baby spider ball keeps shaking its head this normall?

SL I hope you dont have any children that are born with a birth defect of some sort...

Those that think they have spiders with no wobbles either don't know how to identify it, or by chance just haven't seen it YET. There isn't a spider in existence that has absolutely no wobble.

Someone who looks down on wobbling so bad that they kill babies that do it should not be allowed to breed anything spider. It is a natural trait of the morph.

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Those that think they have spiders with no wobbles either don't know how to identify it, or by chance just haven't seen it YET. There isn't a spider in existence that has absolutely no wobble.

Someone who looks down on wobbling so bad that they kill babies that do it should not be allowed to breed anything spider. It is a natural trait of the morph.

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I am with you on this I have had two spider balls one male with a decent wobble who would strike a miss at times and do a nice shake before the strike an obvious wobbler but a great snake other wise. The second is a female who if you don't pay attention to someone would say she has no wobble. I have seen her wobble though it's ever so slight. It's only right before she actually strikes at her rat/mouse, where she slightly tilts her head very slight to the right. She strikes perfectly though and I would have never noticed if I didn't feed her outside of her cage everytime. Just from what I gather in my short time is ever spider has it just some way less noticable than others. Why someone who throw one in the freezer is beyond me spiders are usually good eaters and if they have trouble striking live prey froozen thawed can be offered. Shoot just give them to someone willing to work with them even.

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Originally Posted by MidSouthMorphs

He is wrong about is putting down a wobbler. Even though he doesn't want to breed them, they would make a fantastic pet for someone. Hell, I would take them in simply because I love snakes.

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Absolutely this. I love spiders. I love all the beautiful morphs they can make. If someone was going to get rid of a spider due to a severe case of wobble, I'd pounce on that faster than a cornsnake on a mouse. I don't care if it wobbles. Sure. It might never get bred, but that wouldn't matter to me. I'd be quite content to keep it as a pet.

Most of my animals are misfits anyway, so it wouldn't bother me in any shape or form.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

@rich. I have had to put 2 spiders down, 1 bee , and 6 caramels, in my life. The bee and the spiders were really bad. They were produced 2 years apart from eachother from the same male to different females. I sold the male off and didnt have the issue again. The caramels were over a 5 year period and it was the result of that horrible tail kink issue

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So technically you just added another "bad breeder" to the market, by what you classify these spiders as. Seems a little counter intuitive to your own argument. As far as the earlier post, you said that this wobble is due to inbreeding. Because it is pretty well known that spider x spider has not been very successful, how can you verify that spiders are heavily inbred? Don't criticize people for"not reading what you type" before reading it yourself bud.

Are you people serious? Lol. @ cavanaugh, it is not a trait. A neuroligical disorder is not the trait of a spider. It is a defect and not all of them have it. Are you serious. Do you even know who imported the original animal? Do you know the history behind how it was mass produced? This is the problem with know it alls with no experience that just want to start putting someone down cause they dont like what that person has to say. Do your homework. Secondly are you really telling me i am a bad breeder for putting an animal down that has a defect that is stopping it from eating and going to cause a slow agonizing death. You people who would allow an animal to suffer like this are the bad owners. What happens to a puppy born with the same neurological disorder? It would be put down. Think about it. Do you think i like to put em down? It affects my pocket when i cant sell an animal and have to put it down. You guys really need to take the blinders off. It is not a cruelty issue rather a responsibillity issue to ensure an animal doesnt suffer.

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Originally Posted by PweEzy

So technically you just added another "bad breeder" to the market, by what you classify these spiders as. Seems a little counter intuitive to your own argument. As far as the earlier post, you said that this wobble is due to inbreeding. Because it is pretty well known that spider x spider has not been very successful, how can you verify that spiders are heavily inbred? Don't criticize people for"not reading what you type" before reading it yourself bud.

