prekilling your snake's prey by yourself?

You eat meat?

"There has been criticism of the methods of preparation, herding, and killing within slaughterhouses, and in particular of the speed with which the slaughter is conducted. Investigations by animal welfare and animal rights groups have indicated that a proportion of animals are being skinned or gutted while alive and apparently conscious. There has also been criticism of the methods of transport of the animals, who are driven for hundreds of miles to slaughterhouses in conditions that often result in crush injuries and death en route." (this is from wikipedia, not the best source I know but it does happen)

I'm not saying it's okay!!! It's very BAD!!!

I'm very very against animal cruelty.. I hate to see any animal suffer. I breed my own feeders and become very attached to my breeders so I try to minimize the pain when I p/k.

I just wanted to point out that people are using the 'snakes got to eat' excuse which is valid. They do have to eat. And so do people. The only reason we have problems with it is because we are here to witness it. I still eat meat, even after watching horrid peta videos about slaughter houses.

Ergo I don't have a problem with my snakes eating meat I've killed myself. This way I know how it died. And i know how it lived, all my feeders get the best of care and sometimes love/handling, while growing up.

Just my two cents, but it has been said 2cents isn't worth much. *shrug*

I hope I haven't steped over any lines here.

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Originally Posted by truthsdeceit

You eat meat?

"There has been criticism of the methods of preparation, herding, and killing within slaughterhouses, and in particular of the speed with which the slaughter is conducted. Investigations by animal welfare and animal rights groups have indicated that a proportion of animals are being skinned or gutted while alive and apparently conscious. There has also been criticism of the methods of transport of the animals, who are driven for hundreds of miles to slaughterhouses in conditions that often result in crush injuries and death en route." (this is from wikipedia, not the best source I know but it does happen)

I'm not saying it's okay!!! It's very BAD!!!

I'm very very against animal cruelty.. I hate to see any animal suffer. I breed my own feeders and become very attached to my breeders so I try to minimize the pain when I p/k.

I just wanted to point out that people are using the 'snakes got to eat' excuse which is valid. They do have to eat. And so do people. The only reason we have problems with it is because we are here to witness it. I still eat meat, even after watching horrid peta videos about slaughter houses.

Ergo I don't have a problem with my snakes eating meat I've killed myself. This way I know how it died. And i know how it lived, all my feeders get the best of care and sometimes love/handling, while growing up.

Just my two cents, but it has been said 2cents isn't worth much. *shrug*

I hope I haven't steped over any lines here. :D

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I'm a vegetarian.
I know plenty about it, and that's why my point is pretty valid. ;)
Here's the difference. Snakes have to have a diet of meat. People DO NOT have to have a diet of meat to get all the proper nutrients, but that is a discussion for another topic.

I am very against animal cruelty as well, which is why I think it's important for you to consider humane resources to kill your snakes. I use CD quite a bit, and I don't like it. I try to use CO2 when I can to get a large amount of mice/rats killed and frozen at one time. I also have a good friend (of my mothers) who taught me how to CD properly, as she used to work in a lab where they had to kill mice and rats by CD.

:gj:

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

I'm a vegetarian.
I know plenty about it, and that's why my point is pretty valid. ;)
Here's the difference. Snakes have to have a diet of meat. People DO NOT have to have a diet of meat to get all the proper nutrients, but that is a discussion for another topic.

I am very against animal cruelty as well, which is why I think it's important for you to consider humane resources to kill your snakes. I use CD quite a bit, and I don't like it. I try to use CO2 when I can to get a large amount of mice/rats killed and frozen at one time. I also have a good friend (of my mothers) who taught me how to CD properly, as she used to work in a lab where they had to kill mice and rats by CD.

:gj:

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Good for you! I just can't give up my meat. :D

I do the same thing, cervical dislocation when I have to but I try to time things so I can use CO2 and freeze large batches.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

I'm a vegetarian.
I know plenty about it, and that's why my point is pretty valid. ;)
Here's the difference. Snakes have to have a diet of meat. People DO NOT have to have a diet of meat to get all the proper nutrients, but that is a discussion for another topic.

