Super ball

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

If you believe that human beings interbred with chimpanzees, then you should seek help outside of this forum. There is only so much one can hope to accomplish on a snake forum...

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Originally Posted by Lucas339

who are these scientist??? they probably don't have a job anymore. this is a ridicuously statment. i think you should check you facts on that one.

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I think you two will find this earth shattering, then: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/18/sc...998951&ei=5070

Anyways. I think that super ball is quite interesting looking. Absolutely love the pattern.

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Originally Posted by LotsaBalls

Really?? Why are people against this? If it's not suffering. I don't see any difference in this and say a bumble bee. Both are something you won't see in the wild. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

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There are a lot of arguments against hybrid breeding some of which I agree with, and some of which I do not.

One of the main arguments against cross breeding python species comes from breeders and collectors. Snakes are one pet that are almost guaranteed to have multiple different owners throughout their lives. A lot of the time these animals land into the hands of people who don't know much about them. From here they can re-enter the market as a pure ball python. Although this isn't such an issue now as there really isn't a market out there, or the supply for hybrid snakes. The concern is that this could change in the future as more work is being done with them, and often they look really cool.

Another thing is that hybrids often have health issues in general. From growth and development, and husbandry. Because your breed two snakes that may have different needs for incubation, heat, humidity, etc - A lot of them die, or are sterile, or have neurological disorders - and its unfair to purposely try and create something that MAY have a miserable existence. (Meh..)

Personally I stand on the fence - I think hybrids are really cool and a lot more work needs to be done with them. At the same time I think that people need to be responsible with them and if they are being sold into the market that buyers need to be very aware of what they buying and the challenges that come with owning a hybrid animal.

The problem is that there is a HUGE hobby breeders community - and unfortunately not all of us are responsible. There's no way to stop the hybrid breeding - you just need to be well informed when buying an animal.

Cheers.

Oh aside from natural evolution, I believe that hybrid experiment has been attempted more than once. It's just so unacceptable that you never hear about the old experiments now. It is something I was able to find a good amount on a few years ago though...

"Gallagher had heard of a doctor in Shenyang, in northeast China, who claimed to have achieved success with the artificial insemination of human sperm to a female chimpanzee, only to have the three-month-old fetus destroyed by Red Guards who came in and smashed up his laboratory."

So you see, you can not discount it. It's genetically possible. That's a fact. Wether or not this person actually did it, the world will never know.

Plus check out the Russian Dr that tried as well. Ilya Ivanovich or Ivanov. You can find info on these mad scientists that DID experiments on this.

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

No they're fertile

But they're a MUTT

Won't find any love from Blood/Short Tail enthusiasts on hybrids

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I guess blood/short tail enthusiasts arent SNAKE enthusiasts.. I dunno. I dont particularily care for colubrids.. But i still find them super cool an interesting.. But then again im a snake enthusiast.. I enjoy these creatures regardless of size temperment or species.. Id love to own some hots too.. But i wont ever.. I still like them though!!

Hate hybrids such as this...


20 years from now many of us will have a Ball (or blood) in your collection that isn't 100% pure because of this. No matter how careful you think you are...it'll become difficult to trace lineage of new animals as these Super Balls are bred back to balls (or Bloods) of...F3...F4...and so on.

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

Hate hybrids such as this...


20 years from now many of us will have a Ball (or blood) in your collection that isn't 100% pure because of this. No matter how careful you think you are...it'll become difficult to trace lineage of new animals as these Super Balls are bred back to balls (or Bloods) of...F3...F4...and so on.

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Hmm.. That is a valid point.. A very valod point.. However.. Let me ask you this. Within pure breed dogs.. Ones that have been kept pure generation after generation. Has there not been an increase in health problems?? Hips in akitas, respitory issues in pugs, blindness in others?

Im not familiar on how many bps are eing brought in wc into our hands. But id assume high end wc snakes are few and far between.. Thus it would be safe to say the high end morphs are a fairly closed bloodline and wr could begin seeing these un desirable traits in our current "pure" bps. One that comes to mind is the spider wobble.. Seems to me this after 10-15 years could become a genetic trait that may be in a large portion of bps..

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Originally Posted by Simplex

Hmm.. That is a valid point.. A very valod point.. However.. Let me ask you this. Within pure breed dogs.. Ones that have been kept pure generation after generation. Has there not been an increase in health problems?? Hips in akitas, respitory issues in pugs, blindness in others?

Im not familiar on how many bps are eing brought in wc into our hands. But id assume high end wc snakes are few and far between.. Thus it would be safe to say the high end morphs are a fairly closed bloodline and wr could begin seeing these un desirable traits in our current "pure" bps. One that comes to mind is the spider wobble.. Seems to me this after 10-15 years could become a genetic trait that may be in a large portion of bps..

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I see what you are saying...but I haven't noticed any sort of health digression in the species (BP) as a whole. Rather they are seen within certain traits; as you stated there are wobbles with spiders, kinks with caramels...and deserts, well I will leave that alone. ;) I know you didn't state this, but I just want to make the point that I do not agree with the notion of hybridizing simply to avoid weakness, or kinks in further down the lineage...

I feel it is unfortunate that those of us that believe in purity of the species will most likely be affected by hybridization in the future whether we like it or not.

No i understand that.. But also now that i think of it... Back to my original point on dog breeds.. These have been bred pure for years.. And its not uncommon to pay thousands for a pedigreed dog if its desirable.. Champions heirs and such... Also dog purity is very much controlled.. Papers. Governing bodies.. Right now i feel bps are in a "trust" phase. Big breeders do have garantees and track this stuff. But smaller ones dont not.. U will always have those bigger perfection lineage purity based breeders to get ur stock from.. Same will exsist as it does in dogs.. Mom amd pop un registered puppies vs perfectly traced heritage champion dogs from a reputable breeder... Both could be gorgeous huskies... But ones worth 500 and ones 5000

Also not trying to entice here.. Just a very interesting how different opinions exsist..

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Originally Posted by Simplex

No i understand that.. But also now that i think of it... Back to my original point on dog breeds.. These have been bred pure for years.. And its not uncommon to pay thousands for a pedigreed dog if its desirable.. Champions heirs and such... Also dog purity is very much controlled.. Papers. Governing bodies.. Right now i feel bps are in a "trust" phase. Big breeders do have garantees and track this stuff. But smaller ones dont not.. U will always have those bigger perfection lineage purity based breeders to get ur stock from.. Same will exsist as it does in dogs.. Mom amd pop un registered puppies vs perfectly traced heritage champion dogs from a reputable breeder... Both could be gorgeous huskies... But ones worth 500 and ones 5000

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And those perfectly lined dogs tend to have health problems out the wazoo due to inbreeding..