Honest opinions on feeding.

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Originally Posted by earthwormjim

I have a new adult male BP, The first time I fed him I gave him a medium rat, (the biggest one the breeder had). He took it like a champ and had no issues. He was still searching around like he was looking for more food so I figured I would try to feed him again. After several hours of research and forums I decided that, for health benefits and safety, I would switch him to frozen. I bought a pack of two frozen rats from pets mart. I unthawed one in hot water, it came in a small plastic bag. After it was unthawed and at a good temp I tried to offer it to him, he showed zero interest in it and would move away. I spent 2 hours trying different methods of giving it to him.

I absolutely hated the process, it smelled terrible, two of the legs came off of the rat, and it was leaking all over the place. I was told that the rat could have been bad. I also realize he may not have been hungry. Either way 13 bucks for two medium rats that may be bad is outrageous, and the whole process was horrid.

My question is, how terrible is it for me to feed him live? I understand the risks but the breeder is very reliable and has shown me her entire setup and how she breeds her rats. I can buy a large rat for 5 bucks from her, and she has them readily available at all times. I was scolded by several people for feeding live and they made valid arguments, but I stand right by him and watch the entire process so of anything ever did happen I could intervene.
I would like to keep feeding live but from what I have been told and read so far it seems like a bad idea, at the same time he has always had live and the frozen feed was terrible. What are your opinions on it?

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Try scenting the area with a live rat in a cage for half and hour while the other ones thaw. Now, after that if he still rejects it, give a smaller live prey before and then a f/t regular sized

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Wow....I am thinking that Zincubus just enjoys arguing.

In my limited experience with breeding rats and feeding live...the rats are not threatened in the slightest by the presence of the snake. As already mentioned most will either go right to the snake and sniff it or just walk around the enclosure, heck I even had a few that would crawl right on top of a snake! Most captive bred rats don't even know to feel threatened by a snake.

I personally don't feed live anymore because I hate the smell and how dirty they are. I also only have a few snakes.

A look through my old posts on this forum years ago will show attempts to preach about the evils of live feeding. Even now, I consider myself to be against it.

BUT, I've realized now that it was all the result of those few pictures of what COULD HAPPEN. That convinced me that feeding live was evil and the people doing it were not into snakes for the right reasons.

In reality those situations are an extreme minority. And it's worth noting that the majority of those cases manifested due to a keeper leaving a large, live rodent in with a snake THAT IS NOT INTERESTED IN EATING.

Short answer, don't do that and you will be ok.

the only 3 reasons why I want my BP's to eat F/T are

1* It saves a lot of time, not having to stand and keep an eye on every bp till he/she takes the prey.
2* By feeding F/T I can buy in bulk and I do not have to go to the shop every week.
3* Where I live F/T are cheaper then live prey items.

That being said, I do breed my own rats, if I would feed all my snakes live prey i would have to keep all the rats alive, meaning loss of a lot of space for cages, money on food and bedding and time for cleaning all the rat cages. now I just humanely kill them when they are at the right size and then freeze them.

I do breed my own rats so I know where they come from, that they are healthy, that they get good quality food and that the rats are taken good care of because even though I understand it may sound kinda weird and twisted I do like the rats that breed for me as my pets.

Man this troll again! Didn't we already have this thread a few weeks ago...?

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Originally Posted by SnakeBalls

Man this troll again! Didn't we already have this thread a few weeks ago...?

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Seems rather bizarre to suggest that someone ( whoever you're referring to ) is a troll simply because they have the nerve to offer an honest opinion as per thread title .

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Originally Posted by Mykuhl

Wow....I am thinking that Zincubus just enjoys arguing.

In my limited experience with breeding rats and feeding live...the rats are not threatened in the slightest by the presence of the snake. As already mentioned most will either go right to the snake and sniff it or just walk around the enclosure, heck I even had a few that would crawl right on top of a snake! Most captive bred rats don't even know to feel threatened by a snake.

I personally don't feed live anymore because I hate the smell and how dirty they are. I also only have a few snakes.

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Actually , you couldn't be more wrong about me ... I detest threads like this , very intimidating if you find yourself in the minority .

We simply don't live feed over here in the UK apart from last resort to try and trigger a feeding response from a hatchling or a youngster ..

It's probably a cultural thing as I said previously . The thread asks for honest opinions but look at the reaction you get for being honest !

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Originally Posted by SnakeBalls

Man this troll again! Didn't we already have this thread a few weeks ago...?

