Introducing a New Method for Enforcing TOS/Site Rules

As most of you are aware, our little site has grown by leaps and bounds. New members are joining our community faster and in greater numbers than ever before. Due to this exploding population and greatly increased rate of new posts and threads, it is becoming necessary for the Staff to adjust how we enforce our TOS/Rules.

We are now implementing a new method that we're calling the Infraction System. This is a set list of Infractions, each with a pre-determined number of points associated with it. When a member breaks the rules, they will be assigned an Infraction for that post by a Staff member (mod or admin).

There are no consequences for an individual infraction, but an accumulation of points will lead to a 30-day ban, and eventually to a permanent ban. The details of this System are spelled out in the Announcement at the top of this forum. Please read through that.

The Staff has worked tremendously hard to find ways to adjust to our rapid growth, and for now, this is what we have determined to be the best method. Please bear in mind that this is a completely new tool for us, and we will have to learn to use it. Our staff is human, and may make mistakes as we learn to work with this. Don't get angry if you feel you've received an unjust Infraction. ALL Infractions are subject to appeal. Send a PM to any admin (iceman25, JLC, rabernet, mlededee) and we will look into it. The Infractions, their points, and the penalties associated with them are subject to change as we see how they work.

The faster we grow, and the larger we grow, the harder it is to maintain that open, friendly and welcoming environment that we all hold dear. A consistent and firm application of our TOS/Rules, will be essential in keeping up. But even more important than that, will be the community itself...each of us willing to hold ourselves to a high standard and not be inclined to turn this site into a personal playground or venue for petty vendettas. It's our community that makes us so special. Not our rules.

A note on QT:
Most of you are familiar with the Quaratine Room. (If not, shoot a PM to a staff member and ask!) The original intent of the QT Room was to allow a place for heated discussions without interfering with the friendly atmosphere of the public forums. It was never intended to be a "free for all" place with no rules. The rules of the site still apply in there. Infractions can and will be assessed in there, as needed. More details about how the Infraction System works in QT will be added in a stickied thread there soon.

A note on Moderated Members:
A few members have been placed on "Moderated Status" due to either negative reps, or a consistent inability to follow the rules. While this allowed the staff to keep consistently inflamitory or offensive posts from appearing from certain members...it also put the burden of THEIR behavior on OUR shoulders. Once on moderated status, the only consequence to an infraction of the rules was having their post edited or deleted.

This will no longer be the case. Each and every member will be responsible for their own behavior. If a member simply cannot abide by the rules they agreed to when registering here, then they will not be able to participate here.

Those on Moderated Status will no longer be so....but they will receive a "head start" of Infraction Points, based on their past history of participation and inability to follow the rules.

In Conclusion:
I know this has been a very long post to wade through. I'm sorry. I'm almost done! Just a couple more misc points I want to make.

-- The Infraction System only works with posts made in the forums. Abuses of the rep system will continue to be handled as they always have been. Abuses of the PM system will be handled separately as well. The Infraction System is not the only means of enforcing the rules.

-- The System is still "in the works" and will continue to change and evolve as we work with it. But the basic foundation of it is solid and ready to go.

-- Members will NOT receive retroactive Infraction Points (except as listed for moderated members above). No posts made before this announcement will be hit. But once this announcement "goes live" every member, no matter how long-standing, no matter their post count or reputation score, is accountable for their own behavior and abiding by the rules of the Site.

-- While it may seem similar in some ways, our Infraction System is NOT like Fauna's.

-- This thread will be left open for the time being, for technical questions or any needed clarification. Our methods are not open for debate, though. We have thought long and hard about this and discussed it until our fingers were falling off from typing so much and eyes bleeding from reading it all. This is what we will be doing for the foreseeable future.

I'm sure there's more to say on the matter, but I've already said more than most will read, I fear.... THANK YOU for taking the time to do so and for taking a commited interest in the well being of Ball-Pythons.net.

--Judy

Reminds me of when John Belushi was on double secret probation in "Animal House"(classic).

Not trying to make fun Judy, just thought it was funny:D.

You guys got your hands full with everything going on here.
You have my full support:salute:

Haha! Thanks, Raul!

