Local breeder screwed over by neighbors!

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Anyone feeling horny and happy, feel free to PM me! :rofl: :gj:

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you might want to include a sex of a person you want to type. lol you never know what you will get.:colbert:

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Originally Posted by BOWSER11788

you might want to include a sex of a person you want to type. lol you never know what you will get.:colbert:

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He's not picky.

welcome to the internet...:salute:

Wow! More cold blooded then the snakes we keep apparently.

Tom, from everything I read, it seemed that you knew you'd have to get the permit and ignored it or that you had not even checked to see if you needed a permit. I apologize if that was not the case. I can understand if you checked state and county regulations and somehow overlooked the city ones. It's one thing that's been mentioned to people here and elsewhere, how the regulations, permits, laws and requirements can vary according to federal, state, county, city or even neighborhoods because it's often very confusing.

Sorry you're having the issues and hopefully you can get it straightened out.

I would agree however that pointing fingers and declaring how "Bob has hamsters!" and such, saying that other people also have pets that fall under the same law should be fined is a poor choice of tactic. It would probably be better to get your permit and try to get the rule changed by working with the authorities and pointing out that the wording is too all-encompassing since it covers everything but domestics and natives.

Making it clearer that you wanted to follow the laws to begin with, and that you think the rules should be changed for future keepers of all pets would probably be a better PR move.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Tom, from everything I read, it seemed that you knew you'd have to get the permit and ignored it or that you had not even checked to see if you needed a permit. I apologize if that was not the case. I can understand if you checked state and county regulations and somehow overlooked the city ones. It's one thing that's been mentioned to people here and elsewhere, how the regulations, permits, laws and requirements can vary according to federal, state, county, city or even neighborhoods because it's often very confusing.

Sorry you're having the issues and hopefully you can get it straightened out.

I would agree however that pointing fingers and declaring how "Bob has hamsters!" and such, saying that other people also have pets that fall under the same law should be fined is a poor choice of tactic. It would probably be better to get your permit and try to get the rule changed by working with the authorities and pointing out that the wording is too all-encompassing since it covers everything but domestics and natives.

Making it clearer that you wanted to follow the laws to begin with, and that you think the rules should be changed for future keepers of all pets would probably be a better PR move.

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I did not check the "township ordinance". That was my biggest mistake. Had I, i'd have requested the permit and never even had a problem.

I'm requesting a formal hearing and will be working with city officials to modify a statue/ordinance/code for my type of scenario. The intent with the analogy of a hamster from Syria, is that they are lumping all animals one and the same in the "exotics" category. Also it's showing that the damnation and force-able "permitting" said exotics is an ordinance that cannot and will NEVER regardless of "ordinance modification" be able to be justifiably enforced....

After further thought... I re-read their definition of "exotic" and the definition states that the "animals habitat must be indigenous to the lower 48 etc etc etc"...

hab·i·tat

/ˈhabiˌtat/

[/COLOR]

Well it just deleted half my post... yay...

Habitat

[COLOR=#878787 !important]Noun[/COLOR] The natural home or environment of an animal, plant, or other organism. A particular type of environment regarded as a home for organisms.

So in essence the term of habitat is environment. A boas habitat ranges from tropical to semi-arid... which is indeed A HABITAT that IS indigenous to the lower 48.... So in essence, I could argue via their definition that the animals are indeed NOT exotics... as they did not term/define it as "origin", but solely as habitat.

I don't feel like typing out the rest, but know I am more willing to work with the city than against it. I want a positive resolution and as said before, hopefully everyone can learn from my single mistake of not pulling out the city ordinance and a 20 dollar bill to protect my rights.

Sad to think, after all i've spent.... 20 bucks could have prevented all of this.... also not having such a dipsh*t neighbor...

Always open to thoughts and critiques. How do y'all interpret the ordinances as worded? They are VERY ambiguous and individual interpretation is up in the air.

Thanks again!

Happy Herping.

I believe the wording would still mean the animal must be a native to be included in the "animals habitat etc etc"

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

I believe the wording would still mean the animal must be a native to be included in the "animals habitat etc etc"

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One of my attorneys agreed that in a court of law their definition would most likely hold to origin.... but the ambiguous nature of the exotics permit is the battle of contention. They city originally granted me 1 week, then stated I could take my time as long as I had improvement. Now they called reneging their offer after the news went global... I supposedly have until Friday to figure something out (yay for working 120 hours a week and somehow finding time to locate a place, set it up, move the caging and then the animals...) all in 4 days while I run my business as well.... it's unrealistic.

I went to the city building and will be contacting several individuals. Unfortunately the next council meeting will not be until the 14 of May, so I need at least that long to go before the council.... this is just so unnecessary. That's the biggest kicker... Not even needed. I have an open dialogue. They know this..... but, they want to slap me with punishments as fast as possible, instead of show compassion to the situation. Hopefully the words I send out tonight, will not fall upon deaf ears. :(

People suck and do unneeded things that seem to do nothing but create problems. I'm sorry you gotta deal with all this hassle, from what I gain you dropped ball a little not checking the laws before moving. But i can see how you can do that, I overlooked renting laws in my town when I got my dog (Apbt) down here making it so noone would rent to me. So I know mistakes happen things get overlooked, i hope your able to figure out something that lets you keep some at least cuz you can tell you care for your animals. If in the end you fail it'll be a hard lesson learned on city laws. So good luck with it all.

I saw this on the r/snakes subreddit, and it pisses me off to no end that someone complained about such a well done setup and snakes that are clearly contained and well taken care of. I hope karma comes back around and bites them in the ass. Whether this was done out of fear/ignorance or someone just being hateful I dunno, but I hope things work out for him in the long run.

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Originally Posted by thedarkwolf25

I saw this on the r/snakes subreddit, and it pisses me off to no end that someone complained about such a well done setup and snakes that are clearly contained and well taken care of. I hope karma comes back around and bites them in the ass. Whether this was done out of fear/ignorance or someone just being hateful I dunno, but I hope things work out for him in the long run.

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I heard it was a neighbor that complained. They probably freaked out when they found out about the snakes and thought "oh my god they're gonna get out, hunt us all down and kill us in our sleep! Call the police!", and since he had no permit they had to tell him to somehow get rid of them.

Animal Planet has done WONDERS in telling the general public that every snake keeper is crazy and has no idea what they're doing with their animals... And that every snake is an uncontrollable monster just biding their time for an opportunity to kill a person.

Wow, this really sucks. I hope he can movw.

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Cobb says he moved in to the city ten months ago, and he'd rather move out entirely than face the prospects of losing his pets. He says less responsible snake owners have simply given what he does a bad reputation.

"A few ruin it for the many— a few irresponsible people. Just like a few irresponsible dog owners. A few irresponsible drivers. A few irresponsible parents. They ruin it for the people that do it right," Cobb said. "And I'm the guy that does it right."

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I did find this statement rather odd. Knowing the laws is part of being a snake owner, so he is not helping with the whole bad rep thing. "The guy that does it right" makes sure he isn't breaking the law. I feel bad for the guy, but rules are rules even if they're stupid.

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Originally Posted by mackynz

Wow, this really sucks. I hope he can movw.





I did find this statement rather odd. Knowing the laws is part of being a snake owner, so he is not helping with the whole bad rep thing. "The guy that does it right" makes sure he isn't breaking the law. I feel bad for the guy, but rules are rules even if they're stupid.

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The ONLY rule I broke was not having the permit. I meet all limitations to be granted said permit and now they refuse to even give me an application for said permit. I still meet all limitations and the citizen of cottonwood heights should never be refused at least to apply. Edit: For the reason that I don't need to air everything.

I just want to apply for the permit and pay the fee associated. It's like letting your license lapse because you get caught up in life (god forbid no one does that), then the PD suspending your license (albeit everything else is in order with a clean record) and saying you don't even have an appeals process. It's just rather frustrating.

I'm okay with the current status of this coming to light. It will help many people down to road and reiterate the importance of checking the ordinances. I'm surprised at how many (I have hundreds of herp friends) are now commenting to me that they are checking their ordinances. In the end, it is for the greater good.

Abner! Abner! Look at what the neighbor's doing now!!! What is that he's washing?!?!? Call the police, Abner!!!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SMrVFVtIV9...ys_kravitz.jpg

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Originally Posted by tommyhil4_6

The ONLY rule I broke was not having the permit. I meet all limitations to be granted said permit and now they refuse to even give me an application for said permit. I still meet all limitations and the citizen of cottonwood heights should never be refused at least to apply. Edit: For the reason that I don't need to air everything.

I just want to apply for the permit and pay the fee associated. It's like letting your license lapse because you get caught up in life (god forbid no one does that), then the PD suspending your license (albeit everything else is in order with a clean record) and saying you don't even have an appeals process. It's just rather frustrating.

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I understand that, but what I'm saying is that you should have applied from the start. That would be the responsible thing to have done. I know it was "only" one rule that you broke but breaking rules in any number isn't doing the hobby any favors. I know I'm going to have to move in a few years because my boa will grow larger than my city allows. I made sure to check into that before even getting her.

I do think that the rule itself is a bunch of crap. I hope you're able to salvage the situation, losing everything would be devastating but you have to realize that the was 100% completely and entirely preventable.

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Originally Posted by mackynz

I understand that, but what I'm saying is that you should have applied from the start. That would be the responsible thing to have done. I know it was "only" one rule that you broke but breaking rules in any number isn't doing the hobby any favors. I know I'm going to have to move in a few years because my boa will grow larger than my city allows. I made sure to check into that before even getting her.

I do think that the rule itself is a bunch of crap. I hope you're able to salvage the situation, losing everything would be devastating but you have to realize that the was 100% completely and entirely preventable.

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Agreed. Hind sight is always 20/20 :). I do know I have learned 2 major lessons...

1) READ ALL COUNTY AND CITY ORDINANCES (p.s. the county cleared me as of yesterday)
2) I'll keep to myself :).

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Originally Posted by tommyhil4_6

Agreed. Hind sight is always 20/20 :). I do know I have learned 2 major lessons...

1) READ ALL COUNTY AND CITY ORDINANCES (p.s. the county cleared me as of yesterday)
2) I'll keep to myself :).

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There's another lesson here.

No warrant, no entry. You don't have to let them in, you don't have to open your door, you don't have to answer your phone, you don't have to return an email.

People forget these things.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

There's another lesson here.

No warrant, no entry. You don't have to let them in, you don't have to open your door, you don't have to answer your phone, you don't have to return an email.

People forget these things.

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While this is very true, in this case it probably would've hurt more than it would've helped. People go ape-poop when they hear "snake".

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Originally Posted by xFenrir

While this is very true, in this case it probably would've hurt more than it would've helped. People go ape-poop when they hear "snake".

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Conjecture, pure conjecture. Suitable for vibrant roses, but little else.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

There's another lesson here.

No warrant, no entry. You don't have to let them in, you don't have to open your door, you don't have to answer your phone, you don't have to return an email.

People forget these things.

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That is my number 2 :).

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Conjecture, pure conjecture. Suitable for vibrant roses, but little else.

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In THIS particular incidence, I do believe it has been a benefit. It solidifies my honesty of not knowing any law breaking, transparent nature. The way the whole ordeal has been portrayed is due to my ability to be honest I believe. Of course, past is the past. :)

So you're all set with a permit and can keep your reptiles? :)

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Ignore the haters. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by xFenrir

So you're all set with a permit and can keep your reptiles? :)

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They actually have so far refused my requests via telephone/email and in person to even give me an application.

Well, that's the last time I post anything of a remotely important nature on this website.

The total lack of compassion and gleeful throwing of stones in this thread is heartbreaking and utterly disgusting.

I'd love to see the city ordinances for all of the stone-throwers and hear about how they follow the law to the letter. By all means, all of you should invite animal control into your homes to make sure that you're not breaking the law either, since you feel confident enough to judge Thomas over this. I'd sure hate for anyone to go through what Thomas is going through, but apparently there are a lot of perfect people in here that are totally comfortable and familiar with their own city/county laws, to the point where they look down on other people for not being as educated as they are. :rolleyes:

Thomas, I should have known better than to expect support from here. I'm sorry for any additional headache I have caused you while you are already working so hard on this. I made a similar thread on another website that has only had positive feedback thus far. I'll send you the link to that.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=25041843&nid...s_cid=queue-13

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

Well, that's the last time I post anything of a remotely important nature on this website.

The total lack of compassion and gleeful throwing of stones in this thread is heartbreaking and utterly disgusting.

I'd love to see the city ordinances for all of the stone-throwers and hear about how they follow the law to the letter. By all means, all of you should invite animal control into your homes to make sure that you're not breaking the law either, since you feel confident enough to judge Thomas over this. I'd sure hate for anyone to go through what Thomas is going through, but apparently there are a lot of perfect people in here that are totally comfortable and familiar with their own city/county laws, to the point where they look down on other people for not being as educated as they are. :rolleyes:

Thomas, I should have known better than to expect support from here. I'm sorry for any additional headache I have caused you while you are already working so hard on this. I made a similar thread on another website that has only had positive feedback thus far. I'll send you the link to that.

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I believe tampons are on aisle 4. Would you like me to get you a case or two?

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

Well, that's the last time I post anything of a remotely important nature on this website.

The total lack of compassion and gleeful throwing of stones in this thread is heartbreaking and utterly disgusting.

I'd love to see the city ordinances for all of the stone-throwers and hear about how they follow the law to the letter. By all means, all of you should invite animal control into your homes to make sure that you're not breaking the law either, since you feel confident enough to judge Thomas over this. I'd sure hate for anyone to go through what Thomas is going through, but apparently there are a lot of perfect people in here that are totally comfortable and familiar with their own city/county laws, to the point where they look down on other people for not being as educated as they are. :rolleyes:

Thomas, I should have known better than to expect support from here. I'm sorry for any additional headache I have caused you while you are already working so hard on this. I made a similar thread on another website that has only had positive feedback thus far. I'll send you the link to that.

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I'd have no problems allowing animal control to come look at my animals. I KNOW I'm following the laws, because I looked into them before getting a reptile.

People are "throwing stones" because while he may love his reptiles and have excellent care, he's breaking the law. And that doesn't look good on herpers. We already have enough laws and legislation to deal with.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

Well, that's the last time I post anything of a remotely important nature on this website.

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Seems I've heard this before. It is the internet, and opinions are like bum holes. Everyone has one. Not everyone is going to think the same, or have the same opinion as you. You have to have tough enough skin, to take the people that agree with you, as well as the ones that don't, when you post something on the internet... Easy enough, don't post it, or don't whine about it when everyone doesn't agree.

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Originally Posted by Highline Reptiles South

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Ignore the haters. Good luck.

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X2 Truth.

Animal control can come to my house any time they want :) in answer to the lady asking. I even own a breed of dog that my city frowns upon, but I have done everything in order to be sure my dog isn't a problem. Part of my cities ordinances are people with bull breeds can't rent an apartment unless the land lord has the right insurance, hint none of them do and if you own your own house you need to have the special insurance for "dangerous breeds". Your dog can not be tied outside more than two hrs alone, your dog can never be off leash in a public place and your door needs to have a beware sticker. Now if I'm caught violating their rules I run the risk of having my dog taken away, if I don't have the insurance, or if I let my dog run lose even with me in same yard. If I tie my dog out for more than two hours or if I refuse to put a beware sticker on my door I will be evicted. Because those two rules are in place by my trailer park, with 250 trailers in the park if they find you braking the rules when it comes to a bully breed dog your evicted no questions asked no second chances. I made the choice to get a dog rescued from a fighting organization, I got the dog knowing the rules in place and knowing what I would need to do. So again come on in animal control all my eggs are in a basket looking pretty. I'm not getting down on the dude since overlooking of things happens, but since it was asked I answered with how I've delt with city ordinances.

So yeah, this freaks me out completely:

http://news.yahoo.com/collector-keep...211415295.html

Wait, is he renting, or does he own his house? They said "in his basement". The whole reason I wanted to buy a house was so I wouldn't have to worry about a landlord freaking out about snakes. :(

Big thread dealing with this already ;) it's the one about the local breeder something or another. Basically check your local laws make sure you can legally own snakes in your county with out a required permit. This mans county you need a permit he didn't have one is what it boils down too. If he had gotten the proper permit he wouldn't have had the issue unless they wanted to get at him for the amount he has since the permit says something about only owning one snake

I thought it was OK to have his snakes in his state and county, but not his specific city without a permit?

Either way. Lack of permit is what got this guy in trouble. Not the fact he had snakes.

Here's the thread:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...r-by-neighbors!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Yeah his issue was with his locality, I think his development community if I recall? Exotic animals were prohibited without a permit. Shouldn't be an issue if you've got all your paperwork lined up right.

Is there anywhere that lists all the various state and local regs related to keeping Balls and Boas?

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Originally Posted by ChaosAffect

Is there anywhere that lists all the various state and local regs related to keeping Balls and Boas?

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You would have to look up your specific state laws via Fish and Wildlife/Game and local city ordinances. They should have state and city websites with the said information

out of curiosity i just looked up my own state's laws (tennessee). web site says we're not allowed to keep any "poisonous" snakes.. "but officer! my gabby isn't POISONOUS" :rofl:

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Originally Posted by creepin

out of curiosity i just looked up my own state's laws (tennessee). web site says we're not allowed to keep any "poisonous" snakes.. "but officer! my gabby isn't POISONOUS" :rofl:

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If that's how the law reads then technically you could win a lawsuit... wouldn't be worth it, though.

Sent from my Gameboy using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by ChaosAffect

If that's how the law reads then technically you could win a lawsuit... wouldn't be worth it, though.

Sent from my Gameboy using Tapatalk 2

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not sure if thats how the actual law reads.. just read an outline on some tennessee wildlife site. just found it amusing.

http://www.bornfreeusa.org/b4a2_exot...state.php?s=tn

I'm not sure exactly how comprehensive this one is, but it seems like a good place to start:

http://reptilelaws.org/pennsylvania-reptile-laws/

It's trained on PA because that's where I'm at, but you can search by region.

This guy with the snakes moved into a private community with it's own rules that he didn't know about.

For the rest of us living in the 'freedom' of the good ol USA, you have county, city, state, and federal laws or restrictions or permit requirements and sometimes there are just plain ignorant enforcement officers so it's REALLY up to each individual to be sure they have checked everywhere they need to. Having an UP TO DATE copy of any regulations or permit requirements on hand might also be beneficial if you want to go that far.

Being lowkey and not cleaning tubs in your front yard is also something you may want to avoid.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Being lowkey and not cleaning tubs in your front yard is also something you may want to avoid.

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ahh "the land of the free"

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Originally Posted by loonunit

So yeah, this freaks me out completely:

http://news.yahoo.com/collector-keep...211415295.html

Wait, is he renting, or does he own his house? They said "in his basement". The whole reason I wanted to buy a house was so I wouldn't have to worry about a landlord freaking out about snakes. :(

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Originally Posted by carlson

Big thread dealing with this already ;)

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Here's the thread:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...r-by-neighbors!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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All Merged now :gj:

Ok one part of this dudes story bugs the crap outta me now that I'm starting to see it all over the dam place. He keeps saying all 29 of his boas are 12k a piece an a 100k room. I don't believe those numbers one bit, since this guy is on this thread. Please show me five 12k boas would love to see five of them. I just feel like such bs comes from this dudes mouth the more I read on this.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

This guy with the snakes moved into a private community with it's own rules that he didn't know about.

For the rest of us living in the 'freedom' of the good ol USA, you have county, city, state, and federal laws or restrictions or permit requirements and sometimes there are just plain ignorant enforcement officers so it's REALLY up to each individual to be sure they have checked everywhere they need to. Having an UP TO DATE copy of any regulations or permit requirements on hand might also be beneficial if you want to go that far.

Being lowkey and not cleaning tubs in your front yard is also something you may want to avoid.

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That last line is just wrong.

Be lowkey and avoid cleaning tubs in your front yard.

Much better.

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Originally Posted by carlson

Ok one part of this dudes story bugs the crap outta me now that I'm starting to see it all over the dam place. He keeps saying all 29 of his boas are 12k a piece an a 100k room. I don't believe those numbers one bit, since this guy is on this thread. Please show me five 12k boas would love to see five of them. I just feel like such bs comes from this dudes mouth the more I read on this.

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I too would like to see these morphs.