Dehtdrated Water Monitor

Honestly at this point, you need to leave these people a review. They sent you an animal that is obviously in bad shape. You need to let people know so they know what they are dealing with.

If you have dated invoices, shipping dates, photos, etc. Leave a review for them proving your case. Maybe they will refund part of your money or something.

I'm sorry he's not doing any better, I have my fingers crossed for him. It's hard to bring them back when they are that far gone.

Just curious, what are you offering him to eat and how are you offering it?

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Originally Posted by Michelle.C

Honestly at this point, you need to leave these people a review. They sent you an animal that is obviously in bad shape. You need to let people know so they know what they are dealing with.

If you have dated invoices, shipping dates, photos, etc. Leave a review for them proving your case. Maybe they will refund part of your money or something.

I'm sorry he's not doing any better, I have my fingers crossed for him. It's hard to bring them back when they are that far gone.

Just curious, what are you offering him to eat and how are you offering it?

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X2! Here and the fauna BOI. People need to steer clear of these sellers so it doesn't happen to anyone else. I am hoping yur little Guy makes it...

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been offering him dubia and lobster roaches, as well as hopper mice live and pre killed. I left some roaches out to roam the enclosure(as my ornate loves to search for them throughout day so thought that he might as well) as well as some in a shallow dish for easy capture, The mice were left to roam for a few hours but didn't want them to harm the lizard and the dead were left in over night.

He only got bothered for 5 mins when i had to put the food in, but didn't touch him so as to not further stress him any.

5 minutes a day that is

has anyone dealt with UnderGround Reptiles before?

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Originally Posted by simpleyork

has anyone dealt with UnderGround Reptiles before?

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I have. I purchased a pair of Red Tail Green Rats, they were supposed to be a sexed 1.1 pair. They are both female and had...friends. Luckily I quarantine and have plenty of Prevent a Mite on hand.

just wondering if it's even worth trying to get a refund or just post a negative review.

Got home and took a look at him, I don't think I can bare to let him suffer anymore. I'll be getting him Euthanized. I wish it had turned for the better, but I really do believe he was too far gone when I received him.
I don't know why I didn't request photos of the animal I was receiving, as I usually do just to see if they are willing to go the extra mile for their customers and to make sure I'm getting what they say I'm getting.
Sorry if I sound so negative, I was just so excited to finally get a Water monitor and it ended so soon.

It's a tough decision, and kudos for having the stones to do it.

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Originally Posted by simpleyork

just wondering if it's even worth trying to get a refund or just post a negative review.

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It's ALWAYS worth giving a business a chance to make it right with their customer. Even if it's known ahead of time that the chances of them doing the right thing are slim, they need to be given the opportunity.

Be polite, but direct and too the point and don't be wishy washy about it. Something along the lines of:

"I purchased a water monitor from you on (date) and informed you on (date) of it's poor and deteriorating condition. A vet was consulted on (date). The monitor received proper care and all the vet's instructions were followed. But the monitor could not eat and could not overcome the damage done to internal organs brought on by substandard care prior to its sale. I'm asking for a complete refund of the purchase and shipping price and expect it no later than (reasonable date). This is not up for negotiation. If I don't receive the complete refund by the requested date, I will be posting my experience on the appropriate venues for maximum exposure to your client base."

And be sure to include pictures and copies of vet reports and receipts.

Underground Reptiles does not have a good reputation. I honestly don't expect them to give you a refund or care if you threaten to go to the BOI. You won't be the first to talk about them there. However, they MIGHT give the refund and its worth a try. Mostly though, doing that strengthens your case on the BOI. You have to show that you TRIED to let them make it right and they refused. THEN you have a solid BOI case.

Sorry about the little guy. Seems like he never had a chance. :(

I've been brought stuff that looks much much worse especially in water monitors and they turned around.

Your cage is terrible. Ideally for any monitor you either want to go the trough route for smaller monitors, OR you want to take time to frame and INSULATE walls for the enclosure for bigger stuff.