Where will these points be posted? Will they be visible to others or just mods/admins?

The TOS says that the points will fade with time, I'm guessing this is similar to time off for good behavior? Is there a set amount of points that will fade per month or is this arbitrary? Will this be automatic or would it need the attention of a moderator to manually erase the infraction points?

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Where will these points be posted? Will they be visible to others or just mods/admins?

The TOS says that the points will fade with time, I'm guessing this is similar to time off for good behavior? Is there a set amount of points that will fade per month or is this arbitrary? Will this be automatic or would it need the attention of a moderator to manually erase the infraction points?

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We're working on a way to make a member's total points visible under their avatar with their post count and rep boxes...but that is not a built-in part of the software and will have to be customized if possible.

Currently, it is set so that if/when a post receives an infraction, all members will be able to see it and click on it to see the details. It'll show up as a big red box in the bottom right of the text window (to the right of the Quote buttons).

Each infraction has a set "fade" time and it will be automatic.

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We're working on a way to make a member's total points visible under their avatar with their post count and rep boxes...but that is not a built-in part of the software and will have to be customized if possible.

Currently, it is set so that if/when a post receives an infraction, all members will be able to see it and click on it to see the details. It'll show up as a big red box in the bottom right of the text window (to the right of the Quote buttons).

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I guess I'm personally not too wild about that part of it. I've never been a great believer in public humiliation as a tool for punishment.

If we are displaying Infraction points then Rep points should be shown also. Just showing the Infractions points just adds to Mark's case of public humiliation.

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Originally Posted by Brimstone111888

If we are displaying Infraction points then Rep points should be shown also. Just showing the Infractions points just adds to Mark's case of public humiliation.

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Here you go Jeff - here's the guide to see what level of reputation points someone has when you hover over their green or red boxes. It's in the sticky here in the Site Info on Reputation points.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=32121

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POINTS..........MOUSE-OVER TEXT

-26 - * .............Is not long for this site
-11--25 ............Needs to learn some social skills
0--10 ...............Is rocking the boat
1-5 ..................Might want to think before posting
6-15 ................Is off to a great start
16-25 ...............Is learning and growing
26-50 ...............Is a face we're always glad to see
51-75 ...............Is a community asset
76-100 ..............Is doing things the right way
101-125 ............Is making friends and influencing people
126-150 ............Is a hellacious helpful herper
151-175 ............Is building a stronger community
176-200 ............Is a friend indeed
201-225 ............Is always seeking ways to help
226-250 ............Always has a helping hand
251-300 ............Is always there when you need them
301-350 ............Can't wait to help
351-400 ............Is someone we look up to
401-450 ............Is true blue
451-500 ............Is a hero to millions
501 + ................Sets an example for us all

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Looks like big brother just got bigger.... I like the fact that they are searching for a way for the average joe to see how "bad" people are by having this "detention" number posted with your avatar......

Hmm....

I realy like that system you have present. im an activ member on a Norwegian forum (Reptilfreaks.no) an when we get as big like this forum, maby we most think about something like this. we are 2148 members. (im not a admin or mod)

will take the opportunity say i realy like this forum, though is a lot bigger than im jused to.

It is what it is. :gj:
You have to have some means to keep order so it doesn't become a free for all.
No big whup if your doing what your suppose to be doing and being respectful.
Sometimes some people ( and I mean NO ONE in particular ) need to be reeled in.
This site has grown since back in the day and it is still an awesome site and I don't see the new rules affecting or changing that.

Im not to thrilled with it either. But I see where it could help for sure!! I'm just worried that we I'll have a whole bunch of banned people... Lol!

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I guess I'm personally not too wild about that part of it. I've never been a great believer in public humiliation as a tool for punishment.

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Mark, I hate to sound like the meanie, but I think public humiliation is a great tool. Especially if one is forewarned that public hmiliation is a punishment for their actions in blatent disreguard for the posted rules. Sometimes it will make others think twicw before they type. Sometimes it doesn't matter either way.

you have to be kidding me. we just got the rep point system working. now that people have to put there name on neg reps they have gone down. so you are looking for a new way of weeding out people. when does it stop when there is 15 different ways of getting banned. now not only does someone have to watch there rep points they have to watch this now to. i say get rid of it all and lets just talk snakes.

