Why I won't buy from a pet store

I dont think I would call ASPCA but i thought maybe some organization can just get this snake to a herp vet before it dies in that cage. The owner told me everyone including him are afraid of snakes. I just do not understand if everyone is afraid to care for it why must you order them to your store??

Some of you are missing the forest for the trees. I think you're doing it on purpose.

The cost is irrelevant to this conversation but is not irrelevant in determining whether or not a store is going to take it to a vet. That's just the way it is.

And for those of you too dense to have gotten it the first few times, let me reiterate: get FACTS first THEN take action. Don't just react to what you see, unless of course your goal is to look good to those who also react to emotion before knowing anything about a given situation. If that was the goal, a couple of you were quite successful.

Call whomever you wish, just remember that you are also adding fuel to a fire with uniformed accusations.

And the whole baby comparison, still stupid. If you want to take it to brass tacks, don't kill mosquitoes, don't swat flies, don't clean your kitchen counters (there are living bacteria there) and eat nothing that ever drew breath, ingested any type of food or drank any liquid. You can't have it both ways if you're being honest. If ALL life is sacred, then ALL life is sacred. A dying ball python is worth no more, nor less, than the tick you pull off your ass and smash for being a tick.

Your high horses have made a mess all over this thread. Who's going to clean the crap up? You who made it or will you be leaving your crap for someone else to take care of?

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Originally Posted by coleworld

The owner told me everyone including him are afraid of snakes.

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So I take it you have gone back and spoken to him again? (I'm assuming that since you didn't mention this earlier) Have you gotten any more information on why the snake is in the condition that it's in?

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Originally Posted by MarkS

So I take it you have gone back and spoken to him again? (I'm assuming that since you didn't mention this earlier) Have you gotten any more information on why the snake is in the condition that it's in?

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I actually called this morning. I need to go back when another manager is there (tomorrow). I will let you guys know what happens.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Some of you are missing the forest for the trees. I think you're doing it on purpose.

The cost is irrelevant to this conversation but is not irrelevant in determining whether or not a store is going to take it to a vet. That's just the way it is.

And for those of you too dense to have gotten it the first few times, let me reiterate: get FACTS first THEN take action. Don't just react to what you see, unless of course your goal is to look good to those who also react to emotion before knowing anything about a given situation. If that was the goal, a couple of you were quite successful.

Call whomever you wish, just remember that you are also adding fuel to a fire with uniformed accusations.

And the whole baby comparison, still stupid. If you want to take it to brass tacks, don't kill mosquitoes, don't swat flies, don't clean your kitchen counters (there are living bacteria there) and eat nothing that ever drew breath, ingested any type of food or drank any liquid. You can't have it both ways if you're being honest. If ALL life is sacred, then ALL life is sacred. A dying ball python is worth no more, nor less, than the tick you pull off your ass and smash for being a tick.

Your high horses have made a mess all over this thread. Who's going to clean the crap up? You who made it or will you be leaving your crap for someone else to take care of?

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Ok well the other ball pythons are fine maybe this store does not know how to get a fussy eater to actually eat. I love snakes. I dont have a passion for raising ticks and mosquitoes or bacteria. If I can save a ball python from dying, heck I will because I have a passion for snakes. And I have a willing to help these creatures no matter the price. I could assist feed and rehydrate this snake myself for very little cost. Your making this more compliacted then it is. I would like peoples opinions on what to do and how to save this snake if I recieve him for free. If I do not, I feel bad for the little fella but it is their responsibility then and I said what I had to say.

That snake is just suffering so. Its heartbreaking actually. Do you know the address of the store, I live in brooklyn, I can probably go check on it and speak to the manager about it

That is just ridiculous! What local pet store did you go to?

This is so sad. Unfortunatly i have seen ball pythons at at petstore in my city with similar cases. 20 babies in a cage all on the verge of death.I went there when the petstore i work at part time was out of bedding and gave management a real piece of my mind. Its so sad that they either don't see anything wrong in what they are doing or simply do not care.

