Gas prices??? What are we to do??

Thats another thing. We are trying to cut back on feeder costs by breeding our own. And so, until we get our colony established and producing regularly, we are not bringing any more snakes into the house. We have 11 right now and while I really really want a het albino pair next month, its a no until our feeding bill goes down.

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Originally Posted by FL0OD

wow, hows your blood pressure?

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Ha ha, pretty good. I exercise and hike quite a lot, and eat pretty healthy. Plus I'm only 21. That was funny though, thanks. For the most part, I try not to let the reality of how much of everything we have all messed up get me down. I'm sure there is a way to fix it, I just don't see it yet.Until then, just gotta enjoy the little things in life, I was serious about the carpe diem part. Gas doesn't hurt me too much, cause I don't really waste money on a lot of anything, so if it goes up, it just means I change my budget. It sucks, but in the short term not much I can do about it. I hike closer to where I live, and probably won't be going to the beach as much this summer.

Though, if I had my own piece of property, I would love to make/buy a still and grow some sugar cane. You can actually run most vehicles on e85 with no changes to their fuel systems at all. And by running pure ethanol in my mr2, I could actually tune the car for it and gain 10 or 15hp. Go faster, save money, and save baby seals? Not a bad deal!

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

That's a great idea and all, but people have already stopped spending money on those other things. This decrease in consumer spending is why the dollar continues to devalue, pushing us into a recession, and raising gas, food, and consumer good prices even more.

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The problem here isn't consumer spending; people cutting down on buying needless things is good. Hopefully we will stop wasting resources producing them. The problem is what our economy is based on. We no longer produce things in our country. We buy, buy, buy. As soon as the buying stops, the economy stops. Many people spend their whole lives working to buy things they don't need, when in fact they never learn to enjoy life, cause they are too busy working hard to buy those things they never get to enjoy. Don't even get me started on consumer debt, credit cards, and how messed up our tax and banking systems are. What's causing prices to go up is the falling value of the US dollar. Which has a lot more to do with how our economy and national bank/debt is setup than anything else. A lot of people are getting richer right now, but a lot more people are getting poorer.

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Unfortunately, in doing so, the money in your pocket would continue to devalue, so you would still have less, and while in shape, you wouldn't really be able to afford food for yourself and your family.

The problem with being, not only a developed nation, but the most affluent nation on earth, is that you can't simply go back to acting like a third world country and maintain your standard of living. Sure, we can save our pennies, but that very act makes them worth less, and in the long run won't do a thing to solve our economic issues.

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Once again, this shows the problems with our economic system. There is a medical term for growth for the sake of growth; it's called cancer. With our current system, if we stop growing, we die; that's what's happening right now. But in nature, it's the other way around; if you don't STOP growing, you die.

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Originally Posted by Houzi88

We could have a national "don't buy gas" day?

Or just buy gas as little as possible.

But basically there's nothing really that we can do, unless people start making more and more cars that are more efficient but other than that we're Fu:cens0r:

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That would never work. People would just buy gas the day before or the day after. It might have more of an impact if we had a national don't use gas day. And we have the technology to make cleaner, more efficient cars. The oil and auto companies just don't want it to happen, and they have enough power in this country to keep it from happening. Though I don't believe in government regulation, it's the same as the idea of people sueing McDs for being fat. We need smarter consumers in this country. If people start buying more economical cars, manufacturers will start making them. GM created a functional electric car, the EV1, in the 1990s. It had a functional range of 300mi per charge, and could be built for a reasonable price once at full production levels. But people would rather buy hummers than electric vehicles.

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Originally Posted by NickMyers03

i would love to have a hybrid...but at 50K for them there is no way for me to get one. i would save money by buying a 20K car and using what i save per month for other stuff.. we go green as much as we can but the cost of going green is larger than standard materials.

a statement above said to ride a bike to work, as some of us work 1-2 hours away ( driving) this would not work. i wish it could but it doesnt. im actually thinking about buying a motorcycle so i dont burn as much gas during the nice days...

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See my above statement, hybrids are a joke. Most of the ones on the market don't realistically average better than 45mpg. VW has been making a diesel version of the Lupo (don't think it's available here due to stupid US standards that don't make any sense and are there because of the oil and auto industries) that gets 78 mpg, and cost's less than 20k brand new. A 1989 civic HF gets 45 mpg in a 20 year old car! (and surpasses all current US emissions standards).

However, most hybrid cars have sold quite well, which is the bottom line. The cars were created because there was a demand for them in the market. Now we (consumers) need to create a demand that will cause some real change.

Trouble to me, is not the price I pay at the pump. I can afford it. The biggest problem is, the cost of living has to rise when gas prices rise. Costs to transport food, fuel, goods, people.. goes up when gas prices rise. At this rate, when all of the small local shops are gone because walmart put them out of business, people will complain because they can't even afford to drive to walmart.

I dont know about anyone else, but I have only ever commuted to work sometimes an hour, sometimes an hour and a half, and as it stands, either you drive yourself, or pay a taxi. Paying a taxi around here would seriously cost me A LOT more than I make in a day. NOT WORTH IT. I do well driving myself.

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Originally Posted by NickMyers03

a statement above said to ride a bike to work, as some of us work 1-2 hours away ( driving) this would not work. i wish it could but it doesnt. im actually thinking about buying a motorcycle so i dont burn as much gas during the nice days...

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I used to bike to work and school back when I lived in Chico, but you could ride from one side of the town to the other in 30 minutes. If you live more than a 30 minute bike ride to or from work (which is only 10 minutes driving or so) then I don't see riding a bike as feasible.

But however, I don't understand why you would want to live one or two hours by car from where you work. That's 1-2 hours of your life that you lose every week doing nothing but sitting, and you're not getting paid for it!

I hope that's 1-2 hours in traffic, by the way, cause you're just crazy living 100 miles from where you work if not. It only takes me 15 minutes, by car, to get to work or school right now. I can't stand traffic, it's such a horrible waste of money and time, plus it just upsets me.

If you calculate it, at 1 hour a day each way, 5 days a week, you lose 10 hours of your life every week sitting in traffic, not getting paid. Kudos to those people who listen to audio tapes or NPR while driving, at least you're trying to make use of such a waste, but still, that's horrible!

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Originally Posted by NickMyers03

i would love to have a hybrid...but at 50K for them there is no way for me to get one. i would save money by buying a 20K car and using what i save per month for other stuff.. we go green as much as we can but the cost of going green is larger than standard materials.

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See what I said above about the prius, civic hf, and lupo. But as to the whole buying green thing, I find green and organic products to be as much of a joke as anything else. Personally, I try to buy local or grow it myself whenever possible, its better and cheaper that way (PS farmers markets are awesome!).

With green/organic it's all just marketing. What constitutes organic? The standards are kinda fuzzy, especially when something "contains organic ingredients." Pah. How much gas did it take to ship it across the country? What's the size of it's carbon footprint? How about packaging? We pay a ridiculous amount of money just for packaging.

And with regards to "green" plastic or paper or whatever products, in most cases, I don't need the product in the first place. Not being wasteful is the greenest thing of all. Plus, the same comments concerning carbon footprints apply.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Trouble to me, is not the price I pay at the pump. I can afford it. The biggest problem is, the cost of living has to rise when gas prices rise. Costs to transport food, fuel, goods, people.. goes up when gas prices rise. At this rate, when all of the small local shops are gone because walmart put them out of business, people will complain because they can't even afford to drive to walmart.

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See what I wrote above. The problem with things is we transport them too far, when we should be able to get many things locally or go without all together. I once watched this documentary where they caught shrimp in the UK, shipped them to India to be shelled and packaged, then shipped them back to England! Now how dumb is that?

I agree with you on the shipping subject, TwoMetal. I cannot see how it is cheaper for companies to ship things overseas to assemble, then ship back.. Maybe it is. But it seems ridiculous.. Maybe the fuel prices raised will make it less profitable to do so? The way I see "buying green" is this. I live in an area with wind power. Big old windmills supply us. This to me is greener than burning coal or other power sources. Now as for heating, we have a gas well on the property here where we rent. No shipping costs for fuel, save for them drilling the pipes into the ground, which had near-zero environmental impact on the land. My friends who live with propane tank delivery.. it is astounding to see how much their tanks travel to get from the supplier to their homes; much less before that!
Want to know my opinion on the best way to live greener? Don't have kids. :) I have chosen not to, and I figure that I have some wiggle room then. As I have not doubled, tripled, or more, my footprint on Earth. I am glad that my husband agrees with me on this one.. I mean No Offense on parents out there. I do things daily that contribute to the demise of the Earth; we all do, just by merely existing and living as humans in this century. Being online right now, on plastic computers, using electricity and bandwidth and satellites and whatnot.. none of us can claim to be fully organic and with nature, sadly. But this is just my lifestyle.

I've been seriously looking into buying a scooter to drive to work. even taking into consideration that I couldn't drive it in the winter, if I got the gas mileage that they claim, the thing could pay for itself within a couple of years. Less if gas prices continue climbing the way they are.

I just bought a motorcycle to try and save some gas(and have fun). I wish it would be against the law for all these idiots I see driving huge SUV's to go get groceries.

The only reason anyone is talking about gas prices is because it is finally affecting the rich white people in this country. Poor people haven't been able afford cars and gas for a long time and no one cares. we go and fight wars to protect the lifestyle of the rich people and die for it. Everyone of the people who can afford gas so they use so much of it just drives the cost up for all of us who cant afford it but they do not care.

I just want to start raising all my own food and stay home all the time. Most American's are greedy plain and simple so we will always complain about everything that keeps us from our gluttony.

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Originally Posted by Timbuktu

I just bought a motorcycle to try and save some gas(and have fun). I wish it would be against the law for all these idiots I see driving huge SUV's to go get groceries.

The only reason anyone is talking about gas prices is because it is finally affecting the rich white people in this country. Poor people haven't been able afford cars and gas for a long time and no one cares. we go and fight wars to protect the lifestyle of the rich people and die for it. Everyone of the people who can afford gas so they use so much of it just drives the cost up for all of us who cant afford it but they do not care.

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If people are rich.. I doubt that gas prices rising, even a few dollars a gallon, are affecting them much :) I can afford gas now, and I still care. I feel for people who are pinched tight, and I know that by the grace of my employer, that could be me next month.
As for big SUVs? Some need them! Look at me.. I live in a rural area, and if I had a little car, my driveway would laugh at me and spit me out all winter. As it is, I have gotten stuck in the snow a few times with 4wd. Now, granted, there are people out there who do not need big trucks (as, pickups are pretty close to SUVs, so I figure that you'd be against those too..) Farmers around here need pickups to live. To plow snow, pull trailers.. Without them, we would have no local produce.
Now, my beef is with people who own/drive large vehics, and do NOT know how to maneuver them. I too grind my teeth at the soccer mom in the huge Escalade who is going 20 in front of me in a 55 mph zone. But I also grind my teeth at the professional who cuts me off in his Jaguar. And I just might give an obscene finger gesture to the welfare recipient in the 1980 Ford Tempo if she cuts me off as well. I don't use the type of vehicle that a person drives, as a litmus test to say that I don't think they should drive. I am an equal opportunity hater :)
I used to be poor. I hauled myself up by my bootstraps, got a job that pays me well and hooked up with a husband who's likeminded and like me, came up from crap roots. No one should cry poor; if they do, chances are it is their fault, unless they are legitimately disabled or otherwise unable to work; then I would feel for them. And my tax dollars that I pay are enough that anyone who doesn't want to work should be able to go out and get welfare anyways, in my beautiful home state of NY.. Heh..

I know I said wouldn't post here anymore, but I got to reading...one thing led to another....anyway, here I am.

Just a few quick things.
1.) look into "brown's gas", it's the result of applying a DC current to water. The water separates into component parts and your left with something that has the combustibility of hydrogen with the stability of oxygen. You can run it through your current car ( for the most part) with only a few minor, inexpensive mods. It makes less power than petrol gas, but if you spend a lot of time at highway speeds, it's a great way to save a fortune! Here's how the system works. You pour water into a reservoir, usually no larger than a gallon. The water has DC current applied to it from your cars existing alternator, the resulting gas is fed into the intake manifold. The exhaust from burning pure "Brown's Gas" through an internal combustion engine instead of gasoline is.....water. The same thing that goes in in the first place. Google it, youtube it, it's out there!
2.) Welfare.... I am a full time student (grants and loans, otherwise I'd be slaving like everybody else), I work a part time job to cover daily living expenses(food,gas,etc), and in order help make ends meet (due to rising fuel costs) I decided to attempt getting on food stamps. I'm not ashamed of it, the system was designed to help people who need TEMPORARY assistance. I noticed in my paper work that if you didn't have a social security number it didn't matter, they wouldn't use it to verify your citizenship! I also noticed, in my paperwork that if your "seeking refuge" in Ky and haven't got a SS#, your eligible to receive ALL benefits automatically! On the other hand, if your working part time and taking a full load, your not...at least I wasn't...
3.) I wonder how much fuel is being used by a few thousand hummers, planes, helicopters and other vehicles buzzing around the middle east. Does anyone realize that a war on something as intangible as "terror" isn't able to be won? It can however be sustained, for grueling periods of time. Please feel free to research Halliburton, and Carlyle Group. Take note of where they're currently working and who is on the board of directors. Also, youtube "theramite", you might find some interesting stuff there.
I'm not a tree hugger by any means, but I understand the dangers we have put ourselves in through wasteful indulgences.

Keep your coins, I just want change.

I just wanted to add a few things i didn't see addressed. First, everyone needs to realize that ethanol DOES NOT give increased fuel economy compared to gas. it is a smaller molecule with less high energy bonds to break during combustion, resulting in less energy for the same amount of fuel. to get the same amount of power off of ethanol, you typically loose about 5mpg.
now, ethanol could be good for getting us off of our dependence on oil. fortunately for us, corn isn't out of the game quite yet, as there are newer methods that convert all of the corn biomass (stalk, leaves, ect...) to fuel, yielding up to 10 units ethanol per 1 unit petrol put in to the production process (for comparison, current ethanol production here is 1.3 to 1, sugar cane is 6 to 1)

also, i havn't seen hydrogen cars brought into the discussion. i know they aren't ready for production yet, but by the time the gas stations are ready, the cars will be. i'm really looking forward to GM releasing their fuel cell cars:gj:

Trying to get a job that comes with a company car and company gas card! :D Also a significant raise and less time spent away from home!

My personal solution to high gas prices!

Gas prices are putting a little hurting on me. I spend over $100 a week on gas to get to work. I spent around $60 when I got my job, so that is $40/month that has to be taken out of somewhere else in the budget.

We made the choice to live 35 miles from my job when we were shopping for houses. My house was around $150,000 cheaper 35 miles away from the city I work in. We made a CHOICE to live further away. So far the rise in gas prices from when I began my job costs us an additional $2500 a year. I figured that until gas prices reach around $6.50 a gallon, I will not reach a 'break even' point between the differences in housing costs vs. fuel costs.

I also made the CHOICE to drive a full size truck. I spend over an hour everyday on one of the deadliest roadways in the southeastern US. The thought of riding on this road in a small car scares the hell out of me. I fell 'safer' in a truck...so I pay for my own self assurance.

However, we have looked into a few things to help out with costs like trading in the truck. I bought it new, so considering the loss I would take on the truck if I were to trade in in for something a bit more fuel efficient......gas prices are not high enough yet to make that big of a difference. The increased payment per month is still greater than the increase in gas costs.

Oh well what can you do. We are gas dependant....so we just have to deal with it.

Maybe I'm crazy, but isn't the "oh well, what can you do" attitude what got us here in the first place? I mean standing by and just LETTING things happen typically leads to rather unfavorable results. I understand that they (the powers that be) appear to have us stuck between a rock and hard place, but what everyone doesn't seem to realize is that there is power in numbers. Significant numbers have significant power. I'm not saying to quit buying gas for a day, or a week or whatever. It's been hashed out too many times and it simply will not work. I mean, if everyone decided gas was too expensive, and they just quit driving altogether, then they couldn't work. If their employers had no workers, they couldn't operate,and would be forced to close. In short, the power to bring the entire economy to it's knees lies not in the hands of the few, but in all of our hands. The masses of people hold more power than they realize, or care to even consider evidently. I'll not go in depth here. But please, think about it on a grand scale, no cars or trucks driving, no workers working, no cash flowing, no government governing. I'm not advocating anarchy....I'm trying to open peoples eyes to possibilities.

Let the flaming commence!

You could even be advocating anarchy......but organization would still be required to achieve anarchy ;)

People are no where near organized enough to have a stronger influence on our politicians than the oil corperations.

My wife and I are oil and gas dependant. We have no other options. We are in the 'oh well' crowd. Getting away from gas is expensive....and with the price of gas we can't really afford to explore other options. However, it prices continue to increase we will hit a point where it is economically beneficial to us to make a 'switch' to another fuel/method/etc.

Oil and gas energy is still one of the most cost effective forms of powering ANYTHING.

The best solution to the entire issue is to develop a cheaper form of power than oil and gas. But with a new system, how long will it take for that to get twisted the same way as oil and gas?

I can see your point about it being a personal economic issue. I have struggled with this issue in my own life. I also can see how what I said could be misconstrued as advocating anarchy. That's not the case at all. I just wanted people to think outside of a unified currency situation for a moment, and imagine a situation where people traded goods/services that they have as personal assets for someone else's personal assets that they need/want. For instance, I might be really good at electrical work (i'm really not) and I might need some food or something, SO I'll do some electrical work for you for some of your veggies that you're so good at growing. no currency involved in the transaction, just personal assets. But that gets off topic too far.
I just really wondered how the economy would react to a massive failure of the work force because they can't afford to work...which eventually led me to that thought. sorry for veering so far off topic.

It is an interesting idea. Back to the old days ;) I like it.

Even more offtopic but on a similar thought process.....I alway thought it would be neat if all modern weapons disappeared and people had to fight with swords again. I think that would pretty much put an end to most conflicts with today's mindset against violence.

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Originally Posted by kneepoles

no currency involved in the transaction, just personal assets.

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The reality is that personal assets aren't excepted by the bank for my mortgage though......at least not the personal assets that I am willing to give up ;)

If you want gas prices to go down, its pretty simple - use less.

You can say things like, "oh, gas prices have been high in Europe for years", but what you don't realize is that 1) the govt taxes the crap out of it which accounts for a lot of the price, and 2) Europe is a much smaller place than the U.S. and thus lends itself to having a much more efficient public transit system.

The answer over there is that $8/gallon gas isn't a big deal because they have other alternatives.

Outside of the major cities, public transportation in the US is non-existant and the distances that most of america must travel every day to shop, work, vacation, etc makes using or creating public transit systems very expensive and inefficient. I would actually support an INCREASED tax on gasoline if it meant that those funds would go towards developing efficient public transportation like the rest of the developing world has. So far, Americans have been unwilling to support such projects. Will $6/gallon gas change your mind?

hell, here in michigan i'd be willing to pay more if the state would just put that money into the roads. but being that the state is broke, any money they get is going elsewhere.

I donated my Bonneville to charity and now share a Honda CR-V with my girl. I don't think it's the actual price of gas that makes people so mad, as much as it is the oil companies making increasingly growing record profits, the government's refusal to use our own oil resourses and or reserves, etc., while the rising cost for Americans is causing a ripple effect of problems.
June 2nd, 2008 starts the gas strike. Nobody is going to work or use a car for anything for as long as it takes for prices to drop to under $1.50. You heard it hear first, because I just made that up. I imagine that the lack of fuel purchases as well as a complete nation-wide shut down on all levels would get people moving towards a solution. If everyone said, "we've had enough. Starting June 2nd none of us get out of bed if the pumps say anything over $1.50.", the government would make sure prices stayed under $1.50 after seeing the effect of a few days of a completely shut down econemy. While it would never happen, it's a way better idea than that stupid notion that skipping a day at the pump, while not reducing actual use, will do anything.
:salute:

The most cost effective way of powering anything is Nuclear power. People just don't want to live near one cause they think their children will be born with 3 eyes or something. People don't realize that the average Nuclear worker recieves less radiation exposure in a YEAR than the average person will recieve on a sunny beach for a DAY!

Also as far as tapping our countries natural oil reserves goes, can I ask Why? Lets use up everyone elses first. It may cost a little now, but if we ever have to fuel an "all out war" against the middle eastern countries that supply our oil currently we have a reserve we can tap into. Also in the mean time if we were not buying our oil from the middle east then what relation would we have that would prevent them from declaring war on us!

As for depressed states and the revenues got from taxing oil goes, can you say the democrats in your state are giving it to all those unemployed people instead of giving it to industry so they can grow and hire more people!

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Originally Posted by Gloryhound

As for depressed states and the revenues got from taxing oil goes, can you say the democrats in your state are giving it to all those unemployed people instead of giving it to industry so they can grow and hire more people!

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And yet the industry is showing record profits this year? Why would they need the money at all??


I live in So Cal. My gas prices are around $3.83 a gallon. It's sad, but true.

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

And yet the industry is showing record profits this year? Why would they need the money at all??

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GREED! plain and simple. When they have the BALLS to stand before our congress begging for tax breaks cause they are loosing money but post 90 billion record PROFIT!!! Something is wrong. They wont build any more refineries to increase production because they know that we lazy American's are not about to give up our 15mpg SUV's for bikes or smaller compacts or walking. So they raise prices we keep buying and all the the while griping as we continue to swipe that card for pay at the pump.

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

And yet the industry is showing record profits this year? Why would they need the money at all??


I live in So Cal. My gas prices are around $3.83 a gallon. It's sad, but true.

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The origional person bringing this up is from Michigan! Major employers in Michigan are GM and Ford. Are they showing record profits? They have been in cut backs like crazy, laying people off, trying to get rid of the UAW overhead costs that Toyota does not have to deal with. If I remember correctly I think Ford lost the #2 spot to Toyota and Toyota is quickly closing in on taking the #1 spot from GM!

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

GREED! plain and simple. When they have the BALLS to stand before our congress begging for tax breaks cause they are loosing money but post 90 billion record PROFIT!!! Something is wrong. They wont build any more refineries to increase production because they know that we lazy American's are not about to give up our 15mpg SUV's for bikes or smaller compacts or walking. So they raise prices we keep buying and all the the while griping as we continue to swipe that card for pay at the pump.

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Sure, CEOs make a disgusting amount of money for what they do but that's no different than many other industries.

We live in a capitalist economy, and while it sounds like GREED, its actually more like a REWARD for being the company that provides the fuel for which our economy runs on. Also, many oil companies are publically traded and some people's retirement funds are heavily invested in energy companies like Exxon Mobil. That's the livelyhood of your neighbors on the line when you say that we should "crack down" on high profits acheived by outstanding companies.

Moreover, when the government starts making it less profitable for companies to do business domestically (ie tax breaks, incentives, write-offs, etc), guess what? They move somewhere where they can make a profit. Poof! Now your job has moved to India! Still think that "cracking down" is a good idea?

The government needs to leave their hands out of it, and instead focus on things that it can have a positive impact on.

Well we've been giving them free rain and look where we are.

Here's a good article that CNN just posted:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/24/bec...ces/index.html

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Originally Posted by twometal

The problem here isn't consumer spending; people cutting down on buying needless things is good.

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It most certainly is the problem when the economy is based on a skilled workforce that drives the production of developing nations.

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Originally Posted by twometal

Don't even get me started on consumer debt, credit cards, and how messed up our tax and banking systems are.

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If it's an accurate cancer analogy you're looking for, then this is it. Our credit, tax, and banking systems are all in the condition they're in now because the general population has figured out they can vote themselves money out of the pockets of other people, and in response, the people who were losing the most started having money legislated into their own pockets. This leaves the average middle-class consumer, who actually produces goods and services, with less and less purchasing power.

The real reason cancer kills in nature is because it grows unrestricted, and consumes resources needed by the healthy cells, and our primary form of cancer at this point is political special interests on both sides of the aisle.

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Originally Posted by twometal

The problem is what our economy is based on. We no longer produce things in our country. ... With our current system, if we stop growing, we die; that's what's happening right now. But in nature, it's the other way around; if you don't STOP growing, you die.

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Just like you can't simply decide to become a cow, and start eating grass, we can't wish ourselves into a different economic system. Our economy is largely service based, and as such, if we stop consuming services, or goods provided by those services, we starve financially. This isn't a problem, it's the way the economies of developed nations with skilled workforces work. As such, going back to the industrial revolution days of American manufacturing and minimalistic consumption wouldn't fix our problems, it would just put us on the same level with other developing nations, and seriously stagnate the innovation and invention we're known for, and enjoy the benefits of.

ok, so after having read all of the responses thus far, I've noticed that the one main problem that everybody can agree upon is that people are upset that they have to spend so much for gas, while the oil companies are reporting record profits. The problem boils down to money. What gives money value? The amount of it in circulation, the more of it that's in circulation, the less value it holds. Am I wrong? So, seems to me that if massive numbers of people stopped and said "this is worthless paper, I'm not using it for anything anymore" then the "rich" people would suddenly become as financially worthless as the money in their checking accounts. thoughts?

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Originally Posted by kneepoles

the "rich" people would suddenly become as financially worthless as the money in their checking accounts. thoughts?

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The 'poor' people would suddenly become as financially worthless as the money in their checking accounts too.

The value of the dollar effects everyone. It is not a rich/poor issue. It is a big business and politics issue.

I'm gonna convert my car to run on happiness and sunshine

or just buy a motorcycle

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Originally Posted by chetman7

I'm gonna convert my car to run on happiness and sunshine

or just buy a motorcycle

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LOL!!!

:8::rofl:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I cannot see how it is cheaper for companies to ship things overseas to assemble, then ship back..

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Considering the cost of the base resource, the labor costs associated with doing the manual labor, and taxation on all parties (especially for the UK, which has a national health care system to pay for), it can easily cost less, even with high fuel costs, to ship raw materials to a third world country for processing.

This is only made worse when raw materials must be imported as well (ie. American car manufacturing going to Mexico), and it costs significantly less to import the goods to the third world nation that's doing manufacturing.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Maybe the fuel prices raised will make it less profitable to do so?

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Only if fuel costs rise above the financial gains realized from less regulation, taxation, and a cheaper workforce. The real point here is that we don't want to move manufacturing jobs into developed nations, we need to be focusing on the things that made us great in the past, which is to say an environment that fosters innovation and invention through education and the ability to raise your position in life through merit and accomplishment.

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Originally Posted by kneepoles

What gives money value? The amount of it in circulation, the more of it that's in circulation, the less value it holds.

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The amount of money in circulation can only be directly tied to it's value in the microcosm of it's native economy. The point being that, if you reduced the amount of money in circulation down to a single dollar, or increased it to one-hundred quadrillion dollars, they would all collectively be worth the same -- the value the economy itself contains at that point in time (minus imports and plus exports).

When it comes to global economics, the value of a particular economy is always in terms of relative value to other economies. This is why the peso has never, and most likely will never be worth much -- even though they produce a lot of goods and services, Mexico simply doesn't have much of worth in their economy, and that which they do produce with their relatively low-skilled workers requires large-scale importation of resources.

I'm surprised the issue hasn't been adressed of besides the rising prices, how to make the most of the gas when we do buy it, I am not going to adress carpooling and don't buy a vehicle bigger than you need, etc.,as those are obvious, but heres some others which may not save you, but they will get you better mpg, and I'm sure people have heard them before, but really havn't taken them into consideration when costs were lower, heres some I remember offhand, feel free to add more if you remember any:
-Drive 60, most speeds above this aren't optimal operating conditions
-Don't be such a lead foot, doing such obviously uses more gas, really this reduces efficency more than anything else, accelerating rapidly between lights isn't necessary, can reduce mpg up to 40%
-Remove excess weight, be it junk you leave in it or anything else
-Use cruise control- varying the speeds arent helping
-Make sure your air filter is clean
-Properly inflate tires
-Don't use your AC when you don't need it
-Don't drive with the windows open at high speeds
-Make sure your fuel system is in good operating condition, be it the spark plugs, wires, as well as clean oil
-Also cold engines use more gas then warm ones
If your gas milage goes down, find out the reason rather than ignoring the problem.

Well gas is now $3.67 :mad:,gee its a shock they raised it 1 day after those checks went out :rolleyes: :rolleyes:.I HATE this price gouging pigs!!!!:mad::mad:

Four dollars.

Sucks that my generation will never experience 2 dollar gas. :(

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Originally Posted by Gloryhound

The most cost effective way of powering anything is Nuclear power. People just don't want to live near one cause they think their children will be born with 3 eyes or something. People don't realize that the average Nuclear worker recieves less radiation exposure in a YEAR than the average person will recieve on a sunny beach for a DAY!

Also as far as tapping our countries natural oil reserves goes, can I ask Why? Lets use up everyone elses first. It may cost a little now, but if we ever have to fuel an "all out war" against the middle eastern countries that supply our oil currently we have a reserve we can tap into. Also in the mean time if we were not buying our oil from the middle east then what relation would we have that would prevent them from declaring war on us!

As for depressed states and the revenues got from taxing oil goes, can you say the democrats in your state are giving it to all those unemployed people instead of giving it to industry so they can grow and hire more people!

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for my state, all i was referring to was that our state has had to cut basic public services like police and fire departments, not that the dems (who are in control and are doing some stupid things with money, but thats a whole other issue that is unrelated) are wasting it on welfare. my only point is that if the state were to tax gas more heavily, the extra cash flow isn't going to go to roads, but paying back the other state agencies that have had to take serious cuts.

also, i am so glad that you mentioned nuclear power. one of the best, cleanest forms of power available, but it is never talked about in the 'green power' discussions.

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Originally Posted by Warm-blooded

-Don't drive with the windows open at high speeds

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is this to reduce air drag or something? I've heard the other tips, but not this before. thanks!

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Here's a good article that CNN just posted:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/24/bec...ces/index.html

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you know, i've never been a huge fan of Glen Beck, but he does raise some great points. i had completely forgotten to put some blame on OPEC. while it seems that every one is ready to jump up and blame greedy ceo's, a lot of people forget that OPEC screws us not because they are greedy, even tho they are, but because the countries that that make up opec hate us!