I feel a bit torn.

Negative reps, positive reps, but at the same time I think that if you are participating, being proactive, and not violating the TOS, which are clearly stated, then it shouldn't be too much of a concern.

Sometime i wonder if BP net has a bit too much access to personal info, etc. But maybe that is part of managing a site this large. I haven't ever done it, so I won't criticize.

I also haven't been here for the recent ***** storms* either, but was witness to them on a very active forum, that has all but shut down as there wasn't much intervention or means to control the abusive and defensive posters.

So I guess... yeah... you know the politics best, and good luck finding a system that helps maintain order and reinforce the sense of community that we are all hoping for.

TOS and standards of behvaviours are no accidents, they are there for a reason.

Bruce

I guess you have to do what you have to do. Things start to get out of hand when a site gets this big and there are still a few number of staff. I understand the dilemma. You can't babysit every member and every post!

I don't see any issue with it.
Rep points, these new points, and the regular modding.. none of which come into play if you follow the rules.
In an ideal world, every member would be nice, never start problems, never continue problems, and only chat about snake stuff and have fun.
In reality, there's always some people who want to act like butts, want to skirt the rules, or try to get away with whatever bad behavior they can. If this makes it easier for staff to moderate the site, then it's a good thing.
I'm not sure how it's supposed to be a bad thing?

I think it could be a great thing if it's thought out. If you look at the 3 or 4 major things that make other sites suck and make rules against being one of those asshat posters, this site will be able to grow while maintaining the integrity it has always had. This site is blowing up, and I think once Judy, and maybe even Adam, are forever in the Reptile Radio archives, this will be the go to site for everyone who has an internet connection and is interested in ball pythons. With a ton of users comes a bunch of trolls and idiots. If the rules are clearly posted and are meant to prevent this site from turning into 100 p!ssing matches every day, nothing should change for the present BP.net community. I don't know what the new rules will be, but as long as it's thought out to try and avoid the problems other bigger sites face, then rock on. I doubt they will be too much about being big brother on an ego trip, and I'd hate to see this site turn into another constant royal rumble of retarded slap boxers, trolls and Star Wars forum battles.

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Mark, I hate to sound like the meanie, but I think public humiliation is a great tool.

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I guess I would have hoped that we as a society have evolved beyond this kind of spectacle. Will people see this more as a punishment for those who break the rules or as an entertainment for the onlookers? My personal viewpoint remains that I see very little positive benefit for airing our dirty laundry in public. About the ONLY benefit that I see to this would be as a way for those of us that are not moderators or admins to judge for ourselves whether or not the new rules are being applied fairly across the board, but I'm unsure if that single benefit would outweigh the stigma of what amounts to being placed in a virtual pillory.

Mark

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

you have to be kidding me. we just got the rep point system working. now that people have to put there name on neg reps they have gone down. so you are looking for a new way of weeding out people. when does it stop when there is 15 different ways of getting banned. now not only does someone have to watch there rep points they have to watch this now to. i say get rid of it all and lets just talk snakes.

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lol, It takes a lot to get banned from bp.net, you have to blatantly want to get banned. If your receiving multiple neg rep points something is wrong. If people would just come here and hang out, and JUST talk snakes none of this would have even come up. It's the babysitting that are making the mods and admins do this. They are tired of it. Since I've never been a mod or admin, i can't really speak on how they feel, but i have a pretty good idea. When rules are set, and broken repeatedly, something has to be done. WE are not all over 18 here, and it's only right to abide by the rules! ----i highly doubt that want to ban anybody, they don't get anything out of it....it's not fun-----they don't get a bonus for it---------

well this is just my 2 pennies.........
Tyree

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I guess I would have hoped that we as a society have evolved beyond this kind of spectacle. Will people see this more as a punishment for those who break the rules or as an entertainment for the onlookers? My personal viewpoint remains that I see very little positive benefit for airing our dirty laundry in public. About the ONLY benefit that I see to this would be as a way for those of us that are not moderators or admins to judge for ourselves whether or not the new rules are being applied fairly across the board, but I'm unsure if that single benefit would outweigh the stigma of what amounts to being placed in a virtual pillory.

