Is live feeding really that dangerous?

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

As far as more time interacting with my snakes, absolutely I want more! Just not on feeding day when they're hungry and primed for dinner haha. I keep interaction on that day to a minimum, only feeding and any other immediate stuff that needs to be addressed like changing out soiled substrate. My girls are curious, rather out going for bps, and have a great feeding response, so I take a couple extra precautions to minimize accidental bites. Interaction is great for me, but the snakes could care less, and really probably do better without it.

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It's because the snakes don't particularly enjoy handling that feeding day is one of my favorites. They're honed in on the prey so I get to interact without them paying me much mind. I only have a couple snakes that get "messed" with on any regular basis other than general maintenance and this usually involves me lugging hem outdoors for some exploration enrichment.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I wasn't actively campaigning anything ... To be fair my question was aimed at Debs as she's feeding 250 + live each time and as you're supposed to be watching closely I couldn't see how this was possible - basic math.

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Here's my f/t feeding routine:
1) Open enclosure
2) Grab rodent
3) Plop, jiggle, slide, dance, whatever method that snake requires to hit the rodent
4)Close enclosure

Here's my live feeding route:
1) Open enclosure
2) Grab rodent
3) Place rodent in enclosure
4)Close enclosure

The only difference is when I hear the hit on the live I take a couple seconds for a visual check to make sure the grab is clean.

So what's the procedure for live feeding ?

Wait around until the rodent is in the jaws or dead or half swallowed. ??

It all seems a bit hazy ... which is why I suspect that some just throw in a live rodent and leave things to go from there ..

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

So do you have to watch over each snake until its eaten the prey safely ??

That must take much longer than simply defrosting and offering .

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Nope it does not

I open the tub and the rat is snatched immidiately often in mid air without having the time to hit the enclosure ' floor. (That's what solid routine and pre-scenting does)

I also have no issue moving on to the next tub as rats are not those evil creatures that will attack a snake and gnowl on it for the next 5 to 10 min and kill it. (That's what a stress free well fed and hydrated rodent does, just sit in the corner) - All uneaten preys (rare occurance) are removed within 10 min)

Again never had an issue with and ut's not luck 1000's of owner do the same including big breeders, mist people just don't share their experience because for some it's a sensitive issue and they cannot debate it rationally.

I am not promoting live feeding I could not care less what people feed, I answer the questions on live feeding based on MY experience which people who call live feeding reckless and dangerous rarely have (it's based on hearsay and graphic pucture that do not reflect responsible live feeding)

Live is not for everyone but if someone is comtempling it they should get answers based on experience and decide for themselves.

For the record I also feed F/T (All colubrids are fed F/T mice )

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Originally Posted by rlditmars

You could pick up one of those mini fridges the college kids use that are like 24" X 24". it wouldn't take up much space and it could be used exclusively for your stuff so the Hubby won't be offended.

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I have one but was planning on converting it into an incubator :D

Plus with two snakes it seems a waste to take up a whole mini fridge just to defrost two rats once a week. I'm sure once the collection grows it'll become more efficient to do it that way, but rn a cup of cold water is plenty.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Nope it does not

I open the tub and the rat is snatched immidiately often in mid air without having the time to hit the enclosure ' floor. (That's what solid routine and pre-scenting does)

I also have no issue moving on to the next tub as rats are not those evil creatures that will attack a snake and gnowl on it for the next 5 to 10 min and kill it. (That's what a stress free well fed and hydrated rodent does, just sit in the corner) - All uneaten preys (rare occurance) are removed within 10 min)

Again never had an issue with and ut's not luck 1000's of owner do the same including big breeders, mist people just don't share their experience because for some it's a sensitive issue and they cannot debate it rationally.

I am not promoting live feeding I could not care less what people feed, I answer the questions on live feeding based on MY experience which people who call live feeding reckless and dangerous rarely have (it's based on hearsay and graphic pucture that do not reflect responsible live feeding)

Live is not for everyone but if someone is comtempling it they should get answers based on experience and decide for themselves.

For the record I also feed F/T (All colubrids are fed F/T mice )

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To be fair , I don't think anybody believes that rats are ' evil snake assassins ' who will stalk and hunt down the poor snake in the viv . I'd guess that they will try and defend themselves if they're cornered .... I'm sure they don't ALL grab hold on the first strike especially some of the albinos who appear to have slightly dodgy eyesight ..

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

...especially some of the albinos who appear to have slightly dodgy eyesight ..

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I've seen this thought brought up a few times and for some reason there's never further discussion. The albino BP eyesight line of thought, when it comes to striking, is made to be more than it should be. ALL ball pythons have poor eyesight in relation to their other senses. Their eyes help them to navigate their surroundings, but when it comes to hunting their heat pits play a far more important role. Since they primarily emerge from their burrows at night to hunt for their prey, they essentially "see" prey with their heat pits rather than their eyes (both senses are processed in the same part of their brains).

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

I've seen this thought brought up a few times and for some reason there's never further discussion. The albino BP eyesight line of thought, when it comes to striking, is made to be more than it should be. ALL ball pythons have poor eyesight in relation to their other senses. Their eyes help them to navigate their surroundings, but when it comes to hunting their heat pits play a far more important role. Since they primarily emerge from their burrows at night to hunt for their prey, they essentially "see" prey with their heat pits rather than their eyes (both senses are processed in the same part of their brains).

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I'm sure you're right although Albino royals have a much poorer strike rate than the non- albinos in my experience - I have a young Pastel Royal who simply NEVER misses

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I'm sure you're right although my Albino royals have a much poorer strike rate than the non- albinos in my experience

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Maybe you just have some "derpy" albinos! :P

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Maybe you just have some "derpy" albinos! :P

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Yeah that's certainly possible although I'm pretty sure all albinos ( inc humans ) have slightly defective vision ...

My Black garter snake will be munching on chunks of fish whilst the three Albino Garters will regularly have their jaws firmly wrapped around the edge of the glass feeding dish :). ( I have pix and vids of this strange phenomen ! )

I don't have albino BPs, but my albino garters definitely don't seem to see as well as my non-albinos. They rely a little more on their vision than BPs do though.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

So what's the procedure for live feeding ?

Wait around until the rodent is in the jaws or dead or half swallowed. ??

It all seems a bit hazy ... which is why I suspect that some just throw in a live rodent and leave things to go from there ..

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I watch with a pair of tongs ready to intervene until the rodent is dead- usually less than two minutes after the rodent gets put in. Once it's dead I close up the enclosure and let my snake do her thing. All in all, less time spent than trying to get some of my more picky f/t eaters to eat. I don't pre-scent the room or anything. My BP is the only snake I have that eats live, so I've only got a year or two worth of live-feeding experience, but there has never been more than about 60 seconds between the rodent going into the enclosure and her striking it, and she's had some less than ideal strikes, but never to the extent that she can't still coil and kill the prey. I'm sure some people don't monitor the feeding that closely, but when I give someone info on live feeding I recommend monitoring until the prey is dead. If someone has enough experience with live-feeding that they don't feel the need to do that, then that's up to them, but for people new to it I always recommend watching until the prey is dead.

It's dangerous all right. For the mice!

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Originally Posted by beeze

I feed my BP live. He will not take f/t. I have tried so many times. He will go as far as laying on top of the f/t to show me he isn't having it. Live is what I use, I can't bring myself to stun or kill his food on my own. I monitor him the whole time he is feeding. Once he starts to ingest his food, then I give him his privacy, but still check on him. Some snakes are picky, mine is one of them. I also feel like allowing him to have live lets him retain some of his natural instincts. I too have read horror stories, but if the live feeding is done with care and diligence, I don't see anything wrong with it. I feed my BP, atm, live adult feeder mice or rat fuzzies if the pet store in town has them. I've not run into any trouble. Granted, my snake is not at the size to take larger meals yet, but, I don't think I will be switching to f/t any time soon.

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My snake is the exact same. I also tried more than once and it didn't eat one. But it has eaten almost 10 live mice. Well, they were alive before she expertly killed em. It kills them in the hide or just outside the hide most the time, but has come out of the hide to pursue one. I peak in till I hear that squeal ( from the bite ) Aside from the bite I don't think the prey suffers much it struggles till it goes unconscious then into a sleep of death. My future concern is getting the rat out of the enclosure if it isn't eaten without getting bite by a rat which can be serious for me I hear. ( Rat bite fever ) It is no problem or worry with mice, and I use rubber/cloth gloves. Can some of you very experienced feeders tell me how to safely retrieve a live rat out of the enclosure. This is where keeping the rat calm becomes even more important. For my sake and the snakes as well.
I have a 10 gal aquarium to keep the live mouse (or some day rat) alive and well till I try to re-feed. I don't really want to go to rat but feeding mice might get very expensive when the snake gets larger. Please give me and others reading any advice you wish to help me concerning the putting in and possible having to remove the live rat.

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Originally Posted by ballpythonsrock2

Can some of you very experienced feeders tell me how to safely retrieve a live rat out of the enclosure.

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Leather work gloves. Never used them with a rodent, but I've done rescue/rehab for possums before, and if those gloves can stand up to a 20 pound, angry, wild animal, I imagine they'd stand up to a bite from a tame rat.

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Originally Posted by tbowman

I feed my f/t dripping wet, I'd be willing to bet that the snakes get a considerably higher amount of hydration this way than what comes from a live rodent.

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Dripping wet? Do you put them in water to thaw, or is that just from them thawing out ?

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Originally Posted by ballpythonsrock2

Dripping wet? Do you put them in water to thaw, or is that just from them thawing out ?

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Thaw in water.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

I thaw and heat my rats in water anyway, which I know a lot of other people do, so the whole moisture loss issue seems nil. I have seen a lot of anecdata from breeders regarding snakes gaining more on live than frozen, but I think it all balances out in the end. I feel over all body tone and condition is much more important than numbers in weight.

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I want to thank very much Liz and also DVirginiana and the others for taking their time here in this thread and with pm's to explain to me the way they feed their snakes. Both of them gave me very smart, helpful advice. And I needed all the help I could get in making the decision whether to stay with live or go to f/t and I think they both have given me the info I need to make the decision. Of course a bit of that decision will be up to my snakes thoughts on the matter. :snake: Thank You Liz and DVirginiana

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Originally Posted by ballpythonsrock2

I want to thank very much Liz and also DVirginiana and the others for taking their time here in this thread and with pm's to explain to me the way they feed their snakes. Both of them gave me very smart, helpful advice. And I needed all the help I could get in making the decision whether to stay with live or go to f/t and I think they both have given me the info I need to make the decision. Of course a bit of that decision will be up to my snakes thoughts on the matter. :snake: Thank You Liz and DVirginiana

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No problem, it's what we're here for! :gj: