Big Gunns answer to a pm from JLC

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Originally Posted by shescountry89

Thatta boy Big Gunns :) Keep it up! :gj::gj:

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So, let me get this straight, you actually approve of sinking ships that are within their rights to harvest whales? Regardless of your opinion, whether it's wrong or right, do you honestly approve of piracy on the open waters.

All you have to do is look at the Sea shepherd's flag that it flies under. It's a Jolly Roger Flag. A flag that is internationally known to be a flag flown on pirate ships.

They admit to being pirates, but they are doing it for the good of the whale. Well, as long a Japan doesn't take more than their quota, they are doing NOTHING illegal. Immoral yes, big time, but not illegal. So when Neil says Japan is illegally killing whales, he is wrong.

As long as the Internation Whaling Committee approves of the number of whales Japan can harvest, it is a LEGAL action. Even if they say they are doing it all for research, they are within their rights to take that specific number of whales according to the IWC.

I jsut looked it up on the internet, it's actually called the International Whaling Commission.

If you have issues with Japan's whaling, this is where you should be directing your anger.

Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

Did
you read your response before you sent it to the board? That sounds
rediculous. It's okay to sink a million dollar ship and put a few dozen
human beings in danger? And for what, your own personal interpretation
of "International Law"? When did the Sea Shepherd group become
marshalls of the sea? I don't agree with what Japan is doing, but to
purposely sink a ship to prove your point is going way too far.

Have you watched that group of imbecils on that ship? They can't do
anything without screwing things up. The best was running a 4 inch rope
to try to foul the prop of the Japanese ship. However, they attached
the rope to about 400 pounds of steel pipe. Did they actually think
that the rope running through 400 pounds of steel pipe was going to
float long enough to catch a prop?

If this is your idea of memorializing Steve Erwin, you've got a funny
way of showing it. He believed in education.

Jim Smith

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Big Gunns will agree with you on the "interpretation" of the law.
However, BG thinks we can all agree they are not taking the whales for
"scientific research". There would be no need to say that if they were
within the "law".

Steve Irwin was going to go on a campaign before his death. BG has no
way of confirming this, but since the ship was named after him with the
blessing of his wife, BG believes this to be true.

As far as the "imbecils" as you put it on the ship. BG will not
criticize people who are risking their life with no real training to
save the whales. Sure most of them are not real sailors, but BG salutes
them for their dedication to a cause they believe in.

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

How are they "illegally killing whales"? They
are mandated to a number of whales they can take. This coming from an
international committee that is responsible for whaling. True, they say
they are doing it for research, but we know it's not. But with that
said, they NEVER harvest more than their quota.

Sound illegal to me...NOT.

Sinking ships because you don't agree with the policy of an internation
whaling committee, wrong. Any way you look at it.

Don't get me wrong. I don't agree with Japan's harvest of any whales,
but as long as the committee approves of their actions, what can you do?
Try to change the voting for next year. If that doesn't work, don't
inact your own justice. That's illegal in almost every country.


Jim Smith

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Like BG stated earlier. Clearly they are bending the law to suit them.
"Scientific research" BG's perfect behind.

Look, BG knows what SS does is a leeetle extreme, but like BG said
earlier. The people on this forum would advocate nuclear weapons if they
were saving Ball Pythons from "scientific research".

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Actually, this is incorrect if I recall correctly.
I seem to remember seeing some data about "incidental" kills of whales
that were not accounted for in allotments. Fishing net drownings,
collisions with boats and, I think, one other weird one that left
perfectly usable dead whales who had died is ways that were difficult to
prove or disprove and were not accounted for at all.

It was a lot of whales and not just Japan doing it.

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Nope it's not just Japan doing it, and SS is going to the Faroe Islands
next to challenge them. Now this could get real ugly.

Well BG has to ask. What would you guys suggest they do and what are you
doing about it? BG can see through what you're really doing here.
Debating with Big Gunns in the hopes of proving him wrong because you don't like Big Gunns. Both of you
could really care less, but keep trying on the BG thing. You may not
realize it, but EVERYONE can see your real motives and they're sad....sad and pathetic.

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

So, let me get this straight, you actually approve of sinking ships that are within their rights to harvest whales? Regardless of your opinion, whether it's wrong or right, do you honestly approve of piracy on the open waters.

All you have to do is look at the Sea shepherd's flag that it flies under. It's a Jolly Roger Flag. A flag that is internationally known to be a flag flown on pirate ships.

They admit to being pirates, but they are doing it for the good of the whale. Well, as long a Japan doesn't take more than their quota, they are doing NOTHING illegal. Immoral yes, big time, but not illegal. So when Neil says Japan is illegally killing whales, he is wrong.

