How cold is too cold

Winter is creeping up and it is cold outside and inside my house. I have no heat and a separate space heater is not an option. Right now it is 60 deg inside my house.

It is 92 deg on the warm side of the tank, belly heat. Ambient temperature on warm side is 75 deg and 65 on the cold side. Humidity is 52%. I have a heat lamp on the warm side right now.

I read that putting foam insulation boards around the outside of the tank work well but I have no money to purchase them. Would using cardboard instead help keep the cold out? I have lots of cardboard.

Those are pretty dangerous ambient temps. You're going to have to do something major about your set up. I just barely manage in my basement which is 68-70 degrees.

Cardboard is better than nothing but I doubt that is going to fix your problem with a room at 60 degrees. Even with belly heat at 92 degrees you risk an RI with those ambient temps.

I wish I could offer more help but what you really need is a space heater.

Maybe a tub would help keep some of the heat in?

The heat lamp has warmed it up some. The ambient temperature is 84 on the side with the heat lamp and 74 on the other. Now I'm going to have humidity problems. The humidity is already down to 45% and I'm sure it will be in the lower 30's by morning.

Well humidity isnt that big of an issue compared to Temps. If they go into shed just soak em. Keep them temps up! Here in Central Florida we got a cold snap of 50!!!! I had to Put up a few space heaters and some Styrofoam in the Herp building out back.

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Originally Posted by casper

The heat lamp has warmed it up some. The ambient temperature is 84 on the side with the heat lamp and 74 on the other. Now I'm going to have humidity problems. The humidity is already down to 45% and I'm sure it will be in the lower 30's by morning.

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At least you got temps up into acceptable ranges- below 70F you risk RI. I personally don't like to see less than 72-74 if that. You can do things to bring the humidity up- misting or better yet adding a moist hide filled with organic Sphagnum moss that is kept moist.

You can add the styro-board insulation around your set-up to help insulate it, but with room temps that cool, I doubt you'll be losing the heat lamp.

Currently the temps on the cold side of the tank is 64 deg, warm side is 74 and Inside the hide its 93 (heat pad). Humidity is 48%.

Inside my house is 52 deg.

I have Styrofoam covering most of the tank. Aluminum foil covering half the top and a wet towel cover the other half. Should I add a 2nd heat lamp? If so how can I keep the humidity up without keeping the substrate soaked?

Please no space heater suggestions. I can NOT have any.

This is going to be a long winter.

If I were you I'd get another heat pad for the cool side.

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Originally Posted by unrezt

If I were you I'd get another heat pad for the cool side.

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I don't think that would solve the ambient temps would it?

Idk if this would be dangerous, or even help but I was thinking that since some uths were ok with being stuck to the sides of tanks, maybe you could put a layer or two of something in between the glass and the outside of the tank (back?) and a second uth? of course you would need another thermostat, possibly just a dimmer. Would that work? Would it even be safe for the snake? essentially, would laying a uth on the outside of the back of the tank be dangerous?

Have you considered using your current heating equipment and moving the snake to a plastic tub set up? I'm not sure there is going to be anything that solves your problem well, 52 degrees is really low for a room temp.

If you can't get a space heater and can't correct the problem you may have to consider finding the animal another home. With those temps it is only a matter of time for an RI to spring up. May not be for a month but it will most likely happen, are you going to be able to deal with the vet bills if thats the case?

Just some food for thought in your decision making.

Just curious,.... Why can't you get a space heater??

and why are your room temps in the 50s?

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

Have you considered using your current heating equipment and moving the snake to a plastic tub set up? I'm not sure there is going to be anything that solves your problem well, 52 degrees is really low for a room temp.

If you can't get a space heater and can't correct the problem you may have to consider finding the animal another home. With those temps it is only a matter of time for an RI to spring up. May not be for a month but it will most likely happen, are you going to be able to deal with the vet bills if thats the case?

Just some food for thought in your decision making.

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If I had money for vet bills I then I would have heat.

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Originally Posted by snakecharmer3638

Just curious,.... Why can't you get a space heater??

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The cost of using one.

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Originally Posted by Lucas339

and why are your room temps in the 50s?

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I have no heat.

Sorry to be blunt.... But if you can't afford heat then you should probably find someone to care for your snake that can afford to give it the proper care. Not having the money to care for an animal is not a good excuse. Find someone to give it too before you kill it. :mad:

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Originally Posted by snakecharmer3638

Sorry to be blunt.... But if you can't afford heat then you should probably find someone to care for your snake that can afford to give it the proper care. Not having the money to care for an animal is not a good excuse. Find someone to give it too before you kill it. :mad:

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As blunt as Tony was, I have to say that I agree with him. If you can't even afford to properly heat your animal, then you ARE going to be faced with an RI. And if you can't afford the vet bill, your animal will die without treatment.

And it's going to be very hard to find someone willing to take on an animal that is going to require veterinary care.

Re-home your snake, and wait until you're in a better financial situation before you get another. Because right now - you're risking the life of your snake.

Build a 5 sided plywood box, with an open front.
Insulate it with a few layers of cardboard(about 3/4",) and then drywall the inside of it.
The finished inside dimensions should be about 6' wider, and 6" longer than the tank itself, and should be about 12" taller.
Build a frame for the front out of 1"x2"'s and put plexiglass on both sides of the frame, like a storm window.
Use a soldering needle to burn about 25 holes in the top of one side of plexiglass, and 25 holes in the bottom of the other side of plexiglass.

You could use a hope chest, cabinet, closet, or whatever you can think of, instead of building the box.

Basically, put the tank in a ventilated "incubator" that can be climate contolled with a lightbulb.

If you can not do something like this, then you really should consider trying to rehome your pet. It is only the first week of October and it is going to get a lot colder over the next 4 1/2 months.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

As blunt as Tony was, I have to say that I agree with him. If you can't even afford to properly heat your animal, then you ARE going to be faced with an RI. And if you can't afford the vet bill, your animal will die without treatment.

And it's going to be very hard to find someone willing to take on an animal that is going to require veterinary care.

Re-home your snake, and wait until you're in a better financial situation before you get another. Because right now - you're risking the life of your snake.

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i fully agree.

I'd have to pretty much agree with everyone else here. If you live in Indiana and your house/apartment doesn't have heat because you can't afford to heat your house...well...I think you need to look after your own health and get that taken care of before taking on a pet. I lived in Indiana for 22 years; it's going to be a long winter, indeed, if your place of residence does not have heat.

If you can't afford to take care of yourself then you don't need to add pets to the mix! Cut out your internet access and use the money for heat!

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Originally Posted by rjk890

Build a 5 sided plywood box, with an open front.
Insulate it with a few layers of cardboard(about 3/4",) and then drywall the inside of it.
The finished inside dimensions should be about 6' wider, and 6" longer than the tank itself, and should be about 12" taller.
Build a frame for the front out of 1"x2"'s and put plexiglass on both sides of the frame, like a storm window.
Use a soldering needle to burn about 25 holes in the top of one side of plexiglass, and 25 holes in the bottom of the other side of plexiglass.

You could use a hope chest, cabinet, closet, or whatever you can think of, instead of building the box.

Basically, put the tank in a ventilated "incubator" that can be climate contolled with a lightbulb.

If you can not do something like this, then you really should consider trying to rehome your pet. It is only the first week of October and it is going to get a lot colder over the next 4 1/2 months.

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Thank you for your post. I was looking for suggestions and not to be rubbed into the ground because I don't have heat.

I purchased my snake last June not thinking about my house in the winter. I would really like to try and make it work before letting my sister take my snake.

@seeya205, yes I would much rather pay for my internet then to pay for heat but that is just me. I can keep warm no problem I have been doing it for many years.

what size habitat does your snake have? what type of heating are you using for it all together? maybe try some ceramic heaters. or some way to cover the openings to lock in more heat. im not going to bash your for not having heat cuz i dont really turn mine on til its super cold yet at the same time your pet is dependant on you for survival right now. so if money is tight, which it often is for lots of people... id find alternative housing during the winter for your snake.

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Originally Posted by stealthk7gsxr

what size habitat does your snake have? what type of heating are you using for it all together? maybe try some ceramic heaters. or some way to cover the openings to lock in more heat. im not going to bash your for not having heat cuz i dont really turn mine on til its super cold yet at the same time your pet is dependant on you for survival right now. so if money is tight, which it often is for lots of people... id find alternative housing during the winter for your snake.

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I have a 10 gallan tank. I have a rather large UTH as it cover a little over half the bottom and a heat lamp on the warm side. I put in a higher wattage bulb. I'm now using a 75 watt bulb and was using a 40 watt bulb. I have the top covered completely except for a small place where the heat lamp is to allow fresh air. I have half the top covered using a wet towel to help with humidity and the rest is covered with aluminum foil.

Right now the temp inside the hide is 93 deg. Ambient warm side is 84 and ambient cold side is 73. Humidity is 49%. I use an acurite to measure temps.

It has been raining most of today so the humidity is higher than normal plus it is 60 outside right now and 64 inside my house.

I'm looking into getting some insulation board. If that don't work when it is really cold in here then my sister is going to take my snake for the winter.

I agree with tthe other special when it colder and money tighter feeding the snake will be an issue
a work around for the heat ispossible I know my desktop stays on almost 24/7 the power supply flow air out at about 99 degrees. get some dryer ducting and use this ro move the warm air into the insulated box for the snake it won't fix al lte problem like humidity but the heated air could buy you some time.


I rather give u the 23 snakes I got ( and clost ot 2-3 grand in supplies) than risk their health during the winter.

You will save yourself a lot of money and trouble in the long run. If you just buy a small space heater and stick it in a closet along with your snake. Space heaters really don't suck that much energy you could probably heat your entire bedroom.

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Originally Posted by casper

Thank you for your post. I was looking for suggestions and not to be rubbed into the ground because I don't have heat.

I purchased my snake last June not thinking about my house in the winter. I would really like to try and make it work before letting my sister take my snake.

@seeya205, yes I would much rather pay for my internet then to pay for heat but that is just me. I can keep warm no problem I have been doing it for many years.

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You prefer to pay for internet solely for your enjoyment rather than putting the heat on when it will get 20F or less in your home mid-winter? Your animal will NOT survive those temperatures, you may, but it will not.
I'm sorry, but if your not willing to make price cuts for your animal, then you don't deserve to have one at all.
Please re-consider re-homing your animal.. if anything just give it to your sister for the winter months.

We are rubbing you into the ground because what your doing is on the edge of negligence abuse, and your animal may die if it's not already ill.

BPs are fairly hardy. I told a story on this forum about a guy that stands outside the local supermarket with his 2 BPs in 40 degs. and he houses them in a 60 deg basement with just a heat lamp.
Minimum, providing heat the old school way with your heat lamp will do. Its not ideal and it drys up your humidity. I do not recommend this though .
I know old schoolers that Heat lamp, water bowl and throw a mouse in every 10 days and they'll be fine philosophy. And theyre bps are 20 yrs old.

That being said i'm on the other end where i actually measure the snakes body temp in addition to they're hot spot with a temp gun on a regular basis.

What an interesting puzzle--I think the only way to get away with something like this is to do what one poster suggested--build a larger insulated box to put the cage inside, and then heat the inside of the box. It's still a huge risk, and temperatures will go up and down in extremes, and it will be difficult to keep the temp inside stable. I just can't recommend it.

It would be much safer to re-home the animal, temporarily. If you were to lose power even momentarily, the snake could quickly be killed. They tend to start dying when temps drop below 60F. I lost a ball some time ago when it escaped from its cage, and tragically decided to hide in a closet that was poorly insulated--the low temperatures in the closet killed it, even though the rest of the house was over 70F, and the closet interior must have been well above freezing.

These guys are equatorial animals and while they're widely considered to be hardy, they're definitely not COLD-hardy. I got a few RIs in the spring last year just from lowering the heat tape to 80F at night for a month for the breeding season. You can't play around with the heat on ball pythons--folks aren't being overcautious, here--they really cannot take cold at all.

If you aren't willing to pay for even a small, efficient space heater, then this snake cannot live with you over the winter. There's no way you can keep it safely warm.

I would not recommend a space heater in a closet, as one poster mentioned. That's a great way to burn down your place. Granted, it'll be warmer, but that's probably not quite what the OP was going for.

dude just cover the thing with cardboard and tape it down so no heat can escape..

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Originally Posted by casper

I have a 10 gallan tank. I have a rather large UTH as it cover a little over half the bottom and a heat lamp on the warm side. I put in a higher wattage bulb. I'm now using a 75 watt bulb and was using a 40 watt bulb. I have the top covered completely except for a small place where the heat lamp is to allow fresh air. I have half the top covered using a wet towel to help with humidity and the rest is covered with aluminum foil.

Right now the temp inside the hide is 93 deg. Ambient warm side is 84 and ambient cold side is 73. Humidity is 49%. I use an acurite to measure temps.

It has been raining most of today so the humidity is higher than normal plus it is 60 outside right now and 64 inside my house.

I'm looking into getting some insulation board. If that don't work when it is really cold in here then my sister is going to take my snake for the winter.

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that uth is ok, but heat rises and with the temps in your house bein low as they are it will dry that wet towel with the warm from below and cold from above and make the towel cold in the process. i know you konw what a wet cold towel feels like, so that idea is just making it colder in your tank. if your dead set on keeping your snake with you during the winter i'd suggest a few fairly large "dry" towels and your bulbs. i konw you said the wattage of your bulbs, what what type are they? not regualr light bulbs right? and what are you using for night heat when you shut those lights off? try the dry towel method, along with the ceramic heater (which can stay on constant) and alternate with a heat bulb for day and night. humidity should be your least of concerns right now. you can always mist with a spray bottle for that. keep your sister on speed dial in case that temp drops lol

The problem is fixed by using installation boards plus I put a heat pad on the back side of the tank. Temps been steady at mid 80's warm side and mid 70's cold side for 2 days now. Don't worry the glass where the heat pad is NOT going to fry my snake. It is the same temp as the UTH is which is 93 deg.

Those of you that think that instead of paying my internet access and pay for heat instead has a lot of growing up to do. Think about things before saying them.

A heater cost around $2500 and fuel to run that heater will cost around $150 to $250 a months. Now come on you guys there is NO internet going to cost that. It would take me 10 years by saving my internet bill to pay for a new furnace.

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Originally Posted by stealthk7gsxr

that uth is ok, but heat rises and with the temps in your house bein low as they are it will dry that wet towel with the warm from below and cold from above and make the towel cold in the process. i know you konw what a wet cold towel feels like, so that idea is just making it colder in your tank. if your dead set on keeping your snake with you during the winter i'd suggest a few fairly large "dry" towels and your bulbs. i konw you said the wattage of your bulbs, what what type are they? not regualr light bulbs right? and what are you using for night heat when you shut those lights off? try the dry towel method, along with the ceramic heater (which can stay on constant) and alternate with a heat bulb for day and night. humidity should be your least of concerns right now. you can always mist with a spray bottle for that. keep your sister on speed dial in case that temp drops lol

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The heat lamp is always on. The type of bulb I'm using is just like the one shown here...


http://www.bigappleherp.com/Exo-Terr...=2&category=12

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Originally Posted by casper

A heater cost around $2500 and fuel to run that heater will cost around $150 to $250 a months.

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I was under the impression that they were referring to a $30-$50 space heater in the room/near the tank, although I could be mistaken. Hope you get it all taken care of before winter hits.

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Originally Posted by casper

The problem is fixed by using installation boards plus I put a heat pad on the back side of the tank. Temps been steady at mid 80's warm side and mid 70's cold side for 2 days now. Don't worry the glass where the heat pad is NOT going to fry my snake. It is the same temp as the UTH is which is 93 deg.

Those of you that think that instead of paying my internet access and pay for heat instead has a lot of growing up to do. Think about things before saying them.

A heater cost around $2500 and fuel to run that heater will cost around $150 to $250 a months. Now come on you guys there is NO internet going to cost that. It would take me 10 years by saving my internet bill to pay for a new furnace.

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I think those temps are completely fine if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by casper

Those of you that think that instead of paying my internet access and pay for heat instead has a lot of growing up to do. Think about things before saying them.

