Price drops

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Originally Posted by blueapplepaste

Then no offense, but why are you complaining if you're selling your animals for what you're asking?

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The answer to this question is the subject of this entire thread. People selling animals way below market price is bringing down the overall market. If they weren't doing this, I would not have had to sell my male spiders for only $275 this year...

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I've been producing and selling ball python mutations since 1997 ... Here are some of my thoughts on prices after doing this for 12 years.

Prices go down every year ... sometimes a little, sometimes a lot ... in the past I used to get really pissed ... now I accept that I have absolutely no control over it and I plan for as much as a 50%-60% drop each year on some mutations and adjust my business plan accordingly.

When I've priced my animals above market value I've been flamed and accused of ripping people off.

When I've priced my animals at market value I've been told that I'm being unfair to my customers and smaller scale breeders by competing with them directly and that I'm forcing them to drop their prices so that they can sell their animals and compete with me.

When I've priced my animals below market value I've been called a market crasher, scumbag, and price dropper.

After twelve years of doing this I've realized one thing ... no matter what you do, someone will be pissed off. I think some of it is jealousy, some of it is greed, and some of it is just that the internet seems to be a magnet for angry jerks.

I've put more money into this market than most people spend on their homes ... I got into lessers when the price was $40K, spiders at $10K, stripes and pins at $20K each and on and on and on. Shoot, I paid $5,000 for a het albino male 14 years ago.

I've made every single dime of that back and then some, even with people dumping prices on all of those projects year in and year out. I've done that because I had a sound business plan, a good marketing strategy, and I worked my a$$ off.

Something I like to tell people all the time is: "If the success or failure of your business revolves around how other people are pricing their animals, you've lost before you even started".

Love what you do, do it to the best of your ability, treat your customers well, and price your animals for what you feel is fair and reasonable ... and if anyone gives you poop for it ignore them.

Hope this helps.

-adam

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Sorry to derail just a bit, but 10,000 us dollars for a spider? Holy crap.

Wow, I guess prices must have gone down A LOT. That's even a bit more money than now, considering the slow and steady inflation.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

One last point, then I will move on.

As someone mentioned earlier, I know sometimes things don't work out as planned. Things change. Sometimes the things you count on being there forever disappear instantly. Sometimes the situation dictates that you simply have no choice but to sell IMMEDIATELY or face certain doom.

There is a word for such a scenario. Its called "Wholesale." Take your animals to a retail pet shop and sell them at wholesale. In the end you will end up with close to if not the same money. In the end you will usually get you money MUCH faster, AND all at once. In the end you would not be doing your part to destroy this business one sale at a time. You will actually be doing your part to IMPROVE the market because the highest prices are ALWAYS in the reptile shop! You will also have the piece of mind knowing whoever buys your snake will have paid a lot for it, and that means the odds are much better that it will actually be taken care of!

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You should worry more about the fact that you do not have enough enclosures for your animals.
You are housing and intend to breed your females two per tub.
Talk about slowing down.

You can call it research all you want, and your friends that would normally jump all over a noobie for the same thing, can defend you all they want.
The truth is that you are in such a hurry to produce as many animals as quickly as possible to make as much money as you can, that it is more important to you then the health of your animals.

That is why "protecting our prices" is so important to you, and in your own words, more important then "saving some, and showing at least one of them the light."

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Hey Mike,
I noticed you did not quote, or address this part of my post.

You should accept what you can not change or control, and concentrate your efforts and energy on the things that you can change or improve.
The market is what it is, and people have the right to sell their animals for whatever they feel is a fair value.

Man, you sold your male Spiders for $275. and still can't buy enough tubs to house your animals in seperate enclosures.

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Originally Posted by rjk890

Man, you sold your male Spiders for $275. and still can't buy enough tubs to house your animals in desperate enclosures.

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Again my friend you don't have a clue. Welcome to our community though. It's always nice to have a new bee.

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

One last point, then I will move on.

As someone mentioned earlier, I know sometimes things don't work out as planned. Things change. Sometimes the things you count on being there forever disappear instantly. Sometimes the situation dictates that you simply have no choice but to sell IMMEDIATELY or face certain doom.

