Is Major a normal?

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Originally Posted by illaoi

would you sell your car and house in exchange for a snake's life? would you go homeless? go without food?
your virtue has constraints like anyone else's. please don't judge.

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If you cannot afford to keep the animal you shouldn't have it. Sometimes animals have to be put down, but not using the logic you are using. Calculations like you are making are done by machines. Machines have no empathy and no soul if you believe in that sort of thing. No one needs the kind of math that you are doing. We are all aware of the calculations. It cost me less than I have paid for a snake to bring a human into this world. I can make humans for free. Does that mean the baby does not have value and I should just let it die rather than paying for a hospital visit when it gets sick?

You, whoever you are have a problem. Luckily I do not have to deal with it. I predict you will soon be gone from here.

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Originally Posted by illaoi

what kind of idiotic logic is that. as far as you know the person he got it from unambiguously told him it was a normal and only after the fact his cousin said it wasn't a normal. if the person was being deceitful he would have said it was a pastel het pied, seeing as there is just so much controversy regarding the morph

fallacy of composition ftw

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The person he bought if from told him it was a "Normal het Pied". It is obviously not a "Normal het Pied". My logic had nothing to do with the seller being deceitful at all. It had to do with them not having a clue what they were selling, as it is obviously not a normal.

When a seller doesn't know what they have when it comes to a simple single gene phenotype, such as Pastel, why should I expect them to know what they are selling when it comes to the heterozygous recessive part? Call it "fallacy of composition" if you want - I call it being informed and cautious about what you purchase and who you purchase it from.

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Originally Posted by Stocksy

How would that determine if Major is het or not? If i bred him to a visual pied, wouldn't their offspring be visual anyways? Thank you for complimenting my snakes. I love them! Lol. From what i have been told, is it safe to say i have a Pastel?

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There should be visuals produced if Major is truly "het" pied. There will also be other morphs produced that will be het pieds as well. Remember there is also the factor of his percentage of het pied that will also play into it. Also, hets don't always prove out the first time and may need to be bred several times before they do. So at the end of the day a part of the clutch should be visual pieds if Major proves out.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

There should be visuals produced if Major is truly "het" pied. There will also be other morphs produced that will be het pieds as well. Remember there is also the factor of his percentage of het pied that will also play into it. Also, hets don't always prove out the first time and may need to be bred several times before they do. So at the end of the day a part of the clutch should be visual pieds if Major proves out.

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I have no idea about the percentage. Previous owner just told me he is a normal het pied. I'm not going to go crazy trying to work it out though. I'm sure i will find out in time once i increase my knowledge. I have been looking on Genetic Wizard ans it tells me that, if i breed Kia(Spider) and Major(Pastel), i would still produce normals. I find that rather bizarre as neither of them are normal. Lol.

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Originally Posted by Stocksy

I have no idea about the percentage. Previous owner just told me he is a normal het pied. I'm not going to go crazy trying to work it out though. I'm sure i will find out in time once i increase my knowledge.

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Since you were told he was a Normal het Pied, there are no percentage to worry about. :)

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Originally Posted by Stocksy

I have been looking on Genetic Wizard ans it tells me that, if i breed Kia(Spider) and Major(Pastel), i would still produce normals. I find that rather bizarre as neither of them are normal. Lol.

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Welcome to the land of the Odds Gods! Statistically speaking, you could breed a 10 gene animal to another 10 gene animal and still produce a normal. Oddly enough, you have the same chances in that pairing to produce the 20 gene animal as you do the 0 gene animal. Go figure, right?

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Since you were told he was a Normal het Pied, there are no percentage to worry about. :)

Welcome to the land of the Odds Gods! Statistically speaking, you could breed a 10 gene animal to another 10 gene animal and still produce a normal. Oddly enough, you have the same chances in that pairing to produce the 20 gene animal as you do the 0 gene animal. Go figure, right?

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Turned out not to be a normal at all. I might tell myself that he lied about that also. So a normal can pop out in any combination of pairings? Why does that happen?

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At it simplest you get one gene from the mom and one gene from the dad. If a snake has 2 copies of a single gene it will not produce a normal snake. This is where the hobby term super comes from. 2 copies of a single recessive gene gives you a visual recessive.

Pied is generally considered a recessive gene.

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Originally Posted by Stocksy

So a normal can pop out in any combination of pairings? Why does that happen?

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Not any combination, but most combinations, yes. Rather than write a novel here, these are some links you might find helpful to start your dive into genetics:

1. Intro to Reptile Genetics: http://www.newenglandreptile.com/genetics_intro.html
2. Simple Recessive Genetics: http://www.newenglandreptile.com/gen...recessive.html
3. Double Heterozygous Genetics: http://www.newenglandreptile.com/gen...recessive.html
4. Incomplete Dominant/Dominant Genetics: http://www.newenglandreptile.com/genetics_codom.html

Have fun!

EDIT: Also, this link from our site is a good one: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...Basic-Genetics

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Not any combination, but most combinations, yes. Rather than write a novel here, these are some links you might find helpful to start your dive into genetics:

1. Intro to Reptile Genetics: http://www.newenglandreptile.com/genetics_intro.html
2. Simple Recessive Genetics: http://www.newenglandreptile.com/gen...recessive.html
3. Double Heterozygous Genetics: http://www.newenglandreptile.com/gen...recessive.html
4. Incomplete Dominant/Dominant Genetics: http://www.newenglandreptile.com/genetics_codom.html

Have fun!

EDIT: Also, this link from our site is a good one: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...Basic-Genetics

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Thank you for those. Hopefully, they are explained in Leyman's terms, cos i need to start from the beginning. Lol.

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I would worry that whoever sold you the snake really did not know what he had, and may have swapped the real "normal het pied" with this "pastel" and you might not have the pied gene in there at all.

Good luck though, the odds gods are often kind.