Heavily dehydrated stuff i will go to the extreme of subcutaneous hydration. Basically its injection of water under the skin of a lizard to help speed up the hydration process (think similar to a human IV). Force feeding Pedialyte is another option I use often with rescues. YOU have the benefit that he is eating. Much eaiser to force fluid than food. Personally, I would push fluids and heat. Yes he needs water BUT with the limited info and apparent knowledge it is NOT beneficial to have him soaking. He is retreating to water which lowers his body temps and encourages respiratory issues in sick animals. heat and decent humidity, push fluids and encourage eating.


Your cage....you want to keep heat INSIDE the cage. Outside mounted lights pointing in are just plain dumb. You lose over half of the heat this way. Learn to wire your own sockets and have them completely inside the cage, NO SHROUDS!!!!!!! Humidity will come especially with dirt substrate. As it dries out, wet it down or get leaf litter. Downfall, dirt is hard to heat so this is yet another reason your cage is subpar.

Your situation, I would probably use one of the large blue rubbermaid tubs with a socket wired inside. i would use a retes stack and keep him on paper towels for substrate to keep a good eye on fecals. I would give a small dish of water that he can not lay in but can drink from. I would increase overall temps (I'd use a heat mat under the tub if necessary) to above 85 and basking site 130-140 and see where he chooses to lay. heating him up SHOULD encourage food drive. If he's laying in his water, even if you are heating him up, he's lowering his temps on his own.

Monitors are hard to get right unless you put forth the effort for a proper setup.

All I can add to the above post (excellently written by the way) is that injections should be Normosol-R an electrolyte intended specifically for dehydrated animals.

So I'm now really confused, I was told to put him on dirt then not to put him on dirt.
If anyone is willing to call me and talk about my setup a little more send me a PM and I'll send them my number as I'm now confused and need phone consultation since it's easier to get all the information through.

The reason for them being mounted on top was because of this photo.
http://www.proexotics.com/faq_images...or_trough8.jpg
It's a quick fix though and I have a day to do it.

I have two digital thermometers and two bulbs for monitoring the cages temps.

I'll set up a cage like you said and see if that helps. I'll get this one cleaned up and set for my Ornate. Thanks. I'm not trying to push any buttons just getting frustrated.

I did call UnderGround up and voiced my concern about their lack of help and they told me to send another e-mail and that they would help out better this time.

No, you misread... Dirt has to be kept damp. I use a watering can like people water potted plants with.

Misting on dirt is virtually useless, I dump 2 gallons of water on my Monitor's dirt every few days.

by spreading leaf litter over the top it helps the dirt retain moisture.

I have planted grass, serves the same purpose, the grass and it's root structure holds the soil together and keeps the humidity in it.

The statement about soaking is highly accurate, animals do not absorb via osmosis.

A decent vet will do a Normosol injection for about $100 (office visit included)

okay that's what I was doing, dumping water in there so it stays moist.
here's some more photos from today I've set him up with paper towels and a shallow water dish with a basking spot high of 150 and humidity at 80% he is now in a smaller enclosure but long so as to make it easier to have a temp gradient, wasn't able to pick up a tub today so it is a tank 12" x 4' x 13" with a wood top to keep in the heat and humidity. I feel like I stepped back some.
how would one go about tube feeding as he has not eaten since Monday?

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000147.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000146.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000148.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000145.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000149.jpg

called the vet but missed by an hour, left a message. I'll call again on Monday.

Pedialyte is that the stuff you can give children or something else?
and do you mix it with water like 50/50 or just straight.

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Originally Posted by infernalis

All I can add to the above post (excellently written by the way) is that injections should be Normosol-R an electrolyte intended specifically for dehydrated animals.

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that's good advice if you have access but for most of us, distilled water works in a pinch.

Just a general question about distilled water... isn't the reason Normosol-R or pedialyte is recommended due to the specific electrolyte balance? I would think that you have to be very careful with distilled water, particularly if the animal isn't taking in any other form of liquid or food, that may provide necessary minerals for healthy cell function? If injecting, is there a possibility of rupturing cells?

I obviously don't know enough about the subject, which is why I am asking, but is this an issue to be cautious of?

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Originally Posted by simpleyork

So I'm now really confused, I was told to put him on dirt then not to put him on dirt.

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shouldn't be confused. Many people want to offer a naturalistic habitat cage. In reality, many people raise monitors on solid floors with no substrate. Which is better normally depends on the health of your monitor in the end. I would agree that monitors would rather be in the wild and trying to provide them a "near home" cage is most ethical.

Using the tub is purely a quarantine method that is much easier to watch fecal output and maintain temps properly. Very hard to properly heat dirt, making sure it is healthy right now is more important than him feeling like he's at home. I've had many monitors in bare tubs who were feeding machines(because they were healthy) you can still add hides if you feel they are necessary.

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Originally Posted by Anatopism

Just a general question about distilled water... isn't the reason Normosol-R or pedialyte is recommended is due to the electrolyte balance? I would think that you have to be very careful with distilled water, particularly if the animal isn't taking in any other form of liquid or food, that may provide necessary minerals for healthy cell function? If injecting, is there a possibility of rupturing cells? I obviously don't know enough about the subject, which is why I am asking, but is this an issue to be cautious of?

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Pedialyte is the cheap way of hydration because it has a few things above and beyond plain distilled water. I would not inject pedialyte into an animal. I use it orally.

MANY issues can be caused by someone with no clue injecting any living creature with a needle. Are you implying the increased hydrostatic pressure causing cell lysis? Highly doubtful.

I'll be using pedialyte orally.

I have in the past used a needle to inject an anti bacteria medicine for a sick ball python via
vet orders

where would you inject on the lizard (hip area or tail? where there is more muscle?)

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Originally Posted by simpleyork

I'll be using pedialyte orally.

I have in the past used a needle to inject an anti bacteria medicine for a sick ball python via
vet orders

where would you inject on the lizard (hip area or tail? where there is more muscle?)

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find loose skin fold, pinch, slide needle just under skin.

There's plenty of those on him unfortunately. Been getting a little bit of pedialyte in him though most defiantly does not like me giving it to him. his eyes are no longer watery like they were yesterday morning and seems more lively.
Since he has gone off food what might be a good substitute to orally feed him? His fat storage on his tail and thigh area is gone so what would be the best route to go?
I haven't had problems keeping my health reptiles healthy, but this is a new one for me nursing an unhealthy stressed monitor to health. Thanks for the help suzuki4life, this has given me some more hope in the monitor, I don't want to loose him.

You might try a pinkie slurry to syringe feed him.

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if you had a pinky pump(those evil things I will never own again) you could pump in some pinkies.

I'd work on hydration and heat for now and watch him hopefully liven up. You said he ate a week ago on his own. Maybe the hydration will inspire him to continue. Force feeding should be one of the last possible options IMHO.

I'd check on him and if he's off his basking site, maybe give more pedialyte and put him back on. Make him move off of it himself.(forcing activity) If he stays under it for 20-30 minutes, you have a problem...a vet problem.(assuming you actually have a 147 degree basking site which is pretty hot for a water)

Rather than force feed, you can try assist feeding. Use a small prey item to try and gently get him to open his mouth. Often with monitors, they will go ahead and open their mouth and bite whatever you are prodding them with. Then just hold it in his mouth and he should hopefully swallow. You can try it with small pinkies or roaches.

I rescued a V. indicus in much worse shape than your guy. Not only was she dehydrated/emaciated, she would regurgitate every she did manage to eat. Until she finally lost the will to eat entirely. We brought her into the vet, had her dewormed and with some proper temperatures, humidity, basking area, etc. and a bit of assist feeding and she bounced back wonderfully.

You all are giving me hope. I gave him some more pedialyte this morning put him on his basking spot then he moved off, came back from church and he had moved on to it which is a climb. He is starting to be more active.

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Originally Posted by simpleyork

You all are giving me hope. I gave him some more pedialyte this morning put him on his basking spot then he moved off, came back from church and he had moved on to it which is a climb. He is starting to be more active.

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keep hydrating. Tomorrow offer food if he keeps up activity.

he's been moviing around some, put some dubia roaches in there, it was a no go, i'll be picking up a baby rat tomorrow to see if that works

as far as underground goes they still claim that it was in perfect health when I got it so I'm done dealing with them, as those first photos were taken the day I received it and the day after.

Post on Fauna BOI. You might get their attention a little better there. :)

Keep hydrating
Keep the temps proper.

Update?

still not eating, lively but still looks dehydrated.

at this point I would consider assist feeding. If you have successfully hydrated for 3-4 days and it did not vomit it back up, hydrate then feed.

picking up my bulk mice tomorrow so I'll be assist feeding him. I just hope he doesn't puke it back up. he's kept most of the fluids in though he still looks just as skinny.

one of my rats had a litter last night so after work I assist fed him one he took it and did not upchuck it

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Originally Posted by simpleyork

one of my rats had a litter last night so after work I assist fed him one he took it and did not upchuck it

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Thats good news!

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Originally Posted by simpleyork

one of my rats had a litter last night so after work I assist fed him one he took it and did not upchuck it

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Good news! thanks for the update..

small meals are better than trying large ones. Pinks are great because no fur to deal with. If the pink is smaller than width of head, I would continue to assist feed daily until it eats on its own.

Once it is passing a semi solid fecal, I would suggest calling a vet to see if you can bring in a specimen to have a work up done. This is a proactive and cheaper way of doing things. If the results of the fecal come back clean, continue to do what you are doing. If not, you know to take it in for meds.

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Originally Posted by simpleyork

one of my rats had a litter last night so after work I assist fed him one he took it and did not upchuck it

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Excellent!

wouldn't take any this afternoon, activity has gone way down

When i assist, they don't get the option of refusing.

Joanna passed away this morning.

Sorry for your loss.

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Originally Posted by simpleyork

Just received a 24" water monitor from an online shop(if name is needed i will Pm it) Anyway it is quite lively but seems dehydrated to me, the pelvic bone is showing some. Just wondering what I can do to make him acclimate better and to get his health up. he's in a large glass enclosure for now with a wooden lid as well as has the light hanging low near a perch to get him a place to bask that is up at around 110 degrees, the humidity is at 80%. I've offered it dubia roaches and egg. It has taken a few roaches but not many.
Also this is a short term set up as i have a room I'm going to convert to two enclosures one for this Monitor and one for my Ornate monitor

[IMG]http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af276/simpleyork
/P1000016.jpg[/IMG]

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000016.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000027.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000086.jpg

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I would get a fecal sample done ASAP. When ever my Black Throat or Water refuse to eat they have a problem. most of the time it has been do to parasites and if they have a big load they will not eat. My black thraot stopped eating two monts ago ran a fecal test and he had a intestinal worm and after his second treatment he started to eat again.

On tamming leave him alone for a while an allow him to adjust. My black throat took over three months befre he stopped running everytime I came into the room. Work at his pace and try not to push things. He will come arround in time. Tame is a realvent term with Monitors. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by simpleyork

Joanna passed away this morning.

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Originally Posted by Chris Wilkinson

I would get a fecal sample done ASAP. When ever my Black Throat or Water refuse to eat they have a problem. most of the time it has been do to parasites and if they have a big load they will not eat. My black thraot stopped eating two monts ago ran a fecal test and he had a intestinal worm and after his second treatment he started to eat again.

On tamming leave him alone for a while an allow him to adjust. My black throat took over three months befre he stopped running everytime I came into the room. Work at his pace and try not to push things. He will come arround in time. Tame is a realvent term with Monitors. Good luck.

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Sorry for your loss.

Acquiring WC animals is always a gamble. Stick to CBB.

Chris

I will never buy anything with out either seeing it or many photos taken of the animal before buying it.