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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanarybird
No, history.
So.... Native Americans believing in the spirit of the earth is history, so therefore all animals have spirits that's directly linked to their emotions and instincts?
Sounds like theology to me. :rolleyes:
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
No, the fact that our emotional side didn't develop AFTeR our intellect or out of line with a concept of nature and out place within the macrocosm. It's our intellect and ambition that has done the damage. Animals may not have a great intellect (to do math, build electronics etc) but it's probably because they didn't need it. We developed our intellect as a natural mechanism to survive. Seems outdated now.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Simply suggesting that emotions, creation, interraction, magnetism et al. are all co-dependant. The only thing a high intellect is good for is building crap to sell at radio shack.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanarybird
No, the fact that our emotional side didn't develop AFTER our intellect or out of line with a concept of nature and out place within the macrocosm. It's our intellect and ambition that has done the damage. Animals may not have a great intellect (to do math, build electronics etc) but it's probably because they didn't need it. We developed our intellect as a natural mechanism to survive. Seems outdated now.
This is a fact? Again, what proof do you have that any animals know emotions as humans know them? Your in a sense saying that having emotions is a fact and hinting at the idea that animals intelligence has no bearing on emotional capacity. Am I getting that right?
I'm trying to read your statements in relation to the original topic, and frankly, I have no idea what tangent your attempting to go off on. Humans destroying the planet? Animals don't?
Maybe since animals don't destroy the planet like you have said, perhaps humans needed to learn how to judge ourselves with a conscience and learn sympathy.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
The need for sympathy and judgement only arose from our overpopulation and destructive nature.
Our "best qualities" have only come from our own foibles. Ketchup anyone?
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanarybird
The need for sympathy and judgement only arose from our overpopulation and destructive nature.
Our "best qualities" have only come from our own foibles. Ketchup anyone?
:confused:
Anywho...
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
I know my snake likes me cause she eats every time i offer.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
I don't understand why everyone fights and argues so much in these threads. When someone asks me the question, "How do you know if your snake likes you?" I assume that they are using the word "like" because that's how humans view it. If this person and I were snakes, we might use the word, "tolerate". Anyway, it's all the same. One who is asking this question is just simply asking, "How do you know if your snake is comfortable with you?" At least, that's how I see it.
I know my snake "likes" me when she eats for me every time, eats with me watching (to makes sure she doesn't have any problems) doesn't bite me when I take her out, and doesn't always try to slither away in a panic when I hold her. She is calm, and acts on her normal instincts without letting me get in her way. This, to me, says, "I am comfortable with you. I trust you. I like you." <-- take your pick. :gj:
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Brava. Good post there, Mindibun. :)
I will not go into this, except to say that going by the basic definition of 'Emotion' which says: "A measurable, physical response to salient stimuli.", animals definitely have them. Fear. Aggression. These are emotions that are seen in most animals on the planet. Feelings, however, are subjective and something entirely different. We don't know the extent of any animals potential feelings. Is it just instinct or something more? As of now, there is no real way to tell.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Wow some very good posts! Argenta you are right, the thread started about bonding but went into emotion and perception and I think everyone here would agree that BP’s are very sensitive little guys. The numerous threads devoted to reducing their anxiety levels, helping them feel safe and relaxed in their environments so they will eat etc…show they are in some ways very susceptible to anxiety indeed.
Connie when you keep comparing humans to animals, I think you’ re projecting a bit. Intellect aside, humans vary a LOT in their ability to feel emotion, bond, empathize etc… We may live in groups and have some ingrained behavioral traits for survival purposes, but that is not the same as complex, deep emotion or true bonding. I am not just referring to individual sociopaths either, there are large cultures where bonding is at a minimum, empathy is rare and watching ones own small children starve to death while the parents eat their fill first is common practice.
I know this thread is not about the lack of human emotions, but when humans keep being compared to other animals it does factor in.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonya610
Connie when you keep comparing humans to animals, I think you’ re projecting a bit. Intellect aside, humans vary a LOT in their ability to feel emotion, bond, empathize etc… We may live in groups and have some ingrained behavioral traits for survival purposes, but that is not the same as complex, deep emotion or true bonding. I am not just referring to individual sociopaths either, there are large cultures where bonding is at a minimum, empathy is rare and watching ones own small children starve to death while the parents eat their fill first is common practice.
How am I the one projecting here? I think my entire message is to NOT project or humanize animals. This entire thread has been can snakes like you? In human terms, it denotes a certain bonding and attachment that we often construe to be emotional bond. I simply don't believe snakes have emotional bonds with others of their species or us humans.
Can mammals have emotional bonds? A lot of mammals are social, so they do need to be bonded and tight knit. But neither am I humanizing dogs and cats or birds.
Do opossums have the same social structure like dogs? No, they are mostly solitary and have no use for bonding to a group. This social need greatly affects how animals do bond and interact with us.
Some mammals do have emotions, dogs can be depressed, or excited. But do they sympathize with humans? It's to that far extent that I think we take humanizing too far.
I think they rely heavily on the moods of the pack, but I won't go so far as to say that the dogs are thinking about how you feel emotionally and if they've hurt your feelings.
And really, what large cultures watch their young starve? What culture watches their young starve in and not care? How do you really know that these parents of starving children aren't torn up and trying their best?
If your going back the Africa example, I have to believe you really don't know what your talking about. Sorry, from the posts I've read from you, I simply can't believe you have any real clue.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleindiangirl
How am I the one projecting here? I think my entire message is to NOT project or humanize animals. This entire thread has been can snakes like you? In human terms, it denotes a certain bonding and attachment that we often construe to be emotional bond. I simply don't believe snakes have emotional bonds with others of their species or us humans.
Can mammals have emotional bonds? A lot of mammals are social, so they do need to be bonded and tight knit. But neither am I humanizing dogs and cats or birds.
Do opossums have the same social structure like dogs? No, they are mostly solitary and have no use for bonding to a group. This social need greatly affects how animals do bond and interact with us.
Some mammals do have emotions, dogs can be depressed, or excited. But do they sympathize with humans? It's to that far extent that I think we take humanizing too far.
I think they rely heavily on the moods of the pack, but I won't go so far as to say that the dogs are thinking about how you feel emotionally and if they've hurt your feelings.
And really, what large cultures watch their young starve? What culture watches their young starve in and not care? How do you really know that these parents of starving children aren't torn up and trying their best?
If your going back the Africa example, I have to believe you really don't know what your talking about. Sorry, from the posts I've read from you, I simply can't believe you have any real clue.
Great post! Most notably the last sentence!
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleindiangirl
And really, what large cultures watch their young starve? What culture watches their young starve in and not care? How do you really know that these parents of starving children aren't torn up and trying their best?
Wow...errrmmm...okay then. I would suspect they are not all that torn up about it because if they were they would share their food and starve with them. If you have an interest in the common practices of other humans, then try Google, or don't as it might reveal facts that you would prefer to ignore.
I realize I should not have commented on your opinions and apologize to the other posters if this brings down the level of discussion in this thread.
Peace.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Sonya,
Why not post the links to these articles? Obviously starvation in Africa is a problem but no where can I find anything about parents eating while there children starve. Can you point me in the right direction?
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaniard
Sonya,
Why not post the links to these articles? Obviously starvation in Africa is a problem but no where can I find anything about parents eating while there children starve. Can you point me in the right direction?
Sure, here are some links, most of the info comes from aid organizations:
http://www.fao.org/docrep/w9990e/w9990e10.htm: In many societies, tradition dictates that the men eat first and receive the best food. When food is scarce, this often means that women and children go without. Thus, women in the developing world are more likely to be undernourished than men. Closely spaced pregnancies also take their toll, leading in many cases to anaemia, a major cause of maternal mortality.
http://www.etext.org/Politics/Somali...me.1/snu-1.30: Riding on the back of a pickup truck into Liboi camp just east of Dagahaley, regional camp coordinator Gail Neudorf of Vancouver, B.C., pointed to a group of men standing and talking.
"Look at those men. Do you see anybody malnourished? No," she said. "That's because the men eat first, the women eat next, then the children eat -- if there's anything left after the animals eat. That's what really hurts: The animals eat before the children.
"It makes sense for survival in the nomadic culture. But not now."
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1831953
In fact foreign aid organizations sometimes judge the level of famine in various areas based on the condition of the mature males, because when they start to starve it shows the famine is becoming quite severe. That might make sense if the males were the primary breadwinners, but often the women do most of the manual labor yet they still are secondary when it comes to food.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080609/...thiopia_hunger SHASHAMANE, Ethiopia - But Usheto is not the typical face of Ethiopia's chronic food problems, the scrawny baby or the ailing toddler. At age 55, he is among a growing number of adults and older children — traditionally less-vulnerable groups — who have been stricken by severe hunger due to poor rains and recent crop failure in southern Ethiopia, health workers say.
There are a lot more articles on the topic. I am sure some will feel the need to point out the obvious, these practices developed as survival strategies, and yup, I would agree.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Wow, it's clear that some people have different definitions of words like 'emotion', 'thinking', 'feeling', 'projecting', etc. Lets try not to argue over definitions...
The original question is about how bp's 'like' us - if they do, how do they show it? Of course they don't like us the way our boyfriend/girlfriend/parent/friend likes us, but maybe they can grow to trust and yes, like or love us, as much as a ball python is capable.
Let's not make out like we're the only creatures on this earth able to feel anything.
I'd like to hear more examples (concrete i.e. behaviour, anecdotes) of whether our little critters 'like' us. If you think they do, then tell us what behaviour makes you think so. If you think not, tell us how your ball pythons don't recognise you, show no personality or preference for you... etc.
ps. Sonya610 - those links! It's so sad but true, what happens in some countries...
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