Big News Coming Tomorrow!

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Sean,

No need to eat crap over anything. Simple misunderstanding. I'm happy you can see what I was saying now though. I read what you said about deserts and really analyzed it, since like i said, i don't have experience with the gene. But when i was comparing the two snakes side by side, it wasn't adding up. From what the OP said, these two snakes are siblings from the same clutch that amir hatched:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/08/hypuze9y.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/08/2y7unuve.jpg

The first one, I agree, DOES have desert in it. The second one, the OP's snake, just looks like a citrus pastel to me. Especially for being clutchmates, they look very different to me. This is why I asked the OP for baby pics. I'm wondering if Brant misunderstood the same thing and if his opinion would change?

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Mike... thanks I just ate lunch and I don't think I have room in my stomach for anything else LOL I see what you were saying and now it all makes sense. I wonder if Brant feels the same way too. I can't say for certain that it isn't but definitely not a slam dunk

So, some have converted to thinking this is not a desert?


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Originally Posted by jsmorphs2

I'm also confused. Isn't the top picture the OP's girl as a baby? Sorry I don't have time to surf the whole thread again.

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Clarification: The following three pictures are all of the same snake, the "Citrus Pastel Desert" that laid this clutch we're all talking about. Color coded circles highlight identifying features throughout the three pictures.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ps0fa735f7.jpg
^OP's baby picture


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...psf339869b.jpg
^Recent picture of the same "Citrus Pastel Desert" from another thread by OP


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...pse283b1c9.jpg
^Same snake, on eggs.


Personally, I don't see Desert in the above snake. Whether or not you do, you can make up your own mind based on the available pictures, but if you think the first one is a plain Citrus you have to concede that the snake on the eggs is a plain Citrus. The inverse is also true.

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Originally Posted by Sean : EbN

The pattern being heavily keyholed. The color on the sides where the yellow of the sides goes into the dorsal, it is a bit dirty and on a Desert that is so small it should be very clean. Lastly the eye stripe at the back of the head is blurry whereas on most Deserts the eye stripe is very defined, looks like it was drawn on with a pencil. Again I thought the OTHER photo was the OP's snake as a hatchling not this one.

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I wish WOBP utilized their option and listed descriptions this detailed, it would really help some of us that are not into certain morphs.
(especially all the "new" ones that look normal to me ;) )

I am not really into the deserts and only know what I have heard and read about them. I do know this could be HUGE of our hobby and I am interested in seeing the outcome of the clutch.

I will be a little saddened should we have to lock this thread because some people cannot control themselves during a debate and have to resort to name calling and mudslinging. Lets leave that for our government officials that suck our tax dollars dry. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

: I do realize people miss odds all the time. You guys are pulling out these examples but out of ALL the clutches you've hatched, im sure the odds were overall better for you all.

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This is true, 'the odds' really only work out on a large sample size, 6 or 7 eggs is really too small to be statistically significant. Which is why NOT producing any morphs in a clutch this size would not be definitive proof of either it's existence or lack thereof

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Originally Posted by Family Reptiles

This is Mike from Family Reptiles here in Lakeland, FL. Congratulations on your Desert clutch. Scott and Elizabeth, the owners of Family Reptiles, also have a viable clutch of eggs from a Desert female currently in the incubator and it is due to pip in a couple weeks. We also know of a few other breeders that have viable desert clutches and we are all trying to compare notes as to what factors may have been involved in the success. If you are willing, Scott would love to chat.

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Whoa. Wow. Such terrific news. We lost a number of gravid animals in our facility fire, I can live vicariously through others on this journey. Best of luck to all.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

This is true, 'the odds' really only work out on a large sample size, 6 or 7 eggs is really too small to be statistically significant. Which is why NOT producing any morphs in a clutch this size would not be definitive proof of either it's existence or lack thereof

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very true. Didn't think about it in reverse to what I was saying haha

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I will be a little saddened should we have to lock this thread because some people cannot control themselves during a debate and have to resort to name calling and mudslinging. Lets leave that for our government officials that suck our tax dollars dry. :cool:

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Behaving myself and double checking what I type just like you taught me papa bear. ;) :p

I wish the OP took pics to document this, then made the post AFTER the eggs hatch! If no deserts in the clutch, try again next year. The snake didn't look desert to me, and comparing pics of confirmed deserts, I still feel the same way. There is no way to say for sure the snake in question is a citrus desert until proving out the genetics. It is irresponsible to say otherwise. I don't know the "big names" that have been thrown around, but I take with a grain of salt the opinion of someone who has 8.22 snakes of this combo saying the snake in question is a viable citrus desert. That is simple buyer beware stuff.

OP: Best of luck! Words to the wise, next time you discover gold: prove it is gold then capitalize on it, don't blab to every man and his dog where you found a piece of yellow rock! Your business model, wife and kids will thank you for it.

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

So, some have converted to thinking this is not a desert?


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I was under the impression that we were arguing over this snake...
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/08/hypuze9y.jpg

I thought the OP snake was this animal. You still shouldn't think that everyone supporting a claim is doing so for profitable gain. If that was so I wouldn't have said half the things I said about the animal in the other photos (i.e. talking about distinct identifying points) When one of the other posters asked me to be clear about which animals I said wasn't a Desert is when I realized that I had misunderstood one of the posts from pages ago. Believe it or not there are some people who want to desperately see the Desert gene clear of all the bad stuff but for the betterment of the morph not profitability.

I apologize for calling you ignorant unless you have a problem with the animal in this ^^^^ photo being a Desert since it was the one I was talking about all along. :rolleye2:

There is so much hidden stuff with the Citrus line that we all still have yet to figure out. I bet the Citrus in her had something to do with it.

If Amir says it's a Citrus Desert, then it's a Citrus Desert.

Congrats. This is huge.

Sorry if I missed it, but what temps were you keeping her at?

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Originally Posted by Family Reptiles

This is Mike from Family Reptiles here in Lakeland, FL. Congratulations on your Desert clutch. Scott and Elizabeth, the owners of Family Reptiles, also have a viable clutch of eggs from a Desert female currently in the incubator and it is due to pip in a couple weeks. We also know of a few other breeders that have viable desert clutches and we are all trying to compare notes as to what factors may have been involved in the success. If you are willing, Scott would love to chat.

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Whoa....Now there are more viable clutches. Maybe things are turning around for the desert gene. I agree the OP probably should have waited for the clutch to hatch before posting but hey this is exciting stuff. I think the baby pics were taken in crappy lighting and that makes the snake look more pastelish (new word :weirdface). I have never seen a 1600gram female Citrus Pastel Desert so I am not going to pass judgement until the clutch hatches but I do have my fingers crossed that baby deserts will appear in that clutch.

I hope the other breeders with viable clutches are taking good notes to pass on to the rest of the community. Very interesting stuff.

Now, if they choose to sit on the notes after they get good useful data, THEN I could see that there was a vast Desert Gene Conspiracy under way.

Pretty cool; I feel like I'm watching history being written here....

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Originally Posted by Coopers Constrictors

There is so much hidden stuff with the Citrus line that we all still have yet to figure out. I bet the Citrus in her had something to do with it.

If Amir says it's a Citrus Desert, then it's a Citrus Desert.

Congrats. This is huge.

Sorry if I missed it, but what temps were you keeping her at?

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Amir never makes mistakes?

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Originally Posted by hig

I wish the OP took pics to document this, then made the post AFTER the eggs hatch! If no deserts in the clutch, try again next year. The snake didn't look desert to me, and comparing pics of confirmed deserts, I still feel the same way. There is no way to say for sure the snake in question is a citrus desert until proving out the genetics. It is irresponsible to say otherwise. I don't know the "big names" that have been thrown around, but I take with a grain of salt the opinion of someone who has 8.22 snakes of this combo saying the snake in question is a viable citrus desert. That is simple buyer beware stuff.

OP: Best of luck! Words to the wise, next time you discover gold: prove it is gold then capitalize on it, don't blab to every man and his dog where you found a piece of yellow rock! Your business model, wife and kids will thank you for it.

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The OP paid $1900 for this snake. I doubt he's EVER questioned whether or not it's truly a pastel desert.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Amir never makes mistakes?

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EXACTLY.

I'll take my silent solace in that I'm not a sheep following big names.
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Originally Posted by Jake Milbradt

The OP paid $1900 for this snake. I doubt he's EVER questioned whether or not it's truly a pastel desert.

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For sure... which further supports my gold analogy. Prove it out before telling the whole town theres gold in them thair hills!

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Originally Posted by Jake Milbradt

The OP paid $1900 for this snake. I doubt he's EVER questioned whether or not it's truly a pastel desert.

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Yeah and I bet he's going to be PISSED if that $1900 female turns out to be a nice pastel :tears:

I do not have a rooting interest. I would love for a dozen or more female Deserts to lay viable eggs and come out the other side happy and healthy. I think the Desert is a cool looking baby, and LOVE every Desert cross I have seen.

