baby spider ball keeps shaking its head this normall?

Sorry but breeding a insnae wobbler can produce ones with very slight wobble and vice versa.

With producing over 20 spiders in last 3 years ive seen my share. My male spider and bee barely do anything. But their offspring were the same or were crazy.

Its not genetic so to say your breeding a non wobbler, all the babies will be non wobblers is Way off.

I didnt say if you breed a no wobbler you wont get wobblers. Do you guys read what i write or do you guys just see my name and start going?. What i said is the spider gene animals i work with do not wobble and i dont wobbler babies. I had 9 clutches last year of spider gene animals. Out of about 30 to 35 babies not one wobbler. So am i doing something write, am i proving all the skeptics wrong? Am i just plain lucky? Until any one of you can prove to me its genetic or not with scientific data all your arguments are without merit just mere speculation.

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Do you guys read what i write or do you guys just see my name and start going?

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Paranoid much :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Until any one of you can prove to me its genetic or not with scientific data all your arguments are without merit just mere speculation.

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So where are YOUR scientific data? Less me guess you have known therefore just speculation on your part which means end of the discussion here and we will agree to disagree/.............funny thing is that MANY spider breeders will disagree with you as well. :rolleyes:

the only time i see my spider wobble a little bit is when she is on her branch extending her neck/head flickering her tounge, she is a little over 3 months old i hope her wobble doesnt get any worse

she doesn't wobble when feeding she just sits there perfectly still and i move the rat in front of her and wham... she's a pig:)

the spider female i had had pretty much no wobble,the bumblebee i had wobbled while feeding,my killerbee has a very noticeable wobble, my bumblebee mojave has such a tiny wobble its hard to notice. once they get up to size ill get an idea of what kinda babies they will throw.

And many will agree as well so i will play the odds. Im not the one preaching that its proven they all have wobbles and they will always pass wobbles. My data rests on years of experience. Therefore the system i have works. Thats all the data i need. It takes more then a couple years and google to figure it out. Let me ask you this. Are you fine with breeding an animal that has an apparent health issue and producing babies that could have it as well and then fine with selling those animals to people? If you answer yes then that proves my point about breeding quantity over quality. I have had wobbles in the past and some severe. Those severe cases go to the freezer. But since ive been so selective with what i breed and how i breed i havent had issues. Im not about to sell someone a jacked up animal. It makes you look bad and then the fauna snipers will rip you apart. Its all about quality in my book

i dont care about the he say she say but if you have no wobbles in your collection and you throw no wobble babies thats truly awesome and my hats off to you.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

And many will agree as well so i will play the odds. Im not the one preaching that its proven they all have wobbles and they will always pass wobbles. My data rests on years of experience. Therefore the system i have works. Thats all the data i need. It takes more then a couple years and google to figure it out. Let me ask you this. Are you fine with breeding an animal that has an apparent health issue and producing babies that could have it as well and then fine with selling those animals to people? If you answer yes then that proves my point about breeding quantity over quality. I have had wobbles in the past and some severe. Those severe cases go to the freezer. But since ive been so selective with what i breed and how i breed i havent had issues. Im not about to sell someone a jacked up animal. It makes you look bad and then the fauna snipers will rip you apart. Its all about quality in my book

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But nobody is agreeing with you.

Do you really think you're the only person who has tried to breed out the wobble? From what I've seen you say you've been around for 10 something years. That sounds like a long time, but that's not so much when you're talking about generations of ball pythons.

There are many other breeders out there who value quality just as much as you do. If the wobble could be bred out of the spider gene, wouldn't it have been shared within the community by other breeders who have been around just as long as you have (or longer)?

Surely if you have been producing spiders without wobbles for some time, word would have gotten around. I'm assuming you haven't been keeping every single one of the 30+ babies you are hatching out.

The spider wobble is such a well known characteristic of the gene that it would be big news if it could be selectively bred out. Nobody has come forward with records, evidence, or anything that could be used to prove this. Instead the community is constantly reinforcing the idea that every spider morph has some degree of wobble.

To be perfectly frank, not joking or being a troll, if you really produce spiders that are wobble free I would be interested in purchasing one from you. I love spiders, and I'm sure many other spider lovers would be interested in having an animal they could use to improve their own stock.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

And many will agree as well so i will play the odds. Im not the one preaching that its proven they all have wobbles and they will always pass wobbles. My data rests on years of experience. Therefore the system i have works. Thats all the data i need. It takes more then a couple years and google to figure it out. Let me ask you this. Are you fine with breeding an animal that has an apparent health issue and producing babies that could have it as well and then fine with selling those animals to people? If you answer yes then that proves my point about breeding quantity over quality. I have had wobbles in the past and some severe. Those severe cases go to the freezer. But since ive been so selective with what i breed and how i breed i havent had issues. Im not about to sell someone a jacked up animal. It makes you look bad and then the fauna snipers will rip you apart. Its all about quality in my book

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Thing is the wobble isnt a health issue. They live,eat and have good lives. Whos to say them wobbling all over is uncomfortable to them. No one knows what the hell its doing to them. If their eating,pooping, shedding find who are we to play god and kill em cause you dont want a wobbler. If i had a train wreck id never freeze it, Id keep it as a pet.

And yes I will continue to breed spiders, as there and AWESOME morph and wouldnt be where we are today in this industry without them, along with other base morphs.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

And many will agree as well so i will play the odds. Im not the one preaching that its proven they all have wobbles and they will always pass wobbles. My data rests on years of experience. Therefore the system i have works. Thats all the data i need. It takes more then a couple years and google to figure it out. Let me ask you this. Are you fine with breeding an animal that has an apparent health issue and producing babies that could have it as well and then fine with selling those animals to people? If you answer yes then that proves my point about breeding quantity over quality. I have had wobbles in the past and some severe. Those severe cases go to the freezer. But since ive been so selective with what i breed and how i breed i havent had issues. Im not about to sell someone a jacked up animal. It makes you look bad and then the fauna snipers will rip you apart. Its all about quality in my book

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And that is fine if that is what works for you, stick to it. More power to ya.

However in 99% of the cases I wouldn't really consider the wobble a health issue. A quirk maybe, but I haven't had any health issues with any of our spiders that was linked to their wobble. Ever notice how people brag about how their spiders are their best eaters and best breeders? Well I will certainly back those people up because our spiders are hands down our best eaters and breeders too.

So what you are saying is that if it has a bad wobble you automatically put it down? Is this anything like yanking teeth out of a rats mouth before feeding it to a snake so it can't bite back? If so I am NOT down with that at all.

Me personally, I don't give a crap what those uptight, holier than thou art jerks at Fauna think. I've met quite a few in person and let me tell you, I really wished I hadn't met most of them. I haven't used Fauna in a good year because of the people there.