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Not to be a jerk but internet access is for entertainment purposes only (unless it's you're job I guess >.>). It is NOT necessary for survival and the money you are paying for it could be better spent elsewhere. Yes heating can be expensive but having heat is a better use of money than entertaining yourself. At the very least you can use public internet if you do need it that badly.

Anyways...

Quick bit of math here

Electricity cost for running PC 24/7 for 1 month: ~$33 depending on if you have a nice PC or not it it could be higher or lower
1 month of the cheapest comcast internet where I live: $24.99 (~$58 total per month) (There's probably cheaper internet but I personally hate slow internet and in general anything slow on the computer >.>)

$30 Lasko space heater running on high 24/7: ~$195, low 24/7: ~$117

Draw whatever conclusion to that you want. The numbers are just a rough estimate. The space heater should not be left on 24/7 obviously, and you may or may not turn your PC and/or monitor off at night.

Not trying to side one way or the other but I will say this... At one point in this thread you said you didn't have money to insulate the tank, but apparently you did insulate it. If you can't at the minimum afford to insulate the tank you keep the snake in, how do you pay for it's food? A tub is quite cheap to buy and keeps heat better than the tank with no need for a heating lamp.

Although letting the house get that cold would probably cause other problems than just with your snake.

The real cold weather hasn't even hit yet! If you are having temp problems now then what are you going to do when it does get cold!

Dude. If you prioritize INTERNET over heat KNOWING that a snake can't warm up like you can, I gave to agree with everyone else. Don't get a cold-blooded pet I'd you know that's gonna be the case.

Wait, I apologize for the previous part because I didn't realize that this was such an old thing. But can someone explain why the op couldn't get a space heater when they run on electricity, which he obviously had?

This is gonna be harsh...

I agree with everyone else... and I'm going to beat a dead horse, because in this situation, it needs to be beat. Now if your heat got shut off for a few weeks, but you've corrected things and it's going to be turned on in 5 days, sure, I'd do what I could to help you out. Hell, I've got a UTH that I would send you... but you say you don't have heat, and and aren't going to. If you don't have the money for heat, you can contact the utility companies and they will be sure you have enough heat to live comfortably throughout the winter with little or no cost to you... or at least for a budget you can afford. I know many who have needed this in the past, and they will make accomodations for you.

So this leads me to believe, you are just choosing to not have heat, or to not pay the money to heat your living quarters... if that is your CHOICE, then if there are animals and heaven forbid children living there, they should be taken from you, as you are not responsible enough to have them in your care.

Say what you want, that's the truth. You are not providing the animal with something it NEEDS. You might as well be asking how long can a snake go without food, because you can't afford to feed it for a year.

Like I said, if you needed a heat source, or food, or a hide, I'd be happy to help under most conditions... but just because you choose not to get heat and you're too stubborn to put the animals needs above your own, I have no respect for that. I feel sorry for your snake and anything else in your care.

I realise this thread is old, but it is still winter.

Cardboard is easy to find for free, and is a good insulator. Keep an eye on potential fire hazard if high wattage lights are used around a wrapped tank.

The 20 year commitment of owning a snake can include a lot of economic ups and downs. The US in in a depression, and it won't be getting better any time soon. It may get MUCH worse soon. The dollar is no longer the reserve currency, so we can no longer export our debt, and we no longer call the shots on the world stage. The last time Kerry met with Putin, Kerry backed down. This was regarding Syria. Everything the US has been able to take for granted since WWII has changed.

I hope the OP has been able to solve the problem.
Many more people may find themselves in the same predicament.

this is a bad situation i feel for you bro but the snake has needs and if you cant meet them then your sister should have the snake assuming she can meet the needs. and asap. ive had an animal in the past that i just couldn't handle, she couldn't be in the kennel with my other dogs due to them fighting and she couldn't be in my house due to her not letting us sleep what's so ever. so i had to give her over to my mother. it happens. but if you love an animal then you want what is best for it and you came here to try to get help finding that.

foam board is 14 dollars for more then enough to do an entire rack worth of insulation. i know i just purchased some as my temps were getting lower then i care for. personally i don't understand how people in the far north are able to keep snakes or breed feeder rats when keeping the room 80 here in Texas with a brand new (last February) home ac/heater unit is having a hard time keeping up here. and its only 40 in the mornings right now...

personally if you cant afford a little foam board or some other way to insulate your snake and keep it warm and healthy then you need to find the best fastest home you can for your animal. its not against you its just that the animal cant chose the situation and is completely dependent upon you.