There is a word for such a scenario. Its called "Wholesale." Take your animals to a retail pet shop and sell them at wholesale. In the end you will end up with close to if not the same money. In the end you will usually get you money MUCH faster, AND all at once. In the end you would not be doing your part to destroy this business one sale at a time. You will actually be doing your part to IMPROVE the market because the highest prices are ALWAYS in the reptile shop! You will also have the piece of mind knowing whoever buys your snake will have paid a lot for it, and that means the odds are much better that it will actually be taken care of!

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I guess we all still have dreams :rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

There is a word for such a scenario. Its called "Wholesale."

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Actually, the wholesale on spiders right now is about $75 each (and I know of people buying for $75 and selling for $100), so people selling for $150 are doing much better for themselves and the market.

Hope this helps.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

The answer to this question is the subject of this entire thread. People selling animals way below market price is bringing down the overall market. If they weren't doing this, I would not have had to sell my male spiders for only $275 this year...

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Only $275? I don't want to sound rude, but that's more than fair price IMO for them, especially with how widely available they are. Supply and demand...

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Originally Posted by blueapplepaste

Only $275? I don't want to sound rude, but that's more than fair price IMO for them, especially with how widely available they are. Supply and demand...

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You know why there are lots of spiders? Because EVERYONE wants one!

What do you think would happen if 100% of breeders stuck to their guns and didn't sell them for penny less then $500???? Do you think people would stop buying them?

Never mind, I give up. I guess some of you will never get it.

LOL, you were right Adam, I think this is officially the last pricing thread I will ever reply to, or even bother to read.

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

What do you think would happen if 100% of breeders stuck to their guns and didn't sell them for penny less then $500????

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I'm guessing federal indictments for price fixing and possibly racketeering?

Capitalism and free enterprise ... who knew? :rofl:

-adam

Lol!!!!

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I'm guessing federal indictments for price fixing and possibly racketeering?

Capitalism and free enterprise ... who knew? :rofl:

-adam

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Exactly!!! lol! you are spot on!

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

What do you think would happen if 100% of breeders stuck to their guns and didn't sell them for penny less then $500???? Do you think people would stop buying them?

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So you're for price fixing? That's just being greedy IMO. Supply and demand, supply and demand. You can't expect prices to stay high. IMO many prices were over inflated anyways.

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I guess some of you will never get it.

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Indeed!

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Originally Posted by monk90222

$15 a year for food?...you sure don't feed your BP that much....

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Just the one BP I have for sure. :rolleyes:

I'm not sure why this is so hard to believe.

I spend approx $1100-$1200 a year on raising rats. We feed one rat once a week to our 41 animals (not including 3 new hatchlings...)

Everyone knows I do not skimp on raising rats. I probably spend way more than most feeder breeders for the numbers we produce.

Anyways, that comes out to about $0.46-.50 per rat. Now, not all of our animals eat every week. We have 7 big animals that eat an XL to XXL rat every 2-3 weeks that require growing up. Not all of our BP's eat every week either, some just skip here and there and go on breeding fasts.

No one can really sit there and tell me I am wrong when I know what I spend and what we feed now can you?

Yes, we really do only spend between $15-35 per year average (at the highest, I am being generous) to feed our snakes and husbandry.

Newspaper is free.
Water is very very inexpensive.
I raise my own feeders.

Now, this does not include caging. Caging is not a consumable. We have spent a LOT of money on caging and racks, but we also have the option of Chris building his own steel racks.

Can I sit there and figure out the electric? No, not really, I can't since they have their heat tape and an oil heater in the room, plus, not sure how I would factor in our usage since we do have quite a few electrical units swallowing up the bill. We don't even force hot air into the snake room in the winter. The oil heater keeps it toasty and we shut the vent.


I have seen others like Deborah price the cost per rat around .40 cents.... I am sure there must be others near or below.

And no Mike, I don't pay myself for working on a hobby.

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Quote Mikey:
You know why there are lots of spiders? Because EVERYONE wants one!

