Who owns guns and you carry?

Were gonna have to poll the jury but I believe adding thanks is considered a post Lang.

Sharing support or approval by actively performing an action within the thread= Post

Maybe you should have said comment. But I know how you like to confuse words. I'm sure that's what it was.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

Easy fix to accidental and/or drunken idiocy - Lock your doors! I don't carry (but intend to eventually). However, I always lock my doors and close my garage. If someone is mysteriously in my house, they will meet the business end of my baseball bat BEFORE I ask them why they are there!

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Careful! We don't need bats banned too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

Careful! We don't need bats banned too.

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;) No way - it's America's official pastime! Even if bats aren't actually allowed in stadiums anymore!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

I have to lay low on New Years Eve. Sounds like a freaking war going on.

What do you guys think of Sig Sauer?
I was thinking of a P250 or P229

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My agency carry/issue weapon is a Sig P220. Great guns and very well made but HEAVY! Ours are only single stack with 8 rounds versus the Glock 21, which is quite a bit lighter with a larger carry capacity. Another drawback to the Sigs is whatever they use to treat their metal with; not sure if it's Parkerized or what but if the humidity is above 20%, you'll start getting rust. I take care of and maintain my weapons religiously, as my life or those of my friends/someone else might depend on how well it functions and in spite of that, they rust. They're well made and reliable but if I had my choice, I'd take an HK or a Glock over them for a carry weapon, especially for concealed due to the weight issue. The weight of the gun, not my weight...hahahahaha!

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Originally Posted by barbie.dragon

I definitely agree. Hell I've had drunk friends accidentally going into the wrong house in themiddle of the night. (I have no idea how he got in to the housel I would be horrifie
ed if someone thought "oh my neighbor is being robbed. Let's shoot them"

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

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There are a two issues here.

1. She has had FRIENDS(more than one) do this.

2. Has no idea how this friend got in. A FRIEND would tell you the details. If they left that out it was probably because the way they got in was bad.

Or

3. The friend doesn't remember how he got in and left without checking it out and making sure they did not damage the property while being stupid while drunk. Therefore breaking the law and not paying the damage.


I saw a drunk run from one house and kick the front door in on another. Then it turned out he didn't belong to either house. Who would not be scared in this situation and act. Shooting him would be justified.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

Think about this.

You see a man dressed in black crawl out of your neighbors window. You can see they are taking items but your not sure what. Maybe stolen guns to be used in other crimes, maybe just jewelry and a playstation. Not sure but you know its property.

You confront them and tell then to stop. They don't and they run away.

You call the police and they check on your neighbor. They find that they were killed in a struggle with the intruder. Now with nothing to go on but your statement of "a man dressed in black" (We call that "the usual" since that's all we usually get), and not knowing for sure what was taken solving this crime is near impossible.

Despite what CSI shows do on tv we are a for way from that in the real world.

Now back up a bit.

You confront thm and tell them to stop. They don't and they get shot.

You call the police and they check on your neighbor. They find that they were killed in a struggle with the intruder. Now with the criminal dead or in the hospital we know who did it. If they are dead they will never do it again. If just wounded we at least can send them to court for their crimes.


My point is you never know for certain that the criminal is not going to harm you or if they have already harmed another. But you can be sure that if they are not stopped they will commit more crimes. Maybe the next time against you.

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Well this is a bit different scenario than I was talking about, because you added in the fact that this guy has already killed.

I still don't think a criminal should be shot for JUST stealing things, even if they are guns. I see what you're trying to say here, but I'm commenting more on the idea that Mr. Joe Blow saw some guy running away with his TV and that he for some reason has the right to shoot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

So drunk you go in the wrong house? Seriously? How does that fit in the convo at all? That belongs on the "Worlds Dumbest" shows.

If you get shot because you are so drunk you go into the wrong house you deserve it.

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Not going to lie, I've gone to the wrong house (when I lived in a house) AND wrong building before. They all look the same and I was new to the areas both times.

I hope I'm not one of the "Worlds Dumbest" because I'm headed off to teach this year!!

:oops:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

;) No way - it's America's official pastime! Even if bats aren't actually allowed in stadiums anymore!

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Only until it gets replaced by futbol, i mean soccer. At least Houston soccer team wins stuff. Lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CatandDiallo

Well this is a bit different scenario than I was talking about, because you added in the fact that this guy has already killed.

I still don't think a criminal should be shot for JUST stealing things, even if they are guns. I see what you're trying to say here, but I'm commenting more on the idea that Mr. Joe Blow saw some guy running away with his TV and that he for some reason has the right to shoot.




Not going to lie, I've gone to the wrong house (when I lived in a house) AND wrong building before. They all look the same and I was new to the areas both times.

I hope I'm not one of the "Worlds Dumbest" because I'm headed off to teach this year!!

:oops:

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That's the issue. You have a second to decide what to do with a small piece of the puzzle.Everything would be easy if we had the whole story, which the news rarely gives. Then you have all the time you need to Monday morning quarterback it and say it was wrong. Think outside the box and think about what could go through your mind as your dealing with a shoot don't shoot situation.

Yea the guy walking down the street with a stolen tv didn't need to be shot but no body here said he does. However coming out of the window could be a different story.

I guess I pay closer attention to detail because I have never tried to enter the wrong house or apartment. Still not budging though. If you get shot or beat for it, its still your fault.

For the record I would rather be shot than beat with a bat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CatandDiallo

Well this is a bit different scenario than I was talking about, because you added in the fact that this guy has already killed.

I still don't think a criminal should be shot for JUST stealing things, even if they are guns. I see what you're trying to say here, but I'm commenting more on the idea that Mr. Joe Blow saw some guy running away with his TV and that he for some reason has the right to shoot.




