Need some help plz

He does have small "markers" but markers are unreliable in determining whether you have a het pied or not. There are plenty of het pieds that don't have markers, and there are plenty of normals that have markers but are 100% NOT het pied. If the breeder you got him from is only using his markers as the basis for calling him a het pied, then you may not have a het pied. I would contact the breeder and ask to see pictures of the parents. Even then, some breeders unfortunately lie.

I hate to say it, and I know it might bum you out, but you may very well be breeding a normal male to your normal female, which will result in normal babies. While this isn't necessarily bad, normals don't fetch much and can be hard to find homes for sometimes. Some breeders practically give them away. Even if your male carries the pied gene, the babies will still be normals that have a 50% chance of carrying the pied gene. What you could do is keep any females they produce and breed them back to the father. If you produce a pied, then you know he's a het pied. If not then either breed him to a KNOWN het pied female or a pied female and see what you get. If you don't produce any pieds, then it is highly likely (especially if you breed him to a pied female a few seasons) he is not a het pied.

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Originally Posted by Tori Witschger

Yes you explained that very well Thank you, so what about the reduced pattern is there anything special about that?? is there particular types that if I breed her to would ideal for morphs?

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I can't think of one reputable breeder that would mistake a normal for a cinni, just be careful if you work with that guy again....

I bet if you breed her to a pastel she would make some pretty pastels with her reduced pattern :)

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Originally Posted by Tori Witschger

Just so its clear when I mean I paid practically nothing.. out here most normals go for $75-$100 I got her in a trade for a old baby playpen that was worth probably like $45-$55 and Sang I paid $35 for on black friday cause he didn't want the baby's that were pied he said if they aren't perfect they aren't worth his time caring for since he is a hard core breeder.

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$45-$55 is fair for a baby female normal. And $35 for a black friday sale would be fair for a het pied male. What bothers me is that he says "if they aren't perfect, they aren't worth his time caring for." Hard core breeder? This guy sounds like bad news to me. I don't care what I produce, whether it be a $10,000 (I wish! :) ) animal or a normal male that is probably worth $5. I care for each and every animal in this house and I treat them all equally.

If he came from a pied to normal pairing, he is a het pied. If he came from a het pied to het pied pairing, he has a 66% chance of being het pied. If he came from a het pied to normal pairing, he has a 50% chance of being het pied.

As far as the reduced pattern, it can sometimes be passed onto the offspring and it came make for some really nice morph babies if you have a good male. Some people love reduced pattern spiders, pinstripes, pastels, etc, so pretty much any morph you breed her with, if she produces reduced patterned morph babies, they will be very nice looking. :)

Thanks guys for all the help, Yeah it is turning out to be a bit of a bummer I am probably not gonna be working with the guy again!!! but mixing her with a pastel is definatly not something I had thought of so if she does have babies I will see what daddy and daughter comes out with to see if he is het for pied, and maybe next year I can see if anyone has a pastel I can get a breeding from cause I love my snakes even if they aren't worth hundreds and I love the hobby and maybe once every couple of years getting a clutch out of them will be fun and a lil bit of income would be nice. Can't say it enough Thank goodness I found this site!!!!

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Originally Posted by Tori Witschger

Just so its clear when I mean I paid practically nothing.. out here most normals go for $75-$100 I got her in a trade for a old baby playpen that was worth probably like $45-$55 and Sang I paid $35 for on black friday cause he didn't want the baby's that were pied he said if they aren't perfect they aren't worth his time caring for since he is a hard core breeder.

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Maybe it's just me but it sounds to me more like he just wanted to dump some animals he couldn't move and threw in some embellishments to seal the deal. Did he give you any paperwork guaranteeing genetics on the "het pied" male? If not, I'd just consider it a possible het until you can prove it out. I care about each animal I produce whether it's a normal male (that no one ever seems to want) or something far more valuable and in demand. I don't just ditch animals because I don't have time for them. If I didn't have time for them, I wouldn't have bred their parents. :colbert:

I'd steer clear of this "hard core breeder" if I were you.

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Originally Posted by Quiet Tempest

Maybe it's just me but it sounds to me more like he just wanted to dump some animals he couldn't move and threw in some embellishments to seal the deal. Did he give you any paperwork guaranteeing genetics on the "het pied" male? If not, I'd just consider it a possible het until you can prove it out. I care about each animal I produce whether it's a normal male (that no one ever seems to want) or something far more valuable and in demand. I don't just ditch animals because I don't have time for them. If I didn't have time for them, I wouldn't have bred their parents. :colbert:

I'd steer clear of this "hard core breeder" if I were you.

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yeah I am starting to see that but the sad part is that I wouldn't have needed the embellishment of het for ___ even as normals I would have been happy I was looking for a couple of snakes to share my home with, I find them very therapeutic stress relieving animals just the calm and quiet behavior. of course after he told me the types they were I did more research on what het pied and cinnamon even was cause 3 years ago I didn't have the first clue just figured they were prettier colors of brown. Now this guy has like 3 high white Piebalds, several spiders, 2 bumblebee, lemon blast and I can't remember what else but they are all just the most beautiful snakes I have seen and since it seems to be his source of income I didn't question that he didn't find them top notch worth his breeding stock and so he sells them off to leave room for the finer animals even this I can slightly understand it just kills me that he had to lie about their genes. of course I didn't even think to get paperwork on them back then cause they are just my companion pets and I didn't know snakes came with papers like dogs do. lesson learned and well in the end I can't even say it was an expensive lesson I got a good deal on them even for what they are, and they are truly good looking snakes!!:D

Well, you learned that lesson the hard way, now you can move on to better things.

Your "hard-core breeder" friend sounds like the kind of buy it quick, sell it quicker, don't give a care about anything but money type a lot of hobbies involving animals have these days.

Me personally, I don't care if all I have are 2 $30 normals, I want the best $30 normals I can find, and try to make better $30 normals from them.

That being said, both of your snakes have a nice reduced pattern, and if bred would probably produce some very nice babies, even if they are just normals.

Now, your female looks to be a good size, so she could probably be ready to breed this fall. If you were of the mind to look for her a morph mate, there are several options to take that should go well with her reduced pattern. Spider is one choice, but they do have some issues so research them and find out what you are getting into.

A mojave or a true cinnamon male is another option I believe would benefit you and that won't break the bank. If you have a little leeway in the finance department, a pinstripe or enchi is another good choice.

If it were me, I think I'd focus on making that handsome male into my companion, and that pretty girl into an excuse to make more companions!

Gale