Most doctile snakes? I think not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justind

I don't think that has to do with the amount of space. More likely it's because a ball python living in Africa has never seen a human and is certainly not handled everyday by one, that and they have to deal with parasites and predators.

I would have to agree with wuldier and aSnakeLovinBabe, a large enclosure can work but it takes a lot more effort to provide a suitable environment. I would think that most people that keep their BPs in huge tanks do not properly provide a suitable environment. It's more simple to tell someone to switch their snake to a tub or a smaller tank than to give them instructions on how to make a 100g tank work.

---

i concur

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by beardedragon

go to the big open africa and try to find a tame ball:p

---

rflmao

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Faber

Then idk what a BP would do with all that space in Africa.

---

Africa is for wild snakes, your livingroom is not Africa. Apples to oranges.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wuldier

before my Boa was even 4ft long i had him in a 8ft by 4.5ft by 4ft custom tank set up and he loved it! of course he got HUGE! and needed it regardless but it took a while!

---

Boas are not ball pythons. Most boas are active hunters that naturally hunt both on the ground and in the trees. Ball pythons are ground dwelling, ambush predators. Different species, different needs.

It's not impossible to have a small ball python in a huge enclosure but it is a lot of work and a huge committment from the owner to do it right. You will need multiple hides, you will need to enclose the sides and back of that huge tank, you will struggle with humidity and temperature issues. You will need multiple heating sources, controlling devices for those heating sources and digital monitoring devices to keep track of temps and humidity over that much space. Under tank will be better since overhead lights suck up humidity and with a glass tank of any size retaining humidity is always an issue. This is why it's often suggested to go with smaller tanks or tubs. Ball pythons like small areas plus the owner can care for the enclosure and make it right for the snake. No large enclosure is ever workable if it's unstable and the owner isn't able to manage it properly

As for the snake, you've indicated this is a very young BP. It's likely had very little to no handling before you got it unless you got it from a very small home breeder who has the time to handle every baby they hatch. Even if handled, baby BP's are naturally defensive. Their instincts drive them to be this way since in the wild environment they would be just as much prey as they are a predator at that age. Captive born or not, those age old instincts of self-preservation exist in these snakes. In other words, defensive striking and hissing is pretty much normal in very young snakes.

I would suggest you focus for now on making sure this big environment is stable across the board, holding proper temps and humidity, providing multiple hiding spots and so forth. Make sure there is very little open area. Make sure the tank is not in direct sunlight or in drafts and is not in a busy area of your home. Stop letting your friends handle the baby, it doesn't need that stress. Until it's firmly established in your home and eating well, I wouldn't even suggest you handle it much. That will come later.

Speaking of feeding. What does it eat? How often does it eat? What was it eating and what style of feeding was being used by the previous owner? Did that owner breed this snake personally or was it just the vendor? How much does this snake weigh currently? This information is very helpful when it comes to identifying some of the possible stressors on a very young snake.

As far as being docile, please remember these are never tame pets. They are, captive born or not, wild creatures driven by instinct. They are not pack or herd animals. They can come to accept us in their lives but their instincts do not drive them to need to do that. Respect the snake for what it is but more importantly, for what it is not.

A lot of my females are extremely docile. Although I was holding one before and she Bit me right on the forehead, I looked in the mirror and had 4 dots of blood on my forehead, it didnt make me mad, it was rather funny. I named her Dottie, cuzz she dotted me. Ive come to find out she is aggressive 24/7 I bought her as an adult, when she bit me i only had her a short while. I never realized she was so aggressive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aSnakeLovinBabe

guys whether or not snakes thrive in smaller spaces, you simply cannot deny that if you use a large enclosure RIGHT, as in providing what the snake needs, just on a larger scale, and more of it, there is NO reason a larger that necessary cage won't work. Africa is just a really really large enclosure, full of small dark places to hide. It doesn't hurt them to have extra space, even if they won't use it most of the time. If a person prefers to house a snake in a larger-than-is-absolutely-neccesary-for-survival enclosure, and is still able to provide the snake everything it needs... really, what is the harm in that?! I am not saying snakes WANT more space, but there is no harm in providing it for them if it's used right. (Please don't get mad at me, I am just tired of seeing so many people brought down for wanting to keep their snakes in large roomy enclosures with a bit of freedom to do as they please, if they wish.) I understand that some people feel insulted when told that a rack system is not enough space, and feel the need to defend themselves with the reasoning that the snakes thrive, but still, if a person wants to provide their snake with a mini africa and has the means to do it without harming or freaking out the snake, let them! I already do it with several of my snakes, (who else puts a garter in a 75 gallon?!) and once we move I can assure you I will do it with more of them!

---

I agree with you that it CAN be done - but the number of people who successfully do it is small. How many people are going to break down a 110 gallon tank at least once a month - completely to disinfect it?

A proper temperature gradient is next to impossible to maintain in an enclosure that large. Heck, a 20 gallon long was challenging for ME to keep the temps and humidity correct. And it resulted in a ball python that refused to eat for 8 months for me. He ate fine in the beginning and then he "told" me that he wasn't happy by his behavior. The week after moving him to an appropriately sized tub, he started to eat on a weekly basis again.

MOST people won't have the commitment and be willing to spend the money necessary to properly set up an enclosure that large, to ensure everything is perfect - multiple heat pads, multiple thermostats to control those heat pads, multiple digital thermometers with probes to monitor those temps, not to mention back up thermostats to put the first thermostats on.

First I think it is important for those that say the bigger the enclosure the better realize that we are talking about a Ball Python here, and no we cannot compare captivity with the wild, it just does not work that way.

Now back to the ball python obviously here is a prime example yet again that large enclosure are not bet for a ball python, this ball python is obviously stress and whether you believe it or not this is due to it’s husbandry.

