Chemtrails

I never said I thought I knew what the trails were, just that it appears that there is a difference between con-trails and other trails, and that I wished I could get a solid answer somewhere. Look at all the different, yet definitive answers members here have given. :)

And if the last administration lied about WMDs as a reason for war, that means that the real reason was something different. That by definition is a conspiracy. So anyone who doesn't believe that that is the reason, and who has ideas about what the real reason might have been, has conspiracy theories. If it was based on a lie, then at least one of the theories is likely to be true. But it would be hard to prove without the administration coming out and admitting the real reason. I never wore a foil hat nor was I ever worried that aliens might get me when I spent time in the desert or in rural areas, but I try to stay open minded to possibilities other than what I hear on Fox news or CNN, and if something might be happening that could potentially effect me I don't trust anyone other than myself to look into it.

I have the same open mindedness with religion. I was raised Christian, and I still have Christian faith, but I call myself an agnostic Christian, never pretending that I know that there is one correct religion or that I know any more than anyone else. It's surprising how much knowledge (and B.S.) can be gained by being a little open minded and satisfying your own curiosity instead of taking someone else' word for things.

I hope all you guys know these are condensation trails. Literally it is just a cloud. I'm honestly shocked at the number of people that don't understand the concept.

The two major components of exhaust are co2 and water vapor. Take that hot exhaust and cool it off and what do you get? You get air that is past its saturation point. Voila, the water vapor condensates into clouds.

The same thing can occur due to the changing pressure of the air flowing over the wing. I'm not going to go into great detail but if you understand the concept of an aerofoil, then you know that the pressure above the wing is much lower than the pressure below the wing. Air at a lower pressure cannot hold as much water vapor and again condensation can form.

The condensation trails produced at high altitudes are generally from the engines and the condensation trails at lower altitudes are generally from the pressure changes over the wings due to the higher ambient humidity at the lower altitudes.

The formation of these trails is all dependent on temperature and humidity where the plane is flying.

The rate that the cloud disperses is going to depend entirely on how the air is moving around it. Very calm or very smoothly flowing air will allow it to last longer where as turbulence will tend to disperse it much more quickly.

People really do like to jump on the conspiracy band wagon when there are things they don't understand. Anybody seen the "crazy sprinkler lady" on youtube?

EDIT: As for the climate experimentation, I think people are misinterpreting that. All of the studies I have seen on the subject are trying to determine if/how the condensation trails effect the weather/climate NOT purposely producing clouds as part of an experiment.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

I never said I thought I knew what the trails were, just that it appears that there is a difference between con-trails and other trails, and that I wished I could get a solid answer somewhere. Look at all the different, yet definitive answers members here have given. :)

And if the last administration lied about WMDs as a reason for war, that means that the real reason was something different. That by definition is a conspiracy. So anyone who doesn't believe that that is the reason, and who has ideas about what the real reason might have been, has conspiracy theories. If it was based on a lie, then at least one of the theories is likely to be true. But it would be hard to prove without the administration coming out and admitting the real reason. I never wore a foil hat nor was I ever worried that aliens might get me when I spent time in the desert or in rural areas, but I try to stay open minded to possibilities other than what I hear on Fox news or CNN, and if something might be happening that could potentially effect me I don't trust anyone other than myself to look into it.

I have the same open mindedness with religion. I was raised Christian, and I still have Christian faith, but I call myself an agnostic Christian, never pretending that I know that there is one correct religion or that I know any more than anyone else. It's surprising how much knowledge (and B.S.) can be gained by being a little open minded and satisfying your own curiosity instead of taking someone else' word for things.

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There is no such thing as an agnostic christian. An agnostic according to Webster is "one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or non-existence of a god." "A person who holds the view that any ultimate reality as god is unknown." Whereas a christian's only charge is to believe in god.

People have all the answers without even investigating, fluoride in our water WORKS!


http://imageevent.com/firesat/strangedaysstrangeskies

LIFE IN THE TIME OF CHEMTRAILS 1997-2009: YOU ARE NOW BREATHING ETHYLENE DIBROMIDE, NANO-PARTICULATES OF ALUMINUM AND BARIUM AND CATIONIC POLYMER FIBERS WITH UNIDENTIFIED BIOACTIVE MATERIAL: "We the people have not been warned, advised or consulted but are certainly vulnerable to the outcomes." Lightwatcher.com "Biologic components have been reported in airborne samples that include: modified molds, desiccated red blood cells and exotic strains of bacteria" Additionally, award winning investigative reporter, Will Thomas, has reported findings of over 300 types of virally mutated fungi in the chemtrail fall out. The Idaho Observer has reported findings of 26 metals including barium, aluminum and uranium, a variety of infectious pathogens and chemicals and drugs including sedatives in chemtrail fallout. Dr.R. Michael Castle reports the finding of cationic polymer fibers. Dr Hildegarde Staninger and Dr. Rahim Karjoom have reported findings of tiny parasitic nematode eggs of some type encased in the fibers. Additionally Drs. Staninger and Karjoom have reported findings of self-replicating nano-machines and rivers of silicon running wild through the bodies of the Morgellons infected. Researcher Clifford Carnicom has reported finding chemtrails fibers that are an exact match with the bizarre fibers found in those suffering from Morgellons Disease. Welcome to the brave new world of toxic skies, weather control, mind control and population control through the use of chemtrails modulated with electromagnetic frequencies generated by HAARP. Our health is under attack as evidenced by the skyrocketing rates of chemtrail induced lung cancer, asthma and pulmonary/respiratory problems as well as the emergence of a bizarre and frightening new plague, Morgellons Disease, an infection with a previously unknown agent that appears to be a synthesis of a bio lab created pathogen combined with self-replicating nano-technology. Over 60,000 families in the U.S. are now infected with Morgellons. I am one of the infected. My health and the health of my family has already been drastically affected. There is a main-stream media blackout on this subject so the only way to get the word out is by word of mouth. Realized or not people are already dying from chemtrail related illnesses. People are dying from Morgellons Disease. During this time of chemtrails a shocking drop in general life expectancy in the U.S. has occurred. This situation presents an immediate and serious threat to you, your family and loved ones. We must join together to stop this insane program of chemtrail spraying now. Some of you reading this may be in a position of influence and power to take significant action to bring chemtrails to a halt. Everyone can do something to help. Whatever your position or realm of influence please do whatever you can to bring an end to the aerosol spray program known as Chemtrails.

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Originally Posted by Serpents_Den

People have all the answers without even investigating, fluoride in our water WORKS!


http://imageevent.com/firesat/strangedaysstrangeskies

LIFE IN THE TIME OF CHEMTRAILS 1997-2009: YOU ARE NOW BREATHING ETHYLENE DIBROMIDE, NANO-PARTICULATES OF ALUMINUM AND BARIUM AND CATIONIC POLYMER FIBERS WITH UNIDENTIFIED BIOACTIVE MATERIAL: "We the people have not been warned, advised or consulted but are certainly vulnerable to the outcomes." Lightwatcher.com "Biologic components have been reported in airborne samples that include: modified molds, desiccated red blood cells and exotic strains of bacteria" Additionally, award winning investigative reporter, Will Thomas, has reported findings of over 300 types of virally mutated fungi in the chemtrail fall out. The Idaho Observer has reported findings of 26 metals including barium, aluminum and uranium, a variety of infectious pathogens and chemicals and drugs including sedatives in chemtrail fallout. Dr.R. Michael Castle reports the finding of cationic polymer fibers. Dr Hildegarde Staninger and Dr. Rahim Karjoom have reported findings of tiny parasitic nematode eggs of some type encased in the fibers. Additionally Drs. Staninger and Karjoom have reported findings of self-replicating nano-machines and rivers of silicon running wild through the bodies of the Morgellons infected. Researcher Clifford Carnicom has reported finding chemtrails fibers that are an exact match with the bizarre fibers found in those suffering from Morgellons Disease. Welcome to the brave new world of toxic skies, weather control, mind control and population control through the use of chemtrails modulated with electromagnetic frequencies generated by HAARP. Our health is under attack as evidenced by the skyrocketing rates of chemtrail induced lung cancer, asthma and pulmonary/respiratory problems as well as the emergence of a bizarre and frightening new plague, Morgellons Disease, an infection with a previously unknown agent that appears to be a synthesis of a bio lab created pathogen combined with self-replicating nano-technology. Over 60,000 families in the U.S. are now infected with Morgellons. I am one of the infected. My health and the health of my family has already been drastically affected. There is a main-stream media blackout on this subject so the only way to get the word out is by word of mouth. Realized or not people are already dying from chemtrail related illnesses. People are dying from Morgellons Disease. During this time of chemtrails a shocking drop in general life expectancy in the U.S. has occurred. This situation presents an immediate and serious threat to you, your family and loved ones. We must join together to stop this insane program of chemtrail spraying now. Some of you reading this may be in a position of influence and power to take significant action to bring chemtrails to a halt. Everyone can do something to help. Whatever your position or realm of influence please do whatever you can to bring an end to the aerosol spray program known as Chemtrails.

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Flouride in our water works for children up to the age of about six. Adults do not require, or absorb, floride from drinking water. The excess floride in drinking water collects in adult's joints where it works to grind and wear out joints resulting in arthritis.

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Originally Posted by Jenn

Flouride in our water works for children up to the age of about six. Adults do not require, or absorb, floride from drinking water. The excess floride in drinking water collects in adult's joints where it works to grind and wear out joints resulting in arthritis.

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Fluoride is the main ingredient in Rat Poison. So you are saying only children up to age six can absorb this poison and adults don't absorb this poison but reap the benefit to grind down their joints to get arthritis...LOL

AMAZING

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jenn

There is no such thing as an agnostic christian. An agnostic according to Webster is "one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or non-existence of a god." "A person who holds the view that any ultimate reality as god is unknown." Whereas a christian's only charge is to believe in god.

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There is such thing. There is one sitting on my couch right now. I thought my post was pretty clear. My religion is Christianity, since I was brought up with those teachings and I'm most fluent in that belief system, while my own spiritual philosophy is that I don't have any special knowledge, outside of faith, to know whether or not any one religion is better than others, or if there even is a god. I think my term agnostic Christian fits pretty well. Also, believing in God is not a Christian's only charge.

There are also atheist Jews, fyi.

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Originally Posted by Serpents_Den

Fluoride is the main ingredient in Rat Poison. So you are saying only children up to age six can absorb this poison and adults don't absorb this poison but reap the benefit to grind down their joints to get arthritis...LOL

AMAZING

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http://www.greaterthings.com/Lexicon/F/Fluoride.htm
The Truth About 'Fluoride'
(or what every Mother should know)
by A. True Ott
tott@mountainwest.net
© August 2000
See also | Feedback
Fluoride used by Nazis to sterilize inmates and make them docile. Fluoride a key dumbing down ingredient of Prozac and Sarin nerve gas -- poisons of choice for tyrant rats.
First of all, it needs to be stated that the 'substance' referred to as 'Fluoride' is a misnomer - there is no such substance listed in the periodic chart of the elements, nor in the prestigious CRC handbook, nor in the sacred 'bible' of the pharmaceutical industry - the illustrious 'Merck Index'. Instead, we find a GAS called Fluorine - and from the use of this gas in various industries such as aluminum manufacturing and the nuclear industry -certain toxic byproducts are created which have 'captured' fluorine molecules. One such toxic, poisonous 'byproduct' is called sodium Fluoride - which according to the Merck Index is primarily used as rat and cockroach poison and is also the active ingredient in most toothpastes and as an "additive to drinking water". But sadly, there is much more to this sordid tale.
Did you know that sodium Fluoride is also one of the basic ingredients in both PROZAC (FLUoxetene Hydrochloride) and Sarin Nerve Gas (Isopropyl-Methyl-Phosphoryl FLUORIDE) - (Yes, folks the same Sarin Nerve Gas that terrorists released on a crowded Japanese subway train!). Let me repeat: the truth the American public needs to understand is the fact that Sodium Fluoride is nothing more (or less) than a hazardous waste by-product of the nuclear and aluminum industries. In addition to being the primary ingredient in rat and cockroach poisons, it is also a main ingredient in anesthetic, hypnotic, and psychiatric drugs as well as military NERVE GAS! Why, oh why then is it allowed to be added to the toothpastes and drinking water of the American people?
Historically, this substance was quite expensive for the worlds' premier chemical companies to dispose of - but in the 50's and 60's - Alcoa and the entire aluminum industry - with a vast overabundance of the toxic waste - SOMEHOW sold the FDA and our government on the insane (but highly profitable) idea of buying this poison at a 20,000% markup and then injecting it into our water supply as well as into the nation's toothpastes and dental rinse. Yes that's right folks, a 20,000% markup. Consider also that when sodium Fluoride is injected into our drinking water, its level is approximately 1 part-per-million (ppm), but since we only drink ½ of one percent of the total water supply, the hazardous chemical literally 'goes down the drain' and voila - the chemical industry has not only a free hazardous waste disposal system - but we have also PAID them handsomely in the process!!
Independent scientific evidence over the past 50 plus years has shown that sodium fluoride shortens our life span, promotes various cancers and mental disturbances, and most importantly, makes humans stupid, docile, and subservient, all in one neat little package. There is increasing evidence that aluminum in the brain is a causative factor in Alzheimer's Disease, and evidence points towards sodium fluoride's strong affinity to 'bond' with this dangerous aluminum (remember it is a byproduct of aluminum manufacturing) and also it has the ability to 'trick' the blood-brain barrier by imitating the hydrogen ion thus allowing this chemical access to brain tissue.
Honest scientists who have attempted to blow the whistle on sodium fluoride's mega-bucks propaganda campaign have consistently been given a large dose of professional 'black-listing' and thus their valid points disputing the current vested interests never have received the ink they deserve in the national press. Just follow the money to find the 'control' and you will find prominent American families to be prominent 'players' in the scandal. In 1952 a slick PR campaign rammed the concept of 'fluoridation' through our Public Health departments and various dental organizations. This slick campaign was more akin to a highly emotional "beer salesman convention" instead of the objective, scientifically researched program that it should have been. It has continued in the same vein right up to the present day - and now sodium fluoride use has now become 'usual and customary'.
To illustrate the emotional vs. the scientific nature of this issue, just look at the response given by people (perhaps yourself included?) when the subject of fluoridation comes up. You need to ask yourself, "Is this particular response based on EMOTIONS born of TRADITION, or is it truly unbiased and based instead on thoroughly researched objectivity?" There is a tremendous amount of emotional, highly unscientific "know-it-all" emotions attached to the topic of 'sodium fluoride' usage -but I personally have yet to find even ONE objective, double blind study that even remotely links sodium fluoride to healthy teeth at ANY AGE. Instead, I hear and read such blather as "9 out of 10 DENTISTS recommend 'fluoride' toothpaste" etc. etc. etc. Let me reiterate: truly independent (unattached to moneyed vested interest groups) scientists who've spent a large portion of their lives studying and working with this subject have been hit with a surprising amount of unfair character assassinations from strong vested-interest groups who reap grand profits from the public's ignorance as well as from their illnesses. (Just follow the money!)
Do you have diabetes and/or kidney disease? There are reportedly more than 11 million Americans with diabetes. If it is true that diabetics drink more liquids than other people, then according to the Physicians Desk Reference these 11 million people are at much higher risk drinking fluoridated water because they will receive a much deadlier dose because of their need for higher than normal water consumption. Kidney disease, by definition, lowers the efficiency of the kidneys, which of course is the primary means in which fluoride (or any other toxic chemical) is eliminated from the body. Does it not make sense that these people shouldn't drink fluoridated water at all? Cases are on record (Annapolis, Maryland, 1979) where ill kidney patients on dialysis machines died because they ingested relatively small amounts of SODIUM FLUORIDE from unwittingly drinking the 'fluoridated' city water supply? Will adequate warnings be given to people with weak kidneys, or will the real cause of such deaths be 'covered up' in the name of 'domestic tranquility'?
Concerning the 'practice' of putting sodium fluoride into drinking water, where did this insanity begin and WHO tried it first? From personal research, the very first occurrence of purposefully putting sodium fluoride into drinking water was in the German ghettos and in Nazi Germany's infamous prison camps. The Gestapo you see had little concern about sodium fluoride's 'supposed' effect on children's teeth; instead, their reason for mass-medicating water with sodium fluoride was to STERILIZE HUMANS and force the people in their concentration camps into calm, bovine, submission. (See for reference: "The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben" written by Joseph Borkin.) Kind of shocking isn't it folks!! Ah, but it gets even better.
The following letter was received by the Lee Foundation for Nutritional Research, Milwaukee Wisconsin, on 2 October 1954, from a research chemist by the name of Charles Perkins. He writes:
"I have your letter of September 29 asking for further documentation regarding a statement made in my book, "The Truth about Water Fluoridation", to the effect that the idea of water fluoridation was brought to England from Russia by the Russian Communist Kreminoff. In the 1930's Hitler and the German Nazis envisioned a world to be dominated and controlled by a Nazi philosophy of pan-Germanism. The German chemists worked out a very ingenious and far-reaching plan of mass-control which was submitted to and adopted by the German General Staff. This plan was to control the population in any given area through mass medication of drinking water supplies. By this method they could control the population in whole areas, reduce population by water medication that would produce sterility in women, and so on. In this scheme of mass-control, sodium fluoride occupied a prominent place.
"Repeated doses of infinitesimal amounts of fluoride will in time reduce an individual's power to resist domination, by slowly poisoning and narcotizing a certain area of the brain, thus making him submissive to the will of those who wish to govern him. [A convenient and cost-effective light lobotomy? --- Ott].
"The real reason behind water fluoridation is not to benefit children's teeth. If this were the real reason there are many ways in which it could be done that are much easier, cheaper, and far more effective. The real purpose behind water fluoridation is to reduce the resistance of the masses to domination and control and loss of liberty."
"When the Nazis under Hitler decided to go to Poland, both the German General Staff and the Russian General Staff exchanged scientific and military ideas, plans, and personnel, and the scheme of mass control through water medication was seized upon by the Russian Communists because it fitted ideally into their plans to communize the world."
"I was told of this entire scheme by a German chemist who was an official of the great I.G. Farben chemical industries and was also prominent in the Nazi movement at the time. I say this with all the earnestness and sincerity of a scientist who has spent nearly 20 years' research into the chemistry, biochemistry, physiology and pathology of fluorine --- any person who drinks artificially fluorinated water for a period of one year or more will never again be the same person mentally or physically."
Signed: CHARLES E. PERKINS, Chemist, 2 October, 1954.
Another letter needs to be quoted at length as well to help corroborate Mr. Perkin's testimony. This letter was written by a brilliant (and objectively honest) scientist named Dr. E.H. Bronner. Dr. Bronner was a nephew of the great Albert Einstein, served time in a WWII prison camp and wrote the following letter printed in the Catholic Mirror, Springfield, MA, January 1952:
"It appears that the citizens of Massachusetts are among the 'next' on the agenda of the water poisoners.
"There is a sinister network of subversive agents, Godless intellectual parasites, working in our country today whose ramifications grow more extensive, more successful and more alarming each new year and whose true objective is to demoralize, paralyze and destroy our great Republic ---- from within if they can, according to their plan --- for their own possession."
"The tragic success they have already attained in their long siege to destroy the moral fiber of American life is now one of their most potent footholds towards their own ultimate victory over us."
"Fluoridation of our community water systems can well become their most subtle weapon for our sure physical and mental deterioration. As a research chemist of established standing, I built within the past 22 years 3 American chemical plants and licensed 6 of my 53 patents. Based on my years of practical experience in the health food and chemical field, let me warn: fluoridation of drinking water is criminal insanity, sure national suicide. DON'T DO IT!!"
"Even in very small quantities, sodium fluoride is a deadly poison to which no effective antidote has been found. Every exterminator knows that it is the most effective rat-killer. Sodium Fluoride is entirely different from organic calcium-fluoro-phosphate needed by our bodies and provided by nature, in God's great providence and love, to build and strengthen our bones and our teeth. This organic calcium-fluoro-phosphate, derived from proper foods, is an edible organic salt, insoluble in water and assimilable by the human body; whereas the non-organic sodium fluoride used in fluoridating water is instant poison to the body and fully water soluble. The body refuses to assimilate it."
"Careful, bonafide laboratory experimentation by conscientious, patriotic research chemists, and actual medical experience, have both revealed that instead of preserving or promoting 'dental health', fluoridated drinking water destroys teeth before adulthood and after, by the destructive mottling and other pathological conditions it actually causes in them, and also creates many other very grave pathological conditions in the internal organisms of bodies consuming it. How then can it be called a 'health plan'? What's behind it?"
"That any so-called 'Doctors' would persuade a civilized nation to add voluntarily a deadly poison to its drinking water systems is unbelievable. It is the height of criminal insanity!"
"No wonder Hitler and Stalin fully believed and agreed from 1939 to 1941 that, quoting from both Lenin's 'Last Will' and Hitler's Mein Kampf: "America we shall demoralize, divide, and destroy from within."
"Are our Civil Defense organizations and agencies awake to the perils of water poisoning by fluoridation? Its use has been recorded in other countries. Sodium Fluoride water solutions are the cheapest and most effective rat killers known to chemists: colorless, odorless, tasteless; no antidote, no remedy, no hope: Instant and complete extermination of rats."
"Fluoridation of water systems can be slow national suicide, or quick national liquidation. It is criminal insanity ------- treason!!"
Signed: Dr. E.H. Bronner, Research Chemist, Los Angeles
Apparently, the public outcry by Dr. Bronner and others precluded the fluoridation of public water systems for a season - but soon thereafter, the Food and Drug Administration allowed this deadly poison to be put in 'toothpaste', and our dentists were systematically brainwashed into providing 'fluoride treatments' to their many patients. Of course, today many major metropolitan areas have a minimum of 1 parts per million sodium fluoride systematically added to their water supply and more areas are seeking to add this poison every year. Add to this the fact that bottling companies (soft drinks, juices, etc.) use fluoridated water to make their products - is it any wonder that people can no longer think clearly and ask pertinent questions of their elected and ecclesiastical leaders? Is it also a mystery why so many top Nazi mind control scientists were brought to America by the CIA and their infamous 'Operation Paper Clip'?
If you believe all of this is 'just a coincidence' - go ahead and keep brushing your teeth with your 'fluoride' toothpaste and sucking on your sodium fluoride enhanced Coke or Pepsi product - for ignorance truly is bliss and you truly deserve what you get.
Mothers, if your little ones are having trouble concentrating at home or in school, or have been diagnosed as 'attention deficit' - perhaps you would be well advised to look for the culprit (and the solution to the problem) no further than your home medicine cabinet (your tube of toothpaste) and your friendly neighborhood school's water fountain!!

http://www.greaterthings.com/Lexicon/F/Fluoride.htm

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Originally Posted by Serpents_Den

Fluoride is the main ingredient in Rat Poison. So you are saying only children up to age six can absorb this poison and adults don't absorb this poison but reap the benefit to grind down their joints to get arthritis...LOL

AMAZING

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And water is the main component of sulphuric acid. Does that mean we should ban it?

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Originally Posted by AndrewGeibel

And water is the main component of sulphuric acid. Does that mean we should ban it?

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You have things back=words hence sulphuric acid is not the main ingredient in water. Read this article wholly before replying.


l http://www.greaterthings.com/Lexicon/F/Fluoride.htm
The Truth About 'Fluoride'
(or what every Mother should know)
by A. True Ott
tott@mountainwest.net
© August 2000
See also | Feedback
Fluoride used by Nazis to sterilize inmates and make them docile. Fluoride a key dumbing down ingredient of Prozac and Sarin nerve gas -- poisons of choice for tyrant rats.
First of all, it needs to be stated that the 'substance' referred to as 'Fluoride' is a misnomer - there is no such substance listed in the periodic chart of the elements, nor in the prestigious CRC handbook, nor in the sacred 'bible' of the pharmaceutical industry - the illustrious 'Merck Index'. Instead, we find a GAS called Fluorine - and from the use of this gas in various industries such as aluminum manufacturing and the nuclear industry -certain toxic byproducts are created which have 'captured' fluorine molecules. One such toxic, poisonous 'byproduct' is called sodium Fluoride - which according to the Merck Index is primarily used as rat and cockroach poison and is also the active ingredient in most toothpastes and as an "additive to drinking water". But sadly, there is much more to this sordid tale.
Did you know that sodium Fluoride is also one of the basic ingredients in both PROZAC (FLUoxetene Hydrochloride) and Sarin Nerve Gas (Isopropyl-Methyl-Phosphoryl FLUORIDE) - (Yes, folks the same Sarin Nerve Gas that terrorists released on a crowded Japanese subway train!). Let me repeat: the truth the American public needs to understand is the fact that Sodium Fluoride is nothing more (or less) than a hazardous waste by-product of the nuclear and aluminum industries. In addition to being the primary ingredient in rat and cockroach poisons, it is also a main ingredient in anesthetic, hypnotic, and psychiatric drugs as well as military NERVE GAS! Why, oh why then is it allowed to be added to the toothpastes and drinking water of the American people?
Historically, this substance was quite expensive for the worlds' premier chemical companies to dispose of - but in the 50's and 60's - Alcoa and the entire aluminum industry - with a vast overabundance of the toxic waste - SOMEHOW sold the FDA and our government on the insane (but highly profitable) idea of buying this poison at a 20,000% markup and then injecting it into our water supply as well as into the nation's toothpastes and dental rinse. Yes that's right folks, a 20,000% markup. Consider also that when sodium Fluoride is injected into our drinking water, its level is approximately 1 part-per-million (ppm), but since we only drink ½ of one percent of the total water supply, the hazardous chemical literally 'goes down the drain' and voila - the chemical industry has not only a free hazardous waste disposal system - but we have also PAID them handsomely in the process!!
Independent scientific evidence over the past 50 plus years has shown that sodium fluoride shortens our life span, promotes various cancers and mental disturbances, and most importantly, makes humans stupid, docile, and subservient, all in one neat little package. There is increasing evidence that aluminum in the brain is a causative factor in Alzheimer's Disease, and evidence points towards sodium fluoride's strong affinity to 'bond' with this dangerous aluminum (remember it is a byproduct of aluminum manufacturing) and also it has the ability to 'trick' the blood-brain barrier by imitating the hydrogen ion thus allowing this chemical access to brain tissue.
Honest scientists who have attempted to blow the whistle on sodium fluoride's mega-bucks propaganda campaign have consistently been given a large dose of professional 'black-listing' and thus their valid points disputing the current vested interests never have received the ink they deserve in the national press. Just follow the money to find the 'control' and you will find prominent American families to be prominent 'players' in the scandal. In 1952 a slick PR campaign rammed the concept of 'fluoridation' through our Public Health departments and various dental organizations. This slick campaign was more akin to a highly emotional "beer salesman convention" instead of the objective, scientifically researched program that it should have been. It has continued in the same vein right up to the present day - and now sodium fluoride use has now become 'usual and customary'.
To illustrate the emotional vs. the scientific nature of this issue, just look at the response given by people (perhaps yourself included?) when the subject of fluoridation comes up. You need to ask yourself, "Is this particular response based on EMOTIONS born of TRADITION, or is it truly unbiased and based instead on thoroughly researched objectivity?" There is a tremendous amount of emotional, highly unscientific "know-it-all" emotions attached to the topic of 'sodium fluoride' usage -but I personally have yet to find even ONE objective, double blind study that even remotely links sodium fluoride to healthy teeth at ANY AGE. Instead, I hear and read such blather as "9 out of 10 DENTISTS recommend 'fluoride' toothpaste" etc. etc. etc. Let me reiterate: truly independent (unattached to moneyed vested interest groups) scientists who've spent a large portion of their lives studying and working with this subject have been hit with a surprising amount of unfair character assassinations from strong vested-interest groups who reap grand profits from the public's ignorance as well as from their illnesses. (Just follow the money!)
Do you have diabetes and/or kidney disease? There are reportedly more than 11 million Americans with diabetes. If it is true that diabetics drink more liquids than other people, then according to the Physicians Desk Reference these 11 million people are at much higher risk drinking fluoridated water because they will receive a much deadlier dose because of their need for higher than normal water consumption. Kidney disease, by definition, lowers the efficiency of the kidneys, which of course is the primary means in which fluoride (or any other toxic chemical) is eliminated from the body. Does it not make sense that these people shouldn't drink fluoridated water at all? Cases are on record (Annapolis, Maryland, 1979) where ill kidney patients on dialysis machines died because they ingested relatively small amounts of SODIUM FLUORIDE from unwittingly drinking the 'fluoridated' city water supply? Will adequate warnings be given to people with weak kidneys, or will the real cause of such deaths be 'covered up' in the name of 'domestic tranquility'?
Concerning the 'practice' of putting sodium fluoride into drinking water, where did this insanity begin and WHO tried it first? From personal research, the very first occurrence of purposefully putting sodium fluoride into drinking water was in the German ghettos and in Nazi Germany's infamous prison camps. The Gestapo you see had little concern about sodium fluoride's 'supposed' effect on children's teeth; instead, their reason for mass-medicating water with sodium fluoride was to STERILIZE HUMANS and force the people in their concentration camps into calm, bovine, submission. (See for reference: "The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben" written by Joseph Borkin.) Kind of shocking isn't it folks!! Ah, but it gets even better.
The following letter was received by the Lee Foundation for Nutritional Research, Milwaukee Wisconsin, on 2 October 1954, from a research chemist by the name of Charles Perkins. He writes:
"I have your letter of September 29 asking for further documentation regarding a statement made in my book, "The Truth about Water Fluoridation", to the effect that the idea of water fluoridation was brought to England from Russia by the Russian Communist Kreminoff. In the 1930's Hitler and the German Nazis envisioned a world to be dominated and controlled by a Nazi philosophy of pan-Germanism. The German chemists worked out a very ingenious and far-reaching plan of mass-control which was submitted to and adopted by the German General Staff. This plan was to control the population in any given area through mass medication of drinking water supplies. By this method they could control the population in whole areas, reduce population by water medication that would produce sterility in women, and so on. In this scheme of mass-control, sodium fluoride occupied a prominent place.
