Leopard gecko breeding questions

I was waiting to see what you guys thought about this. :D My first thought was that 2-3* variance is unlikely to make any difference, since nature certainly isn't totally consistent either. :gj: We seem to be on the same page- I've always tried for consistency within a few degrees when hatching snake eggs, & unfortunately I don't think anyone can say exactly at what point it's going to matter.

Awesome, thanks.

Since Lenetta will probably lay more eggs pretty soon here (if it's 15-21 days after the first clutch then she should lay between April 5 and 11), which I will want to incubate for females, will it mess anything up with the first eggs if I switch them from staying between 87.5 and 89.1 to staying between like... 81.5 and 83.1? At that point (15-21 days after being laid) will it change their gender or something? And if I do that, should I gradually change the temps or what?

Sex is determined in the first 3 weeks of incubation (according to Ron Tremper). So my opinion is that you should change the temperature for the next clutch to about 85*, about a half degree per day/a degree every 3 days starting when the clutch is laid, and then for the 3rd clutch change the temperature to 82* (assuming you want all of the following geckos to be females). That shouldn't be harmful to any of the eggs and it should increase the chances of females for each of the following clutches.

Awesome, thanks! I’ll let you know if I have any more questions and will keep you posted when the next clutch is laid!

Quick question (yeah, that didn't take long :)):

There's quite a bit of visible condensation on the inside of the egg boxes. Does that mean the air is too humid?

Condensation is normal and shows that the humidity is good. The only thing is that you don't want the condensation to land on the eggs. Tilting the egg box a tiny bit (like putting a small dowel or something under one side of the cup) so the water rolls down and falls on the substrate instead of the eggs would help. Other than that everything sounds great.

Awesome, thanks! I should expect the next clutch like 15-21 days after the first was laid, right?

also, I can see something that looks like an egg developing in Lenettas belly. It’s really small right now, but still…

Usually it's about 2-3 weeks, so hopefully you get more eggs soon!

The eggs were looking a little wet and one had a bit of green fungus on it, so I moved them to a box with .75 parts water to 1 part vermiculite. That was yesterday. Today, the fungus has not come back that I can see (I gently scraped it off).

I candled the eggs, and I'm not sure what it's supposed to look like. It's been 8 days since they were laid. When I candle them I see a faint red oval, but it's not as clear as it was when they were first laid. I also don't see the red dot in the middle. What should they look like at this stage?

Also, the outside of the shell was a little strange. It didn't look smooth like it had before. They looked like they had small cracks not actually open but really weird.

Being too wet and growing fungus are signs of too much moisture. So moving them to a new container with less water is one way to fix that. If they keep having problems adding a tiny pinhole or two for ventilation could help, but only if they continue having problems, they should be good now.

It sounds like the embryo is growing, it's best just to leave the eggs and not open the container much or candle the eggs, so I don't know what they should look like at this stage. I would bet that they are fine and continuing to grow.

It sounds like the outside of the egg has a covering of residue, maybe goo from laying or some dirt from when it was laid. It could also be from it drying out but if there's condensation on the sides of the container I doubt that's the problem.

Awesome, thanks! So I should not worry about the small cracks?

Also, Lenetta has two whitish eggs visible. Now that I've seen the process of egg development, I would say she'll probably lay in about 2 weeks. She could lay anytime between a week from now and two weeks from now, but they look kind of small to be laid on the sooner end of that. :D

I don't think the cracks are a problem. I don't think they are actually in the shell itself.

That's great! Keep us updated when you get more eggs.

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Originally Posted by Lizrd_boy

Awesome, thanks! So I should not worry about the small cracks?

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I wouldn't think so- anyway, nothing you can do about them. ;)

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Originally Posted by Erie_herps

That's great! Keep us updated when you get more eggs.

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:gj:

Okay, so after not checking on the eggs since Wednesday (don't ask me how. I'm pretty sure I'm going crazy) I opened up the incubator this morning and candled the eggs. One had mold growing on it (the same one with mold the first time) and it looked too wet, even tho the medium is reasonably dry. The other egg, in the same type of setup, looks fine. When I candled them the one with mold looked empty. No veins, just yellowish :(. It doesn't stink yet, so it's still incubating, but it doesn't look good. The other one has veins still, and doesn't look too wet. Also no mold.

Any ideas why one went bad? Am I doing something wrong, or was the embryo just not able to develop for some reason?

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Originally Posted by Lizrd_boy

Okay, so after not checking on the eggs since Wednesday (don't ask me how. I'm pretty sure I'm going crazy) I opened up the incubator this morning and candled the eggs. One had mold growing on it (the same one with mold the first time) and it looked too wet, even tho the medium is reasonably dry. The other egg, in the same type of setup, looks fine. When I candled them the one with mold looked empty. No veins, just yellowish :(. It doesn't stink yet, so it's still incubating, but it doesn't look good. The other one has veins still, and doesn't look too wet. Also no mold.

Any ideas why one went bad? Am I doing something wrong, or was the embryo just not able to develop for some reason?

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It just happens that way sometimes- internal defects & nothing preventable, most likely. Not every egg is able to hatch & the loss of an egg is much easier than the loss of a defective animal after it has managed to hatch & gotten your hopes up. Some losses are just part of breeding. The egg that appeared "wet" (or what I call "slimy") is typical of a non-viable egg, as is the yellowish interior when candled. Mold growth, as you know, is never a good sign, but when you candle eggs you usually get a more definite assessment, though not always the one you hoped for. ;)

Thanks. Is the defect likely to be the case with the other egg as well, or the next clutches she lays?

I met someone at Rexpo today who said that they used vermiculite for their leo eggs and it always made the eggs mold. She said she uses perlite and has had much better results. Should I try that for the next clutch?

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Originally Posted by Lizrd_boy

Thanks. Is the defect likely to be the case with the other egg as well, or the next clutches she lays?

I met someone at Rexpo today who said that they used vermiculite for their leo eggs and it always made the eggs mold. She said she uses perlite and has had much better results. Should I try that for the next clutch?

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I've only hatched snake eggs, & only with vermiculite, so I can't tell you much- only that vermiculite holds more water than perlite, & whether that was the real reason for the mold, or it was just a coincidence, I can't say. Most of us try things, & we stick with them when they work for us- your experience with the same things may be totally different.

Just like 2 cooks can follow the same recipe & their food turns out differently. Maybe she used too much water with the vermiculite & the eggs drowned, then molded. Impossible to know what went wrong there. It's often recommended to measure the water added but after the first time, I never did- I just always went by "feel" & did quite well. (I usually cook the same way. :D )

I wouldn't make any assumptions about the other egg, much less future clutches- I don't think I've ever had a clutch that hatched 100%. Nature just isn't perfect.

Ummm, so I just candled the egg and it was yellow but the side with mold on it had blood-red splotches and a dark spot in it. I took pictures, but I can't post them on here mostly because the file is too big. Here is a link to the one I was able to put in my gallery.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/sho...mageuser=85563

Is it OK for me to link to another forum where my pictures show up???

Oh, I just got it to show up on photobucket. Here's the link:

https://app.photobucket.com/u/yoyoyo...4-5a3a01057cd5

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Originally Posted by Lizrd_boy

...Is it OK for me to link to another forum where my pictures show up???

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Yes, as long as the other site doesn't include any objectionable material that may show up in your post inadvertently, either as content or ads. (This has happened before, that's why I mention it.)

Most here seem to prefer the Tapatalk app for posting pics. https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-Post-Pictures

So any ideas what's up with the egg?

The moldy egg was leaking and stinking this morning. I cut it open, there was a white blob that smells like dead tadpoles that have been rotting. I couldn't make out anything but the eyes :( https://ball-pythons.net/forums/imag...ABAAEAAAIBRAA7

Poor fella, but his sibling is still going strong!

Also, Lenetta should be laying eggs anytime before the 11th. A few days ago I checked and the eggs were getting larger, and now I can't see anything, except that her right fat body looks bigger than usual. Think I'm just not seeing it, or did she reabsorb the eggs?

Sorry for your loss. Sometimes we lose some but we learn from it and improve on our next clutches. We’ve all experienced it so you’re not alone. Good luck with the other eggs.

Sorry about that egg! It's not unusual for a first times females clutch to be weak eggs. Hopefully your other egg hatches good! I think you should be getting another clutch soon, it can be hard to see the eggs since there are also fat bodies and other organs, so I don't think she reabsorbed.

Update: The egg is still doing fine, no mold and doesn't seem too wet or dry, and there are plenty of veins when I candle it, and the seem to be getting bigger. I'm trying not to handle it too much, but I opened the incubator yesterday to put in cricket eggs (I'm trying to breed crickets and I'm trying different incubation methods. CHE, UTH, and incubator) and figured that while it was open I'd candle the egg. I didn't take it out, just opened it and put the flashlight by it. Showed me enough.

I can now see the eggs thru Lenetta's belly. I can see both of them, which, if it's anything like last time, means she'll probably lay in the next 3 days or so.

And I'm trying to stay busy to keep myself from going crazy over the eggs. I'm trying to breed crickets, starting breeding mealworms again, and getting an enclosure ready for the Asian forest scorpion I (hopefully) will be getting.

