Husbandry vent

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The vent is people saying you can't deviate from the care sheets. That is what I have been saying all along. I said keeping snakes like the care sheet says will be fine for your snake. However people need to know you can deviate from it.

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No one says you can't deviate from caresheet seasoned keepers will answer any type of advanced husbandry questions when people ask however they will still recommend the same proven to work optimal setting to new owners that experience issues. Why because it's proven to work with new owner. Guiding people with issues is different than opening peoples mind to alternative ways to keep animals.

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Yet as you can see some are stuck on the care sheets and will not even consider anything else.

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So??? If what they do works for them they don't have to try anything else do they?

Because I like to try new things and experiment it does not mean everyone should, and if they don't I fail to see how it's an issue? Does it affect you? Because the way others keep their animals sure does not affect me :gj:

If I was tired of people keeping their animal any other way than the one found in caresheet I think I would not be on a forum if it bothered me that much because a lot do and if they are comfortable with that and it works for their animal there is nothing wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Well, good luck getting anyone to say what you want how you want them to say it. I've been trying for over ten years and haven't made any progress. Thing is...as soon as you convince one person to be more flexible on an idea, someone else new joins up with the same old inflexibility...on ANY topic, not just BP husbandry.

You'll see whatever you choose to focus on. There are plenty of folks here who advocate for flexibility on husbandry methods, while at the same time, coaxing beginners with the simplest "tried-and-true" methods. But if you focus on the stuff that irritates you, then it will seem like that's all that anyone is doing.

Sometimes, it really, really feels to me like all anyone ever does here is complain about everyone else. Of course that isn't true...but if the center of your back itches and you can't reach it...all of a sudden, it's the only thing you can focus on, even though the rest of your body feels perfectly fine. There's always something going on that we don't like. We can choose to focus all our attention on it...or we can choose to focus on the positive side of things that is ALSO always there. And we can also choose to be a part of the solution to our irritants, or we can choose to complain about them and hope someone else figures out how to fix them.

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I agree with you. Some people seem to think I am trying to make people change their ways. I am not doing that at all. I am just trying to say there are other ways to do things. In the end it is all about the animals involved. If this whole thing just gets a couple people thinking about other ways of doing things and debating the way we all do things then it is a win for everyone. There is not one person in this world that knows everything about ball pythons. That is why debates are good and listening to other views is good.

You were nice in the other thread so I won't go nuts here. So some people don't deviate from care sheets. You've made your point. You've also stated again and again what you think is proper husbandry. So now what is your further objective? Get everyone to agree with your methods?

Yes, there is more than one way to skin the cat. We know that already.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

Quick question. You seem to be referencing their natural habitat quite a bit, while I don't own a BP I personally try to replicate the natural habitiat of the reptiles I keep, that being said what type of enclosure are all of your BP's in?

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I was talking temps and day/night cycle only.

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Originally Posted by hungba

You were nice in the other thread so I won't go nuts here. So some people don't deviate from care sheets. You've made your point. You've also stated again and again what you think is proper husbandry. So now what is your further objective? Get everyone to agree with your methods?

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No I do not want anyone to agree with my methods. I just want people to open their minds to other things. I am not trying to change anyone methods. What works for one does not work for all.

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Originally Posted by bondo

I was talking temps and day/night cycle only.

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Judging by that answer I am going to assume (until you correct me) that you are using a rack system. That being said your entire arguement on temps based on the temps in Africa is a little irrivalent being that a plastic tub with some wood chips and a water bowl is nothing like their native habitat. There is no way you can create the temp fluctuations in a rack system that an entire area in the wild sees on a daily basis. There are tons of variables in the wild that are eliminated in an enclosure. You can't make bold statements regarding natural habitat then say I am only referring to specific things.

When I'm talking with experienced keepers I have an understanding that they may do something that isn't typically recommended on caresheets, but when I'm talking to new keepers (and this goes for any species I keep) I will state it as though the caresheet cannot or should not be deviated from. This is because experimentation and questioning tried-and-true methods can be really dangerous if someone is doing it without much experience.

For me, there are a lot of husbandry topics that fall into the "If you have to ask, the answer is no" category. For example, if someone asked me if they could keep their BP with an ambient temperature in the 60's I would tell them absolutely not, the snakes will get RIs, because just asking that question that way is a pretty strong indicator that someone is new and looking for ways to save on heating equipment. Note I'm not saying that YOU shouldn't do it; it clearly works for you. But the difference is you didn't come here asking if you could do it that way, you came here telling everyone else why exactly it's okay to do it that way.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that frankly, not everyone has the experience or interest level in this hobby to question and debate caresheets. It may be annoying when someone who's had a BP for two weeks tries to tell you you're killing snakes by keeping them at low temps, but it's safer than that new keeper deciding it's okay to experiment with keeping their snake in the 60's without the experience to do it safely. With any species you work with you're always going to get 16 year olds with their first exotic pet coming in and trying to tell experienced keepers that they know best; that is never going to change.

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Originally Posted by bondo

No I do not want anyone to agree with my methods. I just want people to open their minds to other things. I am not trying to change anyone methods. What works for one does not work for all.

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Well people DO open their mind to other things. Just not YOUR thing. You say you aren't trying to make people agree with you, but you are just continually arguing for your methods, which judging from the response isn't really popular. You aren't really saying anything to get people to open their minds to alternatives. Quite to the contrary, you are just continually saying why you are right, but tagging a line "but if it works for you, ok". Ironically, you seem to be quite close minded yourself.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

Judging by that answer I am going to assume (until you correct me) that you are using a rack system. That being said your entire arguement on temps based on the temps in Africa is a little irrivalent being that a plastic tub with some wood chips and a water bowl is nothing like their native habitat. There is no way you can create the temp fluctuations in a rack system that an entire area in the wild sees on a daily basis. There are tons of variables in the wild that are eliminated in an enclosure. You can't make bold statements regarding natural habitat then say I am only referring to specific things.

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Well I don't have access to termite mounds or the weather needed outside. Maybe I could put termites in my basement so they can make mounds. I can only do things that are in my power to do. There is no way to reproduce Africa in northern WI.