Mark

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I see where your coming from Mark, i can only assume the reason behind it is to alert members of a repeat offender, so your less likely to involve yourself with them......total speculation and i could be completely wrong.

**hate to use this as an example, but just think about fauna, you see guys over there with bright red blocks, or warning! I really don't understand there rep system, but you get the idea that this person could potentially start a problem.

everyone says that the site is growing sooo fast. i am just cuerious if there is a way to see how many people posted more than 5 times in the past month. i know the member list is huge. but as i look through there i havent ever seen 90% of those people post. i personally have 3 user names in there. the old two were never taken down after i told the mods if i could get a new user name. but seriously i would love to see if there is a way to see how many people posted more than 5 times in the past month. i doubt it would be more than 500 users.

i just did some looking just the first page of members. there are 50 members on that page. there are only roughly 15 that have posted out of that 50 in the past month. and more than 1/2 have not posted in more than a year.

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

i just did some looking just the first page of members. there are 50 members on that page. there are only roughly 15 that have posted out of that 50 in the past month. and more than 1/2 have not posted in more than a year.

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If it helps at all, the click through rate from my banners on the forum (and links in my sig) has increased dramatically since I started running them a couple years ago ... and in the last two months, the numbers are up by an order of magnitude. From those stats alone it looks very much to me like there's been a signifigant jump maybe not in active posters, but definitely with people "lurking".

-adam

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

i just did some looking just the first page of members. there are 50 members on that page. there are only roughly 15 that have posted out of that 50 in the past month. and more than 1/2 have not posted in more than a year.

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Matt, even if you take your sampling of the first 50 (which statistically isn't nearly enough to base a theory on but we'll stick with that for now).

We have almost 6,500 registered users. If only 15 in every 50 actually are active (which I'm not saying in any way is an actual representation), then using your own sampling that would reflect almost 2,000 active users.

Think for a moment what it takes to manage the needs of 2,000 individuals with 2,000 different opinions, 2,000 different levels of experience, 2,000 different personalities......:)

i will go through and add all of them up in the next day or two.

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If it helps at all, the click through rate from my banners on the forum (and links in my sig) has increased dramatically since I started running them a couple years ago ... and in the last two months, the numbers are up by an order of magnitude. From those stats alone it looks very much to me like there's been a signifigant jump maybe not in active posters, but definitely with people "lurking".

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Adam, you don't need to be a member to read most of these forums, so do you get a breakdown of clicks on your banners telling you if people were logged in or not logged in? Or is it just a total number of clicks? It may not be germane to the discussion, but I'd be curious to know if you get a lot of clicks from people who may never post here. I would imagine the number of lurkers here is high, but you don't need to be a member to lurk.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Mark, I hate to sound like the meanie, but I think public humiliation is a great tool. Especially if one is forewarned that public hmiliation is a punishment for their actions in blatent disreguard for the posted rules. Sometimes it will make others think twicw before they type. Sometimes it doesn't matter either way.

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This place is hardly public, for one. Second: When do we move to corporal punishment? The tighter it gets, the more lousy in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

you have to be kidding me. we just got the rep point system working. now that people have to put there name on neg reps they have gone down. so you are looking for a new way of weeding out people. when does it stop when there is 15 different ways of getting banned. now not only does someone have to watch there rep points they have to watch this now to. i say get rid of it all and lets just talk snakes.

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I Second that! When does it stop?

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Adam, you don't need to be a member to read most of these forums, so do you get a breakdown of clicks on your banners telling you if people were logged in or not logged in? Or is it just a total number of clicks? It may not be germane to the discussion, but I'd be curious to know if you get a lot of clicks from people who may never post here. I would imagine the number of lurkers here is high, but you don't need to be a member to lurk.

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Unfortunately, I don't have that data ... but my intention wasn't to speak about the number of registered users on the site ... just it's growth overall.

For whatever it's worth, now that I've been runnning my own forum one of the lessons that I've learned is that moderation/administration is not only about the people that are active on the site, it's also about making the forums a comfortable and friendly place for the people who just choose to watch and learn. It's one of those great "customer service" things ... finding that happy medium that works for all of your "customers". But heck, I know ball pythons way better than I know forums and junks, so take my babbling with a grain of salt.