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Wow . A member for just four weeks and with 52 posts and you're coming out with all this nonsense .
I despair .

- - - Updated - - -

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Originally Posted by SnakeBalls

Man this troll again! Didn't we already have this thread a few weeks ago...?

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Wow . A member for just four weeks and with 52 posts and you're coming out with all this nonsense .
I despair .

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

We simply don't live feed over here in the UK apart from last resort to try and trigger a feeding response from a hatchling or a youngster ..

It's probably a cultural thing as I said previously . The thread asks for honest opinions but look at the reaction you get for being honest !

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Not about you being honest, more about ignorant.
You need to remember this forum is WORLD wide.
If you are not willing to learn, expand your knowledge and understand there are more ways than just your own (or your google knowledge) then sometime it would be best to just sit back and watch.;)

***And Yes, there are many posts I don't comment on just because I know where it will lead. I'm smart like that.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Wow . A member for just four weeks and with 52 posts and you're coming out with all this nonsense .
I despair.

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Length of time as a member doesn't change anything as far as their knowledge OR comprehension to other members previous posts/actions. :rofl:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Not about you being honest, more about ignorant.
You need to remember this forum is WORLD wide.
If you are not willing to learn, expand your knowledge and understand there are more ways than just your own (or your google knowledge) then sometime it would be best to just sit back and watch.;)

***And Yes, there are many posts I don't comment on just because I know where it will lead. I'm smart like that.

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So now I'm ignorant as well .
Apart from all the reasons I've given the main thing from my point is that I myself simply couldn't hurt a living thing . I even pick up worms off the pavement (sidewalk ) so they don't get trodden on .

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Length of time as a member doesn't change anything as far as their knowledge OR comprehension to other members previous posts/actions. :rofl:

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Then again you wouldn't start a new job and start making instant changes or throwing your weight around until you'd been there for a while ... or would you ?

ig·no·rant /ˈiɡnərənt/ adjective: ignorant
lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.

And yes I would, wouldn't be the first time.:gj:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I myself simply couldn't hurt a living thing

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Your snake doesn't share your same concerns.

The problem is not that you advocate and prefer feeding FT, it's that you make it sound like it's completely irresponsible and horrificly dangerous for anyone to even contemplate feeding live. You take pictures of events that happen 1 in 1 million or 5 million times and try to portray them as something that happens all the time and anyone feeding live is continually putting their animal at great risk, when nothing could really be further from the truth.

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Originally Posted by 200xth

Your snake doesn't share your same concerns.

The problem is not that you advocate and prefer feeding FT, it's that you make it sound like it's completely irresponsible and horrificly dangerous for anyone to even contemplate feeding live. You take pictures of events that happen 1 in 1 million or 5 million times and try to portray them as something that happens all the time and anyone feeding live is continually putting their animal at great risk, when nothing could really be further from the truth.

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Tbh the living ' thing' I was referring to was the poor rodent not the snake ( who is also at risk , of course ).

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Tbh the living ' thing' I was referring to was the poor rodent not the snake ( who is also at risk , of course ).

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Now you've lost me. You've posted ad nauseam regarding the "dangers of feeding live prey" with the premise that it will cause inevitable harm to the snake it's being fed to. Now, you seem to be more concerned with the well-being of the prey itself. The end result, for the rodent, is the same regardless of what form it's in when it goes into the snake tub. Putting the live feeding debate aside, you're in the wrong hobby if you can't come to terms with the purpose that rodents serve in this community.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Actually , you couldn't be more wrong about me ... I detest threads like this , very intimidating if you find yourself in the minority .

We simply don't live feed over here in the UK apart from last resort to try and trigger a feeding response from a hatchling or a youngster ..

It's probably a cultural thing as I said previously . The thread asks for honest opinions but look at the reaction you get for being honest !

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The problem is that your opinion is not based on actual experience and it's not an opinion you are strongly advocating against live using all the same pictures and non sense that other pro f/t feeders have before you.

We don't advocate against f/t feeding we try to educate people about their choices rather than scaring them off.

Again your experience/advocating has ZERO credibility and is based on hear says (the one you chose to listen to) and pictures which all have a back story.

So yes you can share your opinion but don't expect people not to question it.