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Originally Posted by O.C.

That snake is just suffering so. Its heartbreaking actually. Do you know the address of the store, I live in brooklyn, I can probably go check on it and speak to the manager about it

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Im actually going to school im RI now my home town is Brooklyn. This store was in RI.

I'm not saying what is wrong or right, but I do think the snake is well past saving. If anyone does manage to get it to eat, it will likely go into shock and die. It looks small enough to have never had a meal in its' life. If you plan to spend money buying the snake just be aware that death is a very real possibility even if you get it to eat.

One thing I think everyone needs to keep in perspective is that reptiles will refuse to eat and starve to death. If you put a cat or a dog in a tiny cramped metal cage they will still eat. Their will to survive enormously outweighs their want/need for a nicer place to live. If you don't have the husbandry correct for a bp, as in this case, it will definitely starve to death and it will appear to be by its' own choosing. I really think that's why authorities/rescue groups tend to let stuff like this slide. People don't expect an animal to "choose starvation" when they are offered food, water, and shelter. And lets face it, most people don't have a clue about reptiles, even in rescue groups. Although it is a living creature, and it is terrible that the snake is starving to death, this case is more about lack of education than deliberate neglect. Yes it's frustrating, yes it's upsetting, but the only thing we can do is continue to educate people. Being mean/threatening will not help our cause.

The mob mentality these threads generate is nuts! Put your pitchforks down and go back through and and read and absorb what's being said here. Animals are just as important as children. Approaching the store owner and demanding that he/she forfeit their PROPERTY (yeah, I said it!) to you is suggested as a legitimate plan of action. Call the ASPCA, who it's been since established doesn't even support private ownership of snakes.

A) If I feel that my little girl is being threatened by an animal whether it's a dog, a snake, a tick off Wilomn's ass - it's dead if I can kill it, on the spot, no hesitation. If I catch my child threatening an animal, she's in big trouble but the thought of killing her isn't going to cross my mind. If you believe children and animals are the same, you either don't have children or you're bat crap crazy.

B) You can't just go into a business and forcefully demand that they give you their property. There's a name for that. It escapes me at the moment bu.....oh yeah, it's called ROBBERY!

C) How many who suggest calling the ASPCA really know what it is? I don't. I mean, I know they pimp out Sarah McLaughlin to get donations, but I don't know what they really stand for. Someone else said they don't even condone having snakes as pets. Assuming that this person is correct, you might as well call PETA if you're going to call the ASPCA.

If you feel compelled to do something about these situations then do something. But do something that makes some sense and accept that you can't save them all. If you're that hell bent on saving every pet store creature that isn't being cared for to your standards then get a giant rack and commit to buying every one that needs to be saved. Get some bird cages and rodent set ups too, because almost ALL the animals in chain pet stores could use a little TLC.

It's a business! It's not a zoo, or a rehab facility, or wild life refuge. Think of the snakes in there as tomatoes at the grocery store because that's basically what they are. You look them over, hold one or two, and you choose the best one. The one that's never chosen eventually rots and is disposed of.

It's a harsh reality, but it's reality nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by coleworld

Ok well the other ball pythons are fine maybe this store does not know how to get a fussy eater to actually eat. I love snakes. I dont have a passion for raising ticks and mosquitoes or bacteria. If I can save a ball python from dying, heck I will because I have a passion for snakes. And I have a willing to help these creatures no matter the price. I could assist feed and rehydrate this snake myself for very little cost. Your making this more compliacted then it is. I would like peoples opinions on what to do and how to save this snake if I recieve him for free. If I do not, I feel bad for the little fella but it is their responsibility then and I said what I had to say.

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As for your question on what you should do if you get the snake. Get it set up and feed it a VERY small f/t pinky mouse. You want to feed it the smallest meal possible since its' digestive tract has completely shut down. I honestly think it's going to be extremely hard to bring the snake back from this point, but if you want to try, by all means try. Just be aware that feeding it may be too much for it to handle at this point, it looks very weak. I would also keep it on the warmer side to help digest the food faster. I've spent months assist feeding hatchlings that refused to eat. I have had a couple die the day after I assist fed them, even after several assist feedings. Assist feeding is very stressful on them, as is feeding them after they have gone for so long without eating. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by BrandiR

It's a business! It's not a zoo, or a rehab facility, or wild life refuge. Think of the snakes in there as tomatoes at the grocery store because that's basically what they are. You look them over, hold one or two, and you choose the best one. The one that's never chosen eventually rots and is disposed of.

It's a harsh reality, but it's reality nonetheless.

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Well, if people think of animals as tomatos and let the less appealing rot in a pet store I consider that neglect. I dont care what you say its cruel. People preach about adopting dogs that have been neglected or have special issues. Everyone nowadays are adopting shelter dogs. So why can't i adopt this snake if they offer it to me? I am not demanding it and I am not trying to save every snake ethier. So when I adopted my baby pitbull from a shelter is that bad because I was trying to save them all? I encountered a lot of sick snakes at pet stores but this one is just in horrible condition.. I just want peoples opinions on how to go about caring for it not a debate about babys vs snakes.

Cole, do what you think is right. But read this thread and look at who has what opinion. The most experienced keepers here all think this snake is not going to make it. We've all said it might, but probably won't. How do you think we arrived at this conclusion? Experience.

I don't think you have much, which is not bad. You're got a big heart, also not bad. Give it a whirl if you want to, but don't expect a good outcome. I mean expect it, you have to be positive, but, well, it just doesn't look good.

What YOU consider neglect is not relevant here because you don't know the history of that snake. This has been pointed out at least half a dozen times. If you refuse to see that, then the problem is yours and yours alone. YOU don't get to tell other people how to do what they do. I'm not telling you to do or not do anything, just giving my advice on what I think the likely outcome of your choices might be as far as this snake goes.

The tomato analogy is a bit much don't you think?

Is it cruel to force feed this animal? You WILL be increasing its pain and suffering and in all likelyhood simply prolonging its death. Is that what you REALLY want to do or would it not be better to simply let it go? Quality of life and quality of death are both important. Why make this creature suffer so we, well you, can feel better about it? Harsh yes, but real too. I'd give that snake one chance in a hundred, and trust me I personally know what those odds mean, but this one may be past saving.

Well, if I were to bring this animal home. I would set it up in a small shoebox with a thick layer of damp paper towels, a short waterbowl with no more then an inch of water (or maybe pedialite) Something big enough to soak in if it can but not so big that it couldn't get out in it's weakened state. I might even want to leave it soaking in pedialite for a while. I'd try feeding a small pinkie (live first) and I'd leave it alone in a dark room with the pinkie for a few hours. If he takes it, great. If not I might try syringe feeding some egg yolk. Like Stephanie said I'd make sure it was a small meal. If they try to take too big of a meal their system can go into shock and they can die. Once it's got some food in it's belly I'd leave it alone for a few days to see how it does. I'd make sure the heat was right, maybe a hair higher then usual to make sure he can digest okay, and I'd have plenty of hiding spots (crumpled up balls of newspaper work pretty well). I'd keep doing this every few days always trying a pinkie first before force feeding, eventually I'd mix a little ground pinkie with the egg yolk. I'd take it SLOWLY, he didn't get into this state overnight, he won't come out of it quickly. In between feedings I'd just leave him alone other then a quick check and wouldn't handle any more then necessary.

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Originally Posted by coleworld

Well, if people think of animals as tomatos and let the less appealing rot in a pet store I consider that neglect. I dont care what you say its cruel. People preach about adopting dogs that have been neglected or have special issues. Everyone nowadays are adopting shelter dogs. So why can't i adopt this snake if they offer it to me? I am not demanding it and I am not trying to save every snake ethier. So when I adopted my baby pitbull from a shelter is that bad because I was trying to save them all? I encountered a lot of sick snakes at pet stores but this one is just in horrible condition.. I just want peoples opinions on how to go about caring for it not a debate about babys vs snakes.