-adam

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Originally Posted by bcampos

When do we move to corporal punishment?

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Now wait a second there ... you might be on to something ... spankings? :D :love: :D ... as long as we can keep Evan, Derek, Raj, Ed, Nate, and Lawrence on the bench, I'd sign up for that!! :P :love: :sweeet:

-adam

I read the infraction list with corresponding points. To be honest, I was a little nervous, asking myself if I would have gotten any points yet. Not that I am particularly confrontational, but I think I may have had my share of inappropriate jokes and one or two attempts at putting "rowdy" (careful not to name call here ;)) people in their place - though somewhat humanely, it may have been considered engaging in confrontation.

I guess I am just wondering how strictly and evenly (applied to all members) the infraction system will work. For example, are the following posts in this thread OK, or are they bordering on "name calling"? Is "name calling" only name calling when directed at a particular individual? Not to get crazy anal (name calling myself here) on everyone, but what about insinuation or well-crafted loop-hole "name calling" or other type of infractions?

Anyway, on to the examples:

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

In reality, there's always some people who want to act like butts, want to skirt the rules, or try to get away with whatever bad behavior they can.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

If you look at the 3 or 4 major things that make other sites suck and make rules against being one of those asshat posters, this site will be able to grow while maintaining the integrity it has always had.... With a ton of users comes a bunch of trolls and idiots.... and I'd hate to see this site turn into another constant royal rumble of retarded slap boxers, trolls and Star Wars forum battles.

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And is this "sexual innuendo"? No offense to Adam, who we all love... :D

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Now wait a second there ... you might be on to something ... spankings? :D :love: :D ... as long as we can keep Evan, Derek, Raj, Ed, Nate, and Lawrence on the bench, I'd sign up for that!! :P :love: :sweeet:

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One more thing...

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Think for a moment what it takes to manage the needs of 2,000 individuals with 2,000 different opinions, 2,000 different levels of experience, 2,000 different personalities......:)

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Some of us members have more than one personality. So these stats will never be perfect. :D

Don't be a playa hata, y'all (did I just name call?). Ya knows I luv ya!!! :bow:

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Originally Posted by MelissaFlipski

And is this "sexual innuendo"? No offense to Adam, who we all love... :D

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LOL ... none taken ... wasn't intended as "sexual innuendo", but I can see how it could be taken that way because of all of the "guys" being excluded from giving out the spankings ... truth is, I'm fragile and afraid of getting my corporal punishment from big burly "man hands" ... yeah, that's the ticket! ... well hello! :love: :rofl:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

LOL ... none taken ... wasn't intended as "sexual innuendo", but I can see how it could be taken that way because of all of the "guys" being excluded from giving out the spankings ... truth is, I'm fragile and afraid of getting my corporal punishment from big burly "man hands" ... yeah, that's the ticket! ... well hello! :love: :rofl:

-adam

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Funny thing is, between being SO anal (few are as bad as me), having a tendency toward paranoia, and enjoying a proclivity to analyze things to DEATH, I almost asked if when I said, "We all love Adam," I was also guilty of sexual innuendo. :D

P.S. Glad there are no infraction points for derailing a thread! Wouldn't that be a killer?

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Originally Posted by MelissaFlipski

I almost asked if when I said, "We all love Adam," I was also guilty of sexual innuendo.

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well hello! :love:

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Originally Posted by MelissaFlipski

P.S. Glad there are no infraction points for derailing a thread! Wouldn't that be a killer?

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I'd be COOKED!!!! :rofl:

-adam

People who complain seem to forget something, all of us are GUEST here and if it wasn’t for the work of the admins and mods this place might not be there and/or might not be running the way it is.