"Repeated doses of infinitesimal amounts of fluoride will in time reduce an individual's power to resist domination, by slowly poisoning and narcotizing a certain area of the brain, thus making him submissive to the will of those who wish to govern him. [A convenient and cost-effective light lobotomy? --- Ott].
"The real reason behind water fluoridation is not to benefit children's teeth. If this were the real reason there are many ways in which it could be done that are much easier, cheaper, and far more effective. The real purpose behind water fluoridation is to reduce the resistance of the masses to domination and control and loss of liberty."
"When the Nazis under Hitler decided to go to Poland, both the German General Staff and the Russian General Staff exchanged scientific and military ideas, plans, and personnel, and the scheme of mass control through water medication was seized upon by the Russian Communists because it fitted ideally into their plans to communize the world."
"I was told of this entire scheme by a German chemist who was an official of the great I.G. Farben chemical industries and was also prominent in the Nazi movement at the time. I say this with all the earnestness and sincerity of a scientist who has spent nearly 20 years' research into the chemistry, biochemistry, physiology and pathology of fluorine --- any person who drinks artificially fluorinated water for a period of one year or more will never again be the same person mentally or physically."
Signed: CHARLES E. PERKINS, Chemist, 2 October, 1954.
Another letter needs to be quoted at length as well to help corroborate Mr. Perkin's testimony. This letter was written by a brilliant (and objectively honest) scientist named Dr. E.H. Bronner. Dr. Bronner was a nephew of the great Albert Einstein, served time in a WWII prison camp and wrote the following letter printed in the Catholic Mirror, Springfield, MA, January 1952:
"It appears that the citizens of Massachusetts are among the 'next' on the agenda of the water poisoners.
"There is a sinister network of subversive agents, Godless intellectual parasites, working in our country today whose ramifications grow more extensive, more successful and more alarming each new year and whose true objective is to demoralize, paralyze and destroy our great Republic ---- from within if they can, according to their plan --- for their own possession."
"The tragic success they have already attained in their long siege to destroy the moral fiber of American life is now one of their most potent footholds towards their own ultimate victory over us."
"Fluoridation of our community water systems can well become their most subtle weapon for our sure physical and mental deterioration. As a research chemist of established standing, I built within the past 22 years 3 American chemical plants and licensed 6 of my 53 patents. Based on my years of practical experience in the health food and chemical field, let me warn: fluoridation of drinking water is criminal insanity, sure national suicide. DON'T DO IT!!"
"Even in very small quantities, sodium fluoride is a deadly poison to which no effective antidote has been found. Every exterminator knows that it is the most effective rat-killer. Sodium Fluoride is entirely different from organic calcium-fluoro-phosphate needed by our bodies and provided by nature, in God's great providence and love, to build and strengthen our bones and our teeth. This organic calcium-fluoro-phosphate, derived from proper foods, is an edible organic salt, insoluble in water and assimilable by the human body; whereas the non-organic sodium fluoride used in fluoridating water is instant poison to the body and fully water soluble. The body refuses to assimilate it."
"Careful, bonafide laboratory experimentation by conscientious, patriotic research chemists, and actual medical experience, have both revealed that instead of preserving or promoting 'dental health', fluoridated drinking water destroys teeth before adulthood and after, by the destructive mottling and other pathological conditions it actually causes in them, and also creates many other very grave pathological conditions in the internal organisms of bodies consuming it. How then can it be called a 'health plan'? What's behind it?"
"That any so-called 'Doctors' would persuade a civilized nation to add voluntarily a deadly poison to its drinking water systems is unbelievable. It is the height of criminal insanity!"
"No wonder Hitler and Stalin fully believed and agreed from 1939 to 1941 that, quoting from both Lenin's 'Last Will' and Hitler's Mein Kampf: "America we shall demoralize, divide, and destroy from within."
"Are our Civil Defense organizations and agencies awake to the perils of water poisoning by fluoridation? Its use has been recorded in other countries. Sodium Fluoride water solutions are the cheapest and most effective rat killers known to chemists: colorless, odorless, tasteless; no antidote, no remedy, no hope: Instant and complete extermination of rats."
"Fluoridation of water systems can be slow national suicide, or quick national liquidation. It is criminal insanity ------- treason!!"
Signed: Dr. E.H. Bronner, Research Chemist, Los Angeles
Apparently, the public outcry by Dr. Bronner and others precluded the fluoridation of public water systems for a season - but soon thereafter, the Food and Drug Administration allowed this deadly poison to be put in 'toothpaste', and our dentists were systematically brainwashed into providing 'fluoride treatments' to their many patients. Of course, today many major metropolitan areas have a minimum of 1 parts per million sodium fluoride systematically added to their water supply and more areas are seeking to add this poison every year. Add to this the fact that bottling companies (soft drinks, juices, etc.) use fluoridated water to make their products - is it any wonder that people can no longer think clearly and ask pertinent questions of their elected and ecclesiastical leaders? Is it also a mystery why so many top Nazi mind control scientists were brought to America by the CIA and their infamous 'Operation Paper Clip'?
If you believe all of this is 'just a coincidence' - go ahead and keep brushing your teeth with your 'fluoride' toothpaste and sucking on your sodium fluoride enhanced Coke or Pepsi product - for ignorance truly is bliss and you truly deserve what you get.
Mothers, if your little ones are having trouble concentrating at home or in school, or have been diagnosed as 'attention deficit' - perhaps you would be well advised to look for the culprit (and the solution to the problem) no further than your home medicine cabinet (your tube of toothpaste) and your friendly neighborhood school's water fountain!!

http://www.greaterthings.com/Lexicon/F/Fluoride.htm

I'm not denying that jets put out contrails. I've never really cared about "chem-trails" very much, but now my interest is peaked. I didn't see any 100% fact proof in these, but it's interesting reading for skeptics like myself.

Rep. Kucinich's HR 2977
Names Chemtrails As
An 'Exotic Weapon'
By Lorie Kramer
seektress@ev1.net
1-10-2

After years of denial from government, military, and environmental agencies, the reality of the controversial issue regarding the covert programs known as Chemtrails has been acknowledged.

On October 2, 2001 Congressman Dennis Kucinich, Ohio introduced H. R. 2977 during the 1st Session of the 107th Congress of the United States. The "Space Preservation Act of 2001" seeks to "preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benfit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the President to take action and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons."

In the bill Chemtrails are listed as an "exotic weapons system". Ironically in Section 7 - Definitions. The complete text of the bill may be found at Clifford Carnicom's website, "Chemtrail Crimes and Coverup Documented".

The bill also addresses such things as particle beams, electromagnetic radiation, plasma, or extremely low frequency (ELF) or ultra low frequency (ULF) energy radiation, and mind-control as weapons. All of these areas have been researched and pondered by those investigating chemtrails and working to gain accountability for those programs.

They can't have it both ways. Water vapor is not a weapon.

This is a call to all those of conscience. This is a time when action is needed. It is time. The lies have gone on long enough. We can tell the Air Force and the Navy and the other agencies involved in this criminal activity, "No, You may NOT own the Weather ...Period!" We may not have another chance.

On behalf of the members of Chemtrail Tracking USA, Clifford Carnicom's Board, Chemtrail Central and the many other groups and individuals working diligently to get accountability, we urge your listeners to respond. Contact government and media, demand answers. If not now, when?

We know what we see. We did not consent. We want it stopped.

To see text of HR 2977:
http://www.carnicom.com/hr2977.htm


Rep. Kucinich's Bill is also listed at this US Government site:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...c107h.lst:2901


Note regarding particulars of HR 2977 -

The 'Space Preservation Act of 2001' deals mainly with space as defined by ALTITUDE. Granted, we don't receive reports of chemtrails or contrails in space.