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I'm not saying you shouldn't adopt it and try to rehabilitate it if you can. In fact, I think that's a pretty awesome thing to do. I was replying to what other people said, not trying to discourage you from doing what you think is right.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Cole, do what you think is right. But read this thread and look at who has what opinion. The most experienced keepers here all think this snake is not going to make it. We've all said it might, but probably won't. How do you think we arrived at this conclusion? Experience.

I don't think you have much, which is not bad. You're got a big heart, also not bad. Give it a whirl if you want to, but don't expect a good outcome. I mean expect it, you have to be positive, but, well, it just doesn't look good.

What YOU consider neglect is not relevant here because you don't know the history of that snake. This has been pointed out at least half a dozen times. If you refuse to see that, then the problem is yours and yours alone. YOU don't get to tell other people how to do what they do. I'm not telling you to do or not do anything, just giving my advice on what I think the likely outcome of your choices might be as far as this snake goes.

The tomato analogy is a bit much don't you think?

Is it cruel to force feed this animal? You WILL be increasing its pain and suffering and in all likelyhood simply prolonging its death. Is that what you REALLY want to do or would it not be better to simply let it go? Quality of life and quality of death are both important. Why make this creature suffer so we, well you, can feel better about it? Harsh yes, but real too. I'd give that snake one chance in a hundred, and trust me I personally know what those odds mean, but this one may be past saving.

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Ok thank you for your input I would like to know of it would be a waste to even try. I just did not want people saying "oh you shouldnt bother its only a snake" because that one snake is still part of this hobby. If it was worth saving for free and finding a new home I would just like rescuing a dog in a shelter. I will maybe try but if he is too far gone then I do not know. Thanks for everyones input.. Good or bad. Maybe they will even take it to a vet once I talk to the actual manager. I just do not want some one to buy it thinking its a runt and let it suffer more it should not be for sale.

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Originally Posted by coleworld

Ok thank you for your input I would like to know of it would be a waste to even try. I just did not want people saying "oh you shouldnt bother its only a snake" because that one snake is still part of this hobby. If it was worth saving for free and finding a new home I would just like rescuing a dog in a shelter. I will maybe try but if he is too far gone then I do not know. Thanks for everyones input.. Good or bad. Maybe they will even take it to a vet once I talk to the actual manager. I just do not want some one to buy it thinking its a runt and let it suffer more it should not be for sale.

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If you want to do it, you should. I can't say it would be a waste to try because it is a living creature, but know that the snake may not make it. I personally wouldn't because I hate seeing them like that and I hate dealing with it. It takes a lot of time, emotion, and patience. It's like RIs, sometimes no matter what you do, no matter how many shots you give them, how many trips you make to the vet, the snake still ends up dead. It's really frustrating and I prefer to avoid problem snakes if I have the option.

Yeah there is a good chance it won't make it. But I also stand by my earlier assertion that you can't truly assess what shape an animal is in from a picture. Once you have it in your hand and feel it's muscle tone (if any) you can make a better determination. Frankly I wouldn't pay a dime for that snake, but if they were to give it to you then I'd say give it a try. It might not make it, but it absolutely won't make it nothing is done and I believe that the attempt will give you experience and make you a better keeper in the long run.

Thanks everyone. I would like a hand at breeding one day so learning how to care for picky eaters and very small hatchlings would help give me some experience. I really posted the picture just to show why I hate a majority of pet stores because of the bad care they give their animals. I will update you tomorrow when I go back. Happy 4th everyone have a good day.

Keep one more thing in mind. That snake may have something contagious. You might bring home a pathogen that does harm to your snakes. If you don't have a completely separate room, better yet building, you could be getting in over your head. Some pathogens are air born, some transfer by contact, some there is not a definitive answer to how they are transferred.

It's not as simple as taking it home and giving it TLC.