I see rules has a way to ensure the good functioning of this growing forum not a way to run people o,f and for those who have issue with rules or the way this forum is run they need to look at other forums and realize how good with have it here and how fortunate we are to have BP.net

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Now wait a second there ... you might be on to something ... spankings? :D :love: :D ... as long as we can keep Evan, Derek, Raj, Ed, Nate, and Lawrence on the bench, I'd sign up for that!! :P :love: :sweeet:-adam

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I'll be there in june delivering the spanking in person ;)

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Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

I'll be there in june delivering the spanking in person ;)

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well hello hello! :love: :banana: :D

-adam

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Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

People who complain seem to forget something, all of us are GUEST here and if it wasn’t for the work of the admins and mods this place might not be there and/or might not be running the way it is.

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Does complaining count as "disrespecting the site"? 50 points. Ouch.

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Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

I'll be there in june delivering the spanking in person ;)

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

well hello hello! :love: :banana: :D

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Now, y'all! Keep it clean. :D

Edit: I hope sarcasm isn't added to the infraction list (when not bad advice, that is).

It's sad to see that the mod's and admin's have been forced to reagulate the behavior of adults on this site,though on the other hand if those people would just regulate and monderate themselves then this might not have happned. All in all first and foremost this is a family orinitated site for the education and enjoyment of caring for herps. As the site grows there is bound to be more and more conflict with differning opinions thats all fine and good but kindly think before you post a few seconds pause before typing or rereading your post before submiting it is all it really takes.Shoot I'm likely to be in trouble for being blunt here but as an adult knowing that a growing number of children are using the sight for educational purposes I would be less then responiable if I posted somthing that casued there parents who were walking by the computer to decide this isn't a very good place for their child to learn about herps. Many many people have put a great amout of time and effort in turning this forum into a great place to learn and share information. It would be sad that a few could damage that for the rest of the sight. So only one suggestion that might help maybe make the quarintine room 18+ or set up a place that is age limted nothing aghist our younger members but there is nothing wrong with being young that a few years wont change and sometimes adults just need to be allowed to speak freely. Let's all make this a really easy adjustment and just regulate ourselves and we won't have much to worry about really. Perosnal responisblity is the hardest thing to learn and except but It's what makes you and adult.

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Originally Posted by McAdry

So only one suggestion that might help maybe make the quarintine room 18+ or set up a place that is age limted

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Great idea. I am all for that.

The only problem with age limitation is it is VERY easy to lie and change you birthday. That idea seems almost impossible to enforce.

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Originally Posted by Brimstone111888

The only problem with age limitation is it is VERY easy to lie and change you birthday. That idea seems almost impossible to enforce.

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Add on that they must be a member for a few months first (unless they are posting in a thread that gets moved) before admittance to QT...?

ahh yes it might be a bit hard to enforce but in the end, most of the time with a little time and effort one can tell the general age of the poster through how they post and or type not always,but most to the time. Oh and well it's really simple to enforce violation is simply a ban from the site.This is just my opinion I'm shure those that run the techincal part's of this forum could come up with some way to do it. Again bascily it comes back to self discipline and self requlation,and a personal sense of responsiblity.

I suppose im missing something here... where do you see if you have infractions? When will they actually be put into effect (or have they already)? :rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by AshleyB

I suppose im missing something here... where do you see if you have infractions? When will they actually be put into effect (or have they already)? :rolleye2:

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They went into effect as soon as this thread was posted. You'll see infractions under the member's avatar on a post near the green rep boxes (or in their profile) - I think.

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They went into effect as soon as this thread was posted. You'll see infractions under the member's avatar on a post near the green rep boxes (or in their profile)

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I think they're still deciding. As I said before, I hope they stay private. I guess we'll see soon.

I think the QT room should have a certain amount of posts and months a member limit. But not age. I enjoy the spicy threads! And vents, and funny jokes. And why do adults need soap box time any more than younger people. I have a whole list of people and things to gripe and complain about...

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Originally Posted by AshleyB

I suppose im missing something here... where do you see if you have infractions? When will they actually be put into effect (or have they already)? :rolleye2:

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Just look at my name.. Youll find it LMhineyO!! Thats allowed right?:weirdface

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Just look at my name.. Youll find it LMhineyO!! Thats allowed right?:weirdface

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LOL!!!

:8:

Ok i noticed we now have a "infractions" section under our user names.I will use JASBALLS as an example here(since i noticed he has 1 :O.It says 1 then(92) what is the 92?? :confused: