you should read the entire definitions if you haven't yet.
and the part on "punnet square" and with co-dom and dominant
http://www.newenglandreptile.com/genetics_codom.html

What is actually a pastel ball python ? It's a ball python made a multiple gene know as normal where on one pair of chromosome (locus) it's have one pastel gene. That mean, on that particular locus, one allele is Pastel and the other one is Normal. Same thing goes for a spider or pinstripe but the genes are on a different locus.

What is a super pastel ? It's a snake with multiple gene that on one locus, it's have 2 alleles of the Pastel gene. Meaning one is pastel, and the other one is pastel, there is no normal gene on that locus.

Super pastel should be seen as Albino and Pastel as het Albino.

I know most of that stuff i was just saying like... For the square its like PSnn for the bumblebee trait, and like when you have that with the Pn of a pastel

For PSn for bumblebee that x the pastel gene from the pastel is PPSn. I didnt/dont get why its giving the P and the S from the bumblebee. Like the one parent gives both. Or is that effecting the allele then? Since, like it can give pastel and spider at once. But idk how it still can give the n also,

If you get that much, I was trying to do a bumblebee x normal square and was getting confused with the n's again. And how the bee can give the S and P at the same time... Like the bee gives a PSn right? . The normal gives a n so it would be PSnn, which is a bumblebee but that cant happen with bee x normal???

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

Well I think you are nearly there :)

The Bumblebee is 2 gene, so Pastel and Spider. Since when breeding it need to past 1 allele at each loci, yes a bumblebee can past both pastel and the spider gene at the same time. But it can also pass the normal gene that is at the same loci as the pastel or the spider gene.

That's why the first row read as this : PS Pn nS nn
These 4, are all the possibilities of the genes it can pass when breeding.

I think you understand it now :)

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watever

Well I think you are nearly there :)

The Bumblebee is 2 gene, so Pastel and Spider. Since when breeding it need to past 1 allele at each loci, yes a bumblebee can past both pastel and the spider gene at the same time. But it can also pass the normal gene that is at the same loci as the pastel or the spider gene.

That's why the first row read as this : PS Pn nS nn
These 4, are all the possibilities of the genes it can pass when breeding.

I think you understand it now :)

I know the bumblebee is the mix but... so it can pass a spider and a pastel gene???

PS and n from a normal would be a bee?

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

Quote:

Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

I know the bumblebee is the mix but... so it can pass a spider and a pastel gene???

PS and n from a normal would be a bee?

Yes it can pass both the pastel and spider gene, just the spider gene, just the pastel gene, or neither of them; onto its offspring.

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbittle

Yes it can pass both the pastel and spider gene, just the spider gene, just the pastel gene, or neither of them; onto its offspring.

:frustrate

How????

If the square looks like this for bee x pastel

PS Pn nS nn
Pn PPSn PPnn PnSn Pnnn
Pn PPSn PPnn PnSn Pnnn
nn PnSn Pnnn nnSn nnnn
nn PnSn Pnnn nnSn nnnn

For a normal all the Pn Pn nn nn would just be all nn. Therefor the first column actually in the square would be PSnn???
Theres two caps letters would mean it has pastel and spider traits. ??? This is why im confused.

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

Quote:

Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

:frustrate

How????

If the square looks like this for bee x pastel

PS Pn nS nn
Pn PPSn PPnn PnSn Pnnn
Pn PPSn PPnn PnSn Pnnn
nn PnSn Pnnn nnSn nnnn
nn PnSn Pnnn nnSn nnnn

For a normal all the Pn Pn nn nn would just be all nn. Therefor the first column actually in the square would be PSnn???
Theres two caps letters would mean it has pastel and spider traits. ??? This is why im confused.

The first column would be PnSn meaning Pastel and normal gene at the same locus as pastel, combined with Spider gene and normal gene at the same locus as spider. Thugh both these "n" 's are the same, they actually correspond to two different genes...but both being normal at the same locus. This nomenclature is a bit confusing, IMO.

JonV

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

The first column would be PnSn meaning Pastel and normal gene at the same locus as pastel, combined with Spider gene and normal gene at the same locus as spider. Thugh both these "n" 's are the same, they actually correspond to two different genes...but both being normal at the same locus. This nomenclature is a bit confusing, IMO.

JonV

I have no idea what you said means. lol.
on the first row its top row starts with PS, then the left column is Pn? So can the PS only give a P to the P or n of the pastel, or an S to the P of pastel or S to the n of pastel

and idk why its Pn Pn nn nn. shouldnt it be P n for all of them. Or.... do you just add the n to all of them, to complete the chart. because it can either give pastel or normal... but this way it can give more normals then pastel genes.

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

Here is a shot of a Spider Mojave I picked up a little while ago! They really are pretty snakes!
http://i552.photobucket.com/albums/j...g?t=1255492533

Re: Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...

Thats cool, it really looks like a mix of the two. Color and pattern :D

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Spider x mojave? - and other ? about squares...