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Actually, there are so many Spiders on the market because EVERYONE has one!
Like I said, Spiders are a side product from breeders that are trying to produce Albino Spiders, HoneyBees, Spinners, LesserBees, CinnaBees, BumbleBees, and every other Spider Combo.

It is completely understandable that the price of MALE Spiders is reaching the point where the average hobby keeper can afford to have one as a pet, IMO.

That does not mean that I do not support and practice selective breeding, or that I am a "market crasher."

i dont have a spider male, i do have a spider female and its a jungle cross. i also have a bee. i also tend think that the wobble tends to lead to the pricing of the spider just as much of everything else.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

No one can really sit there and tell me I am wrong when I know what I spend and what we feed now can you?

Yes, we really do only spend between $15-35 per year average (at the highest, I am being generous) to feed our snakes and husbandry.

Newspaper is free.
Water is very very inexpensive.
I raise my own feeders.

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You are correct, No one can tell you what you spend, BUT...
How are newspapers free? They cost me $1.00 each.
A bag of pine is about $7, a 25lb bag if Mazuri is about $25.
I bet the electricity that an oil filled heater uses yearly is $15 per snake.

I don't want to argue about this, if you only spend $15 per year per snake then :gj:

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Originally Posted by monk90222

You are correct, No one can tell you what you spend, BUT...
How are newspapers free? They cost me $1.00 each.
A bag of pine is about $7, a 25lb bag if Mazuri is about $25.
I bet the electricity that an oil filled heater uses yearly is $15 per snake.

I don't want to argue about this, if you only spend $15 per year per snake then :gj:

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Newspaper is free when you get it for free. 2 friends of ours send us their newspapers once in a while, and it adds up quickly.

Bag of pine pellets is around $5.50-6.50 for 40#, depending on where and when I buy it, and if I buy bulk it's cheaper. (by the pallet cheaper)

I can get a 50# bag of rat lab block for less than you pay for 25#. If I went with a different brand, it would cost me half of what I pay now for 50#

Can't measure our electric use unless we shut it off completely for the snakes. Which, we aren't going to do, so I consider it just a part of keeping the house running. It's really not very much at all.

I have done a lot of shopping and calling and pricing and data sheets. I guess I am just lucky to live where I do that I can get supplies for the prices I do. :)

But, I am apparently still upsetting the discussion with this tangent... I'll stop.

I'll add a little fuel to the fire.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=146586

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=146618

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I'll add a little fuel to the fire.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=146586

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=146618

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$100 bucks..not bad...LOL

hey im looking to buy a piebald high white. im not in a rush to drop $1500 on a snake if the price will be hafe that next year. do u guys think that the price will drop darstically in the next year or so ?

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Originally Posted by mrobert875

hey im looking to buy a piebald high white. im not in a rush to drop $1500 on a snake if the price will be hafe that next year. do u guys think that the price will drop darstically in the next year or so ?

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No.

Hope this helps.

Jamie

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Originally Posted by jglass38

no.

Hope this helps.

Jamie

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lol

No it won't. Recessive genes do not go down by much every year, they do go down, but they aren't dropping a third of the cost like other snakes are.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

And no Mike, I don't pay myself for working on a hobby.

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LOL, I am not saying you pay yourself for working on a hobby. All I am saying is when you are figuring the cost of making your own feeder, the huge amount of time that goes into it has to be figured into that cost.

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Originally Posted by rjk890

Actually, there are so many Spiders on the market because EVERYONE has one!

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Really?! Explain that to the thousands of newer keepers who when asked what morph they want to get would answer "spider"... Often times because the only morph a new bee has even heard of is a spider... The amount of people who want spiders is as high as ever.... people just don't want to pay for it.

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

The amount of people who want spiders is as high as ever.... people just don't want to pay for it.

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:bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

:bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow:

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x2

I can't believe such a simple concept like supply and demand is hard to grasp. Morphs only hold their price as long as they are limited in number. I only have one normal now and when I got him I went online and checked out the morphs, the only easily available then were albinos, spiders and pastels. Pretty high prices still. Even then it was evident they were going to drop and I've waited them out as I'm not a breeder, just a pet owner. I can wait.

The breeders are screwing themselves, people paying thousands for morphs are only doing so to breed more and make money off them. You want to complain that prices drop? Who made you pay that much in the first place? I'm curious to see how many small time breeders drop out entirely as the prices continue to go down. Also you can't act like higher prices=better care because that's complete bs. I don't see anyone raising prices on normals to ensure they get good homes or even caring where the snakes go as long as cash is in hand.

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Originally Posted by mrobert875

hey im looking to buy a piebald high white. im not in a rush to drop $1500 on a snake if the price will be hafe that next year. do u guys think that the price will drop darstically in the next year or so ?

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There going to drop ! They have fallen a lot already :rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by GoingPostal

I can't believe such a simple concept like supply and demand is hard to grasp.

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I have a simple question cause I've never understood this..

If the demand is up the supply is up and the price is down.. right??
So when demand is down then supply goes down.. does the price go back up???

Also if the demand is up but supply is down the price is up.

So I've never understood why when the supply meets demand the price doesn't hold..

I mean we talk like there are breeder not able to sale their spiders cause there's just to many of them so they drop the price..
But to my knowledge breeders are having a hard time making enough of the base stuff to keep all their customers buying..

So that sounds like demand is up and supply is down but hold on...the price is down.. Now I'm confused cause that does hold true to the supply and demand model..

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I have a simple question cause I've never understood this..

If the demand is up the supply is up and the price is down.. right??
So when demand is down then supply goes down.. does the price go back up???
not always some places to choose to leave their prices lower to move them faster

Also if the demand is up but supply is down the price is up.

So I've never understood why when the supply meets demand the price doesn't hold..

because it gets to a point where everyone starts to bandwagon and start producing more of said item. just like when a new cross comes out especially with recessives

I mean we talk like there are breeder not able to sale their spiders cause there's just to many of them so they drop the price..
But to my knowledge breeders are having a hard time making enough of the base stuff to keep all their customers buying..

this also depends on areas in chicago there might not be as much demand for a specific morph as much as say texas

So that sounds like demand is up and supply is down but hold on...the price is down.. Now I'm confused cause that does hold true to the supply and demand model..

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Originally Posted by GoingPostal

I can't believe such a simple concept like supply and demand is hard to grasp. Morphs only hold their price as long as they are limited in number. I only have one normal now and when I got him I went online and checked out the morphs, the only easily available then were albinos, spiders and pastels. Pretty high prices still. Even then it was evident they were going to drop and I've waited them out as I'm not a breeder, just a pet owner. I can wait.

The breeders are screwing themselves, people paying thousands for morphs are only doing so to breed more and make money off them. You want to complain that prices drop? Who made you pay that much in the first place? I'm curious to see how many small time breeders drop out entirely as the prices continue to go down. Also you can't act like higher prices=better care because that's complete bs. I don't see anyone raising prices on normals to ensure they get good homes or even caring where the snakes go as long as cash is in hand.

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I personally don't mind a bit seeing "Collection for sale" ads on Fauna and KS. Every day, more and more people decide they want to get into breeding Ball Pythons. They put zero thought into how they will afford the large costs of owning and breeding these animals. They put even less thought into how they will market themselves and their animals. When they can't sell an animal at market price, every day they drop the price a little more. After the first year or two, when they haven't made back what they have invested, they are out. Good riddance!

Here are some things to consider:

1. Breeding Ball Pythons is EXPENSIVE - I have invested a ridiculous amount of money over the past 5 years and only now am I starting to see even a little return. If you aren't prepared to spend the money that it takes, then maybe this isn't the right thing for you.

2. With the way prices are dropping, you aren't going to make your money back in a year if ever. If you can't handle that, then find another hobby that isn't as volatile. I suggest selling figurines on Ebay.