I am very against animal cruelty as well, which is why I think it's important for you to consider humane resources to kill your snakes. I use CD quite a bit, and I don't like it. I try to use CO2 when I can to get a large amount of mice/rats killed and frozen at one time. I also have a good friend (of my mothers) who taught me how to CD properly, as she used to work in a lab where they had to kill mice and rats by CD.

:gj:

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off topic, how much protein do you take in daily? and can you eat fish and eggs?

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Originally Posted by truthsdeceit

Good for you! I just can't give up my meat. :D

I do the same thing, cervical dislocation when I have to but I try to time things so I can use CO2 and freeze large batches.

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After you don't eat meat for a year or so, it doesn't taste very good anymore. At least not for me. ;]

Recently I have been feeding live/frozen depending on availability and have not needed to PK any of my animals. I did a little with some of my picky feeders to keep them in the 'frozen' type of mood, but they will all take either now.
:]

Except for my live only feeders.

Also, I know this is off topic.. but I just wanted to let you know is PETA is a shell. The inside of that shell is dark and nasty. I really don't like that organization, as they only look at the negative slaughters and they over exaggerate. It does happen, but not 100% of the time. The co-creator believes in no-human animal contact, not even seeing-eye-dogs or any pet.. and any animal that has been in contact with humans is corrupt and should be killed.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

After you don't eat meat for a year or so, it doesn't taste very good anymore. At least not for me. ;]

Recently I have been feeding live/frozen depending on availability and have not needed to PK any of my animals. I did a little with some of my picky feeders to keep them in the 'frozen' type of mood, but they will all take either now.
:]

Except for my live only feeders.

Also, I know this is off topic.. but I just wanted to let you know is PETA is a shell. The inside of that shell is dark and nasty. I really don't like that organization, as they only look at the negative slaughters and they over exaggerate. It does happen, but not 100% of the time. The co-creator believes in no-human animal contact, not even seeing-eye-dogs or any pet.. and any animal that has been in contact with humans is corrupt and should be killed.

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yeah off topic... I know peta is a dark organization, I just metioned it cause it's a name people recognize and I have seen their horror films. *shudder*

kinda back on topic.
I've just go mice right now. I really couldn't CD a rat.. I don't think. I had them as pets as a child... I actually just got a pair of girls (so cute!! I'm happy to have ratty pets again). They're pretty young but they will eventually produce some feeders for me. Those are definitely gonna be Co2'd.

Mice seem easier because they're smaller and (in my opinion) stupider, I've never been able to train a mouse so while I like my breeders the attachment isn't the same.

Do you know, How does CDing a Rat compare to a Mouse, physically? Is a rat harder to 'break'...?

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Originally Posted by truthsdeceit

yeah off topic... I know peta is a dark organization, I just metioned it cause it's a name people recognize and I have seen their horror films. *shudder*

kinda back on topic.
I've just go mice right now. I really couldn't CD a rat.. I don't think. I had them as pets as a child... I actually just got a pair of girls (so cute!! I'm happy to have ratty pets again). They're pretty young but they will eventually produce some feeders for me. Those are definitely gonna be Co2'd.

Mice seem easier because they're smaller and (in my opinion) stupider, I've never been able to train a mouse so while I like my breeders the attachment isn't the same.

Do you know, How does CDing a Rat compare to a Mouse, physically? Is a rat harder to 'break'...?

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pardon my ignorance, but what the heck does "CDing" mean?

also, will a snake eat 2 mice at one feeding?

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Originally Posted by djansen

off topic, how much protein do you take in daily? and can you eat fish and eggs?

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Protein is not only available in meat or fish products. Dark green leaves provide high sources of protein, also soy products and many other vegetarian sources. Chances are she intakes more protein in a day then most Americans just because of what she would eat on a daily basis is very healthy and high in many minerals, protein and nutrients.

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Originally Posted by python baller

pardon my ignorance, but what the heck does "CDing" mean?

also, will a snake eat 2 mice at one feeding?

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Cervical Dislocation, or I guess Dislocating in this case.. Sorry for the short hand.

Yes, a snake will eat muliple smaller meals instead of one large item. It depends on the size/appetite of your snake as to what size and how many is appropriate per feeding.

I'm feeding multiple hoppers to my king right now because I have extras frozen that I need to get rid of before he moves up a size.

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Originally Posted by djansen

off topic, how much protein do you take in daily? and can you eat fish and eggs?

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Protein is not only available in meat or fish products. Dark green leaves provide high sources of protein, also soy products and many other vegetarian sources. Chances are she intakes more protein in a day then most Americans just because of what she would eat on a daily basis is very healthy and high in many minerals, protein and nutrients.

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What Connie said.

I am not vegan. I do eat eggs, not very much though. I never liked milk, but do enjoy cheese.
No, people who eat fish are not a vegetarian. If you eat fish you are a pescatarian, which in my opinion, doesn't mean a ton to me, but it is an often big step for people trying to become vegetarians or vegans.

Dark vegetables are fantastic. When I tell people I dislike lettuce, their jaws drop and say 'how can you be a vegetarian and not like lettuce?'
I dislike iceberg lettuce which is low in nutrients and is basically water, it shouldn't be the part of the meal that is 'vegetable healthy' which it often is in American families. I however, love dark leaves such as spinach in a vinaigrette salad. MUCH healthier.
I'm still working on amino acid intake with supplements, however, I do believe there are other methods of getting amino acids, and I have been looking them up.

We are way off topic. Lets stop talking about this please.

Edit: If you like, you may read more here.
http://www.vegsoc.org/info/protein.html#requ

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Protein is not only available in meat or fish products. Dark green leaves provide high sources of protein, also soy products and many other vegetarian sources. Chances are she intakes more protein in a day then most Americans just because of what she would eat on a daily basis is very healthy and high in many minerals, protein and nutrients.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

What Connie said.

I am not vegan. I do eat eggs, not very much though. I never liked milk, but do enjoy cheese.
No, people who eat fish are not a vegetarian. If you eat fish you are a pescatarian, which in my opinion, doesn't mean a ton to me, but it is an often big step for people trying to become vegetarians or vegans.

Dark vegetables are fantastic. When I tell people I dislike lettuce, their jaws drop and say 'how can you be a vegetarian and not like lettuce?'
I dislike iceberg lettuce which is low in nutrients and is basically water, it shouldn't be the part of the meal that is 'vegetable healthy' which it often is in American families. I however, love dark leaves such as spinach in a vinaigrette salad. MUCH healthier.
I'm still working on amino acid intake with supplements, however, I do believe there are other methods of getting amino acids, and I have been looking them up.

We are way off topic. Lets stop talking about this please.

Edit: If you like, you may read more here.
http://www.vegsoc.org/info/protein.html#requ

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sorry for getting off topic. I am a personal trainer and big into nutrition for fitness.
back to gassing rodents.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

anywhere that has basements should have CO2 detectors, people do get killed by it. Furnaces are the usual cause for the creation of CO2.

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Sorry Butter but furnaces do not produce CO2. They can sometimes leak CO which is carbon monoxide. People get their gases mixed up.

Starmom,

I would like to give you my "worthless" two cents and tell you that you need to understand it was just my point of view. Thanks for being so mature about this....this is a never ending discussion people. Kind like evolution/creation story. Happy debating

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Originally Posted by Basketball303

Starmom,

I would like to give you my "worthless" two cents and tell you that you need to understand it was just my point of view. Thanks for being so mature about this....this is a never ending discussion people. Kind like evolution/creation story. Happy debating

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Maturity is what you were lacking in your post. Read, really read, my responses and try to learn and grow a little bit from them. That's all any of us can do for each other.

I encourage you to read other members' responses. And then read some literature on this issue. I think your knowledge base might be a little lacking in this subject area for you to have such an inflexible opinion at this time :)

Anyone who has changed their mind about how they will dispatch rodents based on the discussion in this thread please report in. I'm interested to see how inflexible other peoples opinions are on this sensitive subject. I would guess almost everyone has a hardened opinion that would be nearly impossible to change.

I have read the literature on this, extensively...I guess I am just a person who thinks animals are animals, no souls, just trained responses throughout time. I will admit I am new to herping and I do appreciate all and every opinion on this sensitive matter. I guess what I was just looking for what a general acceptance on my method of stunning and then feeding because I do not have the money or enough snakes to buy a large quanitity of frozen mice/rats. My methods work best for me and I have had no problems with my snake so far. So simplechamp I guess my answer to your question would be that no my mind hasn't changed because of this thread, i believe it might change with the more snakes I get.

i don't want a chunk of dry ice finding it's way into one of the hands of my kids, so that's a no-go. i also don't wanna beat the hell out of a rat. i think i'll just try to feed a smaller prey item and find a way to hold it down until the snake has attacked it.

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Originally Posted by python baller

i don't want a chunk of dry ice finding it's way into one of the hands of my kids, so that's a no-go. i also don't wanna beat the hell out of a rat. i think i'll just try to feed a smaller prey item and find a way to hold it down until the snake has attacked it.

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Here's the good news - you don't have to use dry ice. Here's another alternative for making a CO2 chamber. Again - this states that CO2 is recognized as a HUMANE method of pre-killing your prey.

I personally will never support bashing or stunning of prey. I don't care if someone doesn't have feelings for the prey - it's cruel and not necessary when f/t is available to purchase and a CO2 chamber is so easy to make.

I feed live, and I've never stunned a prey item.

http://www.thereddragonsden.com/co2.htm

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Originally Posted by giaach

Sorry Butter but furnaces do not produce CO2. They can sometimes leak CO which is carbon monoxide. People get their gases mixed up.

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Not to drag this out but you are wrong.

http://www.inspect-ny.com/hazmat/CO2gashaz.htm

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How might CO2 accumulate at a dangerous level in a residential property?

Carbon dioxide, CO2, from a small leak is unlikely to be dangerous, as it can be expected to be diluted with fresh air mixing in a building. But there can be exceptions in which carbon dioxide may accumulate and reach higher, even dangerous concentrations indoors.

* Flue gas spillage: in an enclosed gas-fired boiler room with a deficient chimney draft can produce high levels of CO2. In a case in which there is sufficient combustion air, say from a direct air duct to the gas burner, the system may not be producing more dangerous carbon monoxide (CO), but the heating system may nonetheless spilling flue gases with a high level of CO2 into the room from a defective chimney. Since CO2 being more dense than air it may accumulate in an enclosed basement, crawl space, or boiler room. Alternatively, because the CO2 in this case is a heating system exhaust, it may be warmer than surrounding air and it may rise upwards in the building into the living space. For this reason when we measure for the presence of flue gases, even if the gas is one which is "supposed to be" heavier than air, we may measure both high and low in the test area.
* Soil sources of high carbon dioxide in buildings: NIOSH reports on an investigation of complaints by homeowners of blurred vision, breathlessness, and "episodic mild confusion" caused by exposure to from elevated carbon dioxide levels in a finished basement and an adjacent crawlspace. West Virginia Department of Environmental Protection detected carbon dioxide levels up to 9.5 percent in the basement and CO2levels up to 11 percent in the crawlspace grave, with 12 percent in the basement floor drain (suggesting a soil source of CO2 in a home in West Virginia home, according to a NIOSH report. CO2 levels in the soil surrounding the home were measured at levels up to 8 percent. The probable source of the high CO2 levels in the soils under and around this home

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Originally Posted by Basketball303

I have read the literature on this, extensively...I guess I am just a person who thinks animals are animals, no souls, just trained responses throughout time....

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Humans are animals also.... ;)

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Originally Posted by starmom

Humans are animals also.... ;)

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And many people think humans have no souls, and just respond as we have been trained to respond over the course of our lives. Not what I believe, but some do.

Now back to the never ending rodent killing debate...