Pine Shavings-The Real Deal.

I've used pine shavings for more years than most members here have been alive. I've used aspen too, had no problems, but it took too much compared to pine shavings, volume wise, to make it cost efficient.

I keep both mice and rats. I can't remember the last time I heard a sneeze or a cough from any of my rodents.

I've been keeping my snakes on pine longer than I've been breeder rodents. I don't use wet pine. I did learn that lesson the hard way many years ago before I even knew what a turpine was. Now I stick to well dried shavings.

The only breeder rats I've lost in the last as long as I can recall are pregnant females that died in childbirth. They are almost always either first time mothers or giving birth during the heat of summer. I have not had a male die in longer than I can remember and there have been MAYBE half a dozen females out of probably a hundred or so that have rotated through the breeding tubs.

I keep my rats in the snake room so they have heat during the winter, in the 80-84F range and A/C in the summer to keep them about the same EXCEPT on those days when it's 115F here and the A/C isn't quite up to the job. It may hit the mid 90s for a while on those days and I have noticed that those are the days that I have had mothers die giving birth.

I have no problems with babies. I don't always keep count but I can recall, mostly, how many are in each tub from week to week.

Those of you who have seen my snakes know they look pretty good. I RARELY feed anything I haven't produced myself, ratwise.

ive got breeders that are around 2 years old and all the ones ive grown up. i never had half the issues i have seen. the point to this is that if your going to petco those rats are picked over atleast a handfull of times before, mixed with rats from several sources and shipped to your local store.

mine on the other hand came from an actual ratery thats been around for a very long time and properly cared for. also he selectively picks what he keeps. does not bring any outsiders in and has a vet check his stuff all the time.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

get rid of the pine and use some aspen or pellets.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

They have been shown to increase liver enzymes and cause liver and kidney disease in small animals.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

No, I dont even think pine is ok. Studies have shown that small animals that live on pine have elevated liver enzymes and often die from liver disease.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Bedding, aspen is best. No cedar, or pine, it is poisonous to small animals

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Pine is not the best choice for rat bedding. I know people swear by it, but pine is very comparable to cedar in many respects.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I'm completely against the use of pine shavings.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Yes, but I don't recommend pine shavings for use with rodents. It contains many the same oils and phenols like cedar (just not as much), and can lead to respiratory distress.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Pine is not good to keep rats on from what I've read. I choose not to use it, but many do. This is what I've read so far about using pine shavings.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Pine has been studied because of the effects phenols (phenols are caustic, used in cleaning products like pinesol and lysol) have on small animals, it has been shown in studies that the phenols will increase liver enzymes that can cause liver failure. Not to mention the phenols and aroma of pine irritates the respiratory system of small animals which is bad for rats who already have very sensitive respiratory systems. This irritation can leave the door open for illnesses like myco flare ups, which in turn wear on their immune system, making it harder for them to fight off more infections.

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Ok Connie, is it really that necessary to become involved in absolutely every single pine thread that ever comes up? Ya, we get it, you don't like it, but I'm really sick of seing it on every bedding related thread. Why don't you just make your signature "THE PINE POLICE"?

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Originally Posted by Peter Williams

Ok Connie, is it really that necessary to become involved in absolutely every single pine thread that ever comes up? Ya, we get it, you don't like it, but I'm really sick of seing it on every bedding related thread. Why don't you just make your signature "THE PINE POLICE"?

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Or you could just get used to me putting in my 2 cents to every pine thread.... ;)

And anyways, I like to think that over time I have relaxed my reply's and views into the use of pine as I have personally done my own research. :)

I have researched what to use and what not to use. and since pine is highly unrecommended and cedar as well. I have chosen to use pellets or aspen. I think its all on your preference as well. If your willing to take the risk its your choice. with all the stuff I read pointing to bad I opted not to.

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Originally Posted by Peter Williams

Ok Connie, is it really that necessary to become involved in absolutely every single pine thread that ever comes up? Ya, we get it, you don't like it, but I'm really sick of seing it on every bedding related thread. Why don't you just make your signature "THE PINE POLICE"?

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Ask and you shall receive....I asked a question, she put her 2 cents in about it...who are you to call her out for giving her opinion. I don't mean to offend anyone, but I trust Connie with anything rat related, but that is not to say that I trust her exclusively, or that I won't get my own experience. She cares about what other people keep their animals on, not just her own collection. Your post is akin to all the husbandry questions we see over and over for our bp section, and everyone always responds the same way, so why dont we all just stop responding to those and put "BP Enclosure Police" in all of our signatures.

Anyone use the pine thats in the black bags at TSC?

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Originally Posted by Clear

Anyone use the pine thats in the black bags at TSC?

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I havent used it, but one was torn open at TSC and I scooped a handful (if were talking about the same kind) and the shavings were big and chunky, and also not kiln dried. Pretty wet stuff at my store.

I bought 2 bags of it, it was really wet and dusty, I gave it away.