Tank size questions

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Originally Posted by ckenney35

The UTH does not have any probe or anything. There is a probe attached to the zoomed thermostat which I buried about halfway under substrate underneath the hide on the hot side.

As for substrate, I am using eco earth about 4 inches deep with sphagnum moss on top about a loose inch or two. I was always told NO wood shavings of ANY kind cause they can cause RI's and that was told to me by my friend who bought me my first BP and he was a herp major in college.

I will try the tin foil and was also reading about plexiglass with the holes cut out.

Now the CHE I'm assuming that's a ceramic element which again I was told by Nick they were dangerous so I opted to buy what he said which was a 100w day bulb and a 150w red bulb for night as it simulates a day/night cycle so is this okay in place of a ceramic element? I have the thermostat on cool side set to shut off at 80F

Lucy seems to be fine she hides during the day and explores at night. She seems to love the hour that I get her out at night and let her roam on my arms or neck

I also kept the temple hides and just bought another but packed some dry moss inside so she fits more 'snug' to make sure she feels secure and I spread out the fake plants so if she does roam around she can easily hide if she gets scared.

I'll try the misting with a bottle first to see if that helps and I'm off to walmart tomorrow to get the digital humidity gauge for her tank.

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"The UTH does not have any probe or anything. There is a probe attached to the zoomed thermostat which I buried about halfway under substrate underneath the hide on the hot side."

Okay, so it's a dimmer, not a thermostat. Use the dimmer to limit upper temp range if you want (you can set a few degrees above necessary temp as an added precaution in case the thermostat fails open), but use the thermostat for a proper cutoff.

Again, do not bury the thermostat probe in the substrate. For UTH - between bottom of the tank and the UTH on the OUTSIDE of the tank. For CHE, etc. a few inches below the heating element in the tank. Probe temps will differ from actual temps. Could read 90F at probe near heating element and be 80F below. You have to make small adjustments until you get it right.

Probes in substrate can get wet from waste, water spilling, misting, etc. This will change the reading and can make for dangerous temps.

Always use a laser temp gun ($14 from home depot) for accurate ground temps. Do not rely on air thermometers or probe temps from thermostats.

I would recommend making all this adjustments until it's just fine tuning (within a 1F or so adjustments) without Lucy in the tank. Put her in a holding container for a few hours while you work out the temps and get them dialed in. Then check very regularly for a while until you have it down.


"As for substrate, I am using eco earth about 4 inches deep with sphagnum moss on top about a loose inch or two. I was always told NO wood shavings of ANY kind cause they can cause RI's and that was told to me by my friend who bought me my first BP and he was a herp major in college.

I will try the tin foil and was also reading about plexiglass with the holes cut out."


I haven't used eco earth, so I'll let someone else chime in on that. I believe CEDAR is toxic and Aspen shavings are fine. However, I don't use either, and again, someone else can chime in definitively.

Plexiglass with holes could work, but you would have to work it around the lamps or CHE (more on this in a minute) or cut a whole in it for the lamp fixture.


"Now the CHE I'm assuming that's a ceramic element which again I was told by Nick they were dangerous so I opted to buy what he said which was a 100w day bulb and a 150w red bulb for night as it simulates a day/night cycle so is this okay in place of a ceramic element? I have the thermostat on cool side set to shut off at 80F"

Not sure who Nick is, but CHE, like any heating device, are all fine if appropriate wattage AND CONTROLLED BY A THERMOSTAT.

100W is probably way too high for a 30G as is 150W red bulb. I would recommend a 60W CHE and a small LED light if you want day/night. Red lights are still lights to a BP.

Having some light in day and no light at night = Day/night cycle.

"Lucy seems to be fine she hides during the day and explores at night. She seems to love the hour that I get her out at night and let her roam on my arms or neck"


BP's are nocturnal; hide and sleep all day and active at night is totally normal.

How long have you had her? How many times has she eaten for you now?

BP's are shy creatures, and even after many years of handling, most won't tolerate an hour, certainly not regularly.

My BP is docile and calm and is 6 years old. I've had her since she fit in the palm of my hand. If I took her out for an hour, she would have given me plenty of signals that was too much. I usually take her out 10-15 minutes tops for handling. Can I/have I gone longer, yes, but not often. She always rushes right back into a hide and curls up as soon as I put her back.

The rule of thumb for young/new BP's is 3 feedings in them before handling. They can be picky with eating, especially if stressed and/or husbandry isn't correct, which you are working on. Get everything right and then leave her alone until she's eaten 3 meals in a row. Only take her out for tank cleaning, etc.

