Ballbids.com

I just posted this on their wall:
Evan Swanson: See? If you actually read everything we've been saying on our forums then you would see that you are being scammed. Please for your own safety do not bid. Do you think that it's a coincidence that his friend won the auction? It was said that she won the auction but is okay with the animal being put back for auction. Why is this? She's in on it too! At the least this is very suspicious. A funny thing happened the other day, when the timer hit 0:00 it was reset to ONE HOUR! Even if this was not a scam, which it is, what you're doing is extremely unethical. Every time Avi posts on BP.net he raises more red flags. You might have some people fooled but our community is not falling for it and you are an eyesore to our hobby, our business, our passion and our way of life. Please do us all a favor and stop what you're doing right now. Find some other way to make money besides degrading this wonderful business with what you are doing.
2 seconds ago · Like

there up and runn.....scamming again:rolleyes:
spooky

I'm SO excited! I got FIVE free bids just for signing up!!! I think I'll use them all now at the same time on the same product!!!!!! I don't think anyone will be "bidding" on these snakes, at least I hope not. Maybe they will lose the two snakes they have up to people who use their free bids, that way they make no money at all. I hope the snakes sell for $0.07.....and go to a home where they will be well taken care of. That way its a win-win. They lose money, and someone gets a snake "hopefully".

"I do hope you all know I'm kidding about the whole excited about 5 free bids thing." I signed up to see what all goes on. I won't support this congressman. Wait....he IS part of congress right?

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Originally Posted by pigfat

I'm SO excited! I got FIVE free bids just for signing up!!! I think I'll use them all now at the same time on the same product!!!!!! I don't think anyone will be "bidding" on these snakes, at least I hope not. Maybe they will lose the two snakes they have up to people who use their free bids, that way they make no money at all. I hope the snakes sell for $0.07.....and go to a home where they will be well taken care of. That way its a win-win. They lose money, and someone gets a snake "hopefully".

"I do hope you all know I'm kidding about the whole excited about 5 free bids thing." I signed up to see what all goes on. I won't support this congressman. Wait....he IS part of congress right?

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When you signed up, did you give them your real personal information?

If these guys are running some sort of scam, I wouldn't want them knowing my real name, birth date or email.

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Originally Posted by alkibp

When you signed up, did you give them your real personal information?

If these guys are running some sort of scam, I wouldn't want them knowing my real name, birth date or email.

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fake name, fake birthdate, and a new email that I added today just for this purpose lol.

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Originally Posted by AGoldReptiles

Everyone here is doing a great job at pointing out there lies and deceptions. I would just like to add that I will "Blacklist" ANYONE who provides these individuals with animals for there shady practices.
Anthony

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I'm with you on this one :gj:

Another thing I have noticed, is that every time someone bids, its supposed to add 15 seconds to the clock right? Look how every clock on all the "auctions" are on the exact same...is it just chance that someone is bidding on all 5 at the exact same time?

Usark just put up a link on their facebbok page about ballbids saying

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If you have LIKED BallBids.com... UNLIKE them NOW! They are BAD NEWS!

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Originally Posted by AGoldReptiles

I love this hobby/community. Thanks to everyone who outed these greedy individuals who want to prey on the ignorant and naive to line there pockets.:salute:

Everyone here is doing a great job at pointing out there lies and deceptions. I would just like to add that I will "Blacklist" ANYONE who provides these individuals with animals for there shady practices.

These are living creatures that they are treating like laptops. Support BREEDERS who work hard to provide quality animals, not some computer savy (not really) individual and a newb who does not even understand basic husbandry that want to prey on the ignorant.

Anthony

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I'm with you on this one :gj:

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I haven't read the entire thread and I don't support this scam at all but I wanted to comment on this. I think you should take care in who you decide to blacklist. It's possible that a breeder unknowing sold an animal to them or they will claim it came from someone it didn't or it might even be the second/third/etc... time the animal has changed hands. I would like to believe that no one with any once of respect for their animals would knowing participate in this and supply their animals for auction.

USARK just posted on their facebook page.

As posted on Facebook!

USARK (United States Association of Reptile Keepers)
"If you have LIKED BallBids.com... UNLIKE them NOW! They are BAD NEWS!"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...Untitled-2.jpg


http://forum.grasscity.com/pandoras-...eats-ebay.html

redo link dont work

This was posted by a member on fauna:

http://www.powersellersunite.com/about30156.html

Gotta love how they Like this comment i made. Joking or not the site owners need to wake up.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2q8ytdx.png

Yea its been pointed out that they were in this together for a long time

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Originally Posted by that_dc5

As for those of you who are participating, don't bid too much on that female Butter, I want her lol :rolleye2::rolleye2:

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hey buddy...you paying attention here? :D

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Originally Posted by pigfat

Another thing I have noticed, is that every time someone bids, its supposed to add 15 seconds to the clock right? Look how every clock on all the "auctions" are on the exact same...is it just chance that someone is bidding on all 5 at the exact same time?

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The resetting of the clock only starts when it gets down into the last few seconds of the auction. THEN the clock adds 15 more seconds with each bid.

It's crazy how many people support and are defending them on facebook.... :O

And props to Robin who is tearing them apart!

At, first I hit "like" on FB to read the drama there, but have since hit unlike. No reason to add the the like total for them.

It has been noted on here already... but it seems they simply buy animals and then use the person who they bought off to up their own creed.

Blacklisting a breeder for selling them a snake is not an effective means of containing the situation, nor an appropriate one.

Anyone can buy a snake off a breeder, it in no way reflects an involvement on their part, just a lack of honesty on the part of ball bids for inferring there is a connection between them (which they have since admitted there is none).

Bruce

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Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

It has been noted on here already... but it seems they simply buy animals and then use the person who they bought off to up their own creed.

Blacklisting a breeder for selling them a snake is not an effective means of containing the situation, nor an appropriate one.

Anyone can buy a snake off a breeder, it in no way reflects an involvement on their part, just a lack of honesty on the part of ball bids for inferring there is a connection between them (which they have since admitted there is none).

Bruce

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I agree with your post, but there appears to be more of a connection than name dropping. They appear to be only selling snakes from this one supplier and I think they stated they will only continue with him. They have banners on their website directly linking to his site. This is a unique banner I can't find anywhere else. I honestly don't know what's going on but it kind of looks like a case of plausible deniability from this outsider :confused: Maybe not but at this point I would have at least told them to pull my banner.

Little zackeroni is now wearing a latex suit, with a full hood no less, permanently housing a 4" ball gag in his oversized yap, and living in a large suitcase in avi's basement. He is not allowed to play on the internet without adult supervision.

avi is the only one posting. It wouldn't surprise me if he's the girl who won too.

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Originally Posted by Ace of Snakes

Here's what I feel like is really going on:

1. The site appears to have been thrown together by somebody with very little patience, let alone knowledge regarding marketing or website construction. The odds that the person behind the site will pay any attention to the health of the animals or the satisfaction of the customer are slim to none.

2. If the website creator really cared about anything other than making a quick buck, more attention would have been paid to details like how the timer would behave, whether the website would be able to handle the traffic, and whether the terms of service were written by Best Buy. Once the money is in his pocket, he's going to be gone.

3. The site is likely set up in such a way that the timer will repeatedly reset if a certain profit has not been attained. To bidders watching the auction, it would appear as though other users are bidding, causing the timer to reset. This process would continue until a certain amount of money has been accrued. I highly doubt that it's an accident, or the fault of the 'server'. It's probably intentional, and extremely sloppy programming.

So in conclusion, I am absolutely not going to give this person any of my money. The fact that one individual person might get away with a morph for pennies on the dollar does not justify the means that it took to make it happen. IF anybody gets the snake cheap, it means that hundreds of others spent heaps of money in exchange for NOTHING. Hundreds of people get ripped off while one person is pleased with themselves for being a jackass and lining the pockets of a scumbag. In the meantime we are COLLECTIVELY shat on. The whole community.

It DOES matter to me that his practices are impatient, sloppy, underhanded and dishonest. I do not want somebody like this to make any money at the expense of weak-willed people and innocent animals.

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Um. Nice post there, slick. Looks a little familiar though. :rolleyes:

I would imagine you were one of the people banned Robin and probably Kim too?

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...2/7f1ef3d1.jpg


The people who win will probably get their snake. They are too deep in it now not too and will make more money off of nieve people who see them make good on it and will start bidding also. What I don't understand is why any one would want to support them just for a chance to get a cheap snake. Does a chance at getting a cheap snake really mean that much to you?

I also wonder if the supporters will brag up their breeding stock they won from ballbids a year or two from now when they start breeding? Or will they simply say their breeding stock came from Mike Wilbanks? Or maybe nothing at all....

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Originally Posted by Boanerges

I would imagine you were one of the people banned Robin and probably Kim too?

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...2/7f1ef3d1.jpg


The people who win will probably get their snake. They are too deep in it now not too and will make more money off of nieve people who see them make good on it and will start bidding also. What I don't understand is why any one would want to support them just for a chance to get a cheap snake. Does a chance at getting a cheap snake really mean that much to you?

I also wonder if the supporters will brag up their breeding stock they won from ballbids a year or two from now when they start breeding? Or will they simply say their breeding stock came from Mike Wilbanks? Or maybe nothing at all....

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My thoughts exactly. They're going to give away at least one snake to somebody at this point. They pretty much have to. Although, if they don't, I wouldn't be surprised either. Their behavior so far hasn't really reflected intelligence.

I must admit that I'm a little angry to find it's still up and running this morning. I want to derail this so badly that I'm prepared to vow that I will NEVER buy from somebody who has fallen for ballbids.

So this goes out to anybody thinking about participating; I hope you only plan on keeping what you win (if anything) as a pet, because you're not going to sell it, it's offspring, or ANYTHING to me. Ever.

Hi,

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I'm with you on this one :gj:

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Originally Posted by AGoldReptiles

I love this hobby/community. Thanks to everyone who outed these greedy individuals who want to prey on the ignorant and naive to line there pockets.:salute:

Everyone here is doing a great job at pointing out there lies and deceptions. I would just like to add that I will "Blacklist" ANYONE who provides these individuals with animals for there shady practices.

These are living creatures that they are treating like laptops. Support BREEDERS who work hard to provide quality animals, not some computer savy (not really) individual and a newb who does not even understand basic husbandry that want to prey on the ignorant.

Anthony

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Originally Posted by Kinra

I haven't read the entire thread and I don't support this scam at all but I wanted to comment on this. I think you should take care in who you decide to blacklist. It's possible that a breeder unknowing sold an animal to them or they will claim it came from someone it didn't or it might even be the second/third/etc... time the animal has changed hands. I would like to believe that no one with any once of respect for their animals would knowing participate in this and supply their animals for auction.

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Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

It has been noted on here already... but it seems they simply buy animals and then use the person who they bought off to up their own creed.

Blacklisting a breeder for selling them a snake is not an effective means of containing the situation, nor an appropriate one.

Anyone can buy a snake off a breeder, it in no way reflects an involvement on their part, just a lack of honesty on the part of ball bids for inferring there is a connection between them (which they have since admitted there is none).

Bruce

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I don't think it would be fair to blacklist people who have done nothing more than sell snakes unless you can prove they knew they were going to be used as part of a scam.

Until now there has been only one supplier who may have been entirely unaware of their intentions.

Until hearing his side of the story I don't think it would be fair to rush to judgement given that he is widely regarded as one of the good guys in the industry with a real passion for his animals.


dr del

I agree folks should not jump to blacklisting a breeder. But it would be interesting to hear his side of it.

I think it is hilarious that now they are kicking the critics off the FB page.

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I think you should take care in who you decide to blacklist.

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What makes you assume that I don't take care on who I Blacklist and who I don't? Blacklisting is something I take very seriously, but I would like to Thank You for pointing out those scenarios for beginners to this hobby. :jg:

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I would like to believe that no one with any once of respect for their animals would knowing participate in this and supply their animals for auction.

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I would like to believe that too, however my experience tells me that simply is not true.

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It has been noted on here already... but it seems they simply buy animals and then use the person who they bought off to up their own creed.

Blacklisting a breeder for selling them a snake is not an effective means of containing the situation, nor an appropriate one.

Anyone can buy a snake off a breeder, it in no way reflects an involvement on their part, just a lack of honesty on the part of ball bids for inferring there is a connection between them (which they have since admitted there is none).

Bruce

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I have read the entire thread and understand there shenanigans. As for if it is appropriate or not to add someone to MY blacklist, well thats MY decision. Blacklisting is absolutely effective. I understand all the what ifs that can happen, however IF I discover that someone is knowingly providing animals to these individuals they will be added to my Blacklist. These guys are not hiding their identity's, therefore we KNOW who not to sell to. Don't make Assumptions about my post. Just because I have recently joined does not mean I am new to this hobby. :D If anyone has any questions feel free to contact me. I am very approachable.

Anthony Gold
agoldreptiles@yahoo.com
330-407-3446

Nope, not banned...yet! LOL

Their friend Ncockerham28 is currently winning both snake bids. Surprise, surprise, surprise!!!!

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Nope, not banned...yet! LOL

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You know I seen that and started to type a reply but I was tired of posting in this thread. He must have tried and did it wrong or something - lol

I've been tracking this thread all along. At first I thought these guys were being unduly slammed. Then I thought maybe they had some fault, but the thread had pointed that out and it seemed like beating a dead horse. But now with the active research of you dedicated people I am definitely leaning towards them being a complete intentional fraud using one of their minor hobbies as a catalyst to the idea. On all forums there is clearly a sharing of usernames. The FB chick that won almost writes like zack. Anyway good job everyone on your diligence. I almost posted earlier, but glad I didn't!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Nope, not banned...yet! LOL

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I don't think comments from either of us will last long on their page lol.

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Originally Posted by aviBallBids

7) Server crash: I've been doing a whole lot of advertising over the last two days, but I had no clue how far my efforts would reach. On day 1 we had about 2500 visitors. Today, on day 2, our dedicated server was completely overwhelmed, even after we made modifications. It became obvious that the server wouldn't survive the last few minutes of the auctions, so I tried to extend them by 1 hour to give us time to work things out. Being in such a chaotic atmosphere, I accidentally added an extra day to each auction, instead of an hour. Because of the server load time, it took me a while just to go back and modify the auction end time again so that it reflected the extra hour instead of the extra day. This is why you see users mentioning one or the other, or both.

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What modifications did you make to the server that could handle a substantially greater number of concurrent users? As far as resources go the server would have to be brought off-line to make any hardware changes, so this means you must have done some optimization of your software. However, this leaves me a little hesitant to use a site with software so horribly written that it can be optimized to handle a substantially greater number of users. So if you may address a few of my concerns:

1. What made the server able to handle a large number of concurrent users?
2. What security is taken in regards to my information (md5, SHA-256/512, slated)?
3. Why would you not use SSL when dealing with currency? I would rather not have to worry about a person reading my information as plain text.
4. After being very well educated about quarantine practices, how the :cens0r: can you still be auctioning off animals?

For some reason I am now unable to post on their wall..

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Originally Posted by evan385

For some reason I am now unable to post on their wall..

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lol, I just had to post there to see if I still could. I was kind of on fire last night and I don't think they liked it a whole lot.

It's pretty funny, the winner of the Butter put over 200 bids into the bid. I asked Avi who he was, and he just ended the chat. Typical! Bring up a valid argument with them and they just end the chat! Ha! Professional customer service! Stay away from all snakes, and you do think of them as a quick buck, don't say otherwise. Don't make snakes suffer just to make a profit you self centered people. Sorry for the language to all the BP.net members except Zack & Avi.

Here are a few posts from their wall (names excluded)

"still had 72 bids 5 sec. left would not let me bid"

"it just ended, before it even got to the last sec? whateves."

"Hmmmmm Had 2 of my free bids left but they disappeared so lost out on the butter :P You guys really need to fix your system before putting up more auctions."

"The bid on the lemon was crap, it never got below 5 seconds and then said sold. I don think so.....SCAM"

Just a few gems...

One more thing that scares me is this.

What if Senator Bill Nelson finds out? What happens then to the battle for our rights to keep reptiles. DO you think the battle will be won with the public eye seeing "killer pythons loose in Florida for penny auctions" Think about it guys, the repercussions of this auction are 10 fold. This is not good one bit for our loved reptiles or hobby. It is bad enough because it cheapens the animals but think about long term for a minute. This is death to the industry and hobby as a whole which is why USARK is getting involved now.

It looks like Mike Wilbanks finally got to post his side of it over on Fauna's BOI.

He says he'll continue to sell him snakes :shrug:

thats sad - really it is - I kinda got a little scolded for posting that i was dissappointed in Wilbanks for getting involved. With all due respect Mr. Moderator, he does know about it and made it clear it's no big deal to him on Fauna's board.

I really want to mark every one of their posts as spam.... :P

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Originally Posted by robeyeshua

thats sad - really it is - I kinda got a little scolded for posting that i was dissappointed in Wilbanks for getting involved. With all due respect Mr. Moderator, he does know about it and made it clear it's no big deal to him on Fauna's board.

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Do you have a link by chance? I'm curious to see what he had to say. I mean, I understand that he has nothing to do with that a buyer does with one of his snakes, but I hope he didn't condone the site.

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Originally Posted by robeyeshua

thats sad - really it is - I kinda got a little scolded for posting that i was dissappointed in Wilbanks for getting involved. With all due respect Mr. Moderator, he does know about it and made it clear it's no big deal to him on Fauna's board.

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I think this attitude is going a bit far.

No one can control what happens to things which do not belong to them. Sell someone a snake and if they want BBQ Slither for lunch it's their decision. In this case there's some inadequate quarantine but they are not alone in this. Anyone who's ever bought from an importer or petshop is guilty of the same thing.

avi and the geek are one thing. Not dealing with who they legitimately buy from, like I said, is a bit much.

I suspect what's going to happen is, either they'll turn out to be frauds, or people will start getting their snakes.
If they start getting their snakes, then plenty of people will use the site and bid, for the chance to get morphs for 5 bucks.

As for quarantine...if they all came from the same breeder, and are housed separately, that is unnecessary. If they start buying from multiple breeders, then there may be an issue. Even so, it's no different from buying from any of the other retailers like LLL, or Big Apple Herp, or Reptimart. They all have their detractors and fans, but they're still in business. These guys are just acting as distributors. Yes, they are flipping snakes--that's what a reseller is.

As for the folks receiving the snakes...always quarantine ANY snake you buy, no matter who it came from. My quarantine is 12 months, yours should be, too.

I'll leave my 'like' up because I kind of want a female fire. If it starts to look bad, I'll hit 'unlike'. At this point, tons of people hate the idea of this site, and their reasons are somewhat legitimate, but I don't necessarily think that they will be successful in shutting the site down if it proves legitimate.

Yes, people do want a $5 butter female that badly.

For myself, I'm no risk taker, so I would never buy bids on the site. I don't buy lotto tickets, and I've never been to a Casino, either.

People seem to care about this an awful lot. For myself, I'll save the caring about it until there's some reason to believe that it is either a scam, or they're handing out sick animals. All the other arguments seem to be nothing that couldn't be pointed at any pet store or reseller. The female butter I saw sell tonight, closed at $6.10. That's $366 they get for her, while the winning bidder would pay $6.10 plus the cost of however many bids they used. Since they didn't spend $366 on their bids, that isn't entirely horrifying.

I'm not sure how long this thing will last before it falls apart, but it's an interesting idea, and it sure did get a lot of attention, both good and bad.

It would be a really bad thing for compulsive gamblers, I guess.

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

Do you have a link by chance? I'm curious to see what he had to say. I mean, I understand that he has nothing to do with that a buyer does with one of his snakes, but I hope he didn't condone the site.

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http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...290982&page=14 is the link and the quote is

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1. Bob Clark and I dissolved all of our partnerships over a year ago. We have rarely spoken since then.
2. I have no idea if Zack Byers is related to Jeff Byers. Jeff works for Bob. So if they were related why wouldn't Zack get his animals from Bob? What do your snacks tell you about that one oh oracle of the pastry?
3. I sold animals to Zack, so what. I sell animals to lots of people that resell them. Most act like they produced them and many of the ads you see around the Internet are animals that I produced. Zack chose to advertise that I produced the animals that he is auctioning. Why should I care about that? I did produce them. I guess he could have acted like he produced them, but he chose to be honest about it. I did not even know about this site until Zack told me just before the launch that he was doing an auction site. I was at the airport heading for the Hamm show in Germany and I had some emails from people asking me about this site. This was the first time I had even seen it. I called Zack and asked him to make it clear that I was not affiliated with the site. He said he would. They have not scammed anyone. He paid me when he said he would and I shipped him some nice animals. That is the extent of my involvement with them. If he calls me tomorrow and asks to buy some more animals I will be happy to sell them to him.

Bottom line, I don't know Zack that well. I am not endorsing his site. I told him today that I have worked many years to earn my reputation and he would have to earn his. I am not bidding on any ball pythons, if you think it is too big a risk, then you shouldn't either, but really, what is the big deal?

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

I suspect what's going to happen is, either they'll turn out to be frauds, or people will start getting their snakes.
If they start getting their snakes, then plenty of people will use the site and bid, for the chance to get morphs for 5 bucks.

As for quarantine...if they all came from the same breeder, and are housed separately, that is unnecessary. If they start buying from multiple breeders, then there may be an issue. Even so, it's no different from buying from any of the other retailers like LLL, or Big Apple Herp, or Reptimart. They all have their detractors and fans, but they're still in business. These guys are just acting as distributors. Yes, they are flipping snakes--that's what a reseller is.

As for the folks receiving the snakes...always quarantine ANY snake you buy, no matter who it came from. My quarantine is 12 months, yours should be, too.

I'll leave my 'like' up because I kind of want a female fire. If it starts to look bad, I'll hit 'unlike'. At this point, tons of people hate the idea of this site, and their reasons are somewhat legitimate, but I don't necessarily think that they will be successful in shutting the site down if it proves legitimate.

Yes, people do want a $5 butter female that badly.

For myself, I'm no risk taker, so I would never buy bids on the site. I don't buy lotto tickets, and I've never been to a Casino, either.

People seem to care about this an awful lot. For myself, I'll save the caring about it until there's some reason to believe that it is either a scam, or they're handing out sick animals. All the other arguments seem to be nothing that couldn't be pointed at any pet store or reseller. The female butter I saw sell tonight, closed at $6.10. That's $366 they get for her, while the winning bidder would pay $6.10 plus the cost of however many bids they used. Since they didn't spend $366 on their bids, that isn't entirely horrifying.

I'm not sure how long this thing will last before it falls apart, but it's an interesting idea, and it sure did get a lot of attention, both good and bad.

It would be a really bad thing for compulsive gamblers, I guess.

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It's people like you who keeps guys like them trying to scam the rest of us.

Lies. Deceit. Ignorance on a grand scale. Rigging auctions. More lies. "server crashing" Friends, FRIENDS, seriously? winning auctions

Seriously, how can you not wish they would go away?

I have zero issue with Wilbanks selling them snakes. That's what the man does for a living.

It does bother me that they have a friend who is bidding on all of their snakes... especially how that friend miraculously managed to get the winning bid on the butter last night when so many people were unable to bid. Anyone else smell a bot?

That says it all, doesn't it. He's been selling snakes so long, he doesn't care either. Just like selling tires I guess. No big deal. It's a big deal to me. That's what makes America great I guess. We can all have our own opinions. - And, I aplogize earlier for saying Mr. Moderator. I think it was a female mod. looking back. And on the subject of moderation, would one of you mind to disable my account please permanently. Thank you and have a nice night.