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Do your homework bud. I do know where and when the first spider was imported from and history behind the mass breeding frenzy that followed. I bought one of the first ever availible spider males. I do know what im talking about. You obviouslly do not so dont judge me when you have no idea what you are talking about

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Originally Posted by raptor

absolutely this. I love spiders. I love all the beautiful morphs they can make. If someone was going to get rid of a spider due to a severe case of wobble, i'd pounce on that faster than a cornsnake on a mouse. I don't care if it wobbles. Sure. It might never get bred, but that wouldn't matter to me. I'd be quite content to keep it as a pet.

Most of my animals are misfits anyway, so it wouldn't bother me in any shape or form.

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i never said i put a spider down cause of a wobble. I said i put the animal down because it was a severe case and wouldn and couldnt eat. I have a vet that comes to my facility ever 2 weeks. Does any of you know it all judge and jurrors do the same?

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Originally Posted by snake lab

You people who would allow an animal to suffer like this are the bad owners. What happens to a puppy born with the same neurological disorder? It would be put down. Think about it. Do you think i like to put em down?

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Pity we can put animals down so easily BUT I am cold hearted and ruthless when I say the same things about human offspring:confused::confused::confused:

Well I'm out. This is one of those discussions that's going nowhere fast.

No hard feelings snake lab, and I would love to be proven wrong if you have any non-wobbler babies for sale. ;)

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Originally Posted by snake lab

i never said i put a spider down cause of a wobble. I said i put the animal down because it was a severe case and wouldn and couldnt eat. I have a vet that comes to my facility ever 2 weeks. Does any of you know it all judge and jurrors do the same?

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Read my post again. I said severe case.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Are you people serious? Lol. @ cavanaugh, it is not a trait. A neuroligical disorder is not the trait of a spider. It is a defect and not all of them have it.

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Look buddy... You have already stated probably 30 times that u bought a spider and some other wholesale snakes many years ago for 14k... and you have stated multiple times that this purchase and the breeders you know make you an expert on the subject... I get all that... Don't particularly agree with it but I get it so no reason to repeat again.

That said all of us mere mortals including every breeder you have ever mentioned, acknowledge the fact that the wobbles are simply a trait of the spider morph. Sure some spiders obviously do it more then others... But every single spider out there.. Every single one wobbles to some extent.

If you don't want a dog with long hair and sensitive skin don't breed a golden retriever. And for gods sake if you do anyway, when the little puppy is born furry with itchy skin don't stick it in the freezer!

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Look buddy... You have already stated probably 30 times that u bought a spider and some other wholesale snakes many years ago for 14k... and you have stated multiple times that this purchase and the breeders you know make you an expert on the subject... I get all that... Don't particularly agree with it but I get it so no reason to repeat again.

That said all of us mere mortals including every breeder you have ever mentioned, acknowledge the fact that the wobbles are simply a trait of the spider morph. Sure some spiders obviously do it more then others... But every single spider out there.. Every single one wobbles to some extent.

If you don't want a dog with long hair and sensitive skin don't breed a golden retriever. And for gods sake if you do anyway, when the little puppy is born furry with itchy skin don't stick it in the freezer!

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Your last paragraph proves exactly what i was saying about you dont get it. I never said i put the animal down cause it had a wobble. I said the animal was so neuro it couldnt and wouldnt eat. Last resort with vet recommendation was to put it down. In the case of the caramels they had kinks so bad that they were laboring to breath and couldnt eat so again upon vet recomendation they were put down. You make it seem like im putting down a perfectlly healthy animal because it didnt have the right color or pattern. The reason i stated again about my experience was because the person i qouted was saying i didnt know what i was talking about regarding the spiders history when in fact i do. Would you let a honda mechanic work on your ford truck or would you rather have a someone with experience with ford trucks work on it? If some on here would listen to those with experience instead of people who have no idea what they are talking about then maybe they would learn something considering thats what the site is for.

Lol..A mechanic is a mechanic. When it boils down to it, an engine is an engine. They all use the same basic parts.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

would you let a honda mechanic work on your ford truck or would you rather have a someone with experience with ford trucks work on it?

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I'd rather have my mechanic at carmax fix it. He is the best regardless of make or model because he works on everything every day and is the best.

All spiders still have wobbles. :)

Lmao ok i get it. Some may not but i do. We can agree to dissagree. Ill let ya know what spider gene combos i produce this year and ill have plenty of no wobblers if ya want or need good stock

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Would you let a honda mechanic work on your ford truck or would you rather have a someone with experience with ford trucks work on it? If some on here would listen to those with experience instead of people who have no idea what they are talking about then maybe they would learn something considering thats what the site is for.

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As a general mechanic for the past 15+ years I will let that one slide since it doesnt pertain to ANYTHING here.
Though if you want to talk real shop I will rock your world:gj:

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Lmao ok i get it. Some may not but i do. We can agree to dissagree. Ill let ya know what spider gene combos i produce this year and ill have plenty of no wobblers if ya want or need good stock

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i am very interested in buying a spider with little to no wobble from you when you have some.

i have 2 adult females availible right now. perfect. no wobbles. and @pit. it was an analogy. i could care less how quick you can change a tire or fix a leaky radiator. i trade my rucks in before they hit 75000 miles so i hardly need a mechanic

A little reminder here regarding looking or advertising available animals

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14. No advertising outside of designated area without Administrator approval. “Designated area” is the For Sale/Trade/Adoption/Wanted Forum, and is free for our members limited use. All goods, services, or animals advertised in these spaces must be the property of and in possession of the member posting.

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Do you think i like to put em down? It affects my pocket when i cant sell an animal and have to put it down.

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See, your posts disturb me. Seems you have no thought for the animal, only your pocket. I do not breed nor sell for the money, if none of mine sold I would be fine with it because I would have more snakes in my collection. I do this because I love reptiles, and cannot imagine doing anything else honestly.

You know what, after reading through this again, I have to say, that I like how you ended up dealing with the situation snake lab. We may not all agree, but that's how progression is made. Right or wrong, I have to respect when someone realizes to agree to disagree.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

i have 2 adult females availible right now. perfect. no wobbles. and @pit. it was an analogy. i could care less how quick you can change a tire or fix a leaky radiator. i trade my rucks in before they hit 75000 miles so i hardly need a mechanic

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:O omg i wish... my car's on its last leg :( :tears: :rainon:

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Originally Posted by snake lab

i trade my rucks in before they hit 75000 miles so i hardly need a mechanic

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That is actually scary that you dont follow a maintenance schedule AND you think a mechanic does only tires and radiators.:O:O:O:O
Again neither here nor there:rolleyes:

@virus. thank you i am all about a good debate and i dont hold grudges especially on debates.
@pit. come on dude i know you dont just do tires im just givin ya a hard time. if i lived in texas id hit ya up if i needed a mechanic.

and finally @midsouth. will you please get off your hang up about the fact i put down a couple of snakes that couldnt eat because of neuro and a few caramels that were so kinked up they could hardly breathe. all of these were extreme cases and my vet told me this was the best thing to do. get over it. report me to peta or go back on their site. i did what needed to be done for the animals sake, do i have to repeat it again?

What the hell...? With some of the logic in this thread, people would keep a senior dog alive that can't run, can't see, and can't eat alive just because "they love them" so much that they don't want to lose them. Putting them down is the humane thing to do, not let them persist in their suffering.

SL, you did the right thing. +1 to you broski.

Whether you sell wobble free spiders is irrelevant, and people should stop nit picking. The concern is the well being of the snake, and if its starving to death because it cant coordinate during "meal time", then it's time to be gently put to sleep.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Salodin

What the hell...? With some of the logic in this thread, people would keep a senior dog alive that can't run, can't see, and can't eat alive just because "they love them" so much that they don't want to lose them. Putting them down is the humane thing to do, not let them persist in their suffering.

SL, you did the right thing. +1 to you broski.