Also, try not to handle on the day of feeding and for at least 24 hours after eating.

"I also kept the temple hides and just bought another but packed some dry moss inside so she fits more 'snug' to make sure she feels secure and I spread out the fake plants so if she does roam around she can easily hide if she gets scared.

I'll try the misting with a bottle first to see if that helps and I'm off to walmart tomorrow to get the digital humidity gauge for her tank."

Okay and okay.

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Originally Posted by dakski

"The UTH does not have any probe or anything. There is a probe attached to the zoomed thermostat which I buried about halfway under substrate underneath the hide on the hot side."

Okay, so it's a dimmer, not a thermostat. Use the dimmer to limit upper temp range if you want (you can set a few degrees above necessary temp as an added precaution in case the thermostat fails open), but use the thermostat for a proper cutoff.

Again, do not bury the thermostat probe in the substrate. For UTH - between bottom of the tank and the UTH on the OUTSIDE of the tank. For CHE, etc. a few inches below the heating element in the tank. Probe temps will differ from actual temps. Could read 90F at probe near heating element and be 80F below. You have to make small adjustments until you get it right.

Probes in substrate can get wet from waste, water spilling, misting, etc. This will change the reading and can make for dangerous temps.

Always use a laser temp gun ($14 from home depot) for accurate ground temps. Do not rely on air thermometers or probe temps from thermostats.

I would recommend making all this adjustments until it's just fine tuning (within a 1F or so adjustments) without Lucy in the tank. Put her in a holding container for a few hours while you work out the temps and get them dialed in. Then check very regularly for a while until you have it down.


"As for substrate, I am using eco earth about 4 inches deep with sphagnum moss on top about a loose inch or two. I was always told NO wood shavings of ANY kind cause they can cause RI's and that was told to me by my friend who bought me my first BP and he was a herp major in college.

I will try the tin foil and was also reading about plexiglass with the holes cut out."


I haven't used eco earth, so I'll let someone else chime in on that. I believe CEDAR is toxic and Aspen shavings are fine. However, I don't use either, and again, someone else can chime in definitively.

Plexiglass with holes could work, but you would have to work it around the lamps or CHE (more on this in a minute) or cut a whole in it for the lamp fixture.


"Now the CHE I'm assuming that's a ceramic element which again I was told by Nick they were dangerous so I opted to buy what he said which was a 100w day bulb and a 150w red bulb for night as it simulates a day/night cycle so is this okay in place of a ceramic element? I have the thermostat on cool side set to shut off at 80F"

Not sure who Nick is, but CHE, like any heating device, are all fine if appropriate wattage AND CONTROLLED BY A THERMOSTAT.

100W is probably way too high for a 30G as is 150W red bulb. I would recommend a 60W CHE and a small LED light if you want day/night. Red lights are still lights to a BP.

Having some light in day and no light at night = Day/night cycle.

"Lucy seems to be fine she hides during the day and explores at night. She seems to love the hour that I get her out at night and let her roam on my arms or neck"


BP's are nocturnal; hide and sleep all day and active at night is totally normal.

How long have you had her? How many times has she eaten for you now?

BP's are shy creatures, and even after many years of handling, most won't tolerate an hour, certainly not regularly.

My BP is docile and calm and is 6 years old. I've had her since she fit in the palm of my hand. If I took her out for an hour, she would have given me plenty of signals that was too much. I usually take her out 10-15 minutes tops for handling. Can I/have I gone longer, yes, but not often. She always rushes right back into a hide and curls up as soon as I put her back.

The rule of thumb for young/new BP's is 3 feedings in them before handling. They can be picky with eating, especially if stressed and/or husbandry isn't correct, which you are working on. Get everything right and then leave her alone until she's eaten 3 meals in a row. Only take her out for tank cleaning, etc.

Also, try not to handle on the day of feeding and for at least 24 hours after eating.

"I also kept the temple hides and just bought another but packed some dry moss inside so she fits more 'snug' to make sure she feels secure and I spread out the fake plants so if she does roam around she can easily hide if she gets scared.

I'll try the misting with a bottle first to see if that helps and I'm off to walmart tomorrow to get the digital humidity gauge for her tank."

Okay and okay.

