If it's too good to be true....

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

To both you and Kinra
I say if you want to sell for that low, make sure you only do it with close friends. You seem like great people and I don't think you'd ever build a good reputation with prices that low. All it does is scream "Hey, I want to move my snakes out, they are cheap, and the quality sucks." As we all know, you both aren't like that. But that is the message you will put out with a price like that.

I say if you want to price them lower, go ahead, but only discount them a little. Even for members here, we will be more likely to get a "forum member" discount of $50 on that albino, but a $250 discount is going to push away any REPUTABLE customers. You may have some creeps buying from you at that point. No offense to anyone, I just know that cheap stuff might attract cheap people that will NOT take good care of the snakes.


Just my .02.

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I get what you were saying but I can't see myself getting a bad rep for selling my animals at around half price or less to local stores or members of my local herp society. Reputation is something that can take a while to build, so I plan on sticking to areas where I think I can sell fairly easily. That being said, I've also put a lot of time and effort into making a website so I can expand my business in the future.

I'm also in a sticky situation where if I actually start making money selling snakes I could lose my job. I signed a non-competitive agreement when I started which basically said I can't have any other source of income so I need to make sure I only ever break even or only turn a very small profit or any profit I make I need to donate to some cause/non profit. :(

I have never lower my prices, or undercut other breeder to get a sale, not even when I was new with no reputation (not like I am known now either anyway) however I work very hard with my animals, I proud myself to produce some animals that speak for themselves (selective breeding being key), treat my customers the way I want to be treated and got involved very early on on a few forums so people would get to know me.

You do not have to have a big name to sell your animals at the current market price. :gj:

It all starts with being involved, being honest, being a member in good standing in the herp community and producing quality animals ;)

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Originally Posted by Kinra

I get what you were saying but I can't see myself getting a bad rep for selling my animals at around half price or less to local stores or members of my local herp society. Reputation is something that can take a while to build, so I plan on sticking to areas where I think I can sell fairly easily. That being said, I've also put a lot of time and effort into making a website so I can expand my business in the future.

I'm also in a sticky situation where if I actually start making money selling snakes I could lose my job. I signed a non-competitive agreement when I started which basically said I can't have any other source of income so I need to make sure I only ever break even or only turn a very small profit or any profit I make I need to donate to some cause/non profit. :(

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That's why I said UNLESS you are selling to good friends, which of course can include those in your local herp group.


Deborah is someone I would consider a mentor in all of this.. she is great. :)

Personally, I've seen(personally heard from breeders both big and smaller) really bad opinions on anyone who's lowering a price to WAY below market value. Is it going to crash the market? No. Is it going to give you a poor rep to people you may want to purchase from later on? Yes.

If you're advertising albinos at 1/3 the price(using the example), then someone might ask about your cheap albinos, find you're already sold out(because say you only had a couple for sale) and go to the next person with albinos. When the price is normal, they'll whine "But So-So had them for $100!!" And that seller/breeder is going to be annoyed because his snakes are worth more than that and now he's got some people who've seen the ADVERTISED price of $100. Will he still sell HIS snakes at his price? Most likely. Will he have to field whiny people who don't 'get it' that not everyone will offer ridiculously low prices for whatever reason? Yes. I've had to answer emails the same, declining lowball offers and hearing "But I could get one from XX at $X!" It's annoying.

If you NEED to sell a few animals in order to make a purchase or make some bills, etc. that's not the same as just pricing ALL your produced animals at 1/3 the market price. Most people understand getting in a bind and needing the extra cash and moving some animals quickly.

Myself, I won't buy from someone cutting all their prices ridiculously low. I don't want to support someone who doesn't value their animals. I also don't want to support anyone who is making more of the entitled whiny cheapo 'breeders' who expect every price to be slashed to nothing for no reason. I don't mind a deal. I don't mine a price being higher or lower than market. But just slashing the prices to WAY below market just "because" will lose me as a buyer.

Many of the same people who are all pleased to see a price drop crazy low are then the first to start shouting about how "unfair" it is that by the time THEY produce animals from their cheap ones, the price is in the toilet and they won't make tons of money. Well... what do you expect?

If you want to be "just a hobby breeder" and want to sell your animals fast and cheap, just wholesale them. You'll have them all gone in one or two batches, you'll get paid and only have to make a couple shipments and be done with hatchling season. Then you can concentrate on your holdbacks and any new animals you've purchased. You will ALSO build a reputation with sellers that you produce nice quality animals without any stigma as to pricing at all. AND you won't have to field 500 emails all whining that the price isn't low enough, you should take 20 more pictures and can you do payments for the next 5 years and can they have the snake for free because they "reely reely want 1 reely bad!!!!" (actual email, I swear)

Also, deals between friends don't ever count in "advertised prices". That's a private sale. It's like trades, you might value something you want more than what you have and it's then a "fair trade".