Not going to lie, I've gone to the wrong house (when I lived in a house) AND wrong building before. They all look the same and I was new to the areas both times.

I hope I'm not one of the "Worlds Dumbest" because I'm headed off to teach this year!!

:oops:

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As an officer, I would agree with you regarding the property theft versus deadly force part of what you're saying. I (and all law enforcement, for that matter) operate under very clear guidelines of when we can and cannot use deadly force. We have departmental/agency policies, state law, Federal law and case law handed down from common law back in the day in jolly old England, not to mention legal updates that come down each year if not more often from the Supreme Court of the United States from their rulings on officer-involved incidents. That said, I operate under a much more restrictive environment than what does a civilian. I have been involved in situations in which I would have been legally justified in using deadly force but chose not to. My goal as a police officer is to preserve life, end of story. If that means taking someone elses life to prevent them killing another, so be it. However, as soon as their deadly/aggressive actions cease, I am legally and morally obligated to render aid to them to try and prevent their demise. Consider that dichotomy for a second.

I agree with you in large part that no, deadly force to protect property is not justified without extenuating circumstances of some sort. This is a case by case basis and you can't make a blanket statement that if x, then y, therefore z. Are there situations where a forcible felony involving property is being committed in which deadly force is justified? Absolutely! In every situation? Not necessarily. I'm not a trigger happy bozo looking to carve notches on my gun or to get "street cred" for "wasting" someone but if my life or that of my family or the citizens of the state I have sworn to protect is in jeopardy, I'll do what I need to given the situation. I carry off duty for a very good reason, as does my wife: I arrest people. People don't tend to look or remember fondly those encounters. I knew the risks I was assuming when I signed up for this job and I'm okay with that. My family, however, is completely separate from the risks my job entails, as they didn't make that decision to put on a vest and badge while carrying a gun day in and day out. If criminals played fair, I wouldn't have a job or be needed. Until such time as they do, I'm going armed when I go out just on the off chance, however microscopic the possibility, that someone decides today is the day to get revenge on me via the ones I love most for some action I took against them in the course of my profession.

^
Thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate you taking the time to write this post out and I wouldn't consider you trigger happy.

Although, some people in this thread seem to be and that's what scares me.

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Originally Posted by CatandDiallo

^
Thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate you taking the time to write this post out and I wouldn't consider you trigger happy.

Although, some people in this thread seem to be and that's what scares me.

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People are people; good, bad or otherwise. Thanks for being willing to hear both sides of an argument and not trying to sensationalize things simply for the sake of starting an argument. :gj:

Would just parking a large APC or Tank in the front yard maybe dissuade people enough from attempting to break in?

Or just an automated laser sensor based 50 cal defense system like in the movie "Congo"....I think I'll go with the laser sensor based 50 cal defense system....

or a roof mounted R2D2 unit from the Navy....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OsirisRa32

Would just parking a large APC or Tank in the front yard maybe dissuade people enough from attempting to break in?

Or just an automated laser sensor based 50 cal defense system like in the movie "Congo"....I think I'll go with the laser sensor based 50 cal defense system....

or a roof mounted R2D2 unit from the Navy....

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I doubt it. Ever met a meth head who's been awake five days straight sampling the wares watching dirty movies and...wellllll...doing what meth heads do?! Good luck getting through to those folks, APC or not, lol!

To the people willing to answer.

Have you ever shot a gun? Any reason other than self defense.
Did this experience sway your opinion on guns? Good or bad
What was it that gave you your opinion?


I'm just curious to see your background with guns to try and understand your side more.

I come from a law enforcement family. I have been around guns all my life. I knew where they were when I was a kid and let them be. I started shooting young and started collecting guns then.

Being a country boy guns were a tool and hobby. I would hunt, shoot Skeet, and target shoot for fun. I didn't want to grow up and kill people they were just fun.

Now I carry one for work and depend on it. It is there when my backup may not be. Its still a tool though. I don't see it as a killing machine.

Being an officer has also showed me the dark side of humanity. I don't think of myself as paranoid but prepared. I have learned that you can be a victim anywhere at anytime. I just want to have the RIGHT available to protect myself and family.

I share the same view on the issues with saying the pledge or praying. If you don't want to say it, don't. But how does me doing it hurt you?

I just don't see how people who believe they have they right to not do something should be able to decide i don't have the right to do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

To the people willing to answer.

Have you ever shot a gun? Any reason other than self defense.
Did this experience sway your opinion on guns? Good or bad
What was it that gave you your opinion?


I'm just curious to see your background with guns to try and understand your side more.

I come from a law enforcement family. I have been around guns all my life. I knew where they were when I was a kid and let them be. I started shooting young and started collecting guns then.

Being a country boy guns were a tool and hobby. I would hunt, shoot Skeet, and target shoot for fun. I didn't want to grow up and kill people they were just fun.

Now I carry one for work and depend on it. It is there when my backup may not be. Its still a tool though. I don't see it as a killing machine.

Being an officer has also showed me the dark side of humanity. I don't think of myself as paranoid but prepared. I have learned that you can be a victim anywhere at anytime. I just want to have the RIGHT available to protect myself and family.

I share the same view on the issues with saying the pledge or praying. If you don't want to say it, don't. But how does me doing it hurt you?

I just don't see how people who believe they have they right to not do something should be able to decide i don't have the right to do it.

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Yes, I have. A shotgun, though. At a shooting range.

I was younger, it didn't sway my opinion any way because I see nothing wrong with having guns for hunting.

Most people here have grown up without guns, that's just the way it is. I live in the Toronto area, and the crime rates are extremely low for the size of the city. It's just not dangerous here.

Most of the gun violence that occurs here is by gangs, aiming at other gangs. It is EXTREMELY rare here for non-gang members to get caught up within it, but it has happened. However, as I've said, those are rare anomalies.

I just don't like guns, period. I see no need for hand guns to be in the hands of civilians. That's just it.

Praying or saying the pledge weren't designed to kill someone. Saying the pledge or praying can't kill someone. Guns were and do.

We just don't have the problems with gun violence like you guys do (neither does Ireland, Scotland, England, etc), and I think having extremely tight restrictions on guns is the main reason why.
There's a common denominator here: the less accessible guns are for the average Joe, the less gun violence there is. Period.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

To the people willing to answer.

Have you ever shot a gun? Any reason other than self defense.
Did this experience sway your opinion on guns? Good or bad
What was it that gave you your opinion?.

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- yes, no
- I no longer thought guns were "cool".
- not getting into it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CatandDiallo

Yes, I have. A shotgun, though. At a shooting range.

I was younger, it didn't sway my opinion any way because I see nothing wrong with having guns for hunting.

Most people here have grown up without guns, that's just the way it is. I live in the Toronto area, and the crime rates are extremely low for the size of the city. It's just not dangerous here.

Most of the gun violence that occurs here is by gangs, aiming at other gangs. It is EXTREMELY rare here for non-gang members to get caught up within it, but it has happened. However, as I've said, those are rare anomalies.

I just don't like guns, period. I see no need for hand guns to be in the hands of civilians. That's just it.

Praying or saying the pledge weren't designed to kill someone. Saying the pledge or praying can't kill someone. Guns were and do.

We just don't have the problems with gun violence like you guys do (neither does Ireland, Scotland, England, etc), and I think having extremely tight restrictions on guns is the main reason why.
There's a common denominator here: the less accessible guns are for the average Joe, the less gun violence there is. Period.

---

you may find this interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooa98FHuaU0

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CatandDiallo

Yes, I have. A shotgun, though. At a shooting range.

I was younger, it didn't sway my opinion any way because I see nothing wrong with having guns for hunting.

Most people here have grown up without guns, that's just the way it is. I live in the Toronto area, and the crime rates are extremely low for the size of the city. It's just not dangerous here.

Most of the gun violence that occurs here is by gangs, aiming at other gangs. It is EXTREMELY rare here for non-gang members to get caught up within it, but it has happened. However, as I've said, those are rare anomalies.

I just don't like guns, period. I see no need for hand guns to be in the hands of civilians. That's just it.

Praying or saying the pledge weren't designed to kill someone. Saying the pledge or praying can't kill someone. Guns were and do.

We just don't have the problems with gun violence like you guys do (neither does Ireland, Scotland, England, etc), and I think having extremely tight restrictions on guns is the main reason why.
There's a common denominator here: the less accessible guns are for the average Joe, the less gun violence there is. Period.

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I'm not by any means trying to put words into your mouth but if I understand your argument correctly and take it just a little further, you're essentially arguing the state has the right of parens patriae, yes? Or that "the state is my father" and as such is responsible for me and my actions whether to prevent them or to intervene against me or on my behalf when I or others make decisions? Using that logic, couldn't you apply that to anything? If people didn't drive cars, there would be no automobile deaths. If people didn't have snakes, there would be no invasive species problem in the Everglades or children being injured/killed through irresponsible ownership, etc. If we outlawed sugar, people wouldn't be fat. Again, I understand what you're saying but given what a spectacular job the government in my country is doing running things and has done for the amount of time I've been alive, I take exception to willfully giving up a right that is guaranteed to me with a woefully misplaced belief that the government will take care of me as their "child" and they as my "father". Thanks but no thanks to that. I am absolutely in support of responsible gun ownership for anyone that is legally allowed to, for whatever purpose they see fit to own such weapons rather than relying on Uncle Sam to tend to my wants and needs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CatandDiallo

Yes, I have. A shotgun, though. At a shooting range.

I was younger, it didn't sway my opinion any way because I see nothing wrong with having guns for hunting.

Most people here have grown up without guns, that's just the way it is. I live in the Toronto area, and the crime rates are extremely low for the size of the city. It's just not dangerous here.

Most of the gun violence that occurs here is by gangs, aiming at other gangs. It is EXTREMELY rare here for non-gang members to get caught up within it, but it has happened. However, as I've said, those are rare anomalies.

I just don't like guns, period. I see no need for hand guns to be in the hands of civilians. That's just it.

Praying or saying the pledge weren't designed to kill someone. Saying the pledge or praying can't kill someone. Guns were and do.

We just don't have the problems with gun violence like you guys do (neither does Ireland, Scotland, England, etc), and I think having extremely tight restrictions on guns is the main reason why.
There's a common denominator here: the less accessible guns are for the average Joe, the less gun violence there is. Period.

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Totally respect your opinion. I happen to be a gun lover and a huge proponent of the second amendment. I believe it is very hard to compare a country to another country directly. There are many factors that relate to america having a higher violent crime rate. Those are for a whole separate forum. I started enjoying firearms as a hunter and my passion grew from there.
Also not to be a pain but could you please back up your statement regarding 'less accessible guns are for the average joe, the less gun violence there is. Period' who is the average joe. Where are guns bought that are used in crimes? How many average joes commit crimes with a gun? I don't like vague comments that are said as factual statistics. That can be dangerous.
A gun has never aimed itself at a person and pulled its own trigger, remember that. An evil person who wishes to commit a crime will do it regardless. Think Oklahoma bombing, basic farm supplies. We need to fix people not guns.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by creepin

you may find this interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooa98FHuaU0

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Absolutely. And the disparity between the murder rate versus the violent crime rate as compiled by the FBI in their UCR data. Medical technology saves a lot of people who previously would have been in the morgue. That gives the appearance of the murder rate being lower and technically it is but when compared to the violent assault rates, there is a noticeable gap. We live in great times, sure but the safest times in in human history? I don't know that I'd buy that one.