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Ok so there may be some confusion. The UTH is a reptitherm for a 30 gal size. There is no probe, no dial, nothing just the heater and a plug. I plugged the UTH into a 1000w Zilla temperature controller (TC) now the TC will switch on and off whatever heat source is plugged into it when it reaches the desired temp. I did go ahead and take the TC probe out from underneath the substrate. I buried it underneath the substrate because that's what the instructions had said to do.

I will go and get the ceramic for heat and a blue light although the research I've done has said snakes don't see light in the red spectrum. I can for sure get a smaller wattage of bulb.

Lucy has eaten for me 4 times now. She eats every Friday around 5pm.

I do know the not handling after eating, I give her a good 48 hours after food before I even think about handling. The only time she gets touched after eating is to transfer her back to tank from feeding tub

I do know they are nocturnal creatures which is why she only comes out at night which is good for me because I sleep during the day cause I work nights.

Her temps and everything have been fine so far just been fine tuning and getting the extra equipment such as UTH but according to thermometer which I have a temp gun and have had one to spot check temps since I've had her was always under the impression that the digital temp probe was a better for keeping an eye on temps inside her hide because I don't want to go in a couple times a day and lift the hide to check temps



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Originally Posted by ckenney35

So I want my Lucy to be happy and healthy. What is the proper tank size for a baby or small juvenile. I have her in a 30 gal now but I bought a 55 gal tank and wanted to know if this setup would be best. I want her to have a hide on warm side and hide on cool side with water bowl in middle. The 30 gal doesn't really have space to allow this but I'm afraid the 55 is too big for her right now. Just wanted to get some opinions before I did anything. Lucy is maybe 18 to 20 in he's long now so still pretty small

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I'm a little late replying, but just read through the whole thread and the others have covered basically everything I would have said.

One other thing that caught my eye though: is the 55 gallon a traditional size 55? Is it 48" wide, 12" deep and 18" tall? If so, it unfortunately won't make a good BP enclosure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ckenney35

Ok so there may be some confusion. The UTH is a reptitherm for a 30 gal size. There is no probe, no dial, nothing just the heater and a plug. I plugged the UTH into a 1000w Zilla temperature controller (TC) now the TC will switch on and off whatever heat source is plugged into it when it reaches the desired temp. I did go ahead and take the TC probe out from underneath the substrate. I buried it underneath the substrate because that's what the instructions had said to do.

I will go and get the ceramic for heat and a blue light although the research I've done has said snakes don't see light in the red spectrum. I can for sure get a smaller wattage of bulb.

Lucy has eaten for me 4 times now. She eats every Friday around 5pm.

I do know the not handling after eating, I give her a good 48 hours after food before I even think about handling. The only time she gets touched after eating is to transfer her back to tank from feeding tub

I do know they are nocturnal creatures which is why she only comes out at night which is good for me because I sleep during the day cause I work nights.

Her temps and everything have been fine so far just been fine tuning and getting the extra equipment such as UTH but according to thermometer which I have a temp gun and have had one to spot check temps since I've had her was always under the impression that the digital temp probe was a better for keeping an eye on temps inside her hide because I don't want to go in a couple times a day and lift the hide to check temps



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Ckenney35,

Thank you for the clarification. I am also on the east coast and it was getting late and I was getting punchy.

Really good she's been eating for you; I wasn't clear on that.

Cool that you work nights and are on her schedule!

I've heard mixed things on the red bulbs. I've heard they can't see it and some say they can still see it is light. I know Shayna, my BP, seemed more willing to eat and hunt, etc. when I removed the red light I had. I had read the same thing, that they were fine.

Not sure if blue is better. Another alternative could be to keep the red light but put on a dimmer so the light is pretty low.

If you don't want to lift a hide and bother her, you can really quick spray the laser into the hide towards the ground and get a quick reading that way. Not as accurate, but can do in a pinch if you don't want to bother her. Just make sure she's not looking for food!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ckenney35

Ok so there may be some confusion. The UTH is a reptitherm for a 30 gal size. There is no probe, no dial, nothing just the heater and a plug. I plugged the UTH into a 1000w Zilla temperature controller (TC) now the TC will switch on and off whatever heat source is plugged into it when it reaches the desired temp. I did go ahead and take the TC probe out from underneath the substrate. I buried it underneath the substrate because that's what the instructions had said to do.

I will go and get the ceramic for heat and a blue light although the research I've done has said snakes don't see light in the red spectrum. I can for sure get a smaller wattage of bulb.

Lucy has eaten for me 4 times now. She eats every Friday around 5pm.

I do know the not handling after eating, I give her a good 48 hours after food before I even think about handling. The only time she gets touched after eating is to transfer her back to tank from feeding tub

I do know they are nocturnal creatures which is why she only comes out at night which is good for me because I sleep during the day cause I work nights.

Her temps and everything have been fine so far just been fine tuning and getting the extra equipment such as UTH but according to thermometer which I have a temp gun and have had one to spot check temps since I've had her was always under the impression that the digital temp probe was a better for keeping an eye on temps inside her hide because I don't want to go in a couple times a day and lift the hide to check temps



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Did you put the probe between the UTH and the glass, or just unbury it? Between the UTH and the glass is the only way to assure the glass doesn't get too hot and burn your baby.

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Originally Posted by reptilemom25

Did you put the probe between the UTH and the glass, or just unbury it? Between the UTH and the glass is the only way to assure the glass doesn't get too hot and burn your baby.

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The instructions clearly say in big red letters not to let the probe come in direct contact with the heat source

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Originally Posted by ckenney35

The instructions clearly say in big red letters not to let the probe come in direct contact with the heat source

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I’ve never seen a thermostat say that. if it does then it’s not the appropriate thermostat for this application. a probe on top of 4 inches of substrate means It will never reach temperature and the heat mat will run constantly your snake will borrow down into the substrate and burn themselves on the glass

We aren’t trying to give you a hard time, honestly. We just want the best for you and your baby. Your best bet is to get a thermostat that will do what you need. A jumpstart is about $35 on Amazon, and that will get you started. It isn’t proportional but is fairly reliable short term. For a little more than $100 you can get a herpstat ez2 and put both heat sources on it. That would be your best bet.


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Originally Posted by ckenney35

The instructions clearly say in big red letters not to let the probe come in direct contact with the heat source

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Again, Zoomed is not known for their thermostats or thermostat quality. It's an afterthought product for them and should only be used until you can get a proper thermostat from someone like Spyder Robotics - I put links to their herpstat products in my original post.

Here is a link to the probe placement manual for the herpstatez2. It clearly states what we've all been saying about probe placement and contradicts the instructions you have.

http://www.spyderrobotics.com/index....id=9&chapter=1

We are speaking from experience and with facts to back it up as well. We want Lucy to be happy and healthy, just like you.

Please try not to get defensive. We have your best interests at heart and are spending a lot of time trying to help you. This is purely from the kindness of our hearts and wanting what is best for you and Lucy for a lifetime. We are not compensated in any way, nor do we get the time we put in back. We are trying to help. Please keep that in mind.

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Originally Posted by dakski

Again, Zoomed is not known for their thermostats or thermostat quality. It's an afterthought product for them and should only be used until you can get a proper thermostat from someone like Spyder Robotics - I put links to their herpstat products in my original post.

Here is a link to the probe placement manual for the herpstatez2. It clearly states what we've all been saying about probe placement and contradicts the instructions you have.

http://www.spyderrobotics.com/index....id=9&chapter=1

We are speaking from experience and with facts to back it up as well. We want Lucy to be happy and healthy, just like you.

Please try not to get defensive. We have your best interests at heart and are spending a lot of time trying to help you. This is purely from the kindness of our hearts and wanting what is best for you and Lucy for a lifetime. We are not compensated in any way, nor do we get the time we put in back. We are trying to help. Please keep that in mind.

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Please don't get me wrong, I'm not being rude or defensive in any way and if it came off that way I'm sorry. I appreciate the help and your guys time. I'm doing the best with what I have near me since I live in such a small town. Literally 2 hours away from any major city. I'm going to the city on the 19th for a reptile show so I'll see if they have any items you listed there as well.

The spider robotics seems very expensive and I won't be able to order that for a pay period or two. I am willing to work the overtime to buy it if need be.

I want Lucy to be happy and healthy and she seems happy, we will find out for sure in about a half hour or so cause that's feeding time.

I will place the probe like you said and I will find the instructions wherever I put them and post a picture of the instructions to show you.

I've looked up and seen mixed reviews on the zoo med thermostats and they seem like they will do until I can save for the more expensive ones.

I think I've decided to just lose the battle with the glass enclosure and buy either one of the Exxo Terra terrerriums or something like that. I know you guys say the ones you listed are best but I would like to still have Lucy on display as well and I really can't afford to buy the who rack for just one snake.

Can't really say with all the validity in the world but exxo terra claims to have put allot of research into their tanks and say they are suitable for all reptiles

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