I just spent the last half hour of my life catching up on this thread, I read slow:oops:

I see a lot of "do-gooders" here that are getting in an uproar about something that none of us have any control over.
A lot of new people here complaining about it too.
Now you might not like this BUT:

1-all of you new to the hobby should get use to seeing this in big retail pet stores (I'm not saying its right but its REAL)
2- I don't see any of you really wanting to do anything about it;)
3- you really want to do something about it, ask them for a job and spread all the knowledge that you have learned here. YES, I am serious here. Quit your job and go work for minimum wage to take care or their reptiles.

As much as I don't like chain stores, what brought most of you to this great hobby?
You really want to make a difference? Support your local breeders, get to know who is around you and what they breed.
Then and only then can you help the reptiles in that store. When you are in there (because we all have to buy stuff from them) and see someone looking at the reptiles you can speak up and start a conversation. Now you can recommend where they can get a quality animal and how to properly care for them.

Those are the best two ways you can help, its your choice to change jobs or build your local data base.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Keep one more thing in mind. That snake may have something contagious. You might bring home a pathogen that does harm to your snakes. If you don't have a completely separate room, better yet building, you could be getting in over your head. Some pathogens are air born, some transfer by contact, some there is not a definitive answer to how they are transferred.

It's not as simple as taking it home and giving it TLC.

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Yea I know the snake would have been in a totally seperate room. And no contact between anything that touched the sickly snake just in case.

I called and they said that they are taking it to a herp vet and if that does not help it is mine for free.. But sadly I think it will perish by then. Thanks for the help and responses everyone. Wish I could help that snake and if it lived give it to a caring home. I go into pet stores about 3 times weekly since I was a 5 because I have always had pets and reptiles and I have never seen a snake that bad. I always check out the mom and pop stores and the major chain stores in my areas and that was just the worst I have seen any snake. If I could have tried to save the snake and got it a new home I would have felt better.

At least they're bringing it to a vet, if you hadn't said anything they might not have.

At least they SAY they're bringing it to a vet. The little voice inside me that tells me things says it's unlikely, possible, but unlikely.

Some of the reasons discussed above seem to be valid, and for these even I would not prefer to buy different pet products online. However, I feel that if you buy from reputed online store, you do not end up facing these issues for sure.

From what I've seen some reptiles, especially hatchling Balls, usually do poorly in pet stores. If you think about it, their nature sets most of them up to fail. They are nocturnal and secretive, love to hide all day. Most pet stores won't give them proper shelters because if they hide all day, they will not get sold. If they cannot hide and are stressed, many will not eat. What you end up with is a snake the one in this shop. If the cages are dirty and the animals have no water, that's neglect and cruelty. If the snake won't eat, but is being fed it's not cruelty. Is it neglect because they could offer it proper shelter but don't to make a sale? I'll let you decide, but it is a reality of the business. I've seen this a lot over the years and not just in chain stores or little mom and pop pet shops, but even in stores that specialize in reptiles. I'm just of the opinion that some animals just aren't cut out to be put on display like that for sale because of there nature.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

While I agree that it shouldn't be out on the floor, we don't know what the situation is at that store. Maybe they don't have a back room. Maybe the new manager is not a reptile person. We are reptile people and know just by looking that it's in poor shape. Again, facts before stupidity. We don't have facts, we have emotions. I prefer facts.

That snake probably should be euthanized. As was mentioned above, it's a 30.00 dollar snake. While we might prefer that it be treated, it makes more business sense to put it down.

Pointing this out to the management, OFFERING to take it off their hands, without "forcing" them to give you anything, which was a joke to begin with, might produce a better outcome, but that snake looks pretty bad. Why jump right to aggressive righteousness when you have a chance of educating someone who simply doesn't know better? Jump down the guys throat and why should he give a rat's patootie what you think?

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When you own animals (as an individual or a corporation) it is good business sense to keep your assets in healthy condition.. thats good business sense

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Originally Posted by Recreation

When you own animals (as an individual or a corporation) it is good business sense to keep your assets in healthy condition.. thats good business sense

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the chain stores are multi-million dollar :gj: