Is there a Morph you will never own/breed due to genetics?

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I'm just wondering how many people who have opined and posted their theories about spiders listened to what Kevin had to say about them on Reptile Radio?

And yes - I will keep and breed spiders!

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What did he say?

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Originally Posted by pfan151

It may sound wierd, but I am actually a little more ok with small physical problems then I am with physiological problems.

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:banana:Lol! I couldn't disagree more! I love the crazies!!!:banana: Spiders are awesome! I accept any creature what ever its faults. yeah they were born a little different, more power to it!

I don't see what the big deal is?

Heather asked a question and many of us posted our opinions as well as the reasons for those opinions.

Robin, I did not hear what Kevin had to say on reptile radio. Is there a way to go back and listen to it?

I have to admit that his reluctance to shed light on this issue when spiders were still selling for a couple grand each doesn't lend much credibility to what he might have to say on the subject but I would like to understand his thinking behind the mess he created.

I respect many breeders that work with spiders, and that is a long list, but in reference to Heathers original ? I personally don't care for them simply because of the neuro issues. That is my choice to make, much like the overwhelming majority have the to right to choose to work with them.

Some people seem to be taking this waaay too personal, and it is not.

You like spiders, cool breed them and be responsible about how you sell your offspring.

If you don't like them or any other morph, cool breed the bazzilion other morphs that are out there and also be responsible about how you sell your offspring.

Yes I will keep and breed my Biak GTPs, even though many chondro keepers don't like thier hostile temperment.......... do I take it personal when people bash the bitey Biaks......... naaaaaaah I love'em anyway but I am not in denial about their nasty ways even if there are a few exceptions to the rule. If I have better luck next year with breeding them, I feel it is only right for potential buyers to know that Biaks are well know for their fiesty temperment so they can make the best choice for them. I don't have to do that, but I feel like a more responsible breeder if I try to help someone even if it is the type of reaserch that they should have done on their own.

While psycho biaks are not the same thing as neuro challenged spiders, it is the only example I could think of to show the type of disclosure that I feel spider breeders should excercise when selling their offspring.

can someone let me know what a spider wobble is? sounds fun...sounds like next big rap hit! do the spider wobble the spider wobble the spider wobble do the spider wobble

and imma get a spider soon for bumblebees, wobbly or not......to dooooope. caramels havent really been on my list any way and i read that their kinked, so ill prolly stay away from those unless I need one one day for a crazy combo, but not jus pure caramels.

Didn't read the whole thread, but for me I won't touch caramels...

I like spiders and am more than comfortable with the spinning. I spent a long time reading about them and following the threads first though.

Only had to see a few kinked caramels to make my mind up on them. And to see the crosses that look great, but after all that time and energy and investment seeing a kinked "such and such caramel"... not worth it.

(especially when an animal is obviously kinked and the person posting the pic is stating... no it isn't).

No way, no how, won't touch them.

Bruce

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Originally Posted by pfan151

What did he say?

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Here you go - it was a great show!

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/reptile...evin-from-NERD

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Originally Posted by karbogast

Robin, I did not hear what Kevin had to say on reptile radio. Is there a way to go back and listen to it?

I have to admit that his reluctance to shed light on this issue when spiders were still selling for a couple grand each doesn't lend much credibility to what he might have to say on the subject but I would like to understand his thinking behind the mess he created.

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The mess he created? His reluctance to shed light on the issue? Did you happen to call him to ask him to shed light when you first saw your spider wobble? Care to elaborate? Kevin has answered any question I've personally ever put to him, without reluctance or hesitation.


The link to the show is in the post above.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Is breeding any animal in captivity really ever in that animals interest? I don't see how it could be?

Just some food for thought.

-adam

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This is an exceptionally good point! Looks like a lot of people glazed over it.

Just as devils advocate here what is the advantage to the snake for breeding it in captivity? Does it live longer? Are we trying to breed a dying species to reintroduce it to the wild?

Only 3 reasons come to mind if no advantage for the actual animal being bred can be thought of:
1. Profit
2. Education (In which case after breeding once or twice you would think you would have learned the whole process or shown it to a young one.)
3. Experimentation (With experimentation you get unwanted results, what do you do with those? Experimentation also generally involves a stated end result or end game senerio. What is end game or is this reason actually a cover for reason 1?)

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Here you go - it was a great show!

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/reptile...evin-from-NERD

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Thanks for the link. He has a point on the out going thing, as one of the things I likeed about the spiders I used to have is their more inquisitive personalities then again if you want inquisitve how about working with a species of snake that doesn't need a neuro defect to be out going. All he really does is offer the same justifacations for promoting spiders despite the issues with them. And if I didn't think he was full of it before, I sure do now as he once said there was no pastel in the inferno and now his story has changed. If I get time I will find the post where he claims there is no pastel in it. Bottom line, at the time I bought my spider Kevin was still denying there was a problem with them and just kept promoting the unique personality, and when Ralph spoke up he said that RDR was out to hurt his bussiness.

I just don't trust him, and just cause he was the first to produce spiders doesn't make him a hero, it makes him the originator of one of the most contraversial morphs out. Kevys claim in the interview that he is viewed as the root of all evil in the "business" is down right comical and another attempt at deflection.

All that interview did was confirm my suspicion of him and his motives.

But this thread is not about him, it is about what morphs we chose not to work with and why.

So once again, spiders - neuro.

Honestly I have no desire to work with a bazzillion different morphs. I am working towards Super pastel Fire Yellowbellies and the combos inbetween and that should about cover it for ball pythons for me.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

The mess he created? His reluctance to shed light on the issue? Did you happen to call him to ask him to shed light when you first saw your spider wobble? Care to elaborate? Kevin has answered any question I've personally ever put to him, without reluctance or hesitation.


The link to the show is in the post above.

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Robin, at the time I got my spider in 2005, there wasn't as much know publicly and when it was brought up on KS or other boards Kevin quickly dismissed it as their quirky personalities. Seeing as he probably had access to more spiders than anyone else there was little reason to doubt him.

Yes, now that spiders are about $150 a pop, he is more than willing to be open and honest about the issue. To me that says a lot about a persons character or lack of it.

Why are you taking my opinion of spiders so personal?

Should I refrain from posting on issues that are controversial and stick to the "nice snake threads" ?

Or should I do the "hit and run" method of "hey look at the great new snake I hatched" and dissapear till the next great thing hatches? ...LOL

I am not the only one with this opinion of Kevin and his spiders, but at the same time I am not trying to dicourage people from breeding them or belittle those that like them. I am just tyring to provide some backgroung on a subject that not every member of BP.net is aware of, and try and give my full story on why I chose not to work with spiders. I am trying to be "freindly" about it because I understand that many people like spiders, I just wish the spider people would open their minds and realize that our reasons for not liking them are just as valid.