Is "The Truth" owed an apology?

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

For those who have been around BP's for a while there have been many rumors started by some bad experiences.

I remember hearing pied females don't eat or grow, you need to raise hets, bunch of poo poo. There was also a caramel females rumor that they don't breed, more poo poo.

There may very well be a problem with desert girls but until I see definitive proof it's just another rumor about a popular new morph just like all the other ones that have come and gone. I for one have no problem raising up desert females because the other side of the coin is there still may be a super! If that proves to be true then all the attention will swing in a totally different direction.

Just like the toffees we don't know what the facts are until more breeding's are done, time will tell.

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Female caramels do on occasion lay good eggs but the total of slugs per clutch always out weigh the fertile ones, if they go full term. Theres a post i seen on ReptileRadio that of all the females pictured you see mostly ALL Slugs and maybe 1-2 good eggs.

http://www.reptileradio.net/reptiler...ad.php?t=20146

Quote:

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

For those who have been around BP's for a while there have been many rumors started by some bad experiences.

I remember hearing pied females don't eat or grow, you need to raise hets, bunch of poo poo. There was also a caramel females rumor that they don't breed, more poo poo.

There may very well be a problem with desert girls but until I see definitive proof it's just another rumor about a popular new morph just like all the other ones that have come and gone. I for one have no problem raising up desert females because the other side of the coin is there still may be a super! If that proves to be true then all the attention will swing in a totally different direction.

Just like the toffees we don't know what the facts are until more breeding's are done, time will tell.

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"We" know the "facts" 100% for sure on Deserts. "We" being the main "players". BG is working on the Toffee "facts" right now...... and may be able to shed some light on that project shortly. He won't hide "The Truth" even if it hurts him.

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Originally Posted by Soterios

Then shouldn't we start a topic with some actual substance?

Keeping this thread alive is just feeding a guy who does nothing but troll your website.

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Hey....once in a while this "guy" gives some advice on heating and lighting.:P

BG is the man Ive said it before and will say it again, though irritating to some people. Good Knowledge with a comical twist.

Well that's debatable. All I see is a lot of him talking about his wealth of knowledge without actually revealing anything.

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Originally Posted by PolishPython

BG is the man Ive said it before and will say it again, though irritating to some people. Good Knowledge with a comical twist.

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Check is in the mail buddy.;)

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Originally Posted by spitzu

Well that's debatable. All I see is a lot of him talking about his wealth of knowledge without actually revealing anything.

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Does BG have to teach his fans EVERYTHING????? Can anyone read between the lines on here? :rage::rage:

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Does BG have to teach his fans EVERYTHING?????

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Yep.

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Can anyone read between the lines on here? :rage::rage:

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Nope.

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Originally Posted by spitzu

Yep.


Nope.

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Well he's too lazy to do the first right now..... maybe one of Big Gunns more intelligent fans can help you on the second. :D:D

I do believe wilomn prophesied this exact moment in post #6. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by spitzu

I do believe wilomn prophesied this exact moment in post #6. :rolleyes:

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Not for the first time and sadly not for the last.

Once a troll, always a troll. neil is nothing if not consistent.

#1
#2

Nothing else.

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Originally Posted by spitzu

I do believe wilomn prophesied this exact moment in post #6. :rolleyes:

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Big Gunns isn't really sure exactly what his obsessed #1 fan "prophesied", but BG now has a great fishing story of his own to tell.

Did any of you go fishing in a pond where there was said to be a huge fish that everyone was trying to catch? Big Gunns has. Well while you're fishing for this whopper you turn your back and then someone yells "hey buddy....your bobber is under". You turn around and notice that not only is it under....your pole is getting taken with it. You run to your rod and get a hold of it just before it slips off the dock. You pull back as hard as you can and quickly realize that you've got him on the line. That mythical whopper that people have told stories about for generations. Your only problem now is reeling him in. You know it won't be easy, but since I'm Big Gunns.....it won't be all that hard. ;):D

Thanks for pointing Big Gunns to post #6 Spitz. This is a tried and true tactic. If you can't discredit the message...you better try and discredit the person delivering it. Isn't this what defense attorneys do all the time? If he calls Big Gunns a troll.....again....maybe people won't listen to his message.

Big Gunns doesn't want to be right here really, but "the whopper" put him here when he "identified" him as "The truth"(HUUUUUGGGGGE MISTAKE). Since "The truth" was then bashed as a liar and other meanie things....Big Gunns had no choice but respond to defend his honor.;):D

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Not for the first time and sadly not for the last.

Once a troll, always a troll. neil is nothing if not consistent.

#1
#2

Nothing else.

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And so are you my friend. You "consistently" follow your idol wherever he posts. Big Gunns is starting the think you may be seriously obsessed. Do you need another signed poster for your wall?:P:D

Like Big Gunns said Judy. There is always a method to BG's madness. It usually looks like pure madness, but you should know by now that some mad people are pure genius.;):D Big Gunns obviously falls in that category. Sometimes BG does feel a leeetle sorry for those who underestimate him. It's a common problem. You would think the word would get out by now that it's a monstrous mistake.:D

So again my big "whopper". Let's here your side. Problems...no problems????? What do you and #94 know?

Sorry...let's hear your side my "big fish".

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Female caramels do on occasion lay good eggs but the total of slugs per clutch always out weigh the fertile ones, if they go full term. Theres a post i seen on ReptileRadio that of all the females pictured you see mostly ALL Slugs and maybe 1-2 good eggs.

http://www.reptileradio.net/reptiler...ad.php?t=20146

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There's also a thread here I need to dig up where someone started taking data on female caramels, and the slugs far out numbered viable eggs. I'll see if I can find it.

I've seen several posts about slugged out caramel females this year.

This isn't the thread I'm looking for, but the data on post 40 is similar to what I'm still looking for.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=1#post1572476

From the lack of evidence I have seen over the matter on desert females producing I have pretty much come to conclusion that there must be an issue with female deserts. Maybe in the next few months my thoughts on this will change if we ever do get pics and legitimate claims.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQFEY9RIRJA

;);):D

Big Gunns has requested a song for the "whopper" and others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvsX0...eature=related

Maybe the Flatline is a super desert? ;)

This is funny. Everyone needs to remember this.

There is always a level of truth to what Big Guns spits out. If you filter out the BS, sarcasm, attacks, there is always some level of truth to bits and pieces.

But, there is always motive as well. lmao

As far as I see it.

Desert females are still seen as 99.999% duds that if you get one clutch of eggs out of 100 females you should thank God?...WOW!!!!!!!

Desert just had a bad 5-6 years..... breeding young/smaller females, give them 30yrs to prove out they are duds! BUY DESEERTS!"...

Give me a BREAK!!!!!!!! The little guys should look at the way these big time breeders handle themselves because 99% of the time, they are the ones hidding info. Look how the toffees were handled. Right now, everyone with a toffee is either trying to unload them or cross them with the 15 albino combos they have. Spiders spinning...., how about caramels females? Have you seen female prices this year or for that fact males? The same will happen with Deserts. Females will be worthless and males will follow because what use is a good male when you females in the litter are selling for pet prices. Am I sad about all this. YES!!!!!!!!! Deserts look awesome, so do toffee's and champagns, well that is a matter of taste cause I just don't like them period.

So on that note....

Do I believe BG about deserts......You bet I do.
Do I believe BG about Champagn females......For sure.
Do I believe BG about the secret on bananas......For real.

I mean read between the lines people and look at what has happened in the past. There are still a lot more secrets to reveal as well which is the sad part. This is just scratching the surface.

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Originally Posted by LotsaBalls

Maybe the Flatline is a super desert? ;)

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Nope, but that's another story. After BG produces a few anyway.;)

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Originally Posted by Ace of Snakes

This is funny. Everyone needs to remember this.

There is always a level of truth to what Big Guns spits out. If you filter out the BS, sarcasm, attacks, there is always some level of truth to bits and pieces.

But, there is always motive as well. lmao

As far as I see it.

Desert females are still seen as 99.999% duds that if you get one clutch of eggs out of 100 females you should thank God?...WOW!!!!!!!

Desert just had a bad 5-6 years..... breeding young/smaller females, give them 30yrs to prove out they are duds! BUY DESEERTS!"...

Give me a BREAK!!!!!!!! The little guys should look at the way these big time breeders handle themselves because 99% of the time, they are the ones hidding info. Look how the toffees were handled. Right now, everyone with a toffee is either trying to unload them or cross them with the 15 albino combos they have. Spiders spinning...., how about caramels females? Have you seen female prices this year or for that fact males? The same will happen with Deserts. Females will be worthless and males will follow because what use is a good male when you females in the litter are selling for pet prices. Am I sad about all this. YES!!!!!!!!! Deserts look awesome, so do toffee's and champagns, well that is a matter of taste cause I just don't like them period.

So on that note....

Do I believe BG about deserts......You bet I do.
Do I believe BG about Champagn females......For sure.
Do I believe BG about the secret on bananas......For real.

I mean read between the lines people and look at what has happened in the past. There are still a lot more secrets to reveal as well which is the sad part. This is just scratching the surface.

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A couple things. BG sees nobody trying to "unload" Toffees. Everyone wants a male.... they just think they're gonna get it cheaper.....not yet. Kinda stupid to lower the price when they're more powerful than ever. Well....it looks like they may be. BG hasn't proven anything himself. This report is coming soon. You think this thread has caused some controversy....just wait until that report comes out. Heads may roll.

And what did BG say about Champ females? BG sleep posts a lot, but this one must have been a deep deep sleep because Bg doesn't remember squatolla.

You know what....come to think of it..... BG has yet to say one way or the other what's the deal with Desert females. He'd love to debate it though. BG does have all the facts needed.

Yes,

I noticed the actual info hadn't been posted yet in either thread . Get on with it. :fork:


dr dle

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Originally Posted by dr del

Yes,

I noticed the actual info hadn't been posted yet in either thread . Get on with it. :fork:


dr dle

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Getting a leeetle inpatient Doc? This thread hasn't really even gotten started yet. Is there any BG fans out there that want to do a leeetle extra credit work for him and find all the threads where people posted their breeding Deserts and their Desert babies. This will help BG a lot.:gj:

Yes, I'd love to hear the post, BG, :gj: I've seen you post threads like this before and it tends to end up being true. After a bit of teasing the members :P


But I'm very curious about what you and whoever you are hinting about know about this matter. I'm waiting patiently :D

Big Gunns,

Can I ask you not to quote peoples posts from other forums like that?

This isn't really the proper place for it and it skirts far to close to the following rules for my personal comfort.

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Originally Posted by Site F.A.Q.

3. No Hate Speak. This includes, but is not limited to: cursing; threats of violence; racial, gender, religious, or sexual slurs; personal attacks; and speech intended to cause or further a "flame war" or personal vendetta. This includes vindictive use of the Reputation System and Private Messages. Ultimately, it will be up to the staff (the mods and ultimately the admins) to determine if any given post or thread has crossed these lines.

12. Links or text with the purpose of recruiting members to competing sites are not allowed. Linking to other sources for the purposes of sharing something unavailable at BP.net and/or for the purposes of promoting reasonable and appropriate discussion are allowed. However, links to other forums for the purposes of slamming the site, an individual, or other inflammatory action are not allowed.

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If you feel there is proven case to answer about any individuals then the proper place to put them would be the inquiries/ feedback forum.

But at this point with no evidence laid out for anyone to respond to or rebut I do not think it is fair to anyone to allow such posts.

I don't think anyone of us would like it if it happened to them on another forum so I see no reason for us to allow it here.


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

Big Gunns,

Can I ask you not to quote peoples posts from other forums like that?

This isn't really the proper place for it and it skirts far to close to the following rules for my personal comfort.



If you feel there is proven case to answer about any individuals then the proper place to put them would be the inquiries/ feedback forum.

But at this point with no evidence laid out for anyone to respond to or rebut I do not think it is fair to anyone to allow such posts.

I don't think anyone of us would like it if it happened to them on another forum so I see no reason for us to allow it here.


dr del

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Well BG will have you know that BG asked someone in red whether or not BP.net could handle this type of thread before he posted it. Apparently that's not going to be the case. Oh well....he tried fans....but it looks like bringing out "The Truth" may be a leeeetle too much for things around here. Wish it wasn't, but it now appears so.

BG will have to go back to helping people with heating and lighting. The real important stuff. ;):D Well....maybe not. BG will have to see. Clearly though if that post was too much..... what BG has to say after that will go waaaaaayyyy over the terms of the TOS. Funny though. It would have been all factual "Truth", but some would lie to say it wasn't.

One last thing. That leeeetle sentence you highlighted in the TOS has ABSOLUTELY NO MERIT with my posts. This is not some "personal vendetta"....BG does not want to do this. This is also not some "flame war". BG is trying to help his fellow consumers with who knows what and when they knew it. How does that apply at all BG asks? Just because it looks like that may be the case to you Doc "from the outside", it does not mean it's the case. It's 100% is not the case.

However....the last sentence you highlighted might apply. Unfortunately for the members of BP.net for this reason BG now sees he can't finish this thread the way it needs to be finished(maybe). BG did ask someone in red first though. At least you have to give him that "powers that