It takes an adult to admit when they are unable to do something and turn to others, that is where you are, and that's all that should be asked of you.

didn't read post date on the original issue sorry for my reply.

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Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

This is gonna be harsh...

I agree with everyone else... and I'm going to beat a dead horse, because in this situation, it needs to be beat. Now if your heat got shut off for a few weeks, but you've corrected things and it's going to be turned on in 5 days, sure, I'd do what I could to help you out. Hell, I've got a UTH that I would send you... but you say you don't have heat, and and aren't going to. If you don't have the money for heat, you can contact the utility companies and they will be sure you have enough heat to live comfortably throughout the winter with little or no cost to you... or at least for a budget you can afford. I know many who have needed this in the past, and they will make accomodations for you.

So this leads me to believe, you are just choosing to not have heat, or to not pay the money to heat your living quarters... if that is your CHOICE, then if there are animals and heaven forbid children living there, they should be taken from you, as you are not responsible enough to have them in your care.

Say what you want, that's the truth. You are not providing the animal with something it NEEDS. You might as well be asking how long can a snake go without food, because you can't afford to feed it for a year.

Like I said, if you needed a heat source, or food, or a hide, I'd be happy to help under most conditions... but just because you choose not to get heat and you're too stubborn to put the animals needs above your own, I have no respect for that. I feel sorry for your snake and anything else in your care.

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Originally Posted by RiA MaU

Wait, I apologize for the previous part because I didn't realize that this was such an old thing. But can someone explain why the op couldn't get a space heater when they run on electricity, which he obviously had?

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Originally Posted by RiA MaU

Dude. If you prioritize INTERNET over heat KNOWING that a snake can't warm up like you can, I gave to agree with everyone else. Don't get a cold-blooded pet I'd you know that's gonna be the case.

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Originally Posted by distaff

I realise this thread is old, but it is still winter.

Cardboard is easy to find for free, and is a good insulator. Keep an eye on potential fire hazard if high wattage lights are used around a wrapped tank.

The 20 year commitment of owning a snake can include a lot of economic ups and downs. The US in in a depression, and it won't be getting better any time soon. It may get MUCH worse soon. The dollar is no longer the reserve currency, so we can no longer export our debt, and we no longer call the shots on the world stage. The last time Kerry met with Putin, Kerry backed down. This was regarding Syria. Everything the US has been able to take for granted since WWII has changed.

I hope the OP has been able to solve the problem.
Many more people may find themselves in the same predicament.

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Originally Posted by Mada

this is a bad situation i feel for you bro but the snake has needs and if you cant meet them then your sister should have the snake assuming she can meet the needs. and asap. ive had an animal in the past that i just couldn't handle, she couldn't be in the kennel with my other dogs due to them fighting and she couldn't be in my house due to her not letting us sleep what's so ever. so i had to give her over to my mother. it happens. but if you love an animal then you want what is best for it and you came here to try to get help finding that.

foam board is 14 dollars for more then enough to do an entire rack worth of insulation. i know i just purchased some as my temps were getting lower then i care for. personally i don't understand how people in the far north are able to keep snakes or breed feeder rats when keeping the room 80 here in Texas with a brand new (last February) home ac/heater unit is having a hard time keeping up here. and its only 40 in the mornings right now...

personally if you cant afford a little foam board or some other way to insulate your snake and keep it warm and healthy then you need to find the best fastest home you can for your animal. its not against you its just that the animal cant chose the situation and is completely dependent upon you.

It takes an adult to admit when they are unable to do something and turn to others, that is where you are, and that's all that should be asked of you.

didn't read post date on the original issue sorry for my reply.

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This is A 6.5 YEARS OLD thread, and the OP has not been on the site in 4.5 YEARS

So before more people decide to beat a VERY DEAD horse :lockd: