News: 2 die in rock python attack

I don't think we'll truly know cause of death until the autopsy is released. From what I gathered, the bite marks were what sealed the deal, but it has not been 100% confirmed. Not looking good either way :/

Just listen to it like everybody else has to...It's a long video and a lot is said.

It'll make you more sad than angry. There's not a lot to get angry about, other than the negligence of the owner.

Everyone vote! No account required.

http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/community/poll-results

I listened to the entire interview and I am shocked and saddened. The interviewee said the police had already released the scene and that there were bite marks on the children, so the authorities were absolutely sure the snake was the culprit. He named his source as an RCMP officer. I still am having a hard time imagining would could have happened, but so far it appears that what we all fear is true.

S

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Originally Posted by hig

Everyone vote! No account required.

http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/community/poll-results

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Done


Everyone do this; there are 401 people on here (guests and users included). That's a lot of votes

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Originally Posted by Slitherous

I listened to the entire interview and I am shocked and saddened. The interviewee said the police had already released the scene and that there were bite marks on the children, so the authorities were absolutely sure the snake was the culprit. He named his source as an RCMP officer. I still am having a hard time imagining would could have happened, but so far it appears that what we all fear is true.

S

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:puke:

Done, I voted NO!

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Originally Posted by hig

Everyone vote! No account required.

http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/community/poll-results

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voted! No.

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Originally Posted by hig

Everyone vote! No account required.

http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/community/poll-results

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Done. I voted no.

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Originally Posted by Emmastaff

It does seem strange that two were killed. Very odd, seems like there has to be more to the story...

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Yeah, things just don't add up.

So sad.

This is really sad.

I still don't believe it. Bite marks prove nothing to me. I want to see if the autopsy reveals that the boys show signs of death from the snake constricting them.

What is to say it was not a homicide and the killer pried the snakes mouth open to place bite marks on the boys implicating the snake as the killer? It is also a far fetched conclusion but now a days anything is possible.

I want to hear from the third boy....He heard nothing? I don't believe it.

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Originally Posted by hig

Everyone vote! No account required.

http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/community/poll-results

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71% voting yes.... :mad::mad::mad::mad:

Snakes in the province this occurred are only allowed to be those that get to a maximum of 3 metres. This was a 4.5 metre snake, so it was already illegal (unsure the owner may have had an exemption allowing him to keep it).
So, clearly, a "ban" would not have even prevented this single tragedy(unless they figure out a way to ban "stupid" effectively).

I cannot imagine keeping any snake of this size in a building with small children and not having the animal in a locking cage, in a lockable room. We can tell kids to not do some things but, that can just make it more attractive to some of them.
Then, if I have an escapee of this size, having more children over would not even enter my mind, the wife and kids would be at a hotel until either the animal or its' corpse was recovered.

There is already talk of an outright ban on all pythons (the tree-hugging ci-diots from groups along the lines of PETA are asking for an "all exotics ban", bye-bye to your gerbil junior) because you know those balls, woma's, children's and GTP are sooooo lethal even in the care of a moron(ignore the sarcasm if you are a mouse, rat or, ASF).
If it comes to pass we will spend millions on a stupid law that still won't fix stupidity and has only claimed 2 lives that I am aware of in my 40+ years, ignoring stuff like educating kids about water safety with that same money potentially saving easily 10,000 times as many young lives for the same cost over the same period.

That the owner was in the business just ticks me off even more. This should be a no-brainer, being responsible and teaching responsibility ensures his livelihood, this..... well this just messes up every single one of his potential responsible customers.

/rant off

I may have to run that through "Talking Tom" and play it back until I cool down.

i voted, and i will keep voting every 24 hours until the poll closes.

(i have a variable IP adress that changes at least every 24 hours and the provider has a pool of tens of millions of IP adresses. Really. Pollsters from the USA often forget that.)


Also, i made a thread redirecting to this thread in General BPs, specifically about the impact it has on BPs, and mirrored the poll over there because it clearly would hit ball pythons.

Should the City of Ottawa ban all exotic snakes? Yes or No, poll open.

ottawa.ctvnews.ca/community/poll-results

VOTE. (currently: 71% for 29% against at 1533 votes)

one other thing: to better coordinate our response, and our anger and grief, maybe some temporary changes to the website could make sense. Like a banner redirecting to a page that links to the different threads about this and that contains some information. Maybe the forum section this thread is in needs a more prominent place, its currently a sub-forum not visible unless you click on "General Herp" first. Maybe this incident temporarily deserves its own subsection directly in "Site General". I dont know what exactly, a banner would make sense, but i think the structure of this forum can maybe help in focusing energy and providing structure for our response.

It;s gone down a little, it was 73% when I voted. Amazing how ignorant the general public is when it comes to herping.

S

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

Sounds like it is confirmed then that it is the snake that killed the kids then??

Correlation does not imply causation. The presence of bite marks is not conclusive enough IMHO to determine if the snake actually did kill the kids.

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If I felt like it, I could go out right now, open a couple houses with hungry girls in them and get myself some really impressive bites.

Or, I could pull out a gentle, cowardly BP and pry his mouth open, guaranteeing a few accidental snags.

Then again, I could pry open a Boa's mouth and approximate "milking it", using my hand instead of a collection cup.

None of the above would constitute a real attack...but they'd look pretty good/bad.

This still just reeks.

I 'smell like animals' 24/7 by merit of having my dogs lounging over me all the time.

None of my snakes has ever mistaken me for supper.

So here is my question. .if they put an outright ban on exotics, what does that mean? Are those of us with snakes already grandfathered in for those snakes or do they just expect us to gather our babies up and deliver them to a location for a mass killing???

This is the worst thing to happen to the reptile hobby since the burm killed the little girl.
In fact, this is much worse.

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Originally Posted by norwegn113

So here is my question. .if they put an outright ban on exotics, what does that mean? Are those of us with snakes already grandfathered in for those snakes or do they just expect us to gather our babies up and deliver them to a location for a mass killing???

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right now its just a media poll that is still open, and it asks for a ban of all exotic snakes in Ottawa.


But now stuff like this could happen for real. And then it could mean anything. Worst case would be that there comes a law, and before the law goes into effect all snakes affected by it have to be evacuated outside of the area of influence of the law before it goes into effect. And when the law goes into effect all animals affected by the law in that jurisdiction turn illegal and/or get rounded up and euthanized. Maybe they even put some punishment on possession.

Really, it could be anything, in the USA some species can no longer be moved across state lines and are outlawed in some states, and it means breeders stop breeding them because they cannot move the snakes to potential customers.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion...159/story.html
Get there like I did! Like my little "essay" at the bottom of the comment section too. ;)

Oh I love the idiots commenting about how keeping exotics is for ego and vanity and not in the best interest of the animal.
I hope you still have that opinion when you see people with hamsters or fish or go to the zoo,

Yeah it's all over. I was just on BHBs facebook page. They posted a "guess what snake this is" picture and someone commented underneath it with:

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I really don't care what kind of a snake it is.....a snake strangled two young boys in Canada last night. Should not be viewed as pets.

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Probably only going to get worse.

They have already 'destroyed' it (there words not mine)
So they didn't even wait till atrophy to kill it

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Originally Posted by pythonminion

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion...159/story.html
Get there like I did! Like my little "essay" at the bottom of the comment section too. ;)

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Good job, i would like it if i had facebook!

Everyone still needs to go to ottawa.ctvnews.ca/community/poll-results and vote.

Quick Poll, August 6, 2013
Should the City of Ottawa ban all exotic snakes?
YES 1103 (70 %)
NO 477 (30 %)

Total number of votes: 1580

I honestly don't know why everyone on the internet is quick to blast away Fox News.
Greta had a segment tonight where she discussed the incident and in it, a man from the Columbus Zoo in Ohio was interviewed. Her first question, should giant pythons be kept as pets? He never said no and the media, for once, let him get away with it and explain it! :D He went on to compare the numbers, stating that thousands of these animals are kept as pets, and, our continued favorite fact, comparing 10 deaths in 20 years to over 200 with dogs and how rare a snake-related death was. Albeit, he still mentioned how powerful they are, and how aggressive hungry snakes are. But that isn't a lie, isn't it? Maybe that isn't dissuading a lot of people watching it, because snakes are reincarnations of Satan anyway, (sarcasm) but hey, he was hell of a lot more accurate than other media outlets! :) At least give Fox News credit for that one.

It seems that the most common theory is that the snake was used to cover the murder of these two boys or the snake killed these two boys. If those are the two options, I hope the snake did it.

Regardless of whether the snake "did it" or not, everything else stands. The snake isn't "responsible", shouldn't be killed, isn't an evil killing machine, etc. If the snake is in fact what killed the kids, the snake's keeper is responsible, not the snake. I'd rather know that these boys each briefly awoke to find they were being constricted by a snake than to know they briefly awoke to find they were being strangled by an adult human being they trusted. I'm a mother before I'm an animal lover. The biggest tragedy here isn't the potential impact on the reptile world. That's big, for sure, but it's not the worst thing here.

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Originally Posted by BrandiR

It seems that the most common theory is that the snake was used to cover the murder of these two boys or the snake killed these two boys. If those are the two options, I hope the snake did it.

Regardless of whether the snake "did it" or not, everything else stands. The snake isn't "responsible", shouldn't be killed, isn't an evil killing machine, etc. If the snake is in fact what killed the kids, the snake's keeper is responsible, not the snake. I'd rather know that these boys each briefly awoke to find they were being constricted by a snake than to know they briefly awoke to find they were being strangled by an adult human being they trusted. I'm a mother before I'm an animal lover. The biggest tragedy here isn't the potential impact on the reptile world. That's big, for sure, but it's not the worst thing here.

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Well, the fact is, this has become one tragedy, and is evolving into another. The loss of life in the two young children, whom had a good life ahead of them, is horrible. That's bad for the kids not having a future, and the family who lost two wonderful ecstatic children is heartbreaking. And my deep condolences to them.
However, a new tragedy is on the horizon, with a saddening situation like this being manipulated for revenue by the media is at the expense of reptile lovers and owners. These poor kids lost their lives, unfortunately, but now thanks to money greedy hands and radical naturalist, thousands will be losing their livelihoods.

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Originally Posted by pythonminion

Well, the fact is, this has become one tragedy, and is evolving into another. The loss of life in the two young children, whom had a good life ahead of them, is horrible. That's bad for the kids not having a future, and the family who lost two wonderful ecstatic children is heartbreaking. And my deep condolences to them.


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I just wanted for this to be acknowledged and it didn't look like it was going to be, at least not to the degree it should have been. I wanted to know that people give a crap about those kids as much as their snakes. Nicely put. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by norwegn113

So here is my question. .if they put an outright ban on exotics, what does that mean? Are those of us with snakes already grandfathered in for those snakes or do they just expect us to gather our babies up and deliver them to a location for a mass killing???

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Look up pit bull BSL....I feel it would be the same thing. In certain places they gave 1 month to rehome your pit (elsewhere), and if you did not comply then they would come, take it, and euthanize it

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Originally Posted by BrandiR

It seems that the most common theory is that the snake was used to cover the murder of these two boys or the snake killed these two boys. If those are the two options, I hope the snake did it.

Regardless of whether the snake "did it" or not, everything else stands. The snake isn't "responsible", shouldn't be killed, isn't an evil killing machine, etc. If the snake is in fact what killed the kids, the snake's keeper is responsible, not the snake. I'd rather know that these boys each briefly awoke to find they were being constricted by a snake than to know they briefly awoke to find they were being strangled by an adult human being they trusted. I'm a mother before I'm an animal lover. The biggest tragedy here isn't the potential impact on the reptile world. That's big, for sure, but it's not the worst thing here.

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Is it sad that two kids died? Yes.

Am i more saddened over the impact it'll have on my hobby? Yes.

Kids die all the time from all sorts of causes. Casey Anthony killed her kid without any snakes and she got away with it. I really think this guy did it and he sucks for dragging down our hobby with it.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Is it sad that two kids died? Yes.

Am i more saddened over the impact it'll have on my hobby? Yes.

Kids die all the time from all sorts of causes. Casey Anthony killed her kid without any snakes and she got away with it. I really think this guy did it and he sucks for dragging down our hobby with it.

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Im going to have to agree with mike on this. Do I think its sad that these kids died, yes, but there is nothing we can do about that. Its like the mom a few months ago who went crazy and drove the wrong way on the autobahn and killed herself and her kids. Sad yea, why arnt we banning cars and autobahns??? Because people die and kids die every day on the streets. No one thinks twice about it, it doesnt make international news. Kids shoot eachother in the inner cities, teenagers overdose on drugs, kids drown in swimming pools, kids and people die every day probably every minute or more and no one thinks twice about it. Two kids die in a tragic accident involving a snake, which im still skeptical of, and everyone wants to jump in and start taking peoples rights away. Its not right and its not ok.

Swimming pools....everyday living in AZ some kids drowned....every...single...day.

It is horrible and by no means do I have no ache in my heart for such a sad event but swooping down and already starting this "should we ban" BS is stupid.

Today is 'jungle week' at my youngests school.
I recieved permission so I am bringing my homie Tank with me to show these little kids and teachers that there is no reason to fear.
I encourage everyone to spread the factual info and love.

I didn't say that snakes should be banned over this. In fact, I specifically said that the specific owner of that specific snake should be held responsible and no one else, snake included. Just because I didn't add one more, "This is crap! The snake didn't do it!" to the previous 17 pages of, "This is crap! The snake didn't do it!" that doesn't mean that I don't agree with everything that's been said. I just think that loss of life, especially the lives of children trumps loss of....well, anything else.

It's evident from reports of how he kept his animals and his past problems that this guy owning potentially dangerous animals was an accident waiting to happen. I think it's pretty ridiculous that anyone would look at this case and not be able to see that. Again- I am not advocating for a reptile ban. I'm simply advocating for a little compassion for the two little boys that are dead, regardless of how they died.

The snake hit 66 2/3%!

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Originally Posted by BrandiR

I didn't say that snakes should be banned over this. In fact, I specifically said that the specific owner of that specific snake should be held responsible and no one else, snake included.

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And in a rational world that is exactly what would happen, but the average non-herper isn't all that rational about snakes. My understanding is that this snake was already being kept illegally and it has been euthanized, so it has also paid the price for its owner's stupidity and irresponsibility.

They're playing close to the vest on the autopsy reports. One would think that if it fits the theory, then they'd blab it to the world the second it was confirmed.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4

http://video.foxnews.com/v/258923795...=1821663211001

Foxnews.com put out this 2 minute video this morning stating that the owner called the snake "vicious" and that he wanted it put down. If you watch half way through the video they show a picture of the boys and say "this snake, nearly 14ft long" the screen splits and they show images of a BP and a small clip of a BP being held as they reference the Rock python...Fail.

I'm really trying to reserve judgement about this entire case until more conclusive evidence is brought forward, but right now, I wouldn't put this keeper below anything. He sounds like he needs to be brought in and questioned, if you ask me.

forget fox, just ignore it.....


while other mainstream media often gets things wrong, or fails to research properly, fox deliberately distorts the truth and disinforms people.

its the only news channel where viewers are less informed about issues than people that do not watch any news at all.

EDIT: and yes, im still waiting for autopsy reports / files being charged / results from the investigation. It looks very bad, but at the same time its not yet solid.

I just wish there were an easy way to get the general public to understand not all snakes are the same. The arguments I'm seeing the most as a result of this are:
- Snakes aren't domesticated and shouldn't be kept as "pets"
- Snakes are killers and dangerous and shouldn't be kept in captivity
- Snakes are wild animals and shouldn't be kept in captivity
- Snakes can't be properly provided for and therefore shouldn't be kept in captivity
- Most people can't properly care for a snake, therefore no one should keep snakes
- Snakes eat live animals, which are cruelly kept and bred, and therefore it is cruel to keep snakes in captivity
- Snakes don't have affection for people, therefore aren't "pets"
- Snakes become invasive species that eat native wildlife in threatened habitat, therefore no snakes should be kept in captivity any where

There might be a few more, but those are the big ones. It isn't hard to refute any of those, but people who are blind and deaf won't listen or see reason, nor will the see or hear the fallacies in their own arguments.

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Originally Posted by sorraia

I just wish there were an easy way to get the general public to understand not all snakes are the same. The arguments I'm seeing the most as a result of this are:
- Snakes aren't domesticated and shouldn't be kept as "pets"
- Snakes are killers and dangerous and shouldn't be kept in captivity
- Snakes are wild animals and shouldn't be kept in captivity
- Snakes can't be properly provided for and therefore shouldn't be kept in captivity
- Most people can't properly care for a snake, therefore no one should keep snakes
- Snakes eat live animals, which are cruelly kept and bred, and therefore it is cruel to keep snakes in captivity
- Snakes don't have affection for people, therefore aren't "pets"
- Snakes become invasive species that eat native wildlife in threatened habitat, therefore no snakes should be kept in captivity any where

There might be a few more, but those are the big ones. It isn't hard to refute any of those, but people who are blind and deaf won't listen or see reason, nor will the see or hear the fallacies in their own arguments.

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On this topic of general public ignorance, one of my co-workers just came up and asked me if I was getting rid of my snakes now, I calmly asked why. Their response was "well you have a 5 year old and you have two killing machines in your house, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night." I have a corn and a baby BP hardly what comes to mind when I hear "killing Machine" I tried explaining that a ball python and corn are not even in the same category as a rock python, but their response (not sure why it suprised me) was "a snake is a snake is a snake". Trying to get them to understand I said "well do you own any dogs?" They have a pug, so I asked "people die every year from dog attacks, shouldnt you get rid of your pug?" I thought that logic made perfect sense, apparently I was wrong. They got frustrated, told me I "am not making any sense because dogs don't intentionally hurt people, and Ill never understand"....they then walked off. WHAT!?

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

On this topic of general public ignorance, one of my co-workers just came up and asked me if I was getting rid of my snakes now, I calmly asked why. Their response was "well you have a 5 year old and you have two killing machines in your house, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night." I have a corn and a baby BP hardly what comes to mind when I hear "killing Machine" I tried explaining that a ball python and corn are not even in the same category as a rock python, but their response (not sure why it suprised me) was "a snake is a snake is a snake". Trying to get them to understand I said "well do you own any dogs?" They have a pug, so I asked "people die every year from dog attacks, shouldnt you get rid of your pug?" I thought that logic made perfect sense, apparently I was wrong. They got frustrated, told me I "am not making any sense because dogs don't intentionally hurt people, and Ill never understand"....they then walked off. WHAT!?

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It would have taken everything in me not to punch that person in the face and tell them I hope they never reproduce as I spit in their face and walk away..... I mean yea... I would never really do that, but thats what goes through my head and how frustrated I get.

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Originally Posted by eatgoodfood

It would have taken everything in me not to punch that person in the face and tell them I hope they never reproduce as I spit in their face and walk away..... I mean yea... I would never really do that, but thats what goes through my head and how frustrated I get.

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Hahah ya it was pretty frustrating, but I figured maybe this would have been a chance to educate someone...I figured wong:colbert:

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

On this topic of general public ignorance, one of my co-workers just came up and asked me if I was getting rid of my snakes now, I calmly asked why. Their response was "well you have a 5 year old and you have two killing machines in your house, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night." I have a corn and a baby BP hardly what comes to mind when I hear "killing Machine" I tried explaining that a ball python and corn are not even in the same category as a rock python, but their response (not sure why it suprised me) was "a snake is a snake is a snake". Trying to get them to understand I said "well do you own any dogs?" They have a pug, so I asked "people die every year from dog attacks, shouldnt you get rid of your pug?" I thought that logic made perfect sense, apparently I was wrong. They got frustrated, told me I "am not making any sense because dogs don't intentionally hurt people, and Ill never understand"....they then walked off. WHAT!?

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*face palm*

That's exactly the kind of ignorance that is the loudest to scream and the hardest to fight. And you know what? Small dog breed compared to smaller docile snake and a large dog breed compared to a larger snake species isn't even a good comparison! Small dogs are known for biting and bad attitudes. Many a vet tech and shelter worker I've talked to have said they've been bitten far more often by small dogs than large dogs. The only reason you don't hear about it is because their bites don't do as much damage as a larger dog (usually). Compared to a docile ball python that would bite once in a blue moon, if even that often, a small dog is like Freddy Krueger!

And to say dogs don' intentionally hurt people is idiocy at its best. Most well trained, properly socialized, and well cared for dogs may not intentionally hurt someone, but there are plenty of poorly cared for, untrained, unsocialized dogs out there who WOULD bite! Personally... when I am out in my monitoring areas, working as a biologist, I would much rather come across a snake (even a venomous rattlesnake!) than a loose dog... The snakes at least try to avoid me. A couple of the dogs I've come across have actually growled at me, and some have even made like they were going to attack. I carry my Taser in case I come across a hostile human, but I carry my pepper spray in case of dog.

This all just seems RIDICULOUSLY fishy. Teeth marks? Did the the python go have a nibble and then slither away? And there's no way they got bit without being eaten silently. And the third boy just sat around and watched?
Even if they were smothered, there's still the collapsing ceiling...
It all just seems like a bunch of people automatically pointing their fingers at the snake because they're "scary" animals. I really hope the snake is still kickin' and will be moved in with someone who can actually take care of it properly.

Even with all this, my grandparents are still begging my dad to forbid snakes in the house. Pffff.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

On this topic of general public ignorance, one of my co-workers just came up and asked me if I was getting rid of my snakes now, I calmly asked why. Their response was "well you have a 5 year old and you have two killing machines in your house, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night." I have a corn and a baby BP hardly what comes to mind when I hear "killing Machine" I tried explaining that a ball python and corn are not even in the same category as a rock python, but their response (not sure why it suprised me) was "a snake is a snake is a snake". Trying to get them to understand I said "well do you own any dogs?" They have a pug, so I asked "people die every year from dog attacks, shouldnt you get rid of your pug?" I thought that logic made perfect sense, apparently I was wrong. They got frustrated, told me I "am not making any sense because dogs don't intentionally hurt people, and Ill never understand"....they then walked off. WHAT!?

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Tell them they should worry less about your pets if they care about your kids then they should condemn you for keeping household cleaners first. Afterall we want to address the most deadly things first. http://www.poison.org/stats/

Damn that Mr. Clean, Damn him. :colbert:

An updated link from Canadian news source CBC
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-br...oys-vigil.html

Questions raised about exotic pet laws
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...ws-canada.html

Or you could point out that they should start lobbying the supreme court to make all swimming pools illegal, including public ones. http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreation...factsheet.html

Or maybe they should ban bathtubs. http://www.tomkileylaw.com/library/c...achusetts.html

Hell, lets just ban water.

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Originally Posted by OctagonGecko729

Hell, lets just ban water.

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Yeah, this incident has started a storm of fear mongering and mis-information.

The vast majority of people commenting on exotic animals and bans don't realize that the bird they love, the 'domestic' dog they own or the plants they adore are actually all ... wait for it .... EXOTIC.

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Originally Posted by el8ch

Yeah, this incident has started a storm of fear mongering and mis-information.

The vast majority of people commenting on exotic animals and bans don't realize that the bird they love, the 'domestic' dog they own or the plants they adore are actually all ... wait for it .... EXOTIC.

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I made a comment about that on one article, and got called stupid for it! :rofl:
I'm a biologist... "exotic", "invasive", and "native" are a very large part of my professional vocabulary.