I promise I'll get back to these responses later!

I'm swamped with school work (as usual) and don't have the time to respond to every one!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrLang

When I first posed my question I thought there would be one of 3 responses:

1. To carry your toys around with you to show off to the other boys and compare muzzle lengths

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Please stop calling guns "toys". Thanks!

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Originally Posted by seanjackmc

lol, i know of someone who almost died on a piece of broccoli, ever since then i have sworn off broccoli, i don't want to be the one who does die from an ill tempered vegetable.

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vile weed!!! :)

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Originally Posted by KMG

There are a two issues here.

1. She has had FRIENDS(more than one) do this.

2. Has no idea how this friend got in. A FRIEND would tell you the details. If they left that out it was probably because the way they got in was bad.

Or

3. The friend doesn't remember how he got in and left without checking it out and making sure they did not damage the property while being stupid while drunk. Therefore breaking the law and not paying the damage.


I saw a drunk run from one house and kick the front door in on another. Then it turned out he didn't belong to either house. Who would not be scared in this situation and act. Shooting him would be justified.

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I disagree shooting him would be justified unless he was a threat to your life. He has no idea how he got in the house. I'm thinking the homeowner didnt lock the door? He just fell asleep on the couch and the home owner didnt notice until they woke up. You seem like a logical person so you would asses the situation correct? We have to remember some if not alot of people aren't like that. All because you get frightened it doesnt mean you should shoot them. Maybe your perspective will change if a situation like this happens or almost happens to someone you know? I hope it doesn't though that would be awful.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by youbeyouibei

My agency carry/issue weapon is a Sig P220. Great guns and very well made but HEAVY! Ours are only single stack with 8 rounds versus the Glock 21, which is quite a bit lighter with a larger carry capacity. Another drawback to the Sigs is whatever they use to treat their metal with; not sure if it's Parkerized or what but if the humidity is above 20%, you'll start getting rust. I take care of and maintain my weapons religiously, as my life or those of my friends/someone else might depend on how well it functions and in spite of that, they rust. They're well made and reliable but if I had my choice, I'd take an HK or a Glock over them for a carry weapon, especially for concealed due to the weight issue. The weight of the gun, not my weight...hahahahaha!

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I have shot and held a Glock before and I'm pretty sure the Glock 17 gen3 might have been 4, fit my hand perfect.
I'm not sure if my first pistol would be my everyday carry anyway.
Now my Brother in Law who is an officer told me that a Glock is not the safest gun to carry because there is no safety.

His issued gun is a Glock and was just saying that he has seen this as a safety issue.

Thought on that?

It's going to be a long time because I just don't have the money for one right now anyway.

Thanks for input.

We need another thread for the drama.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

To the people willing to answer.

Have you ever shot a gun? Any reason other than self defense.
Did this experience sway your opinion on guns? Good or bad
What was it that gave you your opinion?


I'm just curious to see your background with guns to try and understand your sid more.

I come from a law enforcement family. I have been around guns all my life. I knew where they were when I was a kid and let them be. I started shooting young and started collecting guns then.

Being a country boy guns were a tool and hobby. I would hunt, shoot Skeet, and target shoot for fun. I didn't want to grow up and kill people they were just fun.

Now I carry one for work and depend on it. It is there when my backup may not be. Its still a tool though. I don't see it as a killing machine.

Being an officer has also showed me the dark side of humanity. I don't think of myself as paranoid but prepared. I have learned that you can be a victim anywhere at anytime. I just want to have the RIGHT available to protect myself and family.

I share the same view on the issues with saying the pledge or praying. If you don't want to say it, don't. But how does me doing it hurt you?

I just don't see how people who believe they have they right to not do something should be able to decide i don't have the right to do it.

---

I have never shot a gun or held a gun. But I am "pro gun". I want a handgun and go shooting but I have no idea on how I would go about that. I don't really know anyone with guns. I think guns are great in the right hands. I personally believe everyone should know how to shoot. Well almost everyone but how they shouls qualify I don't know.


Hmm reading the fact that you're a police officer makes sense.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CatandDiallo

Although, some people in this thread seem to be and that's what scares me.

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You keep saying this...

Can we see a show of hands of those in this thread who have accidentally shot someone they shouldn't have? I'll bet not a single one of us is raising our hand...you're scared of the wrong people imo...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sho220

you're scared of the wrong people imo...

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Yup, the average legal gun owning upstanding citizen is rarely to blame for a shooting. It's the low life's that have no respect or knowledge of what a weapon can do, that you need to worry about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CatandDiallo

I promise I'll get back to these responses later!

I'm swamped with school work (as usual) and don't have the time to respond to every one!

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Ahhh man excuses excuses! Lol Jk get your work done then come back to the party!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by barbie.dragon

I disagree shooting him would be justified unless he was a threat to your life. He has no idea how he got in the house. I'm thinking the homeowner didnt lock the door? He just fell asleep on the couch and the home owner didnt notice until they woke up. You seem like a logical person so you would asses the situation correct? We have to remember some if not alot of people aren't like that. All because you get frightened it doesnt mean you should shoot them. Maybe your perspective will change if a situation like this happens or almost happens to someone you know? I hope it doesn't though that would be awful.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

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See you added more facts to the story. If the guy was found asleep on the couch he stands a good chance of surviving. But coming through the door and walking around the house at night in the dark. Most people are going to think him a burglar and have the right to use force including deadly force.

If this happened to someone I knew I would be sad for them but I would hold nothing against the homeowner.

I know that is hard to believe but it is the truth. I think being an officer does give me a different way of viewing things but I believe it is because of what my career has exposed me too. I also think it is a good thing. I think eyes are open wider than most Americans living their peaceful life only knowing what the government and media tells them of the real world.


If you want to shoot you should look around for a shooting range that rents guns. This way you can shoot different kinds and calibers and find what you like without buying one to them find you dont like it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

I have shot and held a Glock before and I'm pretty sure the Glock 17 gen3 might have been 4, fit my hand perfect.
I'm not sure if my first pistol would be my everyday carry anyway.
Now my Brother in Law who is an officer told me that a Glock is not the safest gun to carry because there is no safety.

His issued gun is a Glock and was just saying that he has seen this as a safety issue.

Thought on that?

It's going to be a long time because I just don't have the money for one right now anyway.

Thanks for input.

We need another thread for the drama.

---

I Love my Glocks. The safe action system is good but no its not like a regular safety. Learning the proper techniques to deal with a pistol is needed for any pistol without them the number a safeties does not mater, accidents will happen.

I like guns without a external safety. They are easy to learn how to properly use by someone that will not use the pistol as much as I do. My fiance for example is not into guns, or snakes:tears:, but I have taught her how to shoot and use the guns in or home. She knows that when she grabs a Glock it is ready to go. Since people under stress forget things and hitting the safety off turns into a big deal when your trying to shoot an attacker, not having to deal with one is nice.

A Glock is also easy to break down and clean. Many people buy guns have guns and hardly clean them or don't clean them correctly because of the way they break down. You can not get much simpler than a Glock.

A break in during the night has more of a chance to end in violence. The criminal knows there is a chance the person is home. Could be more of a spur of the moment decision, money for drugs, rape etc.

A day time break in is going to be more of a professional criminal. Cases the house, knows your routine, waits for you to leave an he is in and out. Not looking for a fight.

Just throwing that out there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

I Love my Glocks. The safe action system is good but no its not like a regular safety. Learning the proper techniques to deal with a pistol is needed for any pistol without them the number a safeties does not mater, accidents will happen.

I like guns without a external safety. They are easy to learn how to properly use by someone that will not use the pistol as much as I do. My fiance for example is not into guns, or snakes:tears:, but I have taught her how to shoot and use the guns in or home. She knows that when she grabs a Glock it is ready to go. Since people under stress forget things and hitting the safety off turns into a big deal when your trying to shoot an attacker, not having to deal with one is nice.

A Glock is also easy to break down and clean. Many people buy guns have guns and hardly clean them or don't clean them correctly because of the way they break down. You can not get much simpler than a Glock.

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I love to clean my shotgun. Very easy to breakdown. I'll keep that in mind.

My biggest worry is home invasion because of the area I live in. So I feel pretty good with the 590 next to me.

I'll have to shop around when the time comes. Thanks for info.

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Have you ever shot a gun? Any reason other than self defense.

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Yes I first started shooting a riffle at age 11, I was at camp we went to a range, I then beg my mom to sign me up and I started competitive shooting. Turns out it made me more focused and more disciplined.

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Did this experience sway your opinion on guns? Good or bad

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See above, additionally I was raised around guns, I was probably an exception considering I was born and raised in France (and we all know how France view guns and gun ownership in general :rolleyes:)

I own 2 guns (those are mine not my hubby's) one is in the house for protection, I live way out in the country and I am married to someone who travels and I want to be able to protect myself should I have to.

I also carry, with my job I am often in a position where I do the closing, which means I often end up being the last person on the mall parking's lot, afterward I also go to the bank to make the nigh deposit. I have several locations some good some not so much and therefore I chose to carry.

Am I paranoid? Not one bit, I go out I am having fun, I enjoy being home even when alone but I am also prepared just in case.

Do I want to kill someone? Absolutely not but if I am put in a position where my life is threaten I will not hesitate to use my gun and defend myself.

If someone breaks into my house I will not hesitate to shoot, in a situation like this when every seconds count, trying to reason with someone who is likely armed and possibly on drugs is not the best course of action if you want to stay alive.

I would rather explain to the police why there is a guy in my house with a bullet in the chest than having the police explain to my husband what happened to me (whether it is rape, mugging or death)

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Originally Posted by KMG

A Glock is also easy to break down and clean. Many people buy guns have guns and hardly clean them or don't clean them correctly because of the way they break down. You can not get much simpler than a Glock.

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Springfield's XD-m's are also very easy to break down and clean. I hate cleaning my Walther...the take down lever is a pita...:rage:

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Originally Posted by KMG

To the people willing to answer.

Have you ever shot a gun? Any reason other than self defense.
Did this experience sway your opinion on guns? Good or bad
What was it that gave you your opinion?


I'm just curious to see your background with guns to try and understand your side more.

I come from a law enforcement family. I have been around guns all my life. I knew where they were when I was a kid and let them be. I started shooting young and started collecting guns then.

Being a country boy guns were a tool and hobby. I would hunt, shoot Skeet, and target shoot for fun. I didn't want to grow up and kill people they were just fun.

Now I carry one for work and depend on it. It is there when my backup may not be. Its still a tool though. I don't see it as a killing machine.

Being an officer has also showed me the dark side of humanity. I don't think of myself as paranoid but prepared. I have learned that you can be a victim anywhere at anytime. I just want to have the RIGHT available to protect myself and family.

I share the same view on the issues with saying the pledge or praying. If you don't want to say it, don't. But how does me doing it hurt you?

I just don't see how people who believe they have they right to not do something should be able to decide i don't have the right to do it.

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I have shot rifles, pistols (both revolver and semi) and shotguns...grew up bird and deer hunting with my dad and younger brother. Been around guns my whole life and definitely do not come from a law enforcement type family.

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

I have shot and held a Glock before and I'm pretty sure the Glock 17 gen3 might have been 4, fit my hand perfect.
I'm not sure if my first pistol would be my everyday carry anyway.
Now my Brother in Law who is an officer told me that a Glock is not the safest gun to carry because there is no safety.

His issued gun is a Glock and was just saying that he has seen this as a safety issue.

Thought on that?

It's going to be a long time because I just don't have the money for one right now anyway.

Thanks for input.

We need another thread for the drama.

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The Glocks were originally designed as a combat handgun and can be run and function just fine without the tender loving care other makes might need. The armorer courses and re-certification courses I've attended the instructors have all emphasized not coddling these guns in terms of over-oiling them. They tend to function better a little "dry" and will function flawlessly several thousand rounds in with no cleaning. That isn't to say to not clean or maintain them, just that they're purpose built to be used hard and still function without a hiccup. I'd trust my life to any of the ones I own and that of my family to them as well.

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Originally Posted by KMG

See you added more facts to the story. If the guy was found asleep on the couch he stands a good chance of surviving. But coming through the door and walking around the house at night in the dark. Most people are going to think him a burglar and have the right to use force including deadly force.

If this happened to someone I knew I would be sad for them but I would hold nothing against the homeowner.

I know that is hard to believe but it is the truth. I think being an officer does give me a different way of viewing things but I believe it is because of what my career has exposed me too. I also think it is a good thing. I think eyes are open wider than most Americans living their peaceful life only knowing what the government and media tells them of the real world.


If you want to shoot you should look around for a shooting range that rents guns. This way you can shoot different kinds and calibers and find what you like without buying one to them find you dont like it.

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Yeah when I read you were a police officer I completely understood your point of view. I mean to be honest if I had a gun I would most likely shoot a strange person that was sneaking around the house. But I would most likely to ask them to state their business. And then shoot if I find the answer unlikable. I know im allowed to use deadly force in Cali if they're a threat to my life, whatever that means....

Ok time to find a shooting range!

PS you seem like a nice cop so thanks for protecting us civilians :) but if youre a bad cop then :(

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by barbie.dragon

Yeah when I read you were a police officer I completely understood your point of view. I mean to be honest if I had a gun I would most likely shoot a strange person that was sneaking around the house. But I would most likely to ask them to state their business. And then shoot if I find the answer unlikable. I know im allowed to use deadly force in Cali if they're a threat to my life, whatever that means....

Ok time to find a shooting range!

PS you seem like a nice cop so thanks for protecting us civilians! But if you're a not so great cop then :(

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

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Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by barbie.dragon

but if youre a bad cop then :(

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

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The VAST MAJORITY of cops are good, honest, hard working folks who do the job because they truly want to help people. Despite what the mainstream media want us to believe, they are not all out there looking for innocent people to give the beat down to...

I'm not picking on you, just piggy backing off your comment. :) It just pisses me off to no end that they are constantly being bashed for everything they do. They can't even make a legit arrest of a dangerous criminal without getting a ration of s......it's like we live in Bizzarro world or something...
:confusd:

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

Now my Brother in Law who is an officer told me that a Glock is not the safest gun to carry because there is no safety.

His issued gun is a Glock and was just saying that he has seen this as a safety issue.

Thought on that?

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I hated my Glock 22 at first. But after a few thousand rounds trough it I have come to love it. It never jams, functions flawlessly every time. I do clean it after every session but like everyone has said, it's a super easy breakdown. My conceal holster I use off duty is an inside the waist holster. I've practiced drawing so many time that my trigger finger is alway in primary safety position, never around the trigger.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/14/daru6eqe.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/14/ny7e4edy.jpg

And this is what I mean by primary safety: my trigger finger is on the rail of the gun. This is how it comes out of every holster, every time.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/14/pu2esy3a.jpg

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Originally Posted by pigfat

I hated my Glock 22 at first. But after a few thousand rounds trough it I have come to love it. It never jams, functions flawlessly every time. I do clean it after every session but like everyone has said, it's a super easy breakdown. My conceal holster I use off duty is an inside the waist holster. I've practiced drawing so many time that my trigger finger is alway in primary safety position, never around the trigger.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/14/daru6eqe.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/14/ny7e4edy.jpg

And this is what I mean by primary safety: my trigger finger is on the rail of the gun. This is how it comes out of every holster, every time.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/14/pu2esy3a.jpg

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Is your holster Kydex or leather? Reason I'm asking is we had a briefing sent out the other day regarding a Glock being carried in a leather holster. Apparently the leather had softened enough that when the officer (off-duty carry) sat in his vehicle it somehow actuated the trigger, discharging a round into the floor of his vehicle. No one was hurt but food for thought if you elect to carry in a leather holster, especially if it's really well worn or broken in. Stay safe!

I've heard a similar story before but the holster had to be worn way past the point of service. I have some leather holsters, some are several years old and are still just as rigid as the day I got them.
I would bet that the owner oiled the holster which makes it nice and soft, not what you want in a holster.
That said I do prefer the kydex now days. More because it is thinner and lighter.

To pre-empt your aggression about me posting again, there seems to be some more reasonable discussion going on at this point and you chose to answer my questions to the best of your ability. I will choose to answer yours to the best of mine. It would be hypocritical of me to come here and ask questions to people of a different viewpoint for the sake of learning and then not provide answers myself.

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Originally Posted by KMG

Have you ever shot a gun? Any reason other than self defense.
Did this experience sway your opinion on guns? Good or bad
What was it that gave you your opinion?

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1. I have shot a number of guns a number of times. My father's father runs a gun / hunting shop out of his house. We hunted a bit when I was younger and it was great fun marching around in the woods and hiding out and stalking animals. I felt kind of bad for the animals and not very accomplished when we actually killed something, though. I got more out of the hiking and stalking element. We usually hunted with bows but we did hunt birds a few times using shotguns. I also used handguns on targets at the house.

2. The experience didn't change my opinion on guns much. I did and still do have a fairly neutral sentiment toward them. I guess before I shot them they were a little scarier/more dangerous in my head. They're pretty fun to shoot, but awfully loud and the fun of target practice kind of burned out pretty quick for me.

3. After shooting guns I learned that they can be used safely if you're responsible about it. This was due to learning the various safety measures involved in keeping and using a gun for sport.

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Originally Posted by barbie.dragon

I definitely agree. Hell I've had drunk friends accidentally going into the wrong house in themiddle of the night. (I have no idea how he got in to the housel I would be horrifie
ed if someone thought "oh my neighbor is being robbed. Let's shoot them"

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by barbie.dragon

I disagree shooting him would be justified unless he was a threat to your life. He has no idea how he got in the house. I'm thinking the homeowner didnt lock the door? He just fell asleep on the couch and the home owner didnt notice until they woke up. You seem like a logical person so you would asses the situation correct? We have to remember some if not alot of people aren't like that. All because you get frightened it doesnt mean you should shoot them. Maybe your perspective will change if a situation like this happens or almost happens to someone you know? I hope it doesn't though that would be awful.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

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I keep my doors and windows locked, and after my year-long experience living next door to drug dealing felons, I am on high alert. I have always been a light sleeper, now I am even more so. Having said that, if someone tries getting into my house at night (whether through mistaken identity or with malicious intent), I am probably going to wake up. And if I wake up to someone breaking into my house at night, you betcha I'm going to be pulling out my gun. I'll be standing at the end of my hallway, and give them ONE chance to answer the questions correctly, BEFORE they enter the hallway. "STATE YOUR BUSINESS." ONE chance. If they can't answer that question correctly (either with the "abort word" or give acceptable identification as law enforcement or emergency personnel), they are going to be shot. I will NOT take chances now, after having meth addicts trespass on my property at 2AM. After seeing how those people act and think, after seeing the police arrest them multiple times, and seeing them released the next day because the jails and prisons are too over crowded to hold them, I will NOT take chances with my or my family's safety. If I give more than ONE chance to answer the question correctly, it is going to be too late for me. If they enter my hallway without identifying themselves, it is too late for them. In order to get to my hallway, they are going to have to be well in my house already, and would have had to have made it through a locked door or window AND dog. Plus I have a security system on my home, so they'll have had to ignore that going off to get to my hallway too! After what I went through with my previous neighbors, I am NOT willing to take a chance. Giving a second chance to someone I don't know who has NO business in my home means I am taking a reasonable risk that myself or my baby are going to be assaulted, raped, and/or murdered.

Finding someone sleeping on my couch is going to be a different situation, but like I said, I am a light sleeper and the chances of them getting that far as slim to none. If that happens, I'll be calling the police, and holding my shotgun on them until the police get there. I CANNOT take those chances. Period. That might be scary to some, but I lived through hell with those neighbors for a year, and the police had their hands tied as far as what they could do about it. When you have a police officer in your house watching the security video of a meth user on your property at 2AM, and you see the look in the officer's face as they look at you and your 8 month old baby and say "I am glad he didn't come through your front door", any innocence and naivety you ever had about life in general will vanish.

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Originally Posted by KMG

To the people willing to answer.

Have you ever shot a gun? Any reason other than self defense.
Did this experience sway your opinion on guns? Good or bad
What was it that gave you your opinion?

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I've fired shotguns for target practice only. Haven't had to use one for self defense, haven't been out hunting. I would like more practice and be able to go hunting some day though.
My experience with guns has been largely neutral, until the past year that I've had to deal with drug dealing, meth addicted, felon neighbors who had no respect for any person, no respect for another's property, no respect for property lines, did anything and everything they felt necessary to get and deal their drugs, and threatened other neighbors with guns. Probably the kind of people you deal with on a regular basis, as an officer. At that point my opinion about guns changed: Guns are a useful tool, and in the RIGHT hands, that have been properly trained to use it, are no more dangerous than any other tool. In the WRONG hands, guns are very dangerous weapons. I prefer to have a gun in my house for home defense, in the uncommon event someone tries to break into my home while I am present. I bought my shotgun the day one of those drug-dealing, meth addicted felon neighbors decided to trespass on my property at 2AM. I can still see the look in the officer's face, and feel the pit in my stomach, as he watched the security video and told me he's glad that individual did not come through my front door, but instead chose to harass my horses.

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Originally Posted by CatandDiallo

Yes, I have. A shotgun, though. At a shooting range.

I was younger, it didn't sway my opinion any way because I see nothing wrong with having guns for hunting.

Most people here have grown up without guns, that's just the way it is. I live in the Toronto area, and the crime rates are extremely low for the size of the city. It's just not dangerous here.

Most of the gun violence that occurs here is by gangs, aiming at other gangs. It is EXTREMELY rare here for non-gang members to get caught up within it, but it has happened. However, as I've said, those are rare anomalies.

I just don't like guns, period. I see no need for hand guns to be in the hands of civilians. That's just it.

Praying or saying the pledge weren't designed to kill someone. Saying the pledge or praying can't kill someone. Guns were and do.

We just don't have the problems with gun violence like you guys do (neither does Ireland, Scotland, England, etc), and I think having extremely tight restrictions on guns is the main reason why.
There's a common denominator here: the less accessible guns are for the average Joe, the less gun violence there is. Period.

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Around here, gangs don't use guns on other gangs, they use them on any one and everyone that gets in their way. And not just guns, but knives too. With hundreds, even thousands, of inmates being released from prisons and jails throughout this state, due to over crowded conditions, crimes are increasing. Some areas are seeing a bigger increase than others, for a variety of reasons. The area I live in is seeing a higher increase than many other areas because A) Our police, despite being under-staffed and over-worked, have a very high arrest rate therefore more inmates are released here because they are released where they were arrested, and B) we have lower cost of living than many other parts of the state, and therefore the released inmates who have no jobs or funds can afford to live here. There are other reasons too (large senior community is seen as an easier target by these released inmates, etc), but those are two big reasons. Over the past year, since these inmates started being released, there has been more and more crime, and big surprise, a lot of those crimes are being committed by these released inmates. Most of these crimes are indeed property crimes: theft of all forms. Some of these crimes are more violent in nature: daytime muggings, home invasion robbery, even murder. These criminals are NOT bored teenagers. They are seasoned, dangerous criminals who carry guns and knives and are NOT afraid to use them. The drug dealing felon neighbors I lived next to had guns and knives in their possession. Last July a woman was mugged in broad daylight, the criminal used a weapon against her to achieve compliance (I forget now if it was a gun or a knife though). Last August and September a string of robberies resulted in several convenience store clerks being shot or stabbed. A couple months ago a 16 year old boy was murdered, stabbed by 2 other teens and a 20 year old. Authorities say the stabbing was over a cell phone, but local rumor (and pictures on the Facebook pages of the suspects only supports this) says it was a gang initiation. Not all of these crimes are committed using guns, but some of them are. The interesting thing about all of this... this state has some of the toughest gun control laws in this country. Open carry is illegal. Concealed carry is only legal with a permit that is very hard to get. Guns must be registered, and a background check is required before you may purchase a gun. You also need to have your fingerprints on file. Handguns require you take a test about proper gun safety and handling. If you have ANY criminal history, it is illegal for you to be in possession of a gun. They practically ask you for your first born and left arm. And if you pass all of those hoops and hurdles, you still have to wait 10 days before you can even pick up your gun. Despite all of that, the criminals STILL have guns, and the criminals STILL use those guns against law-abiding citizens, typically those who are unarmed.

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

A break in during the night has more of a chance to end in violence. The criminal knows there is a chance the person is home. Could be more of a spur of the moment decision, money for drugs, rape etc.

A day time break in is going to be more of a professional criminal. Cases the house, knows your routine, waits for you to leave an he is in and out. Not looking for a fight.

Just throwing that out there.

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That's how my home was broken into. I was on vacation, had a neighbor stopping in twice a day to check on the animals. That neighbor stopped in the same time every day. Whoever broke into my house had been watching, knew I wasn't home, and learned the routine my neighbor followed. Broke in between "shifts".

My holster is leather. Like KMG said, that holster had to be on it's last thread for it to allow the gun to fire. There's no way mine will fire. But I'll keep an eye on that for sure now. If I'm wearing a jacket I use a Blackhawk Serpa paddle holster. I use the Blackhawk level 2 on duty and love it.

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Originally Posted by sho220

Springfield's XD-m's are also very easy to break down and clean. I hate cleaning my Walther...the take down lever is a pita...:rage:

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I take it you have an older Walther, then? Field strip/takedown on my P99c identical to a Glock, apart from hitting a decocker button instead of pulling the trigger.

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Originally Posted by pigfat

My holster is leather. Like KMG said, that holster had to be on it's last thread for it to allow the gun to fire. There's no way mine will fire. But I'll keep an eye on that for sure now. If I'm wearing a jacket I use a Blackhawk Serpa paddle holster. I use the Blackhawk level 2 on duty and love it.

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I don't recall all the details on the briefing, as I don't carry/use leather except on my duty holster, which is the high-gloss cheapo-looking plastic crap that's pretty but about as functional as teats on a boar hog. Anyway...hahahaha! Sorry, got off on a tangent there. I like the Blackhawk Serpa holsters as well, along with Blade Tech and a few I've started making myself. Found this looking for the end of the Internet one day and it took off from there:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=64714

http://www.tacticalintelligence.net/...ex-holster.htm

One thing I read and would add to that if you elect to try the above is to NOT use your actual weapon, as the heat transfer into the grip/frame can damage it. I bought red guns for the model Glocks I have and they work just fine. Some inch and a quarter PVC pipe cut in half and secured over the end of the rail makes the void for a tac light if you have on the gun. Fun stuff if you like to tinker and don't have a wife or otherwise wait until she's gone for the day to use the oven, lmao! :rofl:

I have a Glock 19 9mm that has been through hell and back. Dropped in mud, sand, lakes, left outside in the rain, anything you can imagine and it still works like a champ.

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Originally Posted by Trackstrong83

I have a Glock 19 9mm that has been through hell and back. Dropped in mud, sand, lakes, left outside in the rain, anything you can imagine and it still works like a champ.

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One of the armorer re-certs I went to the instructor had a Glock from NOPD that had been in an armory when the storm surge hit. I forget how long he said it had been immersed in saltwater but other than being a little dirty it looked brand new. Not a speck of rust or anything else on it and he said it they'd put a 1,000 rounds or so through it after they recovered it without a misfire or failure to feed/eject, nothing. They're phenomenal guns, far as I'm concerned.