Lucy's

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Originally Posted by Alice

Here's our BEL from a butter x butter. One of the whitest snakes I've ever seen!

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../adults076.jpg

We picked him up in August at Daytona from Mark and Kim Bell. He was only 250 grams - now he's up to 1016 grams and locking up with several ladies. I'm so proud of him . . . sniff sniff :gj:

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that is one gorgeous animal!

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Originally Posted by BChambers

Another WHITE snake-congratulations on him, and on getting him up to size in only six months:bow: !!!

Brad Chambers

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Thanks Brad! He definately never refuses a meal . . . we've fed him very small rats every 4-5 days since August. I've only had a few other snakes over the years with this growth pattern.

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Originally Posted by Brock Wagner

That BEL is smoking hot Alice. I am truly jealous. Now lets see some pictures of him locking up with the ladies.

Brock

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Thanks Brock! You should remember him - he's the one I was showing off to you at your table in Daytona. I've wanted a BEL for a few years . . . .

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Originally Posted by paul.angelides

Stunning BEL Alice, just puts another beautiful white snake into the pot. WOW on the weight, what you feeding him, steroids and rabbits :O All the very best with the breeding.
Paul

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Thanks Paul! Steroids for snakes . . . . hmmmmm . . . . I have a couple of females that could benefit from that. :D

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Originally Posted by Larry Suttles

Yup Alice that is one wicked awesome snake!!! Butter making factory..:bow:

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Thanks Larry! When I saw him on Mark and Kim's table in Daytona I just knew this was the one for me. He was the only purchase we made at Daytona this year, but boy was I excited about finding him. He is pied white . . . .

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Originally Posted by reediculous

that is one gorgeous animal!

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Thank you, thank you very much! ;)

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Originally Posted by Alice

Here's our BEL from a butter x butter. One of the whitest snakes I've ever seen!

We picked him up in August at Daytona from Mark and Kim Bell. He was only 250 grams - now he's up to 1016 grams and locking up with several ladies. I'm so proud of him . . . sniff sniff :gj:

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He's GORGEOUS Alice!!! :eyepoppin:eyepoppin:tongue2::eyepoppin:eyepoppin

Keep him busy! We may need to talk later. :D

Alice by far that is the number one stunna!!!! He took the thread over I should of put a butterx butter option on the poll. Are the lucy's from butters different than the lesser lucy's?

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Originally Posted by Emilio

Alice by far that is the number one stunna!!!! He took the thread over I should of put a butterx butter option on the poll. Are the lucy's from butters different than the lesser lucy's?

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Actually the Butter is yet ANOTHER morph that is considered part of the "platinum complex", and so can be bred to a lesser or mojo and produce BELs. Like Russo and FIRE, the Butter has a good rep for producing very white Lucys.....

Brad Chambers

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Originally Posted by BChambers

Actually the Butter is yet ANOTHER morph that is considered part of the "platinum complex", and so can be bred to a lesser or mojo and produce BELs. Like Russo and FIRE, the Butter has a good rep for producing very white Lucys.....

Brad Chambers

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Thanks I know the about the platinum complex I was just wondering if there's a difference between the two even if it's small. Butters are more yellow than lessers maybe this would affect the lucy a little.

I'm also curious about the differences between the Lesser BEL and the Butter BEL. I like the way Butters look, but do they affect the BEL?

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Originally Posted by bait4snake

I'm also curious about the differences between the Lesser BEL and the Butter BEL. I like the way Butters look, but do they affect the BEL?

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Good question. I know Butter BELs look very different than Mojo BELS but I have not seen a side-by-side comparison between a Lesser BEL, a combo BEL (Lesser/Mojo, Butter/Mojo, Lesser/Butter), and a Butter BEL. In fact, my BEL is the only one I've seen from a Butter.

I have seen numerous Lesser BELs, and I think, like other ball python morphs, there are sometimes color differences within the BELs from any "line" in the "platinum complex." Some of the Lesser BELs I've seen at the same time had some that were whiter than others, some had a more pronounced dorsal stripe, etc. and I would expect the same from any of the "lines" (Butter, Mojo, Russo, or a combo). As always, quality rules!

I snatched my BEL up as soon as I saw it since I do like the look of the Butter more than the Lesser, but there are still many unanswered questions and differing opinions about the BELs. For example, what do you get when you breed a combo BEL (let's use Lesser/Mojo) to a normal? Do you get just Lessers and Mojos or are there some normals in the clutch? Does the clutch contain another BEL? The answer, IMHO, depends on whether the BEL is a super form of the platimum complex snakes or another combo like a bumblebee. I think that a combo BEL is a super form from the "Platinum complex" but many well respected breeders disagree. This year should shed some light on many questions surrounding the BELs.

There are some BP.net members that have been working with Butters and Lessers for a while longer than I have and might be able to shed some light on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Alice

For example, what do you get when you breed a combo BEL (let's use Lesser/Mojo) to a normal? Do you get just Lessers and Mojos or are there some normals in the clutch? Does the clutch contain another BEL?

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That's basic genetics. You'll get Lessers and Mojos since the Lucy has a mutant allele from each parent and can pass along one or the other, the offspring will get either, but not both.

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Originally Posted by Alice

The answer, IMHO, depends on whether the BEL is a super form of the platimum complex snakes or another combo like a bumblebee. I think that a combo BEL is a super form from the "Platinum complex"

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I think it's obviously a super form of the platinum complex. I can't think of any combo morph that is so radically different from it's parents, but this kind of difference is common with codoms.

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Originally Posted by Alice

but many well respected breeders disagree.

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Who, and why?

you're saying that if lesser x mojave is considered a combo then breed them to normal and you have a chance to have another bel, lesser, mojave, and normal.

But if lesser x mojave is a super form, then breed them to normal and all you get are lesser and mojave(same concept as breeding super pastel to normal and you will get only pastel and nothing else.

I think lesser x mojave bel is a super form imo...whichever other platinum complex you put in a group.

The weird thing is how the heck russo het and Mocha can be mix into the group of platinum complex. I mean I know that they are in the platinum complex group. Those two morphs are totally different from Mojave, Lesser, Butter, Phantom. They look just like a normal for an untrained eye.

some combo do look very different from their based morph though. For example NERD's lesser x woma. And that's about it I can think of :D

I talked to Wes, formerly of MKR, and they bred their LesserXMojave BEL to 15 normals and got nothing but Lessers and Mojaves :) Just FYI

I have my own ideas about the "platinum complex"
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49935

Ralph just proved a major part of this theory too in his clutch 76. He bred two Plattys together and got a "normal"... if this theory is correct, then this is the only proveable Homozygous "Hidden" or "Dilute" gene. He's going to breed it to one of his Super Lesser BEL, and if the theory is correct, then all that will be produced is Plattys.

Hope this helps.

Oh, and thank you Alice for your opinions about the Butter vs the Lesser line. I guess all that really matters is what true Leucistic your Het comes from, be it a Butter or a Lesser. I do personally like Butters better because of the yellow, but I DO want the best white patternless snake.

It just goes to show... having a Lesser or a Butter doesn't guarantee you'll get the best Leucistic. Maybe we'll all start buying our Lessers and Butters based on what the Leucistic mother or father looks like.

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Originally Posted by bait4snake

I talked to Wes, formerly of MKR, and they bred their LesserXMojave BEL to 15 normals and got nothing but Lessers and Mojaves :) Just FYI.

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Good info, thanks

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Originally Posted by bait4snake

I have my own ideas about the "platinum complex"
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49935

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Very good info and solid theory. It helps that I agree with your position! lol

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Originally Posted by bait4snake

Ralph just proved a major part of this theory too in his clutch 76. He bred two Plattys together and got a "normal"... if this theory is correct, then this is the only proveable Homozygous "Hidden" or "Dilute" gene. He's going to breed it to one of his Super Lesser BEL, and if the theory is correct, then all that will be produced is Plattys.

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Interesting . . . I can't wait to see the results.

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Originally Posted by bait4snake

Oh, and thank you Alice for your opinions about the Butter vs the Lesser line. I guess all that really matters is what true Leucistic your Het comes from, be it a Butter or a Lesser. I do personally like Butters better because of the yellow, but I DO want the best white patternless snake.

It just goes to show... having a Lesser or a Butter doesn't guarantee you'll get the best Leucistic. Maybe we'll all start buying our Lessers and Butters based on what the Leucistic mother or father looks like.

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I agree that we should be buying based on the linage of the mother and father. Sorta like we do now with the G-Stripe.

wuz up cuz i dont know that much about this place yet

Anybody know anything about the Flame-(Super) that Amir is working with? Just saw the pictures Greg G posted on KS and that to me is the purest white Lucy I have seen! I can't find anymore info on it though.

From what I read it's a FIRE Black-Eyed or variant of same. More breeding needs to be done to determine that.

Black eyed all the way!

Thanks Brad. Time will tell if it's the same thing or not!

Im gonna say black eyed lucy's get my vote, love the random patches!!

-justin

I Love Leucy's

just want to confirm here that Lesser x Mojave BEL is not pure white.

But I love him very much!

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../3/2/bel_3.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/files/5/2/3/2/bel.jpg

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Originally Posted by hgrub

just want to confirm here that Lesser x Mojave BEL is not pure white.

But I love him very much!

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../3/2/bel_3.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/files/5/2/3/2/bel.jpg

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Wow still a beauty:rolleye2::gj:

Personally i LOVE Lucy's made by mojavexmojave. I was looking at the pictures of a recent show that came up and a M Bel had a Grey head, i loved it! I know i have a Lesser but i love them all.

I chose the Ivory morph because I have a yellowbelly on the way from VPI and will get a female to go with him shortly:) I love all white snakes, but I also love the little added character of color with Ivories....I would also love to see the pic of Kara's adult Ivory!!

I love the blue eyed looks awsome

What would a lesser and fire breeding produce?

My pick is "White Fire"
Produced from "Flame Hypo" bred back to its mom.
Its a black eyed Lucy that is Pied white.
http://photos.imageevent.com/ballpyt...size/lucy2.jpg

I love that snake Amir. Produce some more flame hypo's!

Brock

So now theres a black eyed lucy that is as white as a lesser X lesser?? I voted lesser X lesser only because of how clean they were but I might have a new fav! Are the pupils red?

Can someone explain flame hypo's never heard of them.

"Flame Hypo" is the name for my line of co-dom hypos.
They produce a black eyed lucy with no spots called "White Fire"
Here is a baby Flame Hypohttp://photos.imageevent.com/ballpyt...e/DSC00616.JPG

black eye! :banana::bow:

has anybody ever done a lesser x fire? would that produce white snakes or a more "buttery" lesser?

I voted lesserxlesser.. However I am aiming to make my own mojavexlesser

I've always been a big fan of the Lessers and the Lesser x Lesser Lucy's. Here are a few pics.

http://www.coreywoods.com/Lucy/LucyMales_8593.jpg

http://www.coreywoods.com/Lucy/LucyMales_8594.jpg

http://www.coreywoods.com/Lucy/LucyxLesser_0880.jpg

http://www.coreywoods.com/Lucy/LucyxLesser_0884.jpg

http://www.coreywoods.com/Lucy/LucyxLesser_0851.jpg

http://www.coreywoods.com/BallBreedi...tripe_0389.jpg

http://www.coreywoods.com/BallBreedi...S2008_1508.jpg

Corey

Thats some crazy stuff Corey.

Amir, I would love to hear and see some more of those flame hypos, looks like a very exciting project:gj:

Wow Corey killer animals.

wow Smokin Animals Corey!

:number1:

i like the ivory because they are white with a yellow line on the back of them!:gj:

definately blue eyes :)

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Originally Posted by TooManyToys

What would a lesser and fire breeding produce?

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From Ralph Davis' clutch 77 of last year From Ralph Davis' clutch 77 of last year

http://ralphdavisreptiles.com/images...lutch_77_8.jpg

I gotta go with black eyed. :banana:

I would choose the lesser x lesser. I think the blue eyes make for a much prettier :snake:

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/...C04311-med.jpg

I still like ivory !!!! Cause i'ad her :D
But i'll love all BEL :gj:

The Black Eye'd is my favorite but I want to make a Blue and a Black eyed :)

super mojo!!!

Ivory, it's the reason that my first snake was a yellow belly