The bill states "SEC. 7. DEFINITIONS. In this Act:

(1) The term 'space' means all space extending upward from an altitude greater than 60 kilometers above the surface of the earth and any celestial body in such space."

However, in Section 7, 2 (C) it states.

"The term 'exotic weapons systems' includes weapons designed to damage space or NATURAL ECOSYSTEMS (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or CLIMATE, WEATHER, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space." (emphasis added.)

This would definately include the altitude at which chemtrails are found.

In addition, in Section 7 - Definitions, it is stated in (2)(A) "The terms 'weapon' and 'weapons system' mean a device capable of any of the following: (ii) Inflicting death or injury on, or damaging or destroying, a person (or the biological life, bodily health, mental health, or physical and economic well-being of a person)--(III) by expelling chemical or biological agents in the vicinity of a person."

Here, of course, the word "vicinity" would need further definition. But chemtrails fit the bill (pun intended) as a weapons program that is threatening the biological life, bodily health, mental health, and the physical and economic well-being of millions of people.

HR 2977 has a lot to be desired as a bill in relation to chemtrails. This in no way negates the fact that chemtrails have been named as an exotic weapon in a congressional document.

For battle weary chemtrail researchers and activists, this is very important. Whether Rep. Kucinich intended it or not, he has handed us the can opener to the biggest can of worms he has probably ever seen. We intend, with our flags in hand, and as loud a voice as can be collectively gathered, to open the can. -LK


Army Aerial Spraying Tests Panic, Anger Florida Keys Residents
http://www.rense.com/general24/we.htm

US admits chemical weapons tests BBC 10/10/02 Original Link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2315081.stm

Of Microbes and Mock Attacks - 51 Years Ago, The Military Sprayed Germs on U.S. Cities
http://www.rense.com/general15/ofmicrobesandmock.htm

Military Said Behind Up To Four Different Chemtrail Programs
http://www.rense.com/general11/chmmill.htm

Also see:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez More..?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15082100&query_hl=2

Finally, PUBLIC LAW 95-79 [P.L. 95-79] TITLE 50, CHAPTER 32, SECTION 1520 "CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WARFARE PROGRAM" "The use of human subjects will be allowed for the testing of chemical and biological agents by the U.S. Department of Defense, accounting to Congressional committees with respect to the experiments and studies." "The Secretary of Defense [may] conduct tests and experiments involving the use of chemical and biological [warfare] agents on civilian populations [within the United States]." -SOURCE- Public Law 95-79, Title VIII, Sec. 808, July 30, 1977, 91 Stat. 334. In U.S. Statutes-at-Large, Vol. 91, page 334, you will find Public Law 95-79. Public Law 97-375, title II, Sec. 203(a)(1), Dec. 21, 1982, 96 Stat. 1882. In U.S. Statutes-at-Large, Vol. 96, page 1882, you will find Public Law 97-375

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f27_1199846714&p=1

I'm very unlikely to take the words from a conspiracy theory as holding any truth.

The thing with conspiracy theories and their explanations, is they make sense to uneducated or gullible people, their most often targeted audience.

Chlorine/Chloride: chlorine which is used in the production plastics and chemicals. Chlorine, deadly gas.

Sodium, a metal that reacts violently with water. Important in the chemical, petro and textile industries.

Put them together and...

NaCl!

Sodium Chloride is also known as table salt. A necessary compound for life on this earth.

Quite literally, ALL minerals and elements are by themselves quite a bit different, but once through a chemical reaction, can be very helpful or life sustaining.

So color me skeptical when folks try to use simply misleading "facts" and applying them incorrectly. :rolleyes:

Connie,

Did you even read the post above yours that PythonWallace posted? Is it still a conspiracy when the government admits it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I'm very unlikely to take the words from a conspiracy theory as holding any truth.

The thing with conspiracy theories and their explanations, is they make sense to uneducated or gullible people, their most often targeted audience.

---

Luckily you are above the rest of us. So you get your disInformation from 'credible' sources like the library of congress:gj: :

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.R.2977.IH:

this is the Space Preservation Act of 2001 HR 2977 IH

Asking for the banning of 'exotic weapons' such as Chemtrails. You'd have to do a little bit more research on your own if you'd like to see the article on the FAA workers admitting to the use of chemtrails and the differnce between Chemtrails and Contrails.

..Happy Trails! :salute:

Edit: Just saw what Python Wallace posted. Sorry for the repost, carry on :)

with love.

There have been many o called conspiracy theories that are no longer a conspiracy but truth. Research 911 and watch 911 The Ripple Effect or Loose Change Final Cut on Google.

Kinda makes you wonder about the latest H1N1 flu outbreak.


Not just one flu but made up of 3 components.
Swine Flu
Avian Flu
Human Flu

No one can seem to pinpoint it's origin but the swine flu part of it is a match to what was found in the U.S. in 1998.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SPJ

Kinda makes you wonder about the latest H1N1 flu outbreak.


Not just one flu but made up of 3 components.
Swine Flu
Avian Flu
Human Flu

No one can seem to pinpoint it's origin but the swine flu part of it is a match to what was found in the U.S. in 1998.

---

Here's an interesting commercial from 1976 unfortunately people that were duped into taking a vaccine got the swine flu/

YouTube - 1976 Swine Flu Propaganda

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I'm very unlikely to take the words from a conspiracy theory as holding any truth.

The thing with conspiracy theories and their explanations, is they make sense to uneducated or gullible people, their most often targeted audience.

---

I wish I had known that I was too smart and too educated to consider believing any possibility of any conspiracy theory, being that I'm college educated, having graduated H.S. a full year before my class, and having an I.Q. of 157. I was under the impression that Fox and MSNBC were the providers of propaganda aimed at the ignorant and gullible.

Here is another admission from the MP and MoD in Britain about the employment of chemtrails for four decades. I think they were just contrails, but I can't prove it yet.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...398507,00.html

Quote:

---

Millions were in germ war tests
Much of Britain was exposed to bacteria sprayed in secret trials
Antony Barnett, public affairs editor
Observer

Sunday April 21, 2002

The Ministry of Defence turned large parts of the country into a giant laboratory to conduct a series of secret germ warfare tests on the public.

A government report just released provides for the first time a comprehensive official history of Britain's biological weapons trials between 1940 and 1979.

Many of these tests involved releasing potentially dangerous chemicals and micro-organisms over vast swaths of the population without the public being told.

While details of some secret trials have emerged in recent years, the 60-page report reveals new information about more than 100 covert experiments.

The report reveals that military personnel were briefed to tell any 'inquisitive inquirer' the trials were part of research projects into weather and air pollution.

The tests, carried out by government scientists at Porton Down, were designed to help the MoD assess Britain's vulnerability if the Russians were to have released clouds of deadly germs over the country.

In most cases, the trials did not use biological weapons but alternatives which scientists believed would mimic germ warfare and which the MoD claimed were harmless. But families in certain areas of the country who have children with birth defects are demanding a public inquiry.

One chapter of the report, 'The Fluorescent Particle Trials', reveals how between 1955 and 1963 planes flew from north-east England to the tip of Cornwall along the south and west coasts, dropping huge amounts of zinc cadmium sulphide on the population. The chemical drifted miles inland, its fluorescence allowing the spread to be monitored. In another trial using zinc cadmium sulphide, a generator was towed along a road near Frome in Somerset where it spewed the chemical for an hour.

While the Government has insisted the chemical is safe, cadmium is recognised as a cause of lung cancer and during the Second World War was considered by the Allies as a chemical weapon.

In another chapter, 'Large Area Coverage Trials', the MoD describes how between 1961 and 1968 more than a million people along the south coast of England, from Torquay to the New Forest, were exposed to bacteria including e.coli and bacillus globigii , which mimics anthrax. These releases came from a military ship, the Icewhale, anchored off the Dorset coast, which sprayed the micro-organisms in a five to 10-mile radius.

The report also reveals details of the DICE trials in south Dorset between 1971 and 1975. These involved US and UK military scientists spraying into the air massive quantities of serratia marcescens bacteria, with an anthrax simulant and phenol.

Similar bacteria were released in 'The Sabotage Trials' between 1952 and 1964. These were tests to determine the vulnerability of large government buildings and public transport to attack. In 1956 bacteria were released on the London Underground at lunchtime along the Northern Line between Colliers Wood and Tooting Broadway. The results show that the organism dispersed about 10 miles. Similar tests were conducted in tunnels running under government buildings in Whitehall.

Experiments conducted between 1964 and 1973 involved attaching germs to the threads of spiders' webs in boxes to test how the germs would survive in different environments. These tests were carried out in a dozen locations across the country, including London's West End, Southampton and Swindon. The report also gives details of more than a dozen smaller field trials between 1968 and 1977.

In recent years, the MoD has commissioned two scientists to review the safety of these tests. Both reported that there was no risk to public health, although one suggested the elderly or people suffering from breathing illnesses may have been seriously harmed if they inhaled sufficient quantities of micro-organisms.

However, some families in areas which bore the brunt of the secret tests are convinced the experiments have led to their children suffering birth defects, physical handicaps and learning difficulties.

David Orman, an army officer from Bournemouth, is demanding a public inquiry. His wife, Janette, was born in East Lulworth in Dorset, close to where many of the trials took place. She had a miscarriage, then gave birth to a son with cerebral palsy. Janette's three sisters, also born in the village while the tests were being carried out, have also given birth to children with unexplained problems, as have a number of their neighbours.

The local health authority has denied there is a cluster, but Orman believes otherwise. He said: 'I am convinced something terrible has happened. The village was a close-knit community and to have so many birth defects over such a short space of time has to be more than coincidence.'

Successive governments have tried to keep details of the germ warfare tests secret. While reports of a number of the trials have emerged over the years through the Public Records Office, this latest MoD document - which was released to Liberal Democrat MP Norman Baker - gives the fullest official version of the biological warfare trials yet.

Baker said: 'I welcome the fact that the Government has finally released this information, but question why it has taken so long. It is unacceptable that the public were treated as guinea pigs without their knowledge, and I want to be sure that the Ministry of Defence's claims that these chemicals and bacteria used were safe is true.'

The MoD report traces the history of the UK's research into germ warfare since the Second World War when Porton Down produced five million cattle cakes filled with deadly anthrax spores which would have been dropped in Germany to kill their livestock. It also gives details of the infamous anthrax experiments on Gruinard on the Scottish coast which left the island so contaminated it could not be inhabited until the late 1980s.

The report also confirms the use of anthrax and other deadly germs on tests aboard ships in the Caribbean and off the Scottish coast during the 1950s. The document states: 'Tacit approval for simulant trials where the public might be exposed was strongly influenced by defence security considerations aimed obviously at restricting public knowledge. An important corollary to this was the need to avoid public alarm and disquiet about the vulnerability of the civil population to BW [biological warfare] attack.'

Sue Ellison, spokeswoman for Porton Down, said: 'Independent reports by eminent scientists have shown there was no danger to public health from these releases which were carried out to protect the public.

'The results from these trials_ will save lives, should the country or our forces face an attack by chemical and biological weapons.'

Asked whether such tests are still being carried out, she said: 'It is not our policy to discuss ongoing research.'

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I'm very unlikely to take the words from a conspiracy theory as holding any truth.

The thing with conspiracy theories and their explanations, is they make sense to uneducated or gullible people, their most often targeted audience.


Put them together and...

---

post looks better like this. what DO you get when conspiracy hits the so-called educated?

if you think that what the media blasts you with as fact and the only truth, you are indeed blind. Conspiracy theories don't come from morons, and the foil hat remark is one used by others to encourage stupidity and blind following. it's not "cool" to believe in conspiracy theories, so they must all be wrong!!! yeah, that's it!!!!

let me ask you this. how is it that a man (bin laden) can have less than six months to live, yet still be making threatening videos years later? the man was on dialysis for crying out loud!!! laden is dead, 911 was a sham, and most like you bought it hook, line and sinker.

conspiracy isn't conspiracy if they REALLY ARE out to get you ;)

Even though I think Alex Jones is a whack job, I always thought this clip was interesting, being that it was made just six weeks before 9/11/01.

YouTube - Alex Jones Warns of 9/11

Alex Jones didn't predict 911 he got his information from the late William "Bill" Cooper.

YouTube - Bill Cooper on 911

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by N4S

Does anyone believe this is true?

Basically it is supposably done the most in the United States.

It's the government releasing chemicals by way of airplane over the nation to control population.

How is this done?

They are supposed to be chemicals that create cancer and other diseases over time.

Read this - http://educate-yourself.org/ct/

---

Yeah the gov is responsible for AIDS also. You should watch the Zeitgeist series. Very interesting. You can find it on youtube.

The masses would be very upset if they only knew how sinister the puppet masters are and what plans they have for all the sheeple.
What is even better than Zeitgeist is Esoteric Agenda which you can mind it in full on Google or my Myspace Blog.

i love the "prove it" argument. how about "prove it", show that it IS a conspiracy. if that's the case, there should be plenty of incontrovertible evidence leading to the exposure of these frauds and scams we lovingly call, "conspiracy".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Serpents_Den

Alex Jones didn't predict 911 he got his information from the late William "Bill" Cooper.

---

He pieced together the forthcoming of 9/11 by a trend in news stories and government warnings in months leading up to the attacks, as did William Cooper and several other people. They were hardly prophetic predictions, just common sense understanding and keeping up with news stories put out by the main stream media.

I've been trying very hard to not include myself in these kinds of threads, since I know the large majority of opinions on these subjects here agree that anyone who wastes any of his time looking into such rubbish is an ignorant fool, and I'd like to not be looked at as such, but I just can't seem to help it. :)

So here are a few other intelligent and patriotic Americans who also failed to neglect the possibility of conspiracies.

Dwight Eisenhower warning of the impending military industrial complex:
YouTube - Eisenhower warns us of the military industrial complex.

John F. Kennedy on Secret Societies and the press:
YouTube - JFK-Secret societies PT1 - Unedited - Pt. 1
YouTube - JFK-Secret societies PT2 - Unedited - Pt. 2

John F. Kennedy on world conspiracy and secret societies:
YouTube - JFK REVEALS SKULL AND BONES SOCIETY- Zeitgeist - NWO

George W. and John Kerry on secret society:
YouTube - George Bush and John Kerry Skull and Bones members

Various founding fathers on the Federal Reserve:
YouTube - FEDERAL RESERVE - AMERICA'S GREATEST ROBBERY pt 1 - Pt. 1
YouTube - FEDERAL RESERVE - AMERICA'S GREATEST ROBBERY pt 2 - Pt. 2
YouTube - FEDERAL RESERVE - AMERICA'S GREATEST ROBBERY pt 3 - Pt. 3
YouTube - FEDERAL RESERVE - AMERICA'S GREATEST ROBBERY pt 4 - Pt. 4

Wikipedia entries on the factual existence, and eventual banishment in most of Europe, of the Bavarian Illuminati and their secret agendas, the Thule Society and Nazi affiliation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Weishaupt

Mike Ruppert, former LAPD drug detective, Celerino Castillo III, former DEA Agent, Fox News, etc. eye witness reports of CIA conspiracies to import cocaine and heroin to the U.S. - Great movie:
YouTube - American Drug War: The Last White Hope: Pre Release Cut

Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Jackson on a Federal bank:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo30.html

What fools and traitors these jerks were.

I have to agree with you, once you start seeing the truth it's almost impossible not to want to learn more.

Could you imagine if everyone learned the TRUTH behind our history and what holds for our future? People should turn off there TV and seek alternative means of getting their news.

Rumor has it the Internet may come down thanks to Jay Rockefeller. I'm already noticing Google and YouTube searches are being censored. Pretty soon people will have to live with the lies they been taught.

YouTube - Jay Rockefeller "Internet should have never been invented"

LOL, you people crack me up! Wallace, take it a little more personally, your almost there. :rolleyes:

A cult will have all of their questions and answers planned out to the "outsiders". So whenever ANYONE questions the cult, they have the answer that makes complete sense!!!! (or does it??)

Same thing for conspiracy theories.

You can post "facts" and videos (as credible as they are :rolleyes:) all day, except it doesn't matter what anyone says to question it, because you always have an answer that "seems" to make sense, but doesn't when the issue is pushed.

That's why conspiracy theories are so dang popular! They "make" sense to someone who doesn't know better!!!

OMG, there I go again NOT believing the news stories and you tube videos!

And the Zeitgeist movies are a load!

It's one thing to have an open mind, but it's another to believe everything that sounds true, in spite of irrefutable (or damn good) evidence to the latter.

There simply is no point arguing with folks who believe this stuff. No matter what any one says different, the believers are always going to say it's fake or falsified, or a cover up. Which in itself is impossible to prove (or disprove) to the "believers", so here we are in a stale mate.



Oh, and one more thing, just because the Gov lied about one thing, does not make every other conspiracy theory "true".

Each theory should be based on it's own merits, and not be influenced by other situations being proved true or false.

As in : The government admitted to lying to "this"... So THIS theory MUST be true about THAT!! (Even if it's completely unrelated)

Sorry guys, NOT buying it.

But carry on, post away with some more Youtube vids. :cool:

I like checking this thread every so often just to see what more "evidence" you guys throw at me.

do you ever check the "evidence"?

:p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

do you ever check the "evidence"?

:p

---

But therein lies the problem. The evidence I read is at odds with their's. Back to square one I'd be. :P

I've read some stupid crap in my time, but good god. :rolleyes:
If you don't know what a contrail is, go back to grade school and take a 6th grade science class.
I served in the Air Force for 8 years working on several jet platforms, contrails can last seconds or hours depending on conditions.

Where would we be without the internet, how would idiots spew stupid BS to other idiots so easily without it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PythonWallace

I'm not denying that jets put out contrails. I've never really cared about "chem-trails" very much, but now my interest is peaked. I didn't see any 100% fact proof in these, but it's interesting reading for skeptics like myself.

Rep. Kucinich's HR 2977
Names Chemtrails As
An 'Exotic Weapon'
By Lorie Kramer
seektress@ev1.net
1-10-2

After years of denial from government, military, and environmental agencies, the reality of the controversial issue regarding the covert programs known as Chemtrails has been acknowledged.

On October 2, 2001 Congressman Dennis Kucinich, Ohio introduced H. R. 2977 during the 1st Session of the 107th Congress of the United States. The "Space Preservation Act of 2001" seeks to "preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benfit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the President to take action and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons."

In the bill Chemtrails are listed as an "exotic weapons system". Ironically in Section 7 - Definitions. The complete text of the bill may be found at Clifford Carnicom's website, "Chemtrail Crimes and Coverup Documented".

The bill also addresses such things as particle beams, electromagnetic radiation, plasma, or extremely low frequency (ELF) or ultra low frequency (ULF) energy radiation, and mind-control as weapons. All of these areas have been researched and pondered by those investigating chemtrails and working to gain accountability for those programs.

They can't have it both ways. Water vapor is not a weapon.

This is a call to all those of conscience. This is a time when action is needed. It is time. The lies have gone on long enough. We can tell the Air Force and the Navy and the other agencies involved in this criminal activity, "No, You may NOT own the Weather ...Period!" We may not have another chance.

On behalf of the members of Chemtrail Tracking USA, Clifford Carnicom's Board, Chemtrail Central and the many other groups and individuals working diligently to get accountability, we urge your listeners to respond. Contact government and media, demand answers. If not now, when?

We know what we see. We did not consent. We want it stopped.

To see text of HR 2977:
http://www.carnicom.com/hr2977.htm


Rep. Kucinich's Bill is also listed at this US Government site:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...c107h.lst:2901


Note regarding particulars of HR 2977 -

The 'Space Preservation Act of 2001' deals mainly with space as defined by ALTITUDE. Granted, we don't receive reports of chemtrails or contrails in space.

The bill states "SEC. 7. DEFINITIONS. In this Act:

(1) The term 'space' means all space extending upward from an altitude greater than 60 kilometers above the surface of the earth and any celestial body in such space."

However, in Section 7, 2 (C) it states.

"The term 'exotic weapons systems' includes weapons designed to damage space or NATURAL ECOSYSTEMS (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or CLIMATE, WEATHER, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space." (emphasis added.)

This would definately include the altitude at which chemtrails are found.

In addition, in Section 7 - Definitions, it is stated in (2)(A) "The terms 'weapon' and 'weapons system' mean a device capable of any of the following: (ii) Inflicting death or injury on, or damaging or destroying, a person (or the biological life, bodily health, mental health, or physical and economic well-being of a person)--(III) by expelling chemical or biological agents in the vicinity of a person."

Here, of course, the word "vicinity" would need further definition. But chemtrails fit the bill (pun intended) as a weapons program that is threatening the biological life, bodily health, mental health, and the physical and economic well-being of millions of people.

HR 2977 has a lot to be desired as a bill in relation to chemtrails. This in no way negates the fact that chemtrails have been named as an exotic weapon in a congressional document.

For battle weary chemtrail researchers and activists, this is very important. Whether Rep. Kucinich intended it or not, he has handed us the can opener to the biggest can of worms he has probably ever seen. We intend, with our flags in hand, and as loud a voice as can be collectively gathered, to open the can. -LK


Army Aerial Spraying Tests Panic, Anger Florida Keys Residents
http://www.rense.com/general24/we.htm

US admits chemical weapons tests BBC 10/10/02 Original Link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2315081.stm

Of Microbes and Mock Attacks - 51 Years Ago, The Military Sprayed Germs on U.S. Cities
http://www.rense.com/general15/ofmicrobesandmock.htm

Military Said Behind Up To Four Different Chemtrail Programs
http://www.rense.com/general11/chmmill.htm

Also see:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez More..?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15082100&query_hl=2

Finally, PUBLIC LAW 95-79 [P.L. 95-79] TITLE 50, CHAPTER 32, SECTION 1520 "CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WARFARE PROGRAM" "The use of human subjects will be allowed for the testing of chemical and biological agents by the U.S. Department of Defense, accounting to Congressional committees with respect to the experiments and studies." "The Secretary of Defense [may] conduct tests and experiments involving the use of chemical and biological [warfare] agents on civilian populations [within the United States]." -SOURCE- Public Law 95-79, Title VIII, Sec. 808, July 30, 1977, 91 Stat. 334. In U.S. Statutes-at-Large, Vol. 91, page 334, you will find Public Law 95-79. Public Law 97-375, title II, Sec. 203(a)(1), Dec. 21, 1982, 96 Stat. 1882. In U.S. Statutes-at-Large, Vol. 96, page 1882, you will find Public Law 97-375

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f27_1199846714&p=1

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http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gullable

Being ignorant is not so much a shame as being unwilling to learn.
Benjamin Franklin -

What's currently being debated or debunked here?

Jets create contrails. - √ - I didn't think this was ever challenged here

All trails left by planes are contrails. - X - Does any one have any documents showing this to be a fact, or will anyone challenge the authenticity of the Miami Herald, Washington Post or BBC articles I posted that claim chem trails are real and have admittedly been used in the past?

The trails and tic-tac-toe patterns regularly seen all over are contrails. - X - This is open for reasonable debate.

Contrails can take anywhere from a few seconds to several hours to dissipate, depending on environmental conditions. - X - This is up for reasonable debate. I'd like to see some data for this one. From my own experience, the contrails created by jets at local air shows all seem to dissipate within a minute or so, no matter what year it is. The planes I see over Joliet always leave trails that seem to last for hours, no matter what day it is. Can this difference in contrails be explained by variables other than environmental factors?

I'm sure everyone here did stupendously in their high school debate clubs, but when I'm involved in a discussion, name calling and using the argument that "if you think differently than I do you are stupid", does not count as debate. I think I did an okay job of finding credible sources to make an argument for the existence of chem trails, so does anyone of you care to post anything other than childish opinions of character?

You are all so sure of your sides that I'm sure you can scrounge up some evidence. I'll just check back later. Since name calling is no longer an acceptable argument, I suspect that I'll only find tumbleweed blowing around when I come back. But I hope I don't. I'd like to satisfy my own curiosity here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

Contrails can take anywhere from a few seconds to several hours to dissipate, depending on environmental conditions. - X - This is up for reasonable debate. I'd like to see some data for this one. From my own experience, the contrails created by jets at local air shows all seem to dissipate within a minute or so, no matter what year it is. The planes I see over Joliet always leave trails that seem to last for hours, no matter what day it is. Can this difference in contrails be explained by variables other than environmental factors?

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Can't give you any "official" data for this one, but I can say that I've lived a few miles from the MBS Airport here in Michigan for 2 years now. The contrails from the jets over here do last for hours, and have for as long as I can remember when I was living 30 miles away also -- back into the mid-80's.

Planes don't fly at 35,000 feet during air shows. Heck they don't even fly at 5,000 feet.

What is the point of giving studies, when the first answer is cover up?

Contrails resemble cirrus clouds, which, are made up of ice crystals, and persist for many hours at high altitudes.

Why should I then believe that ALL contrails MUST dissipate within a few moments? That makes no sense whatsoever.

If any one has taken a science class, generally it is taught about the different kinds of clouds and formations clouds can take.

Cirrus clouds (or sometimes called mare tails) are just as persistent and long lasting as contrails in the same conditions.

The atmosphere is not one big medium of consistency, in fact it is constantly churning, turning. Jet streams, rising hot air, cold fronts, all atmospheric conditions have an effect on moisture condensation in the air.

If someone wants to read an easy to read, normal down to earth logical article, I suggest starting here.
http://www.iangoddard.com/contrail.htm

I again do not understand why asking for evidence against a conspiracy theory is worth any time. Because quite consistently it will be labeled as a cover up. :weirdface

I fail to see how anything can go through a jet engine burning at thousands of degrees and still be intact coming out the other end.

Thanks for being the first person to actually post something worth reading. I think I had already read that one, and it seems like an objective article. So now we agree that chem trails do exist, and that they have at the least, been used in the past, over U.S. cities. Correct?

The main argument here so far has been that there is no such thing as chem trails, even after I posted main stream articles to the contrary. Since I thought that that was the argument, I was looking for things along the lines of official denial of the existence of chem trails, or libel cases charging investigative journalists, news outlets, websites or government personnel with publishing false claims. Basically anything at all, since I took the time to look for articles that document the use of aerosol spraying over the U.S. population using planes, and all I've seen in return was sheep-like responses, with no real debate.

http://www.jwexotics.com/monkey.jpg

You keep calling the existence of chem trails a conspiracy theory, and refusing to post any data you might have because it will just be blindlessly discredited as a cover up, yet I posted sources that changed the opinion from theory to legitimate, and I have yet to blindly discredit something here. If you've noticed, I refuse to use shady or subjective articles or sources here. I'm a pretty smart guy, and I have nothing to gain by discrediting anybody without reasonable contrary information. I also never made any claims, and only asked questions and posted some info for debate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jenn

I fail to see how anything can go through a jet engine burning at thousands of degrees and still be intact coming out the other end.

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Thanks for that data. To play devil's advocate, how hot do you have to heat barium before it goes through a chemical change that creates nothing other than benign byproducts?

And for the record, I'm not denying that there are thousands of planes that in fact do not contain any aerosol spraying devices, and that there are likely a few people here who have piloted such planes. The argument that since some planes exist that aren't equipped with chemical delivery systems is as valid of an argument as saying that it is impossible for there to be corn in vomit, since you and people you know have thrown up for years with no corn being present. If one of those people eats some corn on a puke day, that will change. I promise. ;)

Do i think scientists are doing testing with some of the theories on this stuff out there? sure... why not? Im far more interested in dark matter though....

Do i think that the trails you see when a plane is at 25-30K feet are "Chem trails"? Nope!!! LOL

The amount of supporting data in these replies is overwhelming! I think it will take me a few days to read through so many documents. Maybe I'll just agree to believe that the government would never do anything that wasn't in the public's best interest, so I too can feel safe and get a good night's sleep. I just need to call my local Hair Cuttery to make sure they are able to shear wool. You guys crack me up. If you are convinced that chem trails are a bogus conspiracy theory, and you can't find anything relevant to add, and even the mention of something as ridiculous as chem trails makes you mad, maybe you could just avoid clicking on the threads called "CHEMTRAILS"? But I'd still like to see a rebuttal to the articles I posted. I've done some searching, but I can't find anything, either, other than the denial of their existence altogether, which the articles clearly say is false.

LOL, You can keep up with the antagonizing Wallace, however, the link I posted to does not say "CHEM" trails exist, rather quite the opposite. That they are simply condensation and perhaps exhaust, and I 100% agree with the article, and numerous other dubunkings of the CHEMtrail conspiracy theories.

Even on that link, he has links to many other sites debunking the myth, but as I forsaw, you "read" them, but don't believe them. Proved my point didn't I? :rolleyes:

I have yet to see hard proof they do exist! Most have been debunked or are pure speculation...

On the same note, you keep mentioning that weather control is proof that chemtrails exist.

That is not at all true. Your "chemtrails" are purposely released all over the globe for some population control or other adverse effect on mankind.

It's true countries have tried weather control. China just attempted to stop rain during the Olympics. This is not debated, but it is not and should not be confused with the latter and more paranoid theory that it is actually chemicals being sprayed on humans to control them or whatever weird theory is out there.


So no, I will never admit that "CHEMtrails" exist as you define them. Weather manipulation? I'm sure there are vain enough men out there trying it (Hey, maybe China actually made it work?), but let's leave it at that.

Why don't you google or search for "Chemtrail debunkers" and make up your own mind. Why poke and prod us, who don't really care what you think about this, into persuading you that they don't. Only you can make up your mind, and it obviously has already been made.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I have yet to see hard proof they do exist! Most have been debunked or are pure speculation...

Quote:

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Army Aerial Spraying Tests Panic,
Anger Florida Keys Residents
By Jennifer Babson
Miami Herald Miami.com
4-22-2

BOCA CHICA KEY - They worry about allergies and immune system difficulties and ailments yet to be diagnosed.

A few bolted for points north; others shuttered windows and stayed inside.

Word that the U.S. Army was conducting biological and chemical detection tests off Key West last week -- using a crop duster to spray what it says are benign substances over a small swath of the Gulf -- set alarm bells ringing for some on this island chain.

''Monday I had my house closed up all day and the air conditioner running because I was concerned and I couldn't find out what was going on. The newspaper didn't say exactly where they were dropping,'' said Bill Eardley, a retiree who lives on Sugarloaf Key. "If I had known in advance, and I was concerned, I would have jumped in a car or plane and gotten out of here.''

Using a small plane to release egg white powder, clay dust, ethanol, irradiated vegetable spores and a chemical compound commonly found in drugstore cosmetics -- all designed to simulate more ominous compounds -- Army and Environmental Protection Agency researchers were trying to determine whether civilian Doppler and drug interdiction radars can tell the difference between a raincloud carrying moisture and a cloud carrying something more ominous.

The experiments -- concluded last week -- were deemed a success, though the Army still says it needs to conduct an additional $15 million to $20 million worth of testing in the U.S.

Researchers are hoping software could be attached to civilian radars like those used by the National Weather Service to alert military and civilian authorities to unusual chemical or biological events or attacks.

But some locals greeted the tests themselves as a kind of preliminary attack.

''The weirdest thing I heard from a couple of people was that spores can travel 1,300 miles. They said that there was a spore release in Texas that arrived in Florida,'' said Mickey Morales, an Army spokesman who was on hand for the drill. ``Some people have told me they have left the area or they have recommended to people that they leave the area.''

It probably didn't help matters locally that the Pentagon went public with details of the tests less than a week before they began.

AN EXPOSE

A few days earlier, a free Key West newspaper carried a front-page exposé on suspicious, Keys-photographed contrails that sources -- including an unnamed wife of a Navy service member -- insisted were actually ''chemtrails'' that could be the results of secret military experiments.

Some worried residents contacted the Army, the media, municipal officials, the EPA and U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson with their concerns -- prompting Nelson's Washington office to inquire about the nature of the tests, Morales said.

Last week, it was Morales' job to make the words ''military experiment'' seem palatable.

It was a challenge in some quarters.

''A lot of people have claimed they have read X, Y, and Z on the Internet,'' Morales said. ``Somebody called me on his cell phone and wanted to know if it was OK to go boating.''

Liz Holloway's neighbor on Sugarloaf Key ''evacuated'' to a place north of the Everglades when she heard the tests were imminent.

''She has chronic fatigue syndrome and thought it might exacerbate her condition,'' Holloway said. ``Am I worried I am going to get sick 15 years >from now? Maybe. But who knows?''

LITTLE NOTICE

Holloway said she would have liked more advanced notice.

''My major problem was that I read the stuff in the newspaper and I called the agencies that were supposed to be responsible for the activity, and even their public information officers had no clue what was going on,'' she said. ``I don't begrudge them that they have to do this kind of thing, but at least give us a choice to not be here.''

Some in the Pentagon considered forgoing the public information campaign altogether, said Col. Stephen V. Reeves, program executive officer for the Chemical and Biological Defense program. Reeves was in the Keys Thursday to monitor testing.

'I received [a recommendation] from counsel, `Maybe we should just go ahead,' '' Reeves said. ``I decided not to do that. If we had been quiet about it and somebody had suddenly discovered it, it would have confirmed everybody's worst suspicions.''

The decision on how to publicize the tests apparently went all the way up the chain of command to Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld's office.

And so, last week, a steady parade of Keys residents was escorted to a blue tent pitched next to a government RV across U.S. 1 from the entrance to the Boca Chica Naval Air Field.

In an effort to allay local fears, Morales made a run to a local grocery, picking up an angelfood cake, Visine eyedrops and a mud mask of the kind used to combat acne -- all of which he said contained test ingredients.

''You can go to the supermarket and buy this stuff basically, except for the dead spores,'' he explained.

NOT SATISFIED

The explanation didn't entirely satisfy Debora Edholm, the wife of local Navy employee who says she has seen and photographed hundreds of ''chemtrails'' of dubious origin.

Thursday afternoon, Edholm and a friend were escorted down a winding and wooded path, past a fence that's usually chained and beyond the sharp cries of a mother hawk to the blue tent where researchers were communicating by radio with pilots and radar operators involved in the testing.

Next to radio consoles, maps and computer equipment were jars containing examples of the compounds the Army dispersed in the tests.

''I have done a lot of research on what vitamin supplements to take to combat the chemtrails. I get exhausted,'' Edholm explained. ``A lot of people down here are sick, you know. A lot of people think they are doing this to take out weak people. It's population control.''

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On the same note, you keep mentioning that weather control is proof that chemtrails exist.

That is not at all true. Your "chemtrails" are purposely released all over the globe for some population control or other adverse effect on mankind.

I didn't say anything like that. I said I had no idea what all had been released, nor did I ever speculate at the reasons for it.

It's true countries have tried weather control. China just attempted to stop rain during the Olympics. This is not debated, but it is not and should not be confused with the latter and more paranoid theory that it is actually chemicals being sprayed on humans to control them or whatever weird theory is out there.

Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about what was in the trails or what the purposes were. I only posted articles that claimed that the government admittedly used planes to release aerosol trails in the atmosphere, and also that they have tested biological and chemical agents on some of the U.S. population without prior knowledge.

So no, I will never admit that "CHEMtrails" exist as you define them. Weather manipulation? I'm sure there are vain enough men out there trying it (Hey, maybe China actually made it work?), but let's leave it at that.

I think we have different definitions in our heads for what a chem trail is. I'm thinking of any chemical or aerosol sprayed from a plane into the atmosphere. The agents they admit to using for weather manipulation are barium and aluminum, with possible plans to use up to 7% of the annual find of sulfur to possibly stop global warming. These are hardly inert or benign chemicals, and undoubtedly fall to earth, over U.S. cities.

Why don't you google or search for "Chemtrail debunkers" and make up your own mind. Why poke and prod us, who don't really care what you think about this, into persuading you that they don't. Only you can make up your mind, and it obviously has already been made.

My mind has been made up, as far as the things I just said. I never claimed anything about mind control conspiracies. I have read plenty of articles debunking chem trails, but I've yet to find any official government denial, or any claims of libel against any chem trail accusations. The closest I've come to finding anything like that were previously classified projects that are now public, laws that give the government authority to test bio and chemical agents on unsuspecting Americans, etc. I thought that since you guys are so satisfied with your position, that you might have some info that I haven't found yet. If you do, please post it FTW. I have yet to see anything resembling proof that they don't exist :)

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Nasa is a part of the governement. Is their explanation not good enough?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Nasa is a part of the governement. Is their explanation not good enough?

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NASA says that they are contrails, and that contrails are just water vapor, or clouds. Then they show IR pictures of the water vapor and clouds over the U.S. Then they show "enhanced" IR images of the same space which show some weak clouds and very highly visible contrails that trump all the other water vapor in the atmosphere. I couldn't find an explanation for why the contrails were so pronounced in the enhanced IR images, when they are supposedly the exact same thing as the rest of the clouds. So I'm back at square one. There might be a good explanation, but I didn't see one.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley/...04/04-140.html

Those probably are contrails, at least for the most part. But that doesn't prove they don't exist, or that they aren't being used to a smaller extent.

anyone done tests with IR images to see what plane exhaust looks like?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Nasa is a part of the governement. Is their explanation not good enough?

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If I'm correct NASA is not part of the United States Government?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mooingtricycle

anyone done tests with IR images to see what plane exhaust looks like?

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The Chemtrails are different from a planes exhaust as is a crop duster.

YouTube - ChemTrail Plane in detail

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serpents_Den

If I'm correct NASA is not part of the United States Government?

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You sure?

"
National Aeronautics and Space Administration: an independent agency of the United States government responsible for aviation and spaceflight"

www.Nasa.Gov

"
What Is NASA?
NASA stands for National Aeronautics and Space Administration. NASA was started in 1958 as a part of the United States government. NASA is in charge of U.S. science and technology that has to do with airplanes or space.
"