PAM ripped me off?

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Originally Posted by jglass38

As eloquent as that was, my previous points stand. Have you done years of testing and research? Can you say for certain that there are no long term effects? Have you calculated how much is safe and how much becomes a danger to the animal? See, what you fail to grasp is that these are living creatures. Do whatever you want with your own animals but when it comes to making recommendations to others without your wealth of knowledge and experience, it's best to advise them to stick to products that are tested and safe for use on reptiles.

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Hartz has many dedicated fansites!

http://www.hartzvictims.org/category...from-a-victim/

http://hartzkills.org/

http://www.petitiononline.com/hartz/petition.html

The EPA has even noticed how safe their flea and tick products are.

http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/factsh...tick-drops.htm

Good news is that even though many dogs and cats have apparently been sickened or killed by their products (including the flea and tick powder), and they've been through numerous safety recalls, none of the many professional reptile breeders using their products have reported a single mishap!





..........Still looking for a similar Provent-A-Mite site............

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Hartz has their own fansite!

http://www.hartzvictims.org/category...from-a-victim/

Good news is that even though many dogs and cats have apparently been sickened or killed by their products (including the flea and tick powder), and they've been through numerous safety recalls, none of the many professional reptile breeders using their products have reported a single mishap!





..........Still looking for a similar Provent-A-Mite site............

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Yup. Hartz has always been a horrible company. This is no surprise. Great post!!

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Originally Posted by Faber

hahahaha yea it was late last night, idk why i thought you met a plastic bag. and my point here is that im out $20 and can't get a cant of PAM in my state, jerrasimite is garbage, and my snake has mites, i would love to get it taken care of today. Also i noticed some breeders have used equate and still live by it.

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Can i get a little help here..

I've used Equate for a long time. No problems.

I've never used PAM mostly because I don't like the guy who owns it, well, not him personally, but his methods. I also take with a VERY large grain of salt anything a company owner tells me about the longevity of his product. Didn't this guy try to sue against a competitor or partner or something to corner his bit of market? I seem to remember some underhanded dealings a few years ago.

It would seem to me that putting a snake in a bag with a powder that kills mites would mean that the snake was inhaling the same toxin that was killing the mites. Done in the long term, how can this not have a detrimental effect on the snake? Has anyone done any liver function testing? How about lung tissue?

Also viper, you mention that you use it religiously and regularly. How is it that you must treat so often for something you so seldom have?

Equate works, is available almost everywhere and while it may well be manufactured by a complete and total butthead, I know nothing of it as yet and that alone is good enough for me to use it. Add in the fact that it is one quarter the price of pam and I can go to just about any pharmacy to pick it up the day I need it and you can see why I use it on the rare occasions I have need of it.

It also works on rodent mites. I had a supplier that was REALLY bad for a while (one of the main reasons I started breeding my own feeders; quality control) and I used it on them with no problem, waited a couple of days and fed them to my snakes also with no problem.

Jaimie likes the guy who sells pam, has had great experience with it and is very pleased with the product. It does work, no doubt about it.

Bags and powders, while also effective, just seem to be asking for longterm problems, perhaps not seen for years after usage has begun.

Equate works, is easy to find and inexpensive.

I wouldn't be using a power on my snake that it would be breathing in. especially not in a pillow case where the chances of inhalation the power as you douse the animal is very high. to each there own. but i know if i wouldn't want to inhale it then why would my snake?

not to mention according to this site the Hartz flea and tick powers is a rather large irritant http://www.drugs.com/vet/hartz-advan...-for-dogs.html

lots of warnings. it only lasts 7 days as well so once the new eggs hatch your back to square one powdering all your snakes. sounds like allot of work for something thats not technically designed for the use people are recommending in here. its like saying "use a hammer to open your can of beans. i know its not meant for it but ive been using it for years and it has always worked for me."

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

its like saying "use a hammer to open your can of beans. i know its not meant for it but ive been using it for years and it has always worked for me."

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Hey Now, let's not get nasty about hammers. A more useful tool is hard to imagine.

If you're gentle, you can crack your eggs for breakfast, hammer your nails for work, mellow out the drunk at the bar, open your door when you get home and can't find your keys, and with one final simple step, assure you sleep soundly until you regain consciousness.

So, no more dissin the Hammer, eh?

Also, to open a can of beans with a hammer is not as easy as it sounds. Especially if it's a ballpean.

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Originally Posted by Faber

hahahaha yea it was late last night, idk why i thought you met a plastic bag. and my point here is that im out $20 and can't get a cant of PAM in my state, jerrasimite is garbage, and my snake has mites, i would love to get it taken care of today. Also i noticed some breeders have used equate and still live by it.

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PAM is always my first recommendation. However, if you can't get it, then Equate would be my second choice, based on what I've read from numerous people that I trust. I'd shoot a PM to muddoc or wilomn (just two who have posted here most recently about using Equate...not singling them out above anyone else) and ask them precisely which product to buy and how they use it.

In the meantime...to help ease your snake's discomfort immediately...make a bath for your snake (with tepid water that feels neither warm nor cold to your touch)...put in one or two drops of dish detergent...and let the animal soak in that for a little while. The soap keeps airbubbles from forming around the mites and they'll drown much faster. This won't prevent their return, but it will kill off the live ones that are bugging the snake right now.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Hey Now, let's not get nasty about hammers. A more useful tool is hard to imagine.

If you're gentle, you can crack your eggs for breakfast, hammer your nails for work, mellow out the drunk at the bar, open your door when you get home and can't find your keys, and with one final simple step, assure you sleep soundly until you regain consciousness.

So, no more dissin the Hammer, eh?

Also, to open a can of beans with a hammer is not as easy as it sounds. Especially if it's a ballpean.

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oh but i love the hammer. I was just pointing out that using the correct tool for the job is much less time consuming, enables you to exert less effort. an in most cases the end result is no longer a crap shoot because of the lack of variables. for example. Can opener vs. Ball peen hammer. great hammer.... not so great for opening a can in a timely manner with out beans on your face... ceiling and walls :P and don't even try to open dog food... the strays will be scratching at your door for weeks.

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

oh but i love the hammer. I was just pointing out that using the correct tool for the job is much less time consuming, enables you to exert less effort. an in most cases the end result is no longer a crap shoot because of the lack of variables. for example. Can opener vs. Ball peen hammer. great hammer.... not so great for opening a can in a timely manner with out beans on your face... ceiling and walls :P and don't even try to open dog food... the strays will be scratching at your door for weeks.

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Excellent point on the dogfood. I prefer a framing hammer for that kind of work. I like the nice straight claws, so heavy and shiny and oh my, I'll be right back....

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Originally Posted by Faber

Can i get a little help here..

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I had a nasty mite outbreak a year or so back. Studded out one of my males to a friend (does that sound right?)- he came back with some mites.

The EBV was out of PAM and I'm too lazy to read about how to safely apply the other methods. I was directed to a local nursery that uses and sells hypoaspis mites.

I was skeptical but they gave me free container to use and I'll be dad-gummed if it didn't work. After reading up on the web I was surprised to find out that they are frequently employed to eliminate snake mites.

I know you can get them on-line and some nurseries where I live carry them.....I have no idea if they are available in your area.