Whether you sell wobble free spiders is irrelevant, and people should stop nit picking. The concern is the well being of the snake, and if its starving to death because it cant coordinate during "meal time", then it's time to be gently put to sleep.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk

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Thank you i knew someone understood.

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Whether you sell wobble free spiders is irrelevant, and people should stop nit picking. The concern is the well being of the snake, and if its starving to death because it cant coordinate during "meal time", then it's time to be gently put to sleep.

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Thing is, he made it out like if it had a bad wobble it went straight to the freezer without a chance

Snake Lab, their is no hang up. I am just trying to clear things up.

He obviously has trouble conveying his message across, but i can't hold it against him since not every one is gifted with words. Any one who can read between the lines with out bias can understand what he is saying, and he is saying he puts to sleep his animals that are too weak to survive with out assistance. He hasn't done this often, and there is no need to begrudge him of this, no reason to read into it any differently then putting down your dog who is too sick to eat on his own any more.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk

Their is no bias. I have seen extreme cases survive and be great feeders, although they had to be assist fed the first few meals. What you said may be true but I understood what he was saying just fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGy4g1qJdpo

This one is a pretty bad wobbler.

No problems man, I just don't like it when people gang up on a guy and beat him up for doing what is in most cases the right thing.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk

I understand, and in some cases it is and some it's not.

Midsouth. It wasnt me that made it sound like anything else except what i said from the start. It was everyone else jumpin me about it making it seem i put down wobblers. I said from the beginning i would only put enm down if it was severe enough to where the animal would not survive it. I know this thread got crazy but i had to respond to 5 people at a time. I am a very ethical person when it comes to animals. I love my reptiles. It kills me when i have to dispatch an animal but sometimes its necessary. In college i did some field work working with bioligists in the mid west studying cwd ( chronic waste disease) in deer. It is a a horrible disease that effects the animals neurologically. We dispatched over 60 animals in the wild because it was the only thing to do. It was horrible but had to be done. Sometimes it just has to be done.

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Originally Posted by mpkeelee

Does anybody think the neurological issue is what is preventing super spiders?

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Spider is a dominant gene ...

Have seen issues with possible homozygous spiders (not the same thing as a "super") but no one has proven it, and all spiders look the same.

IMO as far as my research has shown ALL spiders and spiders morphs "wobble". It can not be outbred. I have never had a problem. And I think its interesting to watch. To me I chose to believe it is not a defect but personality and character that only spiders share. They are unique to me.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

i have 2 adult females availible right now. perfect. no wobbles. and @pit. it was an analogy. i could care less how quick you can change a tire or fix a leaky radiator. i trade my rucks in before they hit 75000 miles so i hardly need a mechanic

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how much?
Also I do believe there are some with no wobbles because I have observed observed and observed my male spider het ghost and he never shows any simptoms

I don't see how it's not possible, unless some how scale patterns are related to brain health; but this is just guessing...based on colors on every other animal in the world lol.

I have learned from some semi extensive research that ALL spiders wobble its a matter of how noticable it is. Someone not knowing what to look for and having a spider or spider morph may think it does not have the wobble because it is such a subtle wobble. Also some spiders hatched appear to have no wobble yet develop it later in life and vice versa. Some spiders have it from birth and sometimes it decreases with age and some have it, it goes away and then comes back. I have also learned that the wobble can not be bred out. I guess it depends on how you've researched and what you have come to believe. Here's a link that I feel is the "majority vote" answer to the spider wobble theory.

http://www.arbreptiles.com/lastword/spider_wobble.shtml

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Originally Posted by Herpking

how much?

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Here there something I was not clear enough in my previous post?

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A little reminder here regarding looking or advertising available animals

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14. No advertising outside of designated area without Administrator approval. “Designated area” is the For Sale/Trade/Adoption/Wanted Forum, and is free for our members limited use. All goods, services, or animals advertised in these spaces must be the property of and in possession of the member posting.

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Take it to PM that is the LAST warning.