The Official Birth Defect Documentary *Graphic picture warning*

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Originally Posted by Rickys_Reptiles

OMG. This is enough of a reason for me to never buy from www.strictlyballs.ca ever. disgusting. :no:

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Ricky, that is not his web site. He's .ca in Ontario, Canada. The .com you linked to is in Iowa, USA. Different person and business.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Ricky, that is not his web site. He's .ca in Ontario, Canada. The .com you linked to is in Iowa, USA. Different person and business.

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asked a mod to fix it. ty.

Still can't believe it. Who freezes live animals?!?! :angered:

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Originally Posted by sharkrocket

I would like to hear more about super black pastels from other breeders. We are planning to go for super black pastels in a year or two, and we have our hearts set on an all black snake. I hope to hear about deformities relating to them from others. I am really sorry to hear about your experience TJ, but hopefully it can help others.

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I will be the first to say that since my post, I have seen plenty of healthy, perfect looking super cinnamons and cinnamon x black pastels. Mark Mandic was one the breeders who showed me more than a handful of his own hatchlings and he has not (to my knowledge) produced any misshapen or deformed ones. Although I did not see any issues with temp during incubation, I can not say with certainty that there wasn't a day while I was away from my home that the incubator crept up past 90.F although it is unlikely. I would have to assume something went wrong during incubation. I may attempt another Cinny combo x Cinny female in the future and heavily document the incubation process while keeping temps at 88.F instead of the 89.F to 90.F that is typical of most breeders. That should give me a final answer.

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Originally Posted by Rickys_Reptiles

Still can't believe it. Who freezes live animals?!?! :angered:

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I agree.
But unfortunately, a lot of people still euthanize reptiles via Freezer. Its an old school method that has been an accepted practice for generations.

Its only through more recent studies and education that people have learned that it is inhumane, slow, and painful. And sadly a lot of keepers are still ignorant of that.


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Agreed it had •ONLY• been what since the mid 80s that that has been known to be a very poor option. 30 years, perhaps it is time to update your Vic20 too...


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Originally Posted by satomi325

We all know that birth defects and other issues will be present when producing any kind of animal in large numbers. This is not a thread asking which defect is associated with what morph.
I wanted to start a thread to document the numbers associated with birth defects.

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Please post the following when reporting a defect:
1) Morph - Unknown
2) The defect - 1 w/deformed eyes, 1 died in egg
3) Possible reasoning for the defect - Possible incubation temp issue
4) The parental pairing - Spider Dam x Enchi Sire
5) Total number of clutches and/or hatchlings you have produced - Produced one or two clutches a year since '08 w/no previous deformed babies.
6) Photos - See below
7) Any other information that you wish to include. (Maybe post how many defective hatchlings you have produced to date) - 7 eggs total were laid which resulted in 1 normal, 3 Enchi's, a Stingerbee and the deformed babies. The orange baby hatched out alive but only lived for about 3 days. All other babies were perfectly normal. It was the first clutch for the Enchi Sire and, I believe, 2nd clutch for the Spider Dam.

This is taken from my original post on 7/17/12 when they hatched...

"I think what may have affected these two guys was a temp problem that happened a few weeks prior to their pipping date. We had a bad storm move through several weeks ago (anyone on the East Coast knows the storm I'm referring to) and we lost power for about 20 hours. I thought I had maintained a fairly consistent temp, but apparently not. Once the temp in the incubator started dropping, I began trying to use some heat packs to bring it back up and maintain a reasonably constant temp. I thought I did fairly well, but I guess not. I'm thinking my Accurites weren't a big help as they both vary about 5 degrees. I usually rely on my Herpstat for the most accurate reading, but without power I had to rely on the Accurites.

I'm hoping these last two pull through. The orange guy/girl left a pretty sizable yolk sack behind so it may be touch and go until first feeding. The other still shows no signs of coming out. I guess at this point all I can do is wait. Also hoping my other clutch hasn't been affected. They are about two weeks away from hatch date and all eggs look great. Still big and plump but starting to dimple a tiny bit. Fingers crossed for them!"

Second clutch I mentioned above hatched w/no problems. Same Enchi Sire also.

This guy only lasted 3 days...

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...s/IMG_4869.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...s/IMG_4878.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...s/IMG_4613.jpg

Still in the egg...

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...s/IMG_4612.jpg


This is the other baby that died in the egg...

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...s/IMG_4795.jpg

I just had my first experience with a deformity. Pairing was fire to pinstripe. 8 eggs. Clutch was incubated at 89 degrees and began to pip on day 55, 7 had fully hatched by the 3rd day and one egg was unpipped. I slit it a bit and the baby inside looked... odd. I gave it one more day and them opened it more, it was weirdly fused. I was prepared to euthanize by destroying the brain matter but when I actually removed it I found it had died in the egg. Here are the pics,

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-q...27s+Clutch+-+3
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-N...27s+Clutch+-+8
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-g...7s+Clutch+-+11
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-I...7s+Clutch+-+13
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1...7s+Clutch+-+15
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-K...7s+Clutch+-+16
It's spine was very kinked, it went in a zigzag like pattern.

All the rest of the clutch seem perfectly healthy.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-c...o/IMG_2052.JPG
I did not have any temperature spikes or drops so far as I'm aware. The clutch that hatched before this one was fine and I'll watch the clutch due to hatch later this month.

Edit: the dam was a breeding loan from a friend so I'm not sure I'll be breeding her again. This was her first clutch. Sire has fathered many clutches, this is my second clutch ever so far and he sired both.

Are these caused by environmental factors, or are they from poor genetics?? (or both??)

I know most "birth defects" (usually just runty size) in my mice are caused by genetic factors, and only a handful from poor diet/maternal neglect; I would imagine it is different in herps??

I believe both, it can be one or the other or both at once.

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Ignore me just subbing this thread so I don't lose it.