I do not think it is a Desert female on the eggs. I looked at both the baby picture of the female on the eggs and the baby picture of the known Pastel Desert, and to me, the Pastel Desert is obviously a Pastel Desert. The baby pic of the female on the eggs is either an odd Desert Pastel, meaning not looking like most Desert Pastel, or, it simply has no Desert gene in it.

I think before everyone gets excited (might be too late for that), people should wait and see what hatches. I just hope that people do not rush out and breed their Desert females in hopes of replicating this clutch, until we see Desert babies. I think Amir has a good enough reputation that he will tell us if he made a mistake. I just hope this does not turn into a "Ball Python Cover Up" scenario, and that everyone is honest and open about the results.

Dave

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Originally Posted by mapleman

Yeah and I bet he's going to be PISSED if that $1900 female turns out to be a nice pastel :tears:

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If this does prove out to be not Desert then I'm sure Amir will take care of that. Mistakes can occur, true professionalism is how you take care of the mistakes :)

I find it interesting that we are still debating wether or not the snake in this post is desert or not, when someone else has come out of the woodworks describing a viable female desert clutch, as well as other people he knows with eggs incubating. I want to know more about those!

There may be many keeping these clutches and breedings a secret as it has been considered so taboo. I hope all of these supposed viable desert female clutches have been properly documented!! This could be an interesting year if all of this is true.



I also came across this quote today, it was posted by someone I consider to be very wise.

"Quarreling doesn't make an ignorant a wise. It's just proving the ignorance."

I thought it was fitting for this forum, as well as many other threads I've seen.

Again, I do not have the desert gene, and do not know how it really works. So take what I say with a grain of salt if you'd like. All I know is what I've been told, and if lives are in jeopardy, those with these females should be very careful in what they choose to do, and how they do it.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by behindblueyes

I find it interesting that we are still debating wether or not the snake in this post is desert or not, when someone else has come out of the woodworks describing a viable female desert clutch, as well as other people he knows with eggs incubating. I want to know more about those!

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Maybe it's because that's that users very first post on here and they didn't post ANY proof of it... I'd like to hear more about that too, i don't think it'd be fair to clog up this thread with that though. You can say whatever you want online, but if you don't back it up with proof then no ones gunna take you very seriously.
I made out with kate upton! <--- see, anyone can believe that if they want to! ;)

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Originally Posted by Sean : EbN

If this does prove out to be not Desert then I'm sure Amir will take care of that. Mistakes can occur, true professionalism is how you take care of the mistakes :)

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Exactly, Amir would take care of it. If you read my original opinion, the fact this could be a citrus pastel that had incubation effect was a possibility, but seeing the adult on eggs, it definitely looked pastel desert to me. After seeing these baby pics, I'm a little more on the fence and can see that maybe this female just had a little developmental action going on and is an extreme looking pastel.

For the record, I own no deserts, not sure where the whole investment, money aspect attack came from, but I'm still excited simply because I'm a fan of ball pythons and pretty much everyones projects in the reptile world. I hope we can just all relax a little bit. The success of a desert female laying eggs will do nothing financially for the project. For me, it would simply a cool reptile accomplishment.

I am glad I just keep ball pythons for fun and my family. I am actually picking up a desert in the near future and if I produce females I will hold them back, not because of the money aspect, but because I care about my animals and wouldn't want someone risking their lives to try and make money. Good luck on the clutch and I hope it proves out to be desert.

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Originally Posted by Family Reptiles

This is Mike from Family Reptiles here in Lakeland, FL. Congratulations on your Desert clutch. Scott and Elizabeth, the owners of Family Reptiles, also have a viable clutch of eggs from a Desert female currently in the incubator and it is due to pip in a couple weeks. We also know of a few other breeders that have viable desert clutches and we are all trying to compare notes as to what factors may have been involved in the success. If you are willing, Scott would love to chat.

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Pics or it (definitely) didn't happen.

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Originally Posted by SaintTawny

Pics or it (definitely) didn't happen.

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This is true:colbert:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Maybe it's because that's that users very first post on here and they didn't post ANY proof of it... I'd like to hear more about that too, i don't think it'd be fair to clog up this thread with that though. You can say whatever you want online, but if you don't back it up with proof then no ones gunna take you very seriously.
I made out with kate upton! <--- see, anyone can believe that if they want to! ;)

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Very true!! I can't agree more :) I totally believe you made out with kate upton. hehe.

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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

For the record, I own no deserts, not sure where the whole investment, money aspect attack came from, but I'm still excited simply because I'm a fan of ball pythons and pretty much everyones projects in the reptile world. I hope we can just all relax a little bit. The success of a desert female laying eggs will do nothing financially for the project. For me, it would simply a cool reptile accomplishment.

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Originally Posted by bxjoon

So now we have 3 of the best in the game pretty much confirming the genes of this animal which includes the breeder himself. So as far as the genetics of this snake goes, I am convinced that it has desert in it. Now we wait...

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Since you said you didn't know, I'll bring it to the most recent page.

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

Since you said you didn't know, I'll bring it to the most recent page.

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I'm confused. How do these comments even related?

My opinion confirms nothing. Like I said, and have said many times, ball pythons can take an appearance outside their genetics. In cases where developmental and incubation can brighten a mutation and often can, as could be the case here, determining genetics can be very difficult without the solid base/clutch results to compare, etc.. I can easily see how this could have been mistaken for a pastel desert, and I mentioned I would have sold it as one based upon how she looks on eggs...

I'm still hopeful she is a desert. Guess we will have to wait and see..

I'll make sure to make a post on this first, before people get butt hurt.

I'm not specifically stating Amir is lying, a bad breeder, or anything of the sort. We are all human, and I won't just take anyone's word on genetics when something isn't supposed to happen unless the gene is mapped and you've got a genetics degree. We're all just hobbyists here and I'm gonna treat you reading this post, and everyone else, the same way.

I was taught to question everything, that's just me.

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http://www.familyreptiles.com/family...m/Welcome.html

???

Anyone want to post pics of their 1600 gram plus pastel deserts?

I want to say thank you all for your input and personal feelings towards this moment. We all have a right to our opinions and I respect everyone for theirs. I will keep daily tabs on the clutch and update everyone when the clutch hatches.

Thank You,

Joe :D

Picture of Desert on eggs to be posted shortly, once I get the picture off of my phone. I'm not really a forum expert. Only signed up or this one because of the post.

Hmm...how does one go about uploading a picture. Copy and paste doesn't seem to work and the insert picture button asks for a URL. I am looking for a newbie page that explains it, but as the credibility of my post has been brought into question I am trying my best to get the picture up quickly.

Get imageshack or photobucket account.

Upload picture to chosen website

Copy the direct URL off the picture you have uploaded

Insert into the space provided in the dialog box

Bravo!! Bravo!! Bravisima!! You've uploaded a picture!!

Tinypic.com would probably be better.

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Personally, I don't see desert in the OPs animal. Just a Citrus Pastel.

I do agree that the OP prematurely jumped the gun on reporting this clutch. It would have been less dramatic if he documented this event after he produced a desert offspring. But things are how they are.

*IF*...and this is a big big if, if the OPs snake has the desert gene, it is 1 snake. 1 desert female out of many (who have died or had some sort of complication) isn't worth the risk and lives of future females in my personal opinion...

Ultimately, congrats on the healthy clutch OP. That's the important thing.

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...rt_on_eggs.jpg

Looks like I figured it out. So far the eggs are looking good, hopefully they remain that way.

Subscribed to this one! Hoping for the best for all! Thanks for sharing!

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Originally Posted by Family Reptiles

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...rt_on_eggs.jpg

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How's the female doing? Any issues after laying?

Subscribing

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Originally Posted by Family Reptiles

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...rt_on_eggs.jpg

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Is the pic of her mid lay...would you like to share any further info..Thanks

watching this with interest. Congrats on the clutch whatever the outcome.

congratulations to the op and family reptiles hope everything goes well.

OP I'm praying for your odds to be amazing. I'm going to go to one of Amir's reptile stores tomorrow. And ask the manager what he thinks. I've met Amir many times. And he has a lot of knowledge. I can't imagine him getting this wrong. But mistakes happen. I'm on the positive end. I hope that she proves out. Congrats to the OP and congrats to family reptile :)


Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

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Originally Posted by Bruceweb

Is the pic of her mid lay...would you like to share any further info..Thanks

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Im with this, more information please. Who produced the desert, where did you get her from, what was she bred with, how long have you had her, anything strange about her or her care or is all normal?

subscribed....hoping this works out since I love the Deserts

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

I'll make sure to make a post on this first, before people get butt hurt.

I'm not specifically stating Amir is lying, a bad breeder, or anything of the sort. We are all human, and I won't just take anyone's word on genetics when something isn't supposed to happen unless the gene is mapped and you've got a genetics degree. We're all just hobbyists here and I'm gonna treat you reading this post, and everyone else, the same way.

I was taught to question everything, that's just me.

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Perhaps it's your delivery that needs work.

It's fine to disagree, and we all get it now from almost every single post here that you are a proud card carrying non-sheeple. :)