Single genes are "boring"...

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Originally Posted by Tzeentch

And the point was to see if anyone else shared the philosophy of not hatching out single genes. It was never to bash on single genes or people who want to hatch them

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I never thought you were bashing on anything. I just pointed out valid reasons to want to breed something other than your maximum possible gened out snakes. The more you add in the mix the lower your odds on each individual possibility.

I like the well planned projects that use 2 or 3 different genes...it usually ends up with an animal that has a lot more pop than a normal, but it hasn't gotten muddied up by too many different genes...

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Originally Posted by Tzeentch

I will just never be the guy who breeds his Lesser to a normal. I see no point in hatching ONLY Lessers (yes, they are awesome in their own right.)

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Have you ever hatched out a clutch of Lessers?

I don't necessarily agree that single gene balls are boring, but I would prefer breeding multi genes to multi genes, just because I get a thrill from seeing how the odds worked out and what kind of snakes will be in the clutch. There's nothing cooler to me than seeing 5-8 different colored snakes coming from the same parents!

But, I would also enjoy a normal x normal breeding because I love hatching eggs and baby snakes, no matter what their phenotype is, are adorable. I just don't think I could breed a normal x normal out of responsibility for the fact that there is little to no market for normals here.

I definitely disagree! I love our normals and single gene animals just as much as any other animal.
There is also one thing when it comes to breeding and selling animals that no one brought up and that is your reputation as a breeder. I believe that you need to start out with single gene animals and more simple combos to start with to build your reputation in this hobby/industry.
I know I am more likely to make a higher dollar purchase for a multi-gene animal from someone that has put their time in and has built their rep from the ground up. Rather than someone who just shows up trying to sell 3-4+ gene animals.
Having a good rep is also very important when you are dealing with combos such as a Pastel BEL as you have used in your example. There is no way I would purchase one from someone that doesn't have a good rep. because of the risk involved with such an animal.
Just my :2cent:

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Originally Posted by Tzeentch

And the point was to see if anyone else shared the philosophy of not hatching out single genes. It was never to bash on single genes or people who want to hatch them

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I get what your point is now, you just worded it kinda awkwardly in the first post i think.

Youre saying its boring knowing that in a lesser x normal pairing theres only a chance to get lessers or normals. You think its more exciting when theres the possibility for multi gene snakes to pop out and multiple different combo possibilities. I get what youre saying now i think. Im still kinda the opposite though i think. If i produce a male super cinny then the next year ill probably just pair him with the mom to better my odds to 50% supers. I think its more of a personal preference. Im a very right brained person so having to deal with a surprise of the possibilty of hatching out like 16 different combos would be too much for me lol. Super cinny x cinny is more my style. The babies would either be cinny or super cinny. No big surprises haha.

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Originally Posted by angllady2

To each their own.

However I for one completely disagree with you. I have 3 completely normal females in my collection. However, one of those normals was selected for extreme lightness, and when bred to my vanilla male, produced offspring that were lighter and brighter than the vanilla pastels another breeder produced. He took his snakes to 5 shows before they sold, even though he had them very reasonably priced. Mine sold at the first show I took them to.

This season, my biggest normal female, who carries a lot of blushing, was bred to my fire male. And even though her babies have another month before they hatch, any fires that hatch are already sold. Just from the pictures of her and him, people are lined up to get her babies, because people recognize they should be excellent representations of the morph.

Two gene animals can be very nice that is true, but they can also be as poor or poorer than a single gene. I've seen Fireflies that were just as browned out as most Pastels, which results when people just throw any two animals together without considering the quality. I've seen Bumblebees I could barely tell apart from a Spider. I've also seen one Bumblebee who was so spectacular I would have sworn it was at least a three or four gene animal.

I've seen NERD stuff in person. Most people oooooh, and aaaaah over their 4 and 5 and 6 gene stuff. You wanna know something? I saw plenty of multi-multi gene stuff that was no more interesting than most normals. So what if it's a 6 gene first-of-it's-kind, if the snake is about as interesting to look at as drying paint. I saw a handful of single gene snakes at Tinely Park I had to back up and look at twice, and some of those multi gene snakes I barely glanced at.

Gale

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:gj: :grouphug: im with you 100% love my normals!

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Originally Posted by Tzeentch

I will just never be the guy who breeds his Lesser to a normal. I see no point in hatching ONLY Lessers (yes, they are awesome in their own right.)

I will however breed my Lesser to my Pastave and have the potential to hatch Pastel BEL, BEL, Pastaves, Pastels, Lessers and even normals. If I ended up with all Lessers or Majoves, that is fine. Its the POTENTIAL that is more EXCITING.

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That's fun and exciting in its own right, sure. However, anyone really can play that game. All you have to do is look up online what it takes to make your desired combo of choice, plug and play, and pray for the odds. (Not that it's THAT easy, granted -- but still.)

What is more challenging, to me, is figuring out how to improve on the next generation. That doesn't necessarily mean "How do I pack more genes in there?" A super spinner blast that was made with brown pastels, a dull, spotty spider and a dark, busy pinstripe may look okay on its own, but is likely to produce crummy-looking offspring.

I wouldn't breed a lesser to a normal just to produce more lessers. That would be getting close to "boring," IMO. (As much as any snake breeding could really ever be called "boring ..!" :O) However, I might do so to improve on my lesser bloodline. That's a bit more challenging than breeding my lesser to my mojave to produce BELs, because I knew (because I read it on The Interwebs) that all I needed to make my BEL was a lesser and a mojave. To improve on my lesser, I'd have to look at him, figure out what I want to improve on him (reduce the pattern, lighten up the colors, etc.) and then find a female that I thought would compliment him nicely.

The clutch itself might not seem as "exciting" as the BEL clutch, but in some ways, I think that owning an A+ knockout lesser that I produced using careful selective breeding is more impressive than a BEL that I produced by looking up the ingredients online and praying to the Odds Gods. ;) (Not that the Odds Gods weren't real good to me -- but still.)