Sellers, take care Kristy1277

I think most or all of us agree that you are not owed that egg. It was your responsibility to know about eggs before you sold the snake, but I still think that this thread is warranted so we can be prepared for the nickle and diming that will likely come with future transactions. Being on the selling end of this hobby for one year has turned me from a happy pushover to a somewhat jaded skeptic when it comes to dealing with potential buyers. I guess it just comes with the hobby, and although I've never been ripped off outright, I wish I could have had some warning about certain people a year ago. I don't think this experience is a very unique case, so my advice is to expect a lot more of this kind of thing, and toughen up now. It's a shame.

Thanks for the warning, and if you decide not to make these issues public in the future, feel free to pm me with people who might be more trouble to deal with than it's worth. I'd be happy to do the same.

First of all Morphie I am so sorry you lost your fire, I have lost a cherished morph and it really sucks! You have my deepest sympathies.

As I read the thread one pattern I noticed was the empathy comments on the part of the younger folks and the reality of the situation comments from the older folks.

I think what we are seeing here is not a difference in appreciating goodness or empathy but one of lifes lessons that the older folks have dealt with many many times before. As older folks we try to teach the lessons of these experiences(not be critical as some are taking it) and unfortunately when people are emotional or hurt or frustrated they dont necessarily want to hear it.

Morphie, like me you like to do nice things for people and have had your good nature taken advantage of. I have lent friends cars, let them stay at my home, lent $ and other favors for so called friends.

I have also been disapointed when I needed a favor from someone I had done alot for and they werent intersted in helping. It stinks, it hurts, its life and you are now the wiser for it. Tuck that into your arsenal of lifes experiences and when a similar situation comes around, and it will, you will have another perspective to make your decisions accordingly. This process is something you should do with all your negative experiences, this is how we learn. Positive outcomes dont teach us much, its the negative ones that need all the adjustments, brainwork and where true lessons are learned. AKA "The School of Hard Knocks".

As a self employed business person one of the biggest things I have learned over the years is to make a decision, stick to it and move on. If it was a mistake, take responsibility, make the needed adjustment and move on. Dwelling on it makes you re-live it over and over again and as you see life will keep throwing things at you. Cant solve the next problem if you are dwelling on the last one. People who are in a rut are usually stuck in the dwelling stage.

Once again, this is much clearer to us older folks, so please dont take our comments as critical, but more as been there done that and wiser for it. (and hopefully still learning).

I am sorry you feel slighted, I am hopeful you are the wiser for it;)

Here's what I think.

First, I think I have wayyyyy too much free time of late. Heh.

In regards to this kindness and returning of the same.....

Really? Seriously? You expected to get back because you gave?

I'd say how republican of you but some of them get it.

Morphie, I consider you more aware than many I know, a person in touch with her own intelligence and value.

I think though that you're really mad at yourself but don't want to accept the responsibility for your actions. If you put it on her, that she won't "give" you back what may be the last remnants of your favorite, then she is the bad guy when deep down you know that isn't so.

It would be nice if she did and I would absolutely think very carefully before doing any business with her, but, she has no blame or fault here.

You KNOW that any kind of positive action done in expectation of reciprocation is much akin to a nice hallucination, cool but of no actual substance. I know you know that.

No one does anything they don't want to do, no matter what they say. There may be outside influences but you are a tool using primate and your brain is your primary tool. You didn't use your tool properly.

You want to be kind, you want to be nice. Neat. Cool. Good stuff and admirable as well. Of absolutely no bearing in a business deal, but ideals worth striving for.

Expecting a customer to act as you say you would were the situation reversed is foolish. Money was on the line at the time the deal was made and more may be on the line later. Money makes people suck even worse than they normally do. When it's free money, unexpected money and the chance of something like a fire is in the mix, well, you got smacked.

The bottom line is, you and you alone did this to yourself. If you must be mad, be mad at the right thing. You.

You had the option of declining the sale when you decided you didn't like the buyers attitude but you continued on. Why you continued on makes not a bit of difference. You did because you wanted to, because it was easier, I'm guessing, than stopping the transaction which may have resulted in unpleasant consequences. It seems that the possibility of those consequences outweighed your discomfort with the buyer. Deep down you know you should have told her to take a hike and, I think, you're more mad at yourself than anything else because you do know how people are.

It blows major chunks that there is a remote possibility of your special little guy's genes continuing on outside you life.

Who's fault is it that this possibility exists?

Being nice to get nice back also blows major chunks. In fact, I think it works just the opposite for those, like you, who know better.

You tempted the sisters three and they don't like that.

This buyer seems like a ..... piece. Have you considered giving her a payment to reserve first right of purchase should this egg actually hatch? She seems to be very much in favor of taking/getting just as much as she can from everyone. This leads me to believe that she may be amenable to something that would get you what you want and line her pockets with greenbacks.

She may even do it just to be "nice."

Whatever you do, put it in writing and make it public so there can be no doubting what the conclusion of any dealings you have with her should be.

In all honesty, and I'm not saying this to be mean, but I'm sort of disappointed in you.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Being nice to get nice back...

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That was not my conscious intent. I've mentioned that several times now. My conscious intent was to be friendly and helpful, but it's a slap in the face to have someone completely disregard past charity when the tables are turned. Don't act like you wouldn't also feel injured if it happened to you, because you would. It's human.

Yes, I did the wrong thing. I am here to warn others against doing the wrong thing in hopes that they will hold their ground and not get sucked into doing her favors for favor of establishing any kind of relationship, because she will take but not give. She couldn't even, out of maybe **20** waterbottles i gave her, let her friend have even one without complaining repeatedly about it. When I was obviously uncomfortable with the lowness of my prices, she continued nickel me. I declined to sell her my NFS goofy spider twice and she was still telling me to call her if I changed my mind. I have never met anyone so greedy, and when I heard that she had my fire's egg, i knew she wasn't going to give it, but i figured i had to try anyway. It was my only chance at what i had hoped, but not believed, was possible.

I'm sorry I disappointed you, but Kayoubi's in the ground, and all she cares about is maybe getting something monetary out of this. After I move, I won't even have his gravesite anymore. Yeah, I'm letting go, but not without sharing what kind of person I feel like she is.

People are capable of making their own choices. Here's my experience. That's all I'm saying.

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Originally Posted by Morphie

Don't act like you wouldn't also feel injured if it happened to you, because you would. It's human.

People are capable of making their own choices. Here's my experience. That's all I'm saying.

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If that's all you're saying, and it's beginning to sound like a poor excuse, then how come I can't make up my own mind?

I'm not going to beat you up over this but, as you said, or at least you can, I'm not sure now if it applies to me or not, people are capable of making their own choices.

You chose to do business with her knowing what type of person she presented herself as being.

For the record, I don't often feel/react as most humans do when interacting with said humans.

I should have some spiffy corns and some damnfine calkings in the next few weeks. If you want, and I want NOTHING in return, you can have your pick, just cover shipping.

It sucks that people suck, but it sucks more seeing someone in pain trying to get out from under her own responsibility. Were the situation I would hope, without expecting it, that you would do similarly for me as I am trying to for you. I know you get it.

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Originally Posted by Morphie

She couldn't even, out of maybe **20** waterbottles i gave her, let her friend have even one without complaining repeatedly about it. When I was obviously uncomfortable with the lowness of my prices, she continued nickel me.

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Witches be crazy sometimes. :P

Did you try offering her a tradeor cash for the egg, or to trade her a normal for normal, or a fire for fire when the egg hatches, so you can get back the genes of your late fire without her being out the free baby? I would try that, but I'd still be worried, because you said she wasn't prepared for any eggs or hatchlings, so even if she agreed to something she might foul up the incubation. Also, have you seen a picture of the clutch when it was laid? I'd be wondering if there were more than one good egg at the beginning, or even still, which could have guaranteed you a replacement fire with your late males genes, for the right price.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Were the situation REVERSED I would hope, without expecting it, that you would do similarly for me as I am trying to for you. I know you get it.

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I left out that key word, REVERSED (which can be typed with the left hand only) above and it's too late to edit it back in.

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Originally Posted by Morphie

It was stupid. I've been liquidating my entire collection because we're moving somewhere 1/3 as big. I didn't want to sell off everything, but I've been convinced to do it by my partner. The place is really tiny.

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Well this does confuse me further then. You want this hatchling back from her but you are liquidating your entire collection and have allowed yourself to be talked again into something you don't really want to do?????

If you are getting rid of all your snakes then what is the plan if she did give you back the hatchling resulting from this pairing. If you didn't intend to keep even one snake from the original group, I'm confused as to why you particularily want this one. I understand he's from your fire but again, I'm confused as to why you'd have room for that one but not another of yours. :confused:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

\ If you didn't intend to keep even one snake from the original group...

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Joanna, I explained in the same post that confused you that I am keeping a couple snakes. I find your confusion frustrating, because I stated it, but maybe what I said wasn't clear and it's my fault.

Wilomn, you're freaking awesome, ok? I really appreciate your offers and you're a good guy, but I will decline with a hearty "thank you anyway". I have a hard time not giving people what they ask of me, because people's feelings about me are more important than things. I get taken advantage of, because of that.

I accept responsibility for what I did. It's my fault I don't have that stupid egg. That said, if i had known how unhelpful and lacking in charity she is capable of being, i probably would have avoided dealing with her altogether, and that's why this post exists.

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Originally Posted by Morphie

Joanna, I explained in the same post that confused you that I am keeping a couple snakes. I find your confusion frustrating, because I stated it, but maybe what I said wasn't clear and it's my fault.

Wilomn, you're freaking awesome, ok? I really appreciate your offers and you're a good guy, but I will decline with a hearty "thank you anyway". I have a hard time not giving people what they ask of me, because people's feelings about me are more important than things. I get taken advantage of, because of that.

I accept responsibility for what I did. It's my fault I don't have that stupid egg. That said, if i had known how unhelpful and lacking in charity she is capable of being, i probably would have avoided dealing with her altogether, and that's why this post exists.

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Ahhh well I guess my confusion stemmed from the "entire collection" wording.

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Originally Posted by Morphie

I have a hard time not giving people what they ask of me, because people's feelings about me are more important than things. I get taken advantage of, because of that.

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Well, when you have been to the rodeo as many times as some of have, we no longer have this issue.

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Originally Posted by Morphie

if i had known how unhelpful and lacking in charity she is capable of being, i probably would have avoided dealing with her altogether, and that's why this post exists.

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But you rather did know what she was like, didn't you? Based on what I read, you had dealt with her before and knew that she constantly asked for discounts on already low prices, asked for freebies. It's pretty clear that you knew that she wasn't the most generous, kind-hearted person out there, and yet you completed several transactions with her, no? If, before this egg fiasco, someone had asked you: "do you think she'd return your generosity if you asked her?" I don't think you would have said yes and believed it. It is unfortunate that this situation occurred with this particular girl, but I can't see why you're in the least bit surprised.

I also don't think you're at all justified in calling her out publicly. Yes, you stated facts and it is clear what occurred... but she did nothing wrong. The worst she did was nickel and dime you (your fault for accepting - can't blame her for trying), and then was not generous in giving you a snake (well, just an egg even) that is rightfully hers at this point.

I know it sucks, but regardless of this egg, your fire is still underground :(... Before you knew this egg existed, you were not this furious with the buyer I'm sure. So just move on... she has done nothing wrong except be insensitive and ungenerous, and even if you did get the baby, you wouldn't get your fire back. What's done is done.

I hope you can move past this, for everyone's sake.

I kind of agree with Pat, I am not really sure why everyone is coming down so hard on her. I know if I was in her shoes I'd be upset too. It's a sad day when we have to say that kindness and generosity shouldn't be expected from people.

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Originally Posted by aaramire

I kind of agree with Pat, I am not really sure why everyone is coming down so hard on her. I know if I was in her shoes I'd be upset too. It's a sad day when we have to say that kindness and generosity shouldn't be expected from people.

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I don't think anyone is saying she is wrong for being upset. I would be extremely upset if I missed out on the opportunity to hatch a baby produced by a snake that I loved and lost. I would also be saddened if someone I had been kind and generous to in the past had this potential snake in their possession and refused to give it to me, even if I offered them fair trade or sale value.

But I would not under any circumstances post a thread about it, warning other sellers about the person in question, in the Business Inquiries section. I might post in a general discussion forum if I wanted to talk through my frustration and sadness with other snake lovers. I have been similar situations (not identical of course), and I hope I had the wherewithal to recognize my own responsibility and not try to blame others.

And lets face it, it's not like Kristy was someone she thought was a dear friend. Morphie was well aware of her penny pinching and bartering ways. While she has every right to be upset at the situation, she does not have the right to blame anyone else. Kristy has apparently not acted in a kind, generous way... but she hasn't done a thing wrong.

You can and should expect kindness and generosity from others... but you can't rely on it. You can't invest your emotions. You're just setting yourself up for disappointment if you do. There's a reason that sentimental value has no real value of its own right... for all we know, this is Kristy's first egg and the baby would mean just as much to her as it would to Morphie.

Again, I'm not saying that this isn't a sad, upsetting situation. But I think everyone needs to move on.

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Originally Posted by aaramire

I kind of agree with Pat, I am not really sure why everyone is coming down so hard on her. I know if I was in her shoes I'd be upset too. It's a sad day when we have to say that kindness and generosity shouldn't be expected from people.

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Alli, where is it written that having an opinion, especially a dissenting opinion, is "coming down on someone"? I could see if anyone was being rude, demeaning or foul tempered with Morphie but I'm sorry I'm just not seeing that.

Kindness and generosity are wonderful things. No one has said different as far as I see. What I'm getting from all these posts is that emotional responses have little place in business transactions and the more emotionally driven things get the less likely that trades or sales go all that well.

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Originally Posted by Morphie

This is an idealized theory. Fact of the matter is that altruism comes from a subconscious expectation of reciprocation. It evolved because people who stick together are generally more successful at life than people who betray each other. When you are nice to someone, you are saying "i accept you into my social circle, and I will offer you the benefits of friendship." Whether or not you care to admit it, this is an investment. "If I am nice to people, then they will be nice to me".

Otherwise, everyone would just eat everyone else's babies. :8:

Seriously though when someone breaks the cycle, everyone who has invested in them in the past feels slighted, and are less likely to extend the hand of friendship again in the future (documented studies show this also occurs in squirrel communities).

You may not expect something right then, but you do expect your kindness to be remembered, and it is offensive when it is not.

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This certainly has nothing in common with what motivates me. To assume that all people share your values is a mistake.

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Originally Posted by dsirkle

This certainly has nothing in common with what motivates me. To assume that all people share your values is a mistake.

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Not to get in arguments about the nature of the universe or anything, but it's well-documented that the reason social groups exist - the reason organisms work together - is that they evolved that way due to groups of cooperates succeeding more regularly than opportunistic individuals. What I'm saying is that, like it or not, your ability to be kind to others stems from a more primal place, which has taught your species that the way to survive is to participate in mutually beneficial relationships. It is so far removed, now, that acts of pure altruism can, and do, take place, but the place they came from still is there, and it would become important again if we all, for some reason, started breaking those inherited rules of engagement (think apocalypse and sudden water shortage).

Whatever the case, I strongly doubt that you would not feel hurt or betrayed if someone you had offered kindness to did not seem to even remember it when the shoe was on the other foot. Sure, that's not your intent when you do the nice thing in the first place, but that doesn't ease the sting of having your generosity so easily forgotten. It makes you feel violated, unless you've somehow desensitized yourself, or otherwise become jaded.

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Originally Posted by aaramire

I kind of agree with Pat, I am not really sure why everyone is coming down so hard on her. I know if I was in her shoes I'd be upset too. It's a sad day when we have to say that kindness and generosity shouldn't be expected from people.

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I think people are just trying to get a point across, and I don't see them "coming down on her". I don't honestly think this thread should have even been posted in the public forum with this thread title. Keep in mind that when anyone looks up info on the buyer in this case they will come across this thread. The title has the same effect as a "bad guy" post, and many people don't read those....they just see the "bad guy" part and move on. The buyer did nothing wrong as far as I can see. The animal was sold. Once the sale took place, it was no longer her animal and she had no further rights to it. If the the seller makes a mistake it's not the buyer's responsibility to make it right in the seller's eyes. The complaints about the buyer asking for discounts loses merit as soon as you agree to sell at those discounted prices.
It's sad that you lost your fire, but the buyer had nothing to do with it.

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Originally Posted by waltah!

Keep in mind that when anyone looks up info on the buyer in this case they will come across this thread. The title has the same effect as a "bad guy" post, and many people don't read those....they just see the "bad guy" part and move on.

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Personally I like to read the bad guy ones because i want to see what they did wrong. Maybe im just nosey...

Morphie... i think its time to throw in the towel, this isnt getting anywhere. This thread has become a mess with this and that, right and wrong....

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Originally Posted by waltah!

I think people are just trying to get a point across, and I don't see them "coming down on her". I don't honestly think this thread should have even been posted in the public forum with this thread title. Keep in mind that when anyone looks up info on the buyer in this case they will come across this thread. The title has the same effect as a "bad guy" post, and many people don't read those....they just see the "bad guy" part and move on. The buyer did nothing wrong as far as I can see. The animal was sold. Once the sale took place, it was no longer her animal and she had no further rights to it. If the the seller makes a mistake it's not the buyer's responsibility to make it right in the seller's eyes. The complaints about the buyer asking for discounts loses merit as soon as you agree to sell at those discounted prices.
It's sad that you lost your fire, but the buyer had nothing to do with it.

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And yet, having as yet heard only one side, from someone who as a rule is not given to wild flights of fancy, not prone to exaggeration, not in any way an attention seeker, perhaps a little out in left field but still well within the park, I am inclined to agree with her wanting to get this info out there.

I would not want to deal with this buyer purely based on what I have heard from what I consider to be a generally level headed individual. Her method and even wording could have been better thought out. She is aware of this and I think agrees with it.

So she got a bit emotional. It happens. She has not made excuses that were stupid or patently false. She has not tried to shift the blame for anything to anyone.

I can't see vilifying her having any positive to it at all.

It wasn't the smoothest way to get the message out there. I doubt she'll be a repeat offender.

Where are all of you who were so quick to praise the boy who lied? Here we a girl who did no actual wrong, unless making an emotional post or two is wrong (and who but me has never done that) yet she is getting less support than a guy who burned a lot of you personally.

It's fascinating.

Matt, I think you're right.

A lot of the same stuff is being said over and over, and I feel I've done a pretty good job explaining both myself and the situation. Any further answers that are required can likely be found in posts I've already made. Thanks, everyone, for either your support or your advice, whichever you offered.

I will do Kris the courtesy of a direct reply to any questions she has, should she end up also posting here, but otherwise, I'm out for now. Peace.

Wow Jessica I really didn't think that you would be so low as to start a threat about me. I am just shocked! As I explained to you in my emails, the egg is in bad shape. I dont want to move an egg from an incubator! I also reminded you that you TOLD me when I bought the snakes that there was a slim possibility the snakes were gravid and yet you STILL sold them??!! As for these "discounts" she is insisting she gave me, I bought a snake rack, rat rack at her asking prices. I bought like 15 rodent cages of off her at her asking price of $5 each because I bought all of them. The ONLY thing that I got a discount on was Herpstat, ONLY because I only had $50 left on me rather than the $60 she was asking. I didn't ask for a discount, she just said "ok" when I told her I only had $50 left. She is freaking out because I got "free" water bottles, yet I felt they came with the cages....I feel that I have been misrepresented here.

Also another thing, her snakes are kept in disgusting conditions. I was shocked when she showed me her rack and snakes. All her snakes are kept like 3-4 snakes per 32qt tubs. Every time we (a friend and I) went to her house, her snakes she showed us were covered in urine and smelled so bad. The snakes are skinny and small for their ages. I will not willingly give her another snake to put in those conditions. Thank you for listening to my side....
-Kris

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Originally Posted by kristy1277

Wow Jessica I really didn't think that you would be so low as to start a threat about me. I am just shocked! As I explained to you in my emails, the egg is in bad shape. I dont want to move an egg from an incubator! I also reminded you that you TOLD me when I bought the snakes that there was a slim possibility the snakes were gravid and yet you STILL sold them??!! As for these "discounts" she is insisting she gave me, I bought a snake rack, rat rack at her asking prices. I bought like 15 rodent cages of off her at her asking price of $5 each because I bought all of them. The ONLY thing that I got a discount on was Herpstat, ONLY because I only had $50 left on me rather than the $60 she was asking. I didn't ask for a discount, she just said "ok" when I told her I only had $50 left. She is freaking out because I got "free" water bottles, yet I felt they came with the cages....I feel that I have been misrepresented here.

Also another thing, her snakes are kept in disgusting conditions. I was shocked when she showed me her rack and snakes. All her snakes are kept like 3-4 snakes per 32qt tubs. Every time we (a friend and I) went to her house, her snakes she showed us were covered in urine and smelled so bad. The snakes are skinny and small for their ages. I will not willingly give her another snake to put in those conditions. Thank you for listening to my side....
-Kris

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As Paul Harvey said.. And that my friends is....the rest of the story.

Kris thank you for posting your side of things.

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Originally Posted by Morphie

She didn't seriously low-ball me either, for the record. She nickel-and-dimed me on already painfully low prices after I lowered them again already, at what felt like was every opportunity. It was almost insulting, but like I said, I'm a sucker, and it's important to me to be helpful when I can.

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This is ridiculous Jessica! Would you also say my friend who was with me "nickle and dimed" you? She also bought snakes at the exact same prices that I bought my 2 at. You are sounding irrational and are mad because I won't give you back the egg. You were selling large snakes for $75 (which I paid for Hope), and $60 for the smaller adults (which I paid for Lady).....

And as for "fighting" with my friend over a water bottle, we were just playing around. We always do that...because we are friend yet competitors.....its just good play......

*friend = friends

Sorry I am just very upset that I have to continue this arguement....now on a forum rather than emails with Jessica.

About her fire that died, she didnt mention the specifics. She told us that her fire died, we asked how. She said she didnt know how he died BUT only noticed that he was dead because she noticed a SMELL. I mean...come on!! What snake owner doesn't check their snakes almost every day? How long does a snake have to be dead before you notice a stench? Weeks possibly.......???

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Originally Posted by kristy1277

About her fire that died, she didnt mention the specifics. She told us that her fire died, we asked how. She said she didnt know how he died BUT only noticed that he was dead because she noticed a SMELL. I mean...come on!! What snake owner doesn't check their snakes almost every day? How long does a snake have to be dead before you notice a stench? Weeks possibly.......???

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No, it can happen within a few hours if the heat is high.

I find it very interesting, and quite telling, that in spite of these terrible conditions the snakes were kept in, too crowded, urine and feces, etc. you still purchased them.

Seems to me that someone of your undoubted intelligence would not spend a bent nickle on a snake that was not 100% healthy. Perhaps compassion was the motivating factor. Was it the kindness of your heart, crying out that these poor innocent creatures needed to be rescued? Was it your overwhelming desire to help those in need that had you make "several" trips out to see these snakes and cages?

Why, a commendation for kindness should be yours, and surely will be coming from some, because it's obvious that you had no motive other than the simple need to help fellow sufferers on this hoop of life, those poor snakes.

Unless of course you are simply a money grubbing pennypinching found a steal and got an even better price because the seller needed to sell and that makes it even better for you, read profit profit profit, because in that spot where most humans have a heart you have a tiny blackened cinder of coal that may once have actually pumped human blood but now feeds off carrion and those near death, too weak to fight you off.

I mean, I figure it must be one or the other. Right.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

I find it very interesting, and quite telling, that in spite of these terrible conditions the snakes were kept in, too crowded, urine and feces, etc. you still purchased them.

Seems to me that someone of your undoubted intelligence would not spend a bent nickle on a snake that was not 100% healthy. Perhaps compassion was the motivating factor. Was it the kindness of your heart, crying out that these poor innocent creatures needed to be rescued? Was it your overwhelming desire to help those in need that had you make "several" trips out to see these snakes and cages?

Why, a commendation for kindness should be yours, and surely will be coming from some, because it's obvious that you had no motive other than the simple need to help fellow sufferers on this hoop of life, those poor snakes.

Unless of course you are simply a money grubbing pennypinching found a steal and got an even better price because the seller needed to sell and that makes it even better for you, read profit profit profit, because in that spot where most humans have a heart you have a tiny blackened cinder of coal that may once have actually pumped human blood but now feeds off carrion and those near death, too weak to fight you off.

I mean, I figure it must be one or the other. Right.

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Her original advertisement was for the snake rack and rat rack, total price asked was $75 & $100 which I paid, didn't talk her down. She was offering female adult snakes for $100 each, I didn't have anymore money to buy any that night. And that was that....

My friend emails me to say Jessica emails her to say she was now offering her snakes at reduced prices..$75 for large, $60 for small. I did NOT talk her down on snake prices...these were her prices that she emailed my friend with. So we both go over to look at them. She brings down like 10+ snakes, all smelly and soaking wet. We both then buy a couple snakes each, this is also the night I bought the Herpstat, but I was $10 short. She didn't have to sell me the Herpstat but she wanted it gone. We bought the biggest and healthiest snakes. Jessica did not even know which snake was which, who ate what, or how often, she was clueless. My friend who does not want to get involved bought 5 snakes, 2 of which were skin and bones, and she ended up returning them. Honestly we wanted to buy ALL her snakes after discovering what kind of conditions they were living in.

Jessica needed to sell all her snake stuff...plain and simple...My friend and I bought alot of her stuff and helped her out. Eventually she was was telling my friend to just take stuff off her hands, like an incubator. I am not a heartless person that is why I am making this decision. I cannot find it in my heart to willingly put another snake in her hands right now with the living conditions she currently has.....

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Unless of course you are simply a money grubbing pennypinching found a steal and got an even better price because the seller needed to sell and that makes it even better for you, read profit profit profit, because in that spot where most humans have a heart you have a tiny blackened cinder of coal that may once have actually pumped human blood but now feeds off carrion and those near death, too weak to fight you off.

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Yesterday I saw a nice animal the owner was having to sell at what I consider a bargan basement price because they were no longer able to keep the animal. I considered buying it, but it was bought before I made my mind up. I guess this makes me a money grubbing, pennypinching, heart of coal? Or just smart? I wonder???

I'm confused Kris, first you said that when you saw the animals in the rack in such poor conditions you felt the need to "save" them, but in another post you said when she brought them down to you that you saw them and wanted to buy them because of the poor condition they were in. Why accuse her of poor husbandry if you can't even get your story straight? And why buy an animal just because its cheap when you can get healthy ones for the same or a bit more elsewhere?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LadyOhh

No, it can happen within a few hours if the heat is high.

---

Well that may be, thank you....but she made it sound like it was more than a week that she was smelling something, and just thought it was a dead rat in one of the tubs...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aaramire

I'm confused Kris, first you said that when you saw the animals in the rack in such poor conditions you felt the need to "save" them, but in another post you said when she brought them down to you that you saw them and wanted to buy them because of the poor condition they were in. Why accuse her of poor husbandry if you can't even get your story straight? And why buy an animal just because its cheap when you can get healthy ones for the same or a bit more elsewhere?

---

I did not see her rack until my third time to her house. On the night I bought the snakes, she just lugged down a bunch of snakes for us to check out and said we weren't allowed in her apartment....

You're right, I don't know why I bought them. But why am I going to pass up reasonably priced adult females? Jessica is/was selling off 99% of her collection at reduced prices....why is that my fault? My friend wanted to go and check them out so I went with her intending to see if I wanted any too. 2 caught my eye, and they looked healthy but were stinky and wet. These 2 girls are very healthy and big. Like I said, it wasnt until my last time I went to her apartment did I see the conditions because my friend was interested in possibly buying her rack when she sold off the rest of her snakes.

I am truly interested to see what Morphie has to say in response to all these accusations. I am sure that will be very enlightening.

Something we all need to remember. Only two people know 100% of everything that was said & everything that was done. So everyone be careful who you throw stones at, Morphie or Kristy. This disagreement is between them and they allone know the whole story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tonkatoyman

Something we all need to remember. Only two people know 100% of everything that was said & everything that was done. So everyone be careful who you throw stones at, Morphie or Kristy. This disagreement is between them and they allone know the whole story.

---

Thank you tonka, you are 100% right. This is why I do not understand why Jessica started this thread to begin with. We had already exchanged many emails the other day and I thought it was settled. I am not one to actually "air someone's dirty laundry" as I do not really participate in threads, but I felt like I had to defend my side of the story as I feel she really skewed the actual facts. Now this thread is here forever, I am not a bad business person, and always follow through as both buyer and seller.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kristy1277

Thank you tonka, you are 100% right. This is why I do not understand why Jessica started this thread to begin with. We had already exchanged many emails the other day and I thought it was settled. I am not one to actually "air someone's dirty laundry" as I do not really participate in threads, but I felt like I had to defend my side of the story as I feel she really skewed the actual facts. Now this thread is here forever, I am not a bad business person, and always follow through as both buyer and seller.

---

You are welcome. And to be fair I'm sure Morphie is also a good person, although you may not agree with me right now. And I'll do business with you any time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tonkatoyman

You are welcome. And to be fair I'm sure Morphie is also a good person, although you may not agree with me right now. And I'll do business with you any time.

---

I never said Jessica was a bad person, I just don't understand why she brought this to the forums. I only felt like I needed to tell my side of the story and to defend my actions because people were questioning my motives....

Now see we have story #1 and story #2. I suspect that the truth lies somewhere between.

Interesting. Very interesting.

Kris' side changes everything. If everything Kris said is true, it would have been very foolish of Jessica to start this thread, surely knowing that the truth would come to light. But, from what I've seen, Jessica does not appear to be a fool. But it's hard to believe that Jessica came hear and made up a bunch of new lies, on top of refuting all of Jessica's original accusations, also knowing that any lies would likely be uncovered. I'm sure the reality lies in the middle, just closer to one of the two official stories than it does the other...
Let's see if we can organize the issues and figure this thing out :gj:

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...433233f890.jpg

:popcorn:

Yes, I had a little spare time this morning.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morphie

Not to get in arguments about the nature of the universe or anything, but it's well-documented that the reason social groups exist - the reason organisms work together - is that they evolved that way due to groups of cooperates succeeding more regularly than opportunistic individuals. What I'm saying is that, like it or not, your ability to be kind to others stems from a more primal place, which has taught your species that the way to survive is to participate in mutually beneficial relationships. It is so far removed, now, that acts of pure altruism can, and do, take place, but the place they came from still is there, and it would become important again if we all, for some reason, started breaking those inherited rules of engagement (think apocalypse and sudden water shortage).

Whatever the case, I strongly doubt that you would not feel hurt or betrayed if someone you had offered kindness to did not seem to even remember it when the shoe was on the other foot. Sure, that's not your intent when you do the nice thing in the first place, but that doesn't ease the sting of having your generosity so easily forgotten. It makes you feel violated, unless you've somehow desensitized yourself, or otherwise become jaded.

---

I have helped and continue to help people all the time. I long ago learned that many people are givers and many people are takers. The people that chronically require the help of others are apt to appreciate it the least and are also inclined to come to rely on your help and become indignant when you are not able to help them for the 10th time with the same problem. Reciprocation has nothing to do with altruism, in fact altruism means that you do not expect reciprocation. To expect reciprocation for a good deed is called politics.I learned before you were born that if you help people you can't do so with an expectation of gratitude or reciprocation. See the prior post concerning the rodeo.

The whole point of this thread is ridiculous. Basically it comes to to the fact that Jessica KNEW that the 2 snakes were bred to her fire, she TOLD me that there was a slim possibility that they might be gravid. When one of the snake did end up having a clutch, all of a sudden she wished she never sold me the snakes and basically demanded to have the egg back. It is clearly a case of seller's remorse. Just for everyone's reading pleasure, I will cut/paste all emails between us. In the emails, you can clearly see that she KNEW that the 2 snakes locked with her fire....also she gets progressively meaner and meaner to me. Start from the bottom up....



--- On Tue, 7/14/09, S.A. <......@gmail.com> wrote:


From: S.A. <......@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: question about Hope
To: "Kris H." <ginip21@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 2:54 PM

Why? So I can just continue to be upset about this? I hope you get a great snake - hell, i hope it's a female fire and... i dunno, the fire and hope both were het for ghost and it's a fire ghost - whatever. I don't care. All I know is I should never have done business with you.

I gave you money off the snakes (you made a big deal about 5 bucks when you were getting my nicest girls for virtually nothing), off the herpstat, you got free waterbottles, and i gave you discounts on the rat cages AND the rats. I love how you don't even remember all the times i just stomached it - but then again, why should you? It wasn't you who has found this whole thing excruciatingly painful.

Enjoy your egg. Sincerely, I hope you get something awesome out of it. We're done.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Kris H. <ginip21@yahoo.com> wrote:

I never said it was hard or expensive to raise hatchlings....just saying its not a "sweet deal" as you put it. The only discounts you gave me was $10 less than what you were asking for the Herpstat. I paid for a possibly gravid snake, and thats what I got....it is not my fault that you have seller's remorse about this. Now if you want, I can keep you updated on the egg's status....if not, that is fine too.


--- On Tue, 7/14/09, S.A. <......@gmail.com> wrote:


From: S.A. <......@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: question about Hope
To: "Kris H." <ginip21@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 2:23 PM


Don't give me that nonsense about how hard it is to raise hatchlings. You have an out if you wanted it, there's something in this for you, or you wouldn't be hanging on to it so hard, even though I told you it is so important to me.

I helped you. I gave you really good deals. I let you have every discount you asked for. It's exceedingly upsetting that you can't even do me this one, stupid kindness with an egg you think is so messed up, and sit there telling me how expensive it is to raise it.

I shouldn't have sold them to you, you're right. I felt pressured by my situation, but I should have held on. I was crying when you left with them. Now you've got my girls, and their egg(s). I hope you feel good about yourself.

This is really making me angry and sad. If you really have nothing else to say except "you shouldn't have done it that way" (seriously, how is that even remotely helpful?) then we have nothing else to talk about.

Good day.


On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Kris H. <ginip21@yahoo.com> wrote:

You still havent really answered the question. Even if it was a remote possibility that they were gravid, you shouldve kept them. I dont feel like I got a sweet deal or am taking advantage. I bought them knowing that one might be gravid....and one ended up being gravid after all. I got what I paid for. I hardly feel that one possible viable egg is a sweet deal considering the effort/$$ it takes to hatch eggs and raise a hatchling. I should never have said anything about a clutch. This egg is in really bad shape, I can send you a pic if you want. I doubt it will survive after all of this anyways. Its really squished, flat and has deep creases.


--- On Tue, 7/14/09, S.A. <......@gmail.com> wrote:


From: S.A. <......@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: question about Hope
To: "Kris H." <ginip21@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 2:06 PM


Like i said, i didn't think that she was. I told you it was a remote possibility, but highly unlikely. I told you how much it would mean to me, but that doesn't matter to you. All that matters is that you might have gotten a really sweet deal and that makes me feel very taken-advantage-of. You could help me, but you choose not to. Make your choice as you want. The ball is in your court to do what you feel is right, but I don't think it's cool, and I will not deal with you anymore, or allow you to benefit from my future sales in any way.



On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Kris H. <ginip21@yahoo.com> wrote:

She doesnt want to get involved in this situation, but she agrees to the fact that you sold the snakes knowing they might be gravid and didnt say anything about wanting eggs/babies if they were gravid. I am also 100% sure that if Danielle wouldve bought Hope, she would've made the same decision. I just dont understand WHY you would sell them if you wanted to have babies from the fire. It just doesnt make sense to me. I do not think I am being selfish...actually I think you are being really unfair since this was your decision in the first place to sell Lady and Hope. Again, I am sorry...and I feel that I am making the right decision.


--- On Tue, 7/14/09, S.A. <......@gmail.com> wrote:


From: S.A. <......@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: question about Hope
To: "Kris H." <ginip21@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 1:15 PM


To ask her what she thought, if she thought I or you were being irrational (since she knows you). I know I could take care of the egg just fine, and that it would be OK. Even if it hatches and as a viable snake, you wouldn't give it to me, would you? I can't see this as anything but you being selfish, and I think it's really lame after all the breaks I gave you.

I don't have a problem with Danielle, I actually think she's pretty awesome, but I don't want to do anything else that might benefit you, and since you guys are together in some deals, that probably precludes me dealing with her.



On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Kris H. <ginip21@yahoo.com> wrote:

I am really sorry that you feel that way. You decided to sell the snakes knowing that they possibly mightve been gravid. Also you are not in a condition to have anymore snakes, currently your snakes are residing 2+ per bin. As I had said, the egg is in really bad shape, and it would be very irresponsible to move the egg from the incubator to give it a chance at life. Please do not take out your anger at my "associates" like Danielle, whom I know will be wanting to buy your rack when its available. She has nothing to do with this situation...she told me you sent her our conversation.


--- On Tue, 7/14/09, S.A. <......@gmail.com> wrote:


From: S.A. <......@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: question about Hope
To: "Kris H." <ginip21@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 11:43 AM


I am sorry I ever sold anything to you. You have no heart of sense of empathy. Thanks for nothing.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Kris H. <ginip21@yahoo.com> wrote:

Yes I asked for the water bottles because I bought like 20 cages off of you, and I only got like 4 bottles the first time around. I gave you full asking price for the 2 racks, and only asked if you;d take $50 (versus $60) for the Herpstat because thats all I had left. I also paid the full asking price on the 2 snakes. I am sorry, but I dont want to give up the egg, nor move it from the incubator. You knew that there was a possibility that either of the 2 snakes mightve been gravid from the fire but you still sold them. You shouldve kept them to see if they were going to lay or not. I am sorry....

-Kris

--- On Tue, 7/14/09, S.A. <......@gmail.com> wrote:


From: S.A. <......@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: question about Hope
To: "Kris H." <ginip21@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 11:21 AM


It is inaccurate to say you gave me asking price. You talked me down on several items, and when I found spare waterbottles laying around, you asked if you could have them, and I gave them to you.

I know who hope locked with, and I am asking you again to give me the egg. I can transport it safely myself, and it will be fine. I am willing to offer you something in trade, but you got so many things from me at extremely fair prices, I would hope that you wouldn't ask much. It is a matter of sentimental value that I have this egg hatch, even if it's just a normal. Please.


On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Kris H. <ginip21@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi, I said that the remaining egg doesnt look to be in good shape and has very few veins and is squished. If I had any hope of it surviving full term at all, I dont want to move it from the incubator. And just for the record, everything I bought from you I gave you your asking price...and since I bought all your leftover cages I assumed the water bottles came with the cages. I asked Danielle and she said that she remembered you had told me the fire locked with Lady, not Hope. Maybe Hope locked with a different male?


--- On Tue, 7/14/09, S.A. <......@gmail.com> wrote:


From: S.A. <......@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: question about Hope
To: "Kris H." <ginip21@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:39 AM


I know you probably won't, but it would mean really a lot to me if you would give me the good egg. I was crushed when I lost my fire, and i would like to have the egg.

I was really nice and gave you lots of free water bottles and discounts. I know this is asking a lot, but it really would mean a lot for me to have it.

your call.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Kris H. <ginip21@yahoo.com> wrote:

Yes I will keep you updated. I had to scramble to put together a makeshift incubator since my big one isnt finished yet. I swear you only told that Lady locked with the fire....maybe I just heard you wrong. The clutch was 4 eggs and 1 slug, when I found them 2 were definitely bad, 1 iffy and 1 had some veins (but I saw the embryo moving). I am incubating the iffy egg and the egg with veins....we'll see. Thanks.
-Kris

--- On Tue, 7/14/09, S.A. <......@gmail.com> wrote:


From: S.A. <......@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: question about Hope
To: "Kris H." <ginip21@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:22 AM


I am sure I mentioned Hope's situation.

It would be a fire clutch. She probably layed prematurely due to the stress of moving. I didn't think she was, but I told you it was a remote possibility. I'm sorry for the surprise.

Please tell me how the one egg does, and what it gives you if it survives. I lost the fire that bred her, but he was an especially nice-looking guy.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 9:08 AM,
Kris H. <ginip21@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hope laid a clutch of eggs recently. I actually just found them last night when I lifted out her hide to try feeding her again (she hadnt been eating). I am not actually sure when they were laid, I am thinking about a week ago. Because I didnt even know she was gravid I wasnt looking for eggs, so unfortunately only 1 was still good but doesnt look that nice...so who knows if it will survive. Anyways, I am writing because you never told me that Hope was paired with anybody, you only mentioned Lady as a possibility. Who was Hope locked up with in case the one egg makes it? Thanks...
-Kris

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tonkatoyman

Yesterday I saw a nice animal the owner was having to sell at what I consider a bargan basement price because they were no longer able to keep the animal. I considered buying it, but it was bought before I made my mind up. I guess this makes me a money grubbing, pennypinching, heart of coal? Or just smart? I wonder???

---

You ASS ume much, read poorly and comprehend, if possible, even worse than that.

However, I do find it interesting that you support someone knowing, I ASS ume, little more than I do yet you feel comfortable doing to me exactly what you have accused me of doing to you. I haven't, but if the shoe fits, well, it's yours to wear. Doubtless you'll be comfortable in it, being so clever and crafty and just all around smart; too smart to put on something that didn't fit just because you wanted to make a point to someone who truly couldn't care less what you thought.

LOL

I wonder if the blisters I see in your future will be painful....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kristy1277

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 9:08 AM,
Kris H. <ginip21@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hope laid a clutch of eggs recently. I actually just found them last night when I lifted out her hide to try feeding her again (she hadnt been eating). I am not actually sure when they were laid, I am thinking about a week ago. Because I didnt even know she was gravid I wasnt looking for eggs, so unfortunately only 1 was still good but doesnt look that nice...so who knows if it will survive. Anyways, I am writing because you never told me that Hope was paired with anybody, you only mentioned Lady as a possibility. Who was Hope locked up with in case the one egg makes it? Thanks...
-Kris

---

I think you're lying.

You got the snake and never looked at it for a week?

You tried to feed it, yet you never saw it?

It laid eggs, possibly a week before you noticed them yet you tried, more than once, to feed the snake?

Yup, sounds like someone is having trouble keeping her stories straight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

You ASS ume much, read poorly and comprehend, if possible, even worse than that.

However, I do find it interesting that you support someone knowing, I ASS ume, little more than I do yet you feel comfortable doing to me exactly what you have accused me of doing to you. I haven't, but if the shoe fits, well, it's yours to wear. Doubtless you'll be comfortable in it, being so clever and crafty and just all around smart; too smart to put on something that didn't fit just because you wanted to make a point to someone who truly couldn't care less what you thought.

LOL

I wonder if the blisters I see in your future will be painful....

---

The calluses I wear from being well so ass urtive in my oppinions in the past will shield me from any blisters in the future. LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

I think you're lying.

You got the snake and never looked at it for a week?

You tried to feed it, yet you never saw it?

It laid eggs, possibly a week before you noticed them yet you tried, more than once, to feed the snake?

Yup, sounds like someone is having trouble keeping her stories straight.

---

Believe what you want. If Jessica posts her emails, they will be the same emails. I did not edit anything. The eggs were in the hide, I didn't lift out the hide during that week. She was not coiled around the eggs, half of her was in the hide, front half out. Then when I tried to feed again, I decided to take out the hide hoping she would eat without her hide in the tub. When I took out the hide, the eggs were there. I got the snakes June 13th, and did not think either snake was gravid so I was not looking for eggs. This was my 3rd time trying to feed Hope, now at least I know why she wasnt eating.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

Well I guess I'll play the devil's advocate here but Morphie I don't see where you got taken advantage of at all.

If you decide as a seller to discount anything or give it away outright free, whether that is a living creature or a supply item, why is it the buyer's fault you made this decision? You have every right to say no to anything a buyer asks. You said yes, yet you come back later and want to blame another for your decisions?

As far as the gravid female, unless I'm mistaken you sold her not knowing if she was gravid or not. You did, however, pair this snake so the chance she was gravid was there. You made the decision not to wait out the time to find out if in fact a clutch sired by your now deceased fire was brewing.

As much as I feel bad for you regarding your fire, from a fair business standpoint I don't think you have a leg to stand on. If you had agreed to a sale wherein any resultant offspring where yours or split 50/50 but you didn't - you sold a possibly gravid female and now want to complain because your buyer didn't hand over a "bonus" type of offspring. Business is business Morphie and emotions like empathy do not have a place there nor can be demanded from someone.

I don't think you should be referring to someone else's "talksdowns" after you are publically calling another person out with some pretty negative terms yourself.

---

I agree with this statement of facts and was told just right!!!!

The emails are accurate.

When they asked if they could come over, my house was trashed because we are moving (did i mention that? that's why the snakes are being sold). I have terrible anxiety about people being in my [messy] house, so I asked if we could deal on the porch. I brought down everything they asked to see, and gave them every piece of information I had about the snakes as accurately as I could manage.

While on the porch, Kris would make comments in passing designed to get me to give in to what she wanted: the ability to come upstairs and browse my equipment at her whim. Things like "this would be easier if we could just come up..." etc. On the final visit, I got tired of all of that crap and invited them up.

10 of the girls i was selling did not belong to me - they belong to another individual, and I was breeding them with my males. When I found out we were moving, I contacted the partner and asked him what to do with his girls and racks. He asked me to sell them, so I did.

I did/do have a couple of pretty thin girls (one is mine, one was his). I was reluctant to even offer the thin ones because I wasn't sure what experience level Kris and her friends are at. The girls have not been eating, and I'm rather worried about them, but I know how to deal and I am dealing (i know they *do* eat - they have in the past, they just have to get going again somehow). I warned them about the situation, told them how long it had been since the last meal, and asked them if they were ready to try to get non-eater adults started. They said yes, and I believed them, so they were purchased and later returned when the girl who bought them couldn't handle it (I am currently handling it, but the situation is rough considering the move. Obviously the snakes themselves are the main concern, and they won't be sold to any n00bs before they're fat again).

Kris bought a rack that holds 15 - 18 tubs, which housed most of the collection. I have a vision rack that holds 10 tubs, and I recently sold an RBI rack that has 8 tubs. Last time I sold snakes in quantity was before the recession, so I failed to consider that it might take some time to move so many girls. That said, I sold Kris her rack a bit prematurely, and thus I did end up housing some snakes together (stressed, thin ones always get their own tubs no matter what). I made a stack of tubs in the corner and a temp-rack using reflectix and ultratherm heatpads and kept my head above water that way until I sold a few more girls. The girls that were wet when I brought them down were in humid tubs, and so I gave several of them a quick rinse with lukewarm water before hauling a bunch of them downstairs.

Kris, If my snakes are so horrible, and in such deplorable conditions -- If you're "rescuing" my horribly neglected snakes, why did the two who needed your help most come back while you guys kept all the big fat ones? I'm sure keeping the fire's egg is all about saving that poor widdle hatchling from the big, bad me who had to stretch to make ends meet for a couple weeks. Yeah, there's nothing in it for you at all. It's purely the charity of your gracious heart that's making you keep it.

Like I said, considering the pain this has caused me, I hope it's *really* worth it for you. Whatever you need to make it worth it, I hope you get it.

The way you characterized your interactions with your friend, and the way you characterize your wheedling with me are not accurate. You were pouting all over the house about that stupid waterbottle, and your friend kept saying things to the effect of "you always do this crap, Kris".

I am not saying my side is as god saw it, but it is really distressing how many things you asked for and got, which now you simply don't remember. No wonder you think you're justified in keeping that egg.

Anyway thanks for the slander. Awesome.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morphie

I couldn't help it if i wanted. I might as well just go get my SUCKER tattoo right now.

What do you think? Forehead so they can read it when they meet me? Chest so they can read it when I give them my shirt? Or back, so they can read it when they stab me?

(i know that's a little extreme - i feel incredibly crappy and cynical right now. Sorry.)

---

Boohoo. She bought them fair and square as poss gravid one lays and you want the egg. You shouldn't have sold them if you wanted the eggs. No one did anything wrong, except you making this thread.

Kris, reading back through the emails, I realize how I came off. I didn't really have the right to be that way with you, and for that I'm sorry.

I still feel hurt and mistreated; I still want nothing to do with you business-wise, but I'm sorry that my emotions got in the way of my diplomacy when I was asking for your help. I should be better about that, regardless of what I think is the way something -should- be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by max123

Boohoo. She bought them fair and square as poss gravid one lays and you want the egg. You shouldn't have sold them if you wanted the eggs. No one did anything wrong, except you making this thread.

---

A little tip: If you think something you have to say is worthwhile, don't couple it to an insult. No one is ever, ever, ever going to take you seriously if you start off by patronizing them or trying to belittle them. You might as well save your breath.

Try writing something 100% constructive, just as an exercise.