3. These are living creatures and you need to take some responsibility over what happens to them. That means you give them the best care possible you can and in my opinion, do your best to sell them to educated buyers. Now I can guarantee some will disagree with this and don't feel they need to take any responsibility over what happens after they leave your care. That is your choice. I can only speak for how I roll. Sometimes it's as simple as asking the right questions, sending a care sheet, etc. I have turned down sales because I don't believe the person will take proper care of the animal. That's my right and it helps me to sleep at night.

To address the person who I am quoting, for you to say that no breeders care where the normals go is a foolish generalization and completely false.

I've read a lot of this thread, but not all of it...so if I repeat something someone else has said...my apologies.

I think a primary reason the "supply & demand" point does not hold water is that we are not talking about national economics here. We're not talking about local economics either. It's not a matter of folks NEEDING certain items to get by in life and counting on other folks to produce those items.

For 98% of the people involved in this "business" of breeding and selling animals, it is a hobby. And the vast majority of those 98% have little-to-no clue about business models, price projections, market value, competition, promotion, etc etc. So...they are going to price their animals at whatever value they think best for themselves. They will usually base their prices on completely irrelevant issues...and a whole crowd of inexperienced "business people" may follow suit because if "Joebob" sells his spiders at $xx, then I'd better sell mine for less or I'll never move them.

NONE of that has anything to do with "supply & demand" driving the prices of these animals. Add on top of that the fact that we're dealing with what is essentially a LUXURY hobby....people's motivations for both buying and selling are all over the map and it will be impossible to force price trends to follow a certain desired path.

One more thing that I wanted to expand on from my previous post.

If you want to have even a modest amount of success in this hobby/business, learn how to market yourself and your animals.

1. Pictures - No, not everybody has the latest digital SLR camera and a photo studio to take perfect pictures. But please, clean the crap out of the corner of the tub, learn how to focus your camera (and don't use a cell phone camera), don't take a picture of the animal with your hair leg/ass/stomach as a backdrop. It's not THAT difficult.

2. Website - If you can't spell/use correct grammar, then get someone who can to put your website together. Also, see #1 for the type of pictures that shouldn't be on your site.

3. Communication - If you are going to post an email address, then answer emails. If you are going to post a phone number, then I don't expect to hear that your voicemail is full when I call. I can name a ton of breeders that don't ever answer emails. Email is my primary form of communication. Anyone I know will tell you that if you email me, you're likely to get a response in less than 2 hours. If you want to make the sale, you have to be accessible to your customers. And by the way, if you have a personalized domain name (i.e. glassreptiles.com), then get a personalized email address. Most web hosting companies offer them for free. I'd much rather write to bob@bobsreptiles.com then to bobsreptiles@cc.mail.roadrunner.com. Sometimes it's just the little things that make the difference. Be pleasant to your customers or potential customers. Even if you think the sale is a longshot or that the person is jerking you around to compare prices, what harm is there in being nice and accomodating. Maybe your prices are slightly higher than the other guy you are being compared to. But maybe, your little touch of extra niceness sways the buyer to purchase from you.

I think these things directly correlate to your ability to get more money for an animal than Fred down the street does.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

One more thing that I wanted to expand on from my previous post.

If you want to have even a modest amount of success in this hobby/business, learn how to market yourself and your animals.

1. Pictures - No, not everybody has the latest digital SLR camera and a photo studio to take perfect pictures. But please, clean the crap out of the corner of the tub, learn how to focus your camera (and don't use a cell phone camera), don't take a picture of the animal with your hair leg/ass/stomach as a backdrop. It's not THAT difficult.

but if i dont use my organs as a backdrop it will not attract the females of the hobby. oh yea and the super white body puts those white photo tents to shame

2. Website - If you can't spell/use correct grammar, then get someone who can to put your website together. Also, see #1 for the type of pictures that shouldn't be on your site.