BTW there are many people feeding f/t on this very forum, the difference they are knowledgeable and open minded about their choices.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Now you've lost me. You've posted ad nauseam regarding the "dangers of feeding live prey" with the premise that it will cause inevitable harm to the snake it's being fed to. Now, you seem to be more concerned with the well-being of the prey itself. The end result, for the rodent, is the same regardless of what form it's in when it goes into the snake tub. Putting the live feeding debate aside, you're in the wrong hobby if you can't come to terms with the purpose that rodents serve in this community.

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Not really , I love meat but I certainly couldn't kill anything myself .

Hey Zinc, you gotta learn to stop trying to eat your whole foot, it can't taste very good. You have a bad habit of wording opinions as fact claims, and then responding to disagreements with those claims as though they were ad hominem attacks on your person. That's not a good way to establish a reputation as a stable, knowledgeable and respectable individual on a forum.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Hey Zinc, you gotta learn to stop trying to eat your whole foot, it can't taste very good. You have a bad habit of wording opinions as fact claims, and then responding to disagreements with those claims as though they were ad hominem attacks on your person. That's not a good way to establish a reputation as a stable, knowledgeable and respectable individual on a forum.

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Wording as fact ?

Examples please

My opinion on live feeding remains the same . I feel it's cruel towards the rodents and it also puts the snake at risk . It's not as though I'm alone in these views to be fair as in the UK - it's the norm to feed dead as opposed to live.
Funny thing is there are so many in here supporting the feeding of live rodents and justifying it by saying that the risks are LOW .
Thing is I don't want LOW risk when feeding ... I prefer ZERO risks .

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

My opinion on live feeding remains the same . I feel it's cruel towards the rodents and it also puts the snake at risk . It's not as though I'm alone in these views to be fair

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You're allowed to have those opinions and feed f/t but when you accuse other people of animal cruelty and endangerment for feeding live, especially when you have nothing but a google search to back you up, you've got to expect some pushback.

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

You're allowed to have those opinions and feed f/t but when you accuse other people of animal cruelty and endangerment for feeding live, especially when you have nothing but a google search to back you up, you've got to expect some pushback.

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That was just one 5 second search result . There are thousands more and many horrific YouTube vids as well .

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

My opinion on live feeding remains the same . I feel it's cruel towards the rodents and it also puts the snake at risk . It's not as though I'm alone in these views to be fair

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And that's fine, nobody is asking you to feed live, nobody is insisting that feeding live is the only correct way. I would venture to say that the majority of people who keep a few snakes as pets feed frozen. It's a cheap and effective way to feed your snakes when you don't breed your own rodents. It's just that you come on a bit strong in defending a position that is not based on experience and have stated as fact something that is not born out by the experiences of people who DO feed live regularily.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I prefer ZERO risks .

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Then you are going to live a life doing absolutely nothing.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

That was just one 5 second search result . There are thousands more and many horrific YouTube vids as well .

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There are also thousands and thousands of results for burns, but no one claims it's a bad idea to use a UTH because some people do it improperly.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

That was just one 5 second search result . There are thousands more and many horrific YouTube vids as well .

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That's BS.

Taking events so rare as to be meaningless and attempting to portray them as commonplace to defend your view is disingenuous.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

My opinion on live feeding remains the same . I feel it's cruel towards the rodents and it also puts the snake at risk . It's not as though I'm alone in these views to be fair as in the UK - it's the norm to feed dead as opposed to live.
Funny thing is there are so many in here supporting the feeding of live rodents and justifying it by saying that the risks are LOW .
Thing is I don't want LOW risk when feeding ... I prefer ZERO risks .

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That does not exist nothing is ZERO risk not even F/T there are risk too when not done RESPONSIBLY which is all it also boil down to regardless of the method you are choosing.

Again not supporting one or the other (I actually do both) but educating about both, being knowledgeable about both and experienced regarding both.

With YOU it's demonizing, uneducated and inexperience views.................see the difference yet :confusd:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

That was just one 5 second search result . There are thousands more and many horrific YouTube vids as well .

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I'd like to take a brief timeout here to share how horrified I am of youtube videos of things like this. Oh, my snake is being mauled by a rat? Let's keep the film rolling and see how it goes. My hognose is EATING itself? This video will have so many hits!

*Cringe*

If your snake is in very obvious and preventable danger, put down the camera and stop it. I would not take a word of husbandry advice from a person who allowed harm to come to their animal and sat there filming through it.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I prefer ZERO risks .

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Maybe you need to use your google and see how many reptiles die from eating F/T that wasn't warmed up properly or enough.

Ah well , alls well that ends well .

I've recently noticed a few other threads and posts on the same issue and whilst they have supported live feeding they have emphasised the need to observe proceedings carefully and don't just leave the rodent in and leave them to it . So that's some progress .

Other than that I'll just have to learn to keep my honest opinions to myself , I guess .
Duly noted .

I believe that part of Zinc's deal whether he will admit it or not is that he wants to be detached from the kill, the death at hand.

When you feed F/T, your mind tells you that you are feeding "food". It's not live, so it's not bad, as if it is not even an animal. But SOMEONE had to kill that rat!

I don't enjoy feeding live. My snake is 12 yrs old. Thus set in her ways. She refuses F/K. She is not going to change.

I hate observing the kill. The look on the rats face. It WAS so cute crawling around just seconds ago.

But guess what, nature, the animal kingdom is a slaughterhouse. Why do you think they call it a food chain. If you have spent time in the woods, I mean really spent time, animals are horrific to each other. Or I'm sure you've seen the nature shows.

So when I feed live, I know that it is nature's way. That way I do not let it upset me.

And of course, I monitor the kill and frequently peek in on the ingestion process.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Ah well , alls well that ends well .
I'll just have to learn to keep my honest opinions to myself , I guess .
Duly noted .

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You shouldnt even call it your opinion when you have no experiance with other options.
Dont go away mad.........

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Originally Posted by Reinz

I believe that part of Zinc's deal whether he will admit it or not is that he wants to be detached from the kill, the death at hand.

When you feed F/T, your mind tells you that you are feeding "food". It's not live, so it's not bad, as if it is not even an animal. But SOMEONE had to kill that rat!

I don't enjoy feeding live. My snake is 12 yrs old. Thus set in her ways. She refuses F/K. She is not going to change.

I hate observing the kill. The look on the rats face. It WAS so cute crawling around just seconds ago.

But guess what, nature, the animal kingdom is a slaughterhouse. Why do you think they call it a food chain. If you have spent time in the woods, I mean really spent time, animals are horrific to each other. Or I'm sure you've seen the nature shows.

So when I feed live, I know that it is nature's way. That way I do not let it upset me.

And of course, I monitor the kill and frequently peek in on the ingestion process.

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Yes of course you have a valid point / I've already admitted that I simply couldn't feed a living creature to one of my snakes but that would still be the case even if there were ZERO risks to my snakes ..

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Originally Posted by Reinz

But guess what, nature, the animal kingdom is a slaughterhouse. Why do you think they call it a food chain. If you have spent time in the woods, I mean really spent time, animals are horrific to each other. Or I'm sure you've seen the nature shows.

So when I feed live, I know that it is nature's way. That way I do not let it upset me.

And of course, I monitor the kill and frequently peek in on the ingestion process.

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Maybe it comes from growing up in the middle of nowhere with a family that used to raise food animals, but seeing the kill has never bothered me.
Even so some of my family that own snakes (colubrids) can't stomach the idea of feeding live. I see how it can be really disturbing for some people though.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

You shouldnt even call it your opinion when you have no experiance with other options.
Dont go away mad.........

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It's fine , I'm not angry or anything .. I understand that live feeding is accepted as the norm in the USA .. We're just programmed differently over here .

I don't take kindly to being called a troll or ignorant though .

I have mentioned elsewhere that I suffer from Aspergers and regularly misread a sentence or even misunderstand something . I also hate being slighted and tend to react badly ..

Apologies to anyone I may have annoyed unknowingly .

I am interested in hearing your opinions on this subject when it comes to feeding the larger snakes. Surely one would think the risk would go up quite a bit when the prey in question is an adult bunny? I would think it would make things quite a bit riskier for the keeper too.

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Originally Posted by tbowman

I am interested in hearing your opinions on this subject when it comes to feeding the larger snakes. Surely one would think the risk would go up quite a bit when the prey in question is an adult bunny? I would think it would make things quite a bit riskier for the keeper too.

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Interesting take on the topic.

I'd be more wary of an adult rat than a rabbit but someone will soon shed some light on the situation , hopefully.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

It's fine , I'm not angry or anything .. I understand that live feeding is accepted as the norm in the USA .. We're just programmed differently over here .

I don't take kindly to being called a troll or ignorant though .

I have mentioned elsewhere that I suffer from Aspergers and regularly misread a sentence or even misunderstand something . I also hate being slighted and tend to react badly ..

Apologies to anyone I may have annoyed unknowingly .

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Maybe you need to read the definition of ignorant. Not knowing is one thing and stupid is another.
As far as your other problems, its your choice to post on a public forum.
I am not going to sugar coat anything with anyone here.
Never have and never will.

My parents used to raise rabbits when I was younger. They have the potential to be more dangerous to a keeper than a rat, but if bred properly should react by freezing up, not by getting aggressive.
I imagine the danger to the snake would stay about the same if not less (since an 18 ft burm is proportionally bigger compared to a rabbit than a BP is compared to a rat), but that's pure conjecture on my part since I've never worked with any of the larger snakes.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

It's fine , I'm not angry or anything .. I understand that live feeding is accepted as the norm in the USA .. We're just programmed differently over here .

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Maybe it's time for reprogramming, questioning what you are being told through demonizing and try for yourself to make an INFORMED opinion.

By the way I am French and the view in France about live feeding is the same as the one in the UK, the difference is I questioned it which is part of the learning process in general.

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Originally Posted by tbowman

I am interested in hearing your opinions on this subject when it comes to feeding the larger snakes. Surely one would think the risk would go up quite a bit when the prey in question is an adult bunny? I would think it would make things quite a bit riskier for the keeper too.

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I only keep a couple of burms that I've had for about 10 years so haven't gone through as many feeders as I have with the balls. I've fed rats both live and frozen/thawed. It didn't seem to make any difference, when feeding rats they hit their food so fast and hard that the rat didn't even have a chance to blink. I generally just feed frozen/thawed because it's easier for me. I've tried rabbits but the burms didn't even recognize them as food. I've never tried a live rabbit but can't see that they'd do anything but ignore it. The last time I tried feeding a rabbit to one of my burms I actually used a needle strung with dental floss to sew a dead rat onto the head of a dead rabbit (yup, it was pretty gross). The burm grabbed the rat and started swallowing it, when the rabbit got up to the burms mouth it stopped swallowing and sat there for like about 5 minutes. Then the burm put a coil around the rabbit and started pulling hard. I could hear the pop as the dental floss pulled through the head of the rabbit. Then the burm finished swallowing the rat and just left the rabbit laying there. It was the weirdest thing I think I've ever seen a snake do. Since then I just feed 2-3 jumbo rats a piece and don't even bother with rabbits.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I only keep a couple of burms that I've had for about 10 years so haven't gone through as many feeders as I have with the balls. I've fed rats both live and frozen/thawed. It didn't seem to make any difference, when feeding rats they hit their food so fast and hard that the rat didn't even have a chance to blink. I generally just feed frozen/thawed because it's easier for me. I've tried rabbits but the burms didn't even recognize them as food. I've never tried a live rabbit but can't see that they'd do anything but ignore it. The last time I tried feeding a rabbit to one of my burms I actually used a needle strung with dental floss to sew a dead rat onto the head of a dead rabbit (yup, it was pretty gross). The burm grabbed the rat and started swallowing it, when the rabbit got up to the burms mouth it stopped swallowing and sat there for like about 5 minutes. Then the burm put a coil around the rabbit and started pulling hard. I could hear the pop as the dental floss pulled through the head of the rabbit. Then the burm finished swallowing the rat and just left the rabbit laying there. It was the weirdest thing I think I've ever seen a snake do. Since then I just feed 2-3 jumbo rats a piece and don't even bother with rabbits.

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Yeah that had to be gross. Strange mine took to F/T rabbits right away.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

sew a dead rat onto the head of a dead rabbit

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Please tell me you have a picture of that.

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Originally Posted by 200xth

Please tell me you have a picture of that.

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LOL, ahhh no... :puke2:

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Originally Posted by Reinz

I believe that part of Zinc's deal whether he will admit it or not is that he wants to be detached from the kill, the death at hand.

When you feed F/T, your mind tells you that you are feeding "food". It's not live, so it's not bad, as if it is not even an animal. But SOMEONE had to kill that rat!

I don't enjoy feeding live. My snake is 12 yrs old. Thus set in her ways. She refuses F/K. She is not going to change.

I hate observing the kill. The look on the rats face. It WAS so cute crawling around just seconds ago.

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im the same way when i had to feed my snakes live food, i hated doing it but it had to be done with my picky eaters, i always had my bf do it though because he didnt feel as bad as i did lol he watched and made sure my snakes werent harmed either. i like f/t better because i didnt have to kill the rat myself so i dont feel as bad.