Spider wobble in full effect

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Originally Posted by Heathertoft

Okay, I'm not gonna quote folk as there's too much to quote, but correct me if I'm wrong...to the people comparing Spiders to "People Morphs," aren't humans...mmm, a SOCIAL MAMMAL as opposed to a moderatly solitary REPTILE???

I am not worried about one snake making fun of or shunning another for their odd wobble. ;)

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I didn't notice anyone worrying about how other snakes would make fun of spiders, but rather that getting around as they do makes their life harder.

What is hard for them (like striking, simply going in a straight line, etc), other snakes can do easily. The survival and breeding instincts are still there and the mutation does not get in the way of that in a captive setting, but when the brain tells their body to go in a straight line and they aren't getting the correct response, it is likely on some level stressful.

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Originally Posted by Delilah

I do not mean to offend anyone. I use human examples so that humans can relate. And certainly I am not meaning these examples literally. Just as illustrations.

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I know you didn't mean to offend anyone, and to be honest I wasn't much offended by your metaphors. But, illustrations or not, the correlation is still weak in my opinion--apples and oranges. I'm not at all against anyone trying to breed out the Spider-wobble, so I hope you're not taking it that way. I really don't like how this is heading in a "good-guy/bad-guy" direction. You're not a hero for trying to defend your goal, and others are not villains for questioning it. Other breeders have of course tried, and failed at the same goal. It wasn't out of complete irresponsibility or lack of effort that Spiders ended up with wobble. The original import had it, was bred, some of the offspring had bad wobble, others barely had any. If speculation doesn't kill me here, I'd imagine the ones with little wobble were bred to normals, and some of the offspring had little wobble, others had bad wobble--those with less were bred to normal females, some of the offspring had little wobble, others had bad wobble, and so on. You make some of us out to be heartless people for not giving it a shot ourselves, or questioning if you completely understand the issue. We're standing on the shoulders of other more experienced, reputable, and privileged breeders here, and no one is anymore happy with the wobble than you are. If you have the time, resources, and wherewithal to dedicate your Ball Python hobby specifically to trying to prove that the wobble can be line bred out, no one is going to be against you. All those that are not jumping behind you are saying is that it has been tried before, by people with more time, resources, and wherewithal than most of us have, and the conclusion was it couldn't be line bred out. Again, you're not a hero for trying it, no one is a villain for not stressing over it and relying on the experience of reputable people. Likewise, you're not a villain for getting behind the cause, and no one here thinks you are. No one likes to feel belittled though, especially those with a great deal more experience in the hobby than yourself, and a little humility is always a strong attribute for all of us to carry with us. Anywho, again, I wish you the best of luck, I really do. If you somehow make a miracle happen, I will be the first in line to thank you.

Cheers,
-Matt

i wasn't to sure how bad there wobble was until i saw these vids, i will definately own one in the future, extreme wobble or not those snakes all looked awesome,healthy and happy to me, which i think is the most important aspect of owning any herps "defected" or "flawless" i lovem all and if i had the space would keep them too!:)

Staying out of the debate, but my 1200g male spider doesn't do anything like that at any time, even feeding. It appears that he goes exactly the way his brain tells him to, however he's not perfect. His head does vibrate at random times, not all the time and not always at feeding. I always thought this was what was being refered to as the spider wobble. I guess it's just different degrees in different snakes, as was stated earlier.

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Originally Posted by Delilah

This is a video I just posted. Seems this is a good place to link it.
"This is my "wobble-less" spider girl. I have never seen her wobble, but after close observation, ... she does have problems. Take this video for example. Every snake has a bad day, especially young snakes- but this is an adult. This is not the first time this has happened to her. (Though I don't recall her ever giving up before) She tries to eat her rat from the wrong end, can't seem to find the head at all, then seems to lose it altogether. After this video she gave up and would not even strike at a fresh meal. This problem has also been observed in my bumblebees (pastel spider).
I know these problems could be bred out if breeders would take an interest in breeding only the best, strongest and healthiest snakes and STOP breeding the deformed and retarded just to make a quick buck...."

YouTube - The Bambi Project

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I have a normal with some subtle white that may be spider. This video of yours is exactly how my normal eats. She is a sweetheart and wouldn't give her up. I only have her 2 months and she is my 1st snake. My son & I watch her eat and we commented its like she is retarded or stupid. Sometimes takes her 3 hours to down a meal and I feel bad she has to work so hard at it. At least I know it is not unheard of for a snake to eat like this.

I know the premise is that all spiders wobble, but I have two and i have one that corkscrews, but I also have a pastel and YB that do the same thing, and ALL my snakes get shaky at feeding time... but naturally I notice it more in my spiders, because they are spiders.

My second girl has zero wobble.

bruce

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Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

I know the premise is that all spiders wobble, but I have two and i have one that corkscrews, but I also have a pastel and YB that do the same thing, and ALL my snakes get shaky at feeding time... but naturally I notice it more in my spiders, because they are spiders.

My second girl has zero wobble.

bruce

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I have never seen pastels or YB's with wobbles-is it possible that they may have some spider in there somewhere or are we starting to get inbreeding problems? The wobble is the reason why I will never buy a spider and would certainly never want to breed one.

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Originally Posted by Delilah

The slight "wobble" you see with this spider when she releases her prey is not unlike what I observe in normals when feeding or targeting. The spin she does is a typical releasing maneuver to get her teeth out of the prey so she can get it out of her mouth. But I'm not saying this spider is free of the defect. Quite the opposite in fact. I am saying that what I thought was a wobble-free spider does in fact have problems that I think are connected to the wobble defect.
I am not going to let the fear of disappointment keep me from trying to breed out the defect. I believe it is a worthwhile venture. I love the spider trait as much as anyone, but I sure would love it more without the defect! And you know what, if you could ask the snake, I think she would agree.

D :)

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I've already seen it said a dozen times on this and countless other forums by people with more knowledge about these animals and genetics in general, than I could ever hope to have so I'll say this. In short, you will not breed the defect out of the morph. It is attached to the spider gene.

This morph is one of the most OUT bred morphs there is, because of the awesome/beautiful combinations it produces. Those outb red combinations STILL contain the wobble. There is NO WAY to breed the wobble out. again, it is genetically attached to the spider morph no matter what you do.

The wobble is NO reason to stop breeding this animal to either produce more spiders or other genetic combinations because so far as I've seen and read in my research on these animals this "defect" is very rarely drastic enough to disable them from eating or living in general comfort.

I've got a spider, he wobbles. He doesn't corkscrew or have any tendency to turn himself upside down, etc.. but his wobble is super noticeable when he gets excited about feeding and he has only EVER missed the first strike once since I got him at 90 days old.

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Originally Posted by shaunb79

I guess its just me but that is the reason I will never have a Spider in my collection!:confused:

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That makes two of us. I just get a "wrong" feeling when I watch that.

Is this essentially a sign of mental/physical retardation?

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Originally Posted by BigBlue56

That makes two of us. I just get a "wrong" feeling when I watch that.

Is this essentially a sign of mental/physical retardation?

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Far from that. It is simply a neurological issue that the cause of has yet to be pin-pointed. It only very rarely has an affect on the animal that inhibits them in every day living in the care of responsible owners. I have a spider, he wobbles a bit but not to a staggering degree. It has no ill affect on his ability to strike, kill and eat.