As long as the Internation Whaling Committee approves of the number of whales Japan can harvest, it is a LEGAL action. Even if they say they are doing it all for research, they are within their rights to take that specific number of whales according to the IWC.

I jsut looked it up on the internet, it's actually called the International Whaling Commission.

If you have issues with Japan's whaling, this is where you should be directing your anger.

Jim Smith

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BG knows all about the IWC. Come on Smitty. You know it's not "scientific research".

One more thing. BG isn't out on that ship. BG is in Japan with the hopes of letting the rest of the world know what they're doing in "The Cove". Now that is perfectly legal in Japan, but BG doesn't approve of it and hopes to have the law in Japan changed. There are many others in Japan that feel the same way and BG is now working with them to help change their law.

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

Neil wouldn't make a blister on Steve Erwin's baby toe. So what, he goes to Japan and keeps an eye on the people killing dolphins. What is that doing other than allowing him to puff his chest, and say what a great job he's doing.


Jim Smith

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Maybe not, but Big Gunns can spell his name correctly at least.:P:D

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

How are they "illegally killing whales"? They are mandated to a number of whales they can take. This coming from an international committee that is responsible for whaling. True, they say they are doing it for research, but we know it's not. But with that said, they NEVER harvest more than their quota.

Sound illegal to me...NOT.

Sinking ships because you don't agree with the policy of an internation whaling committee, wrong. Any way you look at it.

Don't get me wrong. I don't agree with Japan's harvest of any whales, but as long as the committee approves of their actions, what can you do? Try to change the voting for next year. If that doesn't work, don't inact your own justice. That's illegal in almost every country.


Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Actually, this is incorrect if I recall correctly. I seem to remember seeing some data about "incidental" kills of whales that were not accounted for in allotments. Fishing net drownings, collisions with boats and, I think, one other weird one that left perfectly usable dead whales who had died is ways that were difficult to prove or disprove and were not accounted for at all.

It was a lot of whales and not just Japan doing it.

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All that you have pointed out in your statement is true, however I was talking about the ships the Sea Shepherd allegedly sunk. These ships do not use nets (they are harpoon ships), and collisions with boats happen all over the world which in my opinion are not intentional killings.

The Japanese fleet is not "illegally killing whales" as Neil has been quoted many times. They are immorally killing whales to be sure. But to sink a ship only because you disagree with the International Whaling Commission decision to allow these killing to continue, is wrong.

Deer hunting on Sunday is illegal in many states, but if you are a property owner, you can harvest deer on your property 7 days a week. If you don't agree with this law, should you be allowed to stop the property owner from harvesting deer on any day, becasue you've seen him harvest a deer last Sunday?

Change the law if you disagree, but leave the property owner alone. You don't have the right to take "your interpretation of the law" into your own hands.

Same goes with the Sea Shepherd and it's members.

Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Big Gunns will agree with you on the "interpretation" of the law.
However, BG thinks we can all agree they are not taking the whales for
"scientific research". There would be no need to say that if they were
within the "law".

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But they are within their rights to harvest a certain number of whales. This is mandated by the IWC. Regardless of what they are doing with the whales, they are allowed a certain number of whales to be harvested. If you can understand my meaning here, they are NOT breaking any laws prescribed by nations around thw world. But just because a small group thinks they should be stopped, does not mean they are harvesting illegally. Regardless what SS believes, as long as the IWC allows them to do research on the whales, then use them for food, no laws are being broken. Regardless of what a few SS members believe.

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Steve Irwin was going to go on a campaign before his death. BG has no
way of confirming this, but since the ship was named after him with the
blessing of his wife, BG believes this to be true.

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If it can't be proven, then why did you mention it? Sound like you're trying to legitimize your beliefs again.

Quote:

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As far as the "imbecils" as you put it on the ship. BG will not
criticize people who are risking their life with no real training to
save the whales. Sure most of them are not real sailors, but BG salutes
them for their dedication to a cause they believe in.

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There's no denying they are breaking the law but they do it in the name of the whales. So, who's acting upon illegal grounds here?

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Like BG stated earlier. Clearly they are bending the law to suit them.
"Scientific research" BG's perfect behind.

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The IWC allows Japan to harvest these whales after the research is completed. I know, it's a veiled attempt to make things look better. But if the IWC would say that upon the end of the research, the whales have to be returned to the sea, there would no issues because we all know that Japan would not be doing this research if they weren't allowed to harvest the whale meat. So, why isn't the SS going after the IWC? This wouold seem like this is where the problems lie.

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Look, BG knows what SS does is a leeetle extreme, but like BG said
earlier. The people on this forum would advocate nuclear weapons if they
were saving Ball Pythons from "scientific research".

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Not at all, at least for me. Unlike most here, my snakes are just animals to me. Growing up on a farm gives you a unique view on animals. We ate many of our "pets". these pets where cattle and chickens.

If ball pythons were found to have the ability to cure cancer in all human beings, I'd be the first in line to give up my snakes. No big deal. At least not for me.

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Nope it's not just Japan doing it, and SS is going to the Faroe Islands
next to challenge them. Now this could get real ugly.

Well BG has to ask. What would you guys suggest they do and what are you
doing about it? BG can see through what you're really doing here.
Debating with Big Gunns in the hopes of proving him wrong. Both of you
could really care less, but keep trying on the BG thing. You may not
realize it, but EVERYONE can see your real motives and they're sad....sad and pathetic.

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What are you doing about the betterment of the human race? Do you support any groups that feed the hungry? Do you support any groups that help children with deformations? Do you even help the United States Servicemen when they come home and need medical treatment? What have you done for the human race?

You want me to be mad (to the point of breaking the law) to help save whales when we as a race can't seem to help each other. I've got my hands full helpiing where I can make changes and you want us to believe your fight is more important than mine? I'll take my punches for the human race, thank you!

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BG knows all about the IWC. Come on Smitty. You know it's not "scientific research".

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Again, regardless of their reason, the governing body says they can kill a predetermined number of whales. I know, it's wrong, but it's not illegal.

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One more thing. BG isn't out on that ship. BG is in Japan with the hopes of letting the rest of the world know what they're doing in "The Cove". Now that is perfectly legal in Japan, but BG doesn't approve of it and hopes to have the law in Japan changed. There are many others in Japan that feel the same way and BG is now working with them to help change their law.

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Again, it's not illegal. The "Cove" is a cultural issue. As long as the Japanese culture accepts the consumption of whale and dolphin meat, what do you expect to change. Sure, take videos and send it across the globe. Take it to the masses. But you know what? The Japanese culture is as old or possibly older than most and they are a proud people. They probably won't take kindly to someone in the US or Europe telling them their culture must be changed.

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Maybe not, but Big Gunns can spell his name correctly at least.:P:D

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Yeah, there's where you want to take this discussion. At least I know what the word illegal means. Piracy is another good word too. If this is all you've got, you've been in salt water a little too long.

BTW, do you even give blood to the Red Cross to help your fellow man? If so, then maybe there is hope for you.

Jim Smith

BG, Do everything you can to save any and all animals, they need all the help they can get. Once we killed to live. Now some live to kill.

Wow crazy crazy respect for what you are doing!!! That is amazing!! I have to say ...I did not watch the video...can't do it...sorry. Long story maybe someday when I meet you in person I will tell you about it.
I think what you are doing is amazing and very unselfish thing to do.

Koneecheewa

Big Gunns forgot the "cultural" argument. They have not been killing Dolphins for hundreds of years...whales yes...but not Dolphins. It's a dumb argument(not to them BG knows that) really. So what if they've been doing it for millions of years. Should the world sit by and let a country wipe out all the Dolphins and Whales because it's part of their "culture"?

You could probably consider having slaves as part of the white mans "culture" at one time also, but that day has come and gone. BG will agree that they can make the argument that it's part of Taiji's "culture" to kill Whales, but not Dolphins. If you go to the Taiji Whale museum you can see an old whaling ship with a pic on the wall of the whalers killing a Right Whale. They don't kill them anymore though because they don't see any. HMMMM...wonder why.:confused: If they don't change their "culture" soon it's going to be changed for them, because there won't be any Cetaceans for them to have a "cultural" experience with.:taz:

No they are not at all happy about foreigners being in their country trying to tell them to stop what they're doing. Who would be? BG knows you wouldn't be happy if some Japanese told you they wanted you to stop shooting every animal that steps foot on your property Smitty. BG is sure of that, but that doesn't mean we can't try and stop the killing. BG suspects that some of you assume that he could care less about the people of Taiji. That's the farthest thing from the truth. BG is not going to go into this more right now, but he will in the future. Big Gunns always has a plan.:)

Smitty, you have already stated that you could really care less about animals, so why waste your breath here? There's really only one motive that BG can see....and so can everyone with a brain. You are obviously motivated to help the Vets and other humans and BG applauds you for it. Big Gunns may be one great human, but he can't do everything. He will leave that mission up to you for now. BG hopes you can handle it.

Nobody said this fight was going to be easy, but just because it's hard doesn't mean that people shouldn't try. The obstacles here are HUGE. BG has met very many dedicated people that are determined to win this for the Whales and Dolphins though. They are not going to give up and neither is Big Gunns.

Now can BG please get back to learning Japanese? This is really messing up the BG study plan.:rage::rage:

Sayounara;)

I kind of understand where Jim is coming from though I think temper/frustration got in the way of translation. I do believe Jim supports the idea of what you are doing....just not in the way you are doing it. I can appreciate his point of view on that. I also think he is someone out there helping someone or something....just in a different way. I certainly do not want to take sides here....and I am not trying to. I can just see both sides of the coin. I have a respect for Jim as I have gotten to know him on the forum. I as well have a high respect for you as you have always given others great advice. (not to mention the fact that you often crack me up).:P

Personally ....I don't care what it takes to save the animals.....just do it! (but that is me and it goes back to that story I would have to tell you over drinks...:rolleyes:) However with that being said.....everyone is entitled to think that some measures are too extreme and we should respect their beliefs and agree to disagree on how far you take conservation measures.

I think we could all remember to have a little respect for everyone feelings/beliefs and be a little more courteous to each other. (thats the Michelle speaking...not the moderator speaking). Holy crap I sound quite liberal there huh.....:rofl:

Big Gunns' message is simple...

DO SOMETHING.

That's really it.

How he does it and how you do it may be different, but arguing over the "how" in this thread dulled the message.

I understand what Big Gunns is saying. I've been saying it too. Coming from the Philippines, it is really amazing the "luxuries" people enjoy over in the US, so much so that you see a lot of people more "internalized" - that is, more self-centered (I don't mean to use that word as an insult, I don't know what word to use in place of it to convey what I'm trying to say).

That is, more people are worried about themselves and their inner circle - the house, the car, the TV, football, etc. etc. and getting depressed so that they have to take medication to function. In the Philippines, it is very rare to see medicated psychological problems. You see people who go to the sea to fish in the morning for their day's meal - they catch a fish, they eat, they don't catch a fish, they starve, better luck tomorrow. These people are one of the happiest people I've met. They are social people - they help each other. Their challenges are so great that they don't sweat the small stuff - no need for zolopf there! I've seen a fisherman catch 2 fish - one for lunch, one for dinner. I walk by with my fishing pole empty (I'm a city woman) and the guy invites me to eat with his family. I'm wearing Nike shoes, a Lacoste shirt, a Tag Heuer watch - items that are probably worth more than the house the guy lives in. Yet he has no problem asking me to share his 2 fish with his family as he sees my empty fishing pole.

Experiencing that and living in America shaped my outlook in life. This world is not about me. This is about all of us - humans, animals, plants, everything. I'm just a speck of dust in the scheme of things. But, I know that as human beings, we are the only ones that have the capacity to reason... and CHANGE something.

So yeah, helping each other is a great cause. Everybody should do it. And helping wildlife is just as great - because we are the only ones that can affect change there.

So, the message is clear - GET OUT THERE AND DO SOMETHING.

THANK YOU BIG GUNNS for bringing a spotlight to this message on this forum.

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Originally Posted by anatess

Big Gunns' message is simple...

DO SOMETHING.

That's really it.

How he does it and how you do it may be different, but arguing over the "how" in this thread dulled the message.

I understand what Big Gunns is saying. I've been saying it too. Coming from the Philippines, it is really amazing the "luxuries" people enjoy over in the US, so much so that you see a lot of people more "internalized" - that is, more self-centered (I don't mean to use that word as an insult, I don't know what word to use in place of it to convey what I'm trying to say).

That is, more people are worried about themselves and their inner circle - the house, the car, the TV, football, etc. etc. and getting depressed so that they have to take medication to function. In the Philippines, it is very rare to see medicated psychological problems. You see people who go to the sea to fish in the morning for their day's meal - they catch a fish, they eat, they don't catch a fish, they starve, better luck tomorrow. These people are one of the happiest people I've met. They are social people - they help each other. Their challenges are so great that they don't sweat the small stuff - no need for zolopf there! I've seen a fisherman catch 2 fish - one for lunch, one for dinner. I walk by with my fishing pole empty (I'm a city woman) and the guy invites me to eat with his family. I'm wearing Nike shoes, a Lacoste shirt, a Tag Heuer watch - items that are probably worth more than the house the guy lives in. Yet he has no problem asking me to share his 2 fish with his family as he sees my empty fishing pole.

Experiencing that and living in America shaped my outlook in life. This world is not about me. This is about all of us - humans, animals, plants, everything. I'm just a speck of dust in the scheme of things. But, I know that as human beings, we are the only ones that have the capacity to reason... and CHANGE something.

So yeah, helping each other is a great cause. Everybody should do it. And helping wildlife is just as great - because we are the only ones that can affect change there.

So, the message is clear - GET OUT THERE AND DO SOMETHING.

THANK YOU BIG GUNNS for bringing a spotlight to this message on this forum.

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Quite frankly one of the BEST posts I've read online in a very long time. Thank you!!