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Originally Posted by Lizrd_boy

Update: The egg is still doing fine, no mold and doesn't seem too wet or dry, and there are plenty of veins when I candle it, and the seem to be getting bigger. I'm trying not to handle it too much, but I opened the incubator yesterday to put in cricket eggs (I'm trying to breed crickets and I'm trying different incubation methods. CHE, UTH, and incubator) and figured that while it was open I'd candle the egg. I didn't take it out, just opened it and put the flashlight by it. Showed me enough.

I can now see the eggs thru Lenetta's belly. I can see both of them, which, if it's anything like last time, means she'll probably lay in the next 3 days or so.

And I'm trying to stay busy to keep myself from going crazy over the eggs. I'm trying to breed crickets, starting breeding mealworms again, and getting an enclosure ready for the Asian forest scorpion I (hopefully) will be getting.

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Isn't it cool to candle the eggs, especially when they're doing well? That's how I candle them too- in place, not touching or handling. And soon, with any luck, you'll have more! :gj:

This is all great! I really hope that you get lots of gecko babies. :D

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Originally Posted by Lizrd_boy

I'm trying to breed crickets, starting breeding mealworms again, and getting an enclosure ready for the Asian forest scorpion I (hopefully) will be getting.

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Not to derail the thread too much but when you bred mealworms in the past how did you collect the mealworms? I have a mealworm colony but I don't want to pick out each mealworm one by one and I haven't been able to get a filter to seperate the mealworms from the substrate. Also, if you get an AFS be sure to get a captive bred one or give it a thorough health check in person. I had an AFS but it died due to phorid fly maggots a few days after I got it, which is my fault for not checking that before I bought it.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Isn't it cool to candle the eggs, especially when they're doing well? That's how I candle them too- in place, not touching or handling. And soon, with any luck, you'll have more! :gj:

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Yeah, definately. The eggs are real easy to see thru her belly now, so I'm thinking they'll probably be laid soon. :)

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Originally Posted by Erie_herps

This is all great! I really hope that you get lots of gecko babies. :D

Not to derail the thread too much but when you bred mealworms in the past how did you collect the mealworms? I have a mealworm colony but I don't want to pick out each mealworm one by one and I haven't been able to get a filter to seperate the mealworms from the substrate. Also, if you get an AFS be sure to get a captive bred one or give it a thorough health check in person. I had an AFS but it died due to phorid fly maggots a few days after I got it, which is my fault for not checking that before I bought it.

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I put egg cartons (paper, not styrofoam) in the containers slightly buried in substrate. A lot of the worms either climbed into the cartons or hung out just below them. When I wanted to collect some I lifted the cartons and grabbed a handful of worms. You have to act quick or they'll just burrow underneath again. What are you giving them to drink? I gave mine apple slices and they also liked to hang out under them. Repeat checking under the stuff everyday for 5 days or so and you'll get most of the worms out. You'll end up getting mostly worms, but also some bedding, which isn't an issue since you'll want to put them in the fridge with a bit of bedding anyway. Just find out where yours hang out. I purposefully left a few in and continued feeding them and everything. I found that they usually turn into pupae on the surface so it's a lot easier to take them out than the worms that burrow. And if you miss any of those, they'll turn into beetles which are easily moved to the breeding container, usually before they lay eggs. Anyway, hope this helps and good luck!

I will definately go for a captive bred scorpion (or mostly anything, for that matter :)).

That's helpful. Thank you! I've been mainly feeding carrots and I can usually find a dozen around that. The next time I have worms I'll try these methods.

For separating, look into what are variously called 'potting mix sieves', 'panning sieves' or 'classifier screens'. For sifting out adult worms, 10 holes/inch works well. Twenty holes/inch works ok for getting the frass out of mini mealies (I use a lot of these for hatchling geckos) but a lot of the oat bran I use for food stays with the worms, so feeding only as much as the worms will eat by the time they'll need to be sifted out is important.

Temporarily putting the worms into a container that is taller rather than wider makes the worms congregate on the surface which can make it easier to simply pull some out. I typically just prop the container (I keep small batches of a couple thousand worms in Kritter Keepers in a fridge) up on end and that's enough to do it.

FWIW, I'm not breeding them but just separating fairly uniformly sized worms from bedding and carrot pieces -- I buy sized worms, as I used 105,000 mealworms in the last six months of 2021 (I just checked my records -- holy cow :)).

Thank you! I'm going to look into the sieves a bit more later but from what I found it looks like it would help. 100,000 mealworms is a lot, at my current rate I would use less than 10,000 mealworms in 6 months if I used them as a main staple (which I don't). :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

For separating, look into what are variously called 'potting mix sieves', 'panning sieves' or 'classifier screens'. For sifting out adult worms, 10 holes/inch works well. Twenty holes/inch works ok for getting the frass out of mini mealies (I use a lot of these for hatchling geckos) but a lot of the oat bran I use for food stays with the worms, so feeding only as much as the worms will eat by the time they'll need to be sifted out is important.

Temporarily putting the worms into a container that is taller rather than wider makes the worms congregate on the surface which can make it easier to simply pull some out. I typically just prop the container (I keep small batches of a couple thousand worms in Kritter Keepers in a fridge) up on end and that's enough to do it.

FWIW, I'm not breeding them but just separating fairly uniformly sized worms from bedding and carrot pieces -- I buy sized worms, as I used 105,000 mealworms in the last six months of 2021 (I just checked my records -- holy cow :)).

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Well, that is a few, isn't it? :O

Sooooo... here we are a day after the estimated time Lenetta would lay, and there are no eggs laid. She did dig out all of her vermiculite in her laying box last night, so I think she's getting ready to lay, but I'm not sure. She is also more sensitive to me touching her (I bumped her on accident when I was checking on her and she tried bolting away). How would I know if she's egg bound? I don't really think she is but I want to know what to look for.

Everything sounds normal. Try to avoid doing anything like feeding, handling, or bothering her until her eggs are laid. To see when she lays her eggs you could look at her and see if she looks thinner or just check the lay box once or twice a day. I wouldn't worry about egg binding unless there are other symptoms like lethargy.

Great, thanks! I'll check her once or twice a day until she lays. Kinda hard not to touch her since I can't see into her warm hide without moving it and I have to move her since I don't want to set it down on her tail, but I'll try not to touch her much.

For the past hour or so she has been sticking her head out her warm hide and closing her eyes. Does this mean anything? She does it sometimes anyway, but right now I'm hyper-observant lol

As long as you're not really stressing her out that should be fine. It sounds like she's just resting or basking, it doesn't sound like a sign of anything.

Good news! Lenetta laid her eggs today! I saw her lay them and took them out immediately. I candled them right away and one looked fertile while the other didn't but I candled them 45 minutes later and the embryo was visible in both. So now I got three eggs in the incubator! While it was open I candled the one I already had and it was doing good. I could see several veins and there was a pinkish red glow.

That's great! This is super exciting! Did you change any of the incubation temperatures?

Since the other one from the first clutch died I decided not to. Even if all three are males, I have enough room to keep them seperately and some of my friends want a leopard just as a pet and don't care if it's male or female. I want a male so I can breed him with Lea when he's old enough, so this way I'll probably get at least one. And if it get more, I get first pick :D

Okay so I opened the incubator today (I wasn't going to but my dad wanted his thermometer back lol) and while it was open I candled the eggs. the youngest are doing good, embryos are easier to spot and are near/at the top. The oldest one has had the pink glow for the past few days/weeks, but it's less defined now, mostly because of a dark shadow curled up in part of the egg, juuuust about the size of a baby gecko (hmmm, I wonder why :)). I'm guessing it's the baby?

It's pretty exciting to see eggs laid, then developing & finally hatching into adorable creatures, isn't it? :) It never gets 'old' for me either. :gj:

Yeah. This is my first time and I'm not thinking Ill be quiting anytime soon :). the leopard gecko addiction moves to it's next stage...

The dark mass that you see is the baby. Usually when it gets to that stage it's close to hatching. That's super exciting and I can't wait for baby pictures!

Cool! I can’t wait for it to hatch.

And I got plenty to feed him… my crickets hatched the other day and I got like 200 pinheads loose in my incubator. Took me about an hour to get them out lol. Anyway, if the egg hatches in 2-3 weeks the cricket la will be juuust the right size.

Okay, so I candled the oldest egg last night, and there were tons of veins in the top, and at the bottom there was a dark shape, and then the dark spot MOVED!!! I can't wait for it to hatch, should be in a week or two, assuming that a 90 the incubation lasts 35 days so staying between 87.5* and 89* should hatch in maybe 45 days? I'm so excited, can't wait to have a little gecko!

That's super exciting (or should I say egg-citing, lol)! You should have a little leo baby super soon!

About hatchling care... I was planning on keeping the babies seperately in plastic shoebox containers with paper towels, a water dish, and a hide and heat it to 90* with UTHs under the container. I was talking to someone else who breeds leopard geckos, and she said that a UTH isn't safe for hatchlings??? It's gonna be on a tstat so I thought that would be fine, but will it? I mean, this person also uses calcium sand in some of her reptiles tanks, so I don't particularly trust every little thing she says, but I just want to get a second opinion.

Also, should I leave the heat in the hatchlings containers on set to 90* for 24/7, or should I drop lower at night like I do with the adults?