A young BP should be housed in a suitable housing, as an adult can you try to house him in something bigger? Yes you can but the question will be can you provide suitable housing in a 110 gallons, a housing that will meet your BP’s need? In this case the answer will be not likely. (Providing a gradient from 80 to 90 degrees will likely be impossible in 110 gallons unless you are willing to spend money and time to make sure you do so same goes for providing a constant 50% humidity)

Few people in this thread based their advice on what they feel they would want if they were a snake, or what THEY want but not what his best for a BP.

Personally I will base my advice on what I know has been working over the years with the vast majority of BP owners who have experienced problems.

BP are not like any other snakes they cannot be compared to colubrids they cannot be compared to boas.

BP are docile (remember docile does not mean they are domesticated like a dog or a cat) but if their environment does not meet their needs it will create issues such as aggressive behavior, fasting etc. What is being observed now is likely only the beginning add extreme stress to improper husbandry and this will likely also lead to a RI and other issues.

Bottom line whether large enclosure work or not for some species when done right in this specific case the enclosure is not suitable which is why the OP has problems, so you can say a big enclosure can work all you want but in this case it doesn’t and saying the enclosure is ok is NOT HELPING solving the problem.

Now let’s try solving this problem.

Solutions

Move your BP into a suitable enclosure being he is a young BP use a 15 quarts tub or a 10 gallons enclosure.

Provide 2 TIGHT identical hides (hides must be snug all sides touching your BP’s body)

Provide proper temps gradient 80-84 on the cool side 90-94 on the warm side (Not what I provide but those are temps that work very well with new owner or problem BP.)

Provide 50% humidity at all time

Of course both of the above (temps and humidity) need to be measured with a digital device not a dial or stick thermometer or hygrometer that are very inaccurate.

Stop handling your BP for a while until he fully adjust to his new environment.

Once settled in try feeding him if successful you can than start handling your BP 10 to 15 minutes every other day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aSnakeLovinBabe

guys whether or not snakes thrive in smaller spaces, you simply cannot deny that if you use a large enclosure RIGHT, as in providing what the snake needs, just on a larger scale, and more of it, there is NO reason a larger that necessary cage won't work. Africa is just a really really large enclosure, full of small dark places to hide. It doesn't hurt them to have extra space, even if they won't use it most of the time. If a person prefers to house a snake in a larger-than-is-absolutely-neccesary-for-survival enclosure, and is still able to provide the snake everything it needs... really, what is the harm in that?! I am not saying snakes WANT more space, but there is no harm in providing it for them if it's used right. (Please don't get mad at me, I am just tired of seeing so many people brought down for wanting to keep their snakes in large roomy enclosures with a bit of freedom to do as they please, if they wish.) I understand that some people feel insulted when told that a rack system is not enough space, and feel the need to defend themselves with the reasoning that the snakes thrive, but still, if a person wants to provide their snake with a mini africa and has the means to do it without harming or freaking out the snake, let them! I already do it with several of my snakes, (who else puts a garter in a 75 gallon?!) and once we move I can assure you I will do it with more of them!

---

:bow::bow::bow: Thank you!!!. I have approximately four different hides for my baby ball python in the 55 gallon. He is able to get from one side of teh tank to the other with out ever showing himself. And then I also have Two Checkered Garters in a 40 gallon tank. Finally I am not the only one with a garter or two:banana:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lewdogg3

Both of you guys really need to put your desires aside and think about the animal. They prefer the dark tiny spaces rather than the wide open spaces. Many ball pythons will roam their enclosure because they are stressed out. They are trying to find a comfy tight dark space where they can slither into. I really don't think it's wise of you guys who are just starting in the world of ball python keeping to think your doing the right thing for the animal. You have a ton of people here telling you that the way you are doing it is not the right way, all of the people telling you keep many snakes, they also have bred them and have very healthy animals. You guys really need to rethink the way your keeping your BP. It shouldn't matter how it looks to you, The snakes health is more important than your own desires. I started out like you guys, I had my first snake in a big tank and it didn't work out, with the help of all these people here I was able to get my stuff together and now I have more than a couple snakes ans they are all healthy.

---

My desires aside????? Now if you actually saw my set up you would realze that the 55 gallon tank that I have for my baby BP stays at optimal temps and humidty... has multiple hides, he is able to get from one end of the tank to the other with out ever showing himself...... Adapted the very first day to his tank, An Excellent eater, very docile and gentle, Has never balled up on me or my son during the day or night....... And it works for him and I. Just starting into the world of BP's? Lets see I have been a reptile caretaker going on a few years now.... Just only recently added my baby (after my boyfriends two BP's have hit the adult stage). The snakes health is more important than your own desires.? Now I just got back from an initial check up on my baby and the vet has given him a very clean bill of health thank you. So before you attack me for my husbandry, please consider that you do not know me, my setup, or my snake.

Its not hard to maintain a 110 gallon at all. Especially in upstate new york where its currently about 75 degrees out. and i live upstairs so my room is almost perfect for my snake i think. He has plenty of hides in his tank. i think you guys are dwelling that you think this is my first time coming in contact, when i have like 5 years expierence, i just never met an agressive one. As far as matienence goes, its not hard. Put him in a tub, throw out the bedding, clean the tank, put in new bedding, put in the rest of his stuff. and i have two UTH's and a heat lamp, but i haven't used the lamp in the past two days cause its been hot in my room, and i have the two uth's. Btw they should definatly without a doubt have 12 hrs of light or so? i'm just askin cause i have a window in my room and i know they hate the overhead light. and ill probably buy another smaller hide, but even though most people say they are ground dwellers, which is what i always thought too, if you put them vines in their tank you might see otherwise, as you can tell from my pictures.

Also, i fed him a frozen fuzzy.