Please excuse the hijack, but I have a question. If a person were to sell at about 20% below market, would that be considered too low for a newcomer? How about if the 20% discount were tied to the buyer providing feedback after the sale? Would a 10% discount be more appropriate?
I followed the market this last season, and I noticed that newcomers selling a little under the market did well, where as those selling at market seemed to have trouble. At 20% off, newcomers sold out quickly.
I thought this would be a good strategy for me in my first year of selling, but I don't want to upset other breeders or have a negative affect on the market. :)

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

If you want to be "just a hobby breeder" and want to sell your animals fast and cheap, just wholesale them. You'll have them all gone in one or two batches, you'll get paid and only have to make a couple shipments and be done with hatchling season. Then you can concentrate on your holdbacks and any new animals you've purchased. You will ALSO build a reputation with sellers that you produce nice quality animals without any stigma as to pricing at all. AND you won't have to field 500 emails all whining that the price isn't low enough, you should take 20 more pictures and can you do payments for the next 5 years and can they have the snake for free because they "reely reely want 1 reely bad!!!!" (actual email, I swear)

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That's a great angle, and I really appreciated the advice. :gj:

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Originally Posted by piedplus

Please excuse the hijack, but I have a question. If a person were to sell at about 20% below market, would that be considered too low for a newcomer? How about if the 20% discount were tied to the buyer providing feedback after the sale? Would a 10% discount be more appropriate?
I followed the market this last season, and I noticed that newcomers selling a little under the market did well, where as those selling at market seemed to have trouble. At 20% off, newcomers sold out quickly.
I thought this would be a good strategy for me in my first year of selling, but I don't want to upset other breeders or have a negative affect on the market. :)

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And those are great questions - not a hijack at all. Goes right along with what I'm asking about.

So what I gather from most posts, is that it's okay to slightly discount as a new breeder, as long as it isn't something so ridiculous that I would find myself among the 'sleazy', LOL. And moving for a quick sale to purchase a new animal is completely understandable.

I value my animals as pets, not just as breeding stock. I plan to keep my hets, even after I've produced the morphs, just because the were part of my original crew. :D

Like I said, if you can show proof that you CARE for your snakes, and have experience I dont see anything wrong with selling them cheaper, maybe not quite that low, but still at a lot better deal than "normal" prices. Big name breeders wont even blink an eye with a clutch or two going for less.I know that it might hurt your reputation by selling them cheaper, mainly by small breeders who are getting the normal prices for them. I actually think it could help your reputation...if you have established yourself on here and again, can prove that you truly care about your snakes, it could turn a lot of people onto you who aren't willing to pay $500 for an albino but would be willing to give $250-$300 all day. You may make people mad:mad:, but you would also be making a lot of peple happy:banana:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Did I price my snake lower and work up to higher prices? No. Now due to what I was breeding my animals I offered were in the Hobbiest end of the market. As my collection grew so did the price of the animals I was able to offer for-sale.

Price difference is a marketing tool that for a myriad of reasons is not excepted in our industry. No other industry do you see people getting openly dragged through the mud as bad people for running sales for weekends or 50% off for memorial day ect ect.

My suggestion is that if you want to sale your animals market your stuff accordingly, and price it right and you shouldn't have a problem.

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This.

I also did not start out pricing my animals below what more established breeders sold their animals for.

An albino is an albino (in your example). Just because Ralph Davis, or Tracy Barker, or any other big name makes one, they don't sprinkle it with pixie dust that makes it worth more than yours. Sell if for market value.

Participate in forums like you're doing here - build a reputation for being a keeper who cares about her animals and helping others, and you won't have a problem selling your animals for market value.

One thing you have to remember - just because your animals don't sell the first day, first week or even first month you post it for sale doesn't mean it's not going to sell and that you have to slash your prices. Your buyer just hasn't found you yet.

I'm perfectly willing to hang onto animals until they sell, especially females, because the more weight they put on, the more their value goes up. A 500 gram female should sell for more than a hatchling.

I've never been intimidated by the big breeders or more established breeders - and you shouldn't either. As long as you are producing quality animals that people desire - you'll have no problems.

Julie, I am not too far behind you:D or we are neck in neck. Either way you want to look at it;)
(I think I have posted this before:oops:)
I found several other breeders in my area to hook up with and do some trading. I already have a deal worked on a clutch from a snake I havent received yet:O..............................

had to run to a service call so there may be many more posts now............................

Point is I already have outlets for the ones I am not planning on holding back.
Even have 2 "mom and pop" pet shops for normals.

I never buy based on how well the company is known.

I buy based on the following:

1) The individual animal. How it compares to other individuals of the same morph.
2) Whether the seller seems trustworthy. Having a website is reassuring to me.
3) The customer service. I had a big name company that was actually pretty rude to me, and I ended up not buying one of their animals solely because of their poor customer service.

Low pricing isn't a huge factor in my decision. Obviously I want it to be *reasonably* priced, but I don't mind spending extra cash for an animal that's worth it. If the price was ridiculously low, unless I had good reason to trust the seller, I would pass it up.