huked on fonicks wurked pher me

3. Communication - If you are going to post an email address, then answer emails. If you are going to post a phone number, then I don't expect to hear that your voicemail is full when I call. I can name a ton of breeders that don't ever answer emails. Email is my primary form of communication. Anyone I know will tell you that if you email me, you're likely to get a response in less than 2 hours. If you want to make the sale, you have to be accessible to your customers. And by the way, if you have a personalized domain name (i.e. glassreptiles.com), then get a personalized email address. Most web hosting companies offer them for free. I'd much rather write to bob@bobsreptiles.com then to bobsreptiles@cc.mail.roadrunner.com. Sometimes it's just the little things that make the difference. Be pleasant to your customers or potential customers. Even if you think the sale is a longshot or that the person is jerking you around to compare prices, what harm is there in being nice and accomodating. Maybe your prices are slightly higher than the other guy you are being compared to. But maybe, your little touch of extra niceness sways the buyer to purchase from you.

you mean we have to call them and email them pics and stuff? man i thought i could be like a troll under a bridge with a webstore and just send boxes out once a week

I think these things directly correlate to your ability to get more money for an animal than Fred down the street does.

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sorry for the sarcasm everyone i had to do it.:rofl:
jamie is 100% right no this one. you dont have to sit on the phone or email but look at the missing persons over on fauna there is more than a handfull of ppl that just disappear. i dont know how many ppl have taken pics of stuff for sale and ive seen a urate or 2 it takes 2 seconds to straighten it out. and if your going to sell something you should be able to spell it i cant count how many ablion, cinamons, pasels, mojies, and the many other misspellings and typos. this doesnt mean you have to be able to type 100 words a minute just double check

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Originally Posted by JLC

I've read a lot of this thread, but not all of it...so if I repeat something someone else has said...my apologies.

I think a primary reason the "supply & demand" point does not hold water is that we are not talking about national economics here. We're not talking about local economics either. It's not a matter of folks NEEDING certain items to get by in life and counting on other folks to produce those items.

For 98% of the people involved in this "business" of breeding and selling animals, it is a hobby. And the vast majority of those 98% have little-to-no clue about business models, price projections, market value, competition, promotion, etc etc. So...they are going to price their animals at whatever value they think best for themselves. They will usually base their prices on completely irrelevant issues...and a whole crowd of inexperienced "business people" may follow suit because if "Joebob" sells his spiders at $xx, then I'd better sell mine for less or I'll never move them.

NONE of that has anything to do with "supply & demand" driving the prices of these animals. Add on top of that the fact that we're dealing with what is essentially a LUXURY hobby....people's motivations for both buying and selling are all over the map and it will be impossible to force price trends to follow a certain desired path.

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Hobbies is to businesses as apples are to oranges.

Similar yet different. Very.

When you bite into an apple you expect crisp crunchy taste.

When your orange is hard and crunchy, something just ain't right OR, you've mistaken one fruit for another and used the wrong criteria to determine what you're going to get.

who deleted the post's lol :banana:

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Originally Posted by kris62901

who deleted the post's lol :banana:

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LOL. That is so funny, right? :rolleyes:

In defense of the seller: dmaricle
How about a couple of years from now when spiders are selling for $100 or less.
I sold a spider male last year for $200 to a local guy. So I don't think $180 is too low.

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Originally Posted by Jason Bowden

In defense of the seller: dmaricle
How about a couple of years from now when spiders are selling for $100 or less.
I sold a spider male last year for $200 to a local guy. So I don't think $180 is too low.

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Not sure if it matters but it was $180 shipped.

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Originally Posted by Nate

LOL. That is so funny, right? :rolleyes:

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Nate dog is my homey... :bow:

extremely funnyyyyyyyyyyyyy :banana:

jpglass38--- Most of my snakes have shipped through fedex for about $65. Yes, shipping costs matters.
Glad to see you've kept up with this craziness you started. LOL
When I was growing up, I saved up birthday and christmas money to purchase a green iguana for $129(before taxes). Go to Texas flea market and see what they are selling for now.
By the way, this has been a fun post!

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Originally Posted by JLC

I've read a lot of this thread, but not all of it...so if I repeat something someone else has said...my apologies.

I think a primary reason the "supply & demand" point does not hold water is that we are not talking about national economics here. We're not talking about local economics either. It's not a matter of folks NEEDING certain items to get by in life and counting on other folks to produce those items.

For 98% of the people involved in this "business" of breeding and selling animals, it is a hobby. And the vast majority of those 98% have little-to-no clue about business models, price projections, market value, competition, promotion, etc etc. So...they are going to price their animals at whatever value they think best for themselves. They will usually base their prices on completely irrelevant issues...and a whole crowd of inexperienced "business people" may follow suit because if "Joebob" sells his spiders at $xx, then I'd better sell mine for less or I'll never move them.

NONE of that has anything to do with "supply & demand" driving the prices of these animals. Add on top of that the fact that we're dealing with what is essentially a LUXURY hobby....people's motivations for both buying and selling are all over the map and it will be impossible to force price trends to follow a certain desired path.

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Judy wins! This is the answer to my questions from page 20. Somebody gets it!

PM me your address, Judy. You win a prize. :salute:

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

Judy wins! This is the answer to my questions from page 20. Somebody gets it!

PM me your address, Judy. You win a prize. :salute:

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But wait didn't I say it first? I can't remember and I am NOT about to read thru this whole thread again!

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

But wait didn't I say it first? I can't remember and I am NOT about to read thru this whole thread again!

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Could be, but I'm not going back either. I thought I said it first, in a response to Wes, but I don't think anyone read it.

I have read the first 17 pages of this. After hanging around this forum and other forums, I can understand some of the reasons why prices are so low. It has much to do with what JLC posted.
It seems that there are a ton of people that want to buy and eventually breed ball pythons, this much we can agree on. There are two different types of people that are doing this. The kind that have a respect for the animals, and have the drive and common sense to do the research first, and the people who expect others to hand it to them.
I see a lot of people that buy the snakes, and then want to ask millions of questions about feeding, what morph will this make, what should I breed this snake to, etc.
Now, before I get flamed.....I understand that this is a forum, and it is a good thing to ask questions. But, a lot of the questions can already be answered in stickied f.a.q.s
And if someone is soooo very ready to jump into this business, why are they so lazy that they can not even google or web research something??? I would think that if I were going to invest in something (or some kind of animal) I would want to know as much as I could about the said investment before I stuck money into it.
The biggest problem I see here is lack of research, and lack of education. People who aren't ready to own a business that involves keeping and breeding animals.

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Originally Posted by accidental777

I have read the first 17 pages of this. After hanging around this forum and other forums, I can understand some of the reasons why prices are so low. It has much to do with what JLC posted.
It seems that there are a ton of people that want to buy and eventually breed ball pythons, this much we can agree on. There are two different types of people that are doing this. The kind that have a respect for the animals, and have the drive and common sense to do the research first, and the people who expect others to hand it to them.
I see a lot of people that buy the snakes, and then want to ask millions of questions about feeding, what morph will this make, what should I breed this snake to, etc.
Now, before I get flamed.....I understand that this is a forum, and it is a good thing to ask questions. But, a lot of the questions can already be answered in stickied f.a.q.s
And if someone is soooo very ready to jump into this business, why are they so lazy that they can not even google or web research something??? I would think that if I were going to invest in something (or some kind of animal) I would want to know as much as I could about the said investment before I stuck money into it.
The biggest problem I see here is lack of research, and lack of education. People who aren't ready to own a business that involves keeping and breeding animals.

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I would like to add all the people who jump in with no business plan or any kind of knowledge about how to properly market something. Those people who produce of bunch of baby snakes, put up an add on KS, and when they don't sell out realize that they don't have a clue what to do next, so they put up another add with drastically reduced prices, and repeat until they all have practically given away all their babies and helped to drop the market prices for the morphs they produced, because they had no idea what they were doing when they jumped in with two feet. Then they do the same thing the following year, if they don't drop out of the game after the first experience, without doing any more research and without coming up with a better plan than they had the first year.

Well your going to love this ! I got on kingsnake today and now it looks like the pied are dropping to there was 2 on there for 800.00 each pretty nice looking snakes too !

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Originally Posted by Haydenphoto

Well your going to love this ! I got on kingsnake today and now it looks like the pied are dropping to there was 2 on there for 800.00 each pretty nice looking snakes too !

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That's a great price. You should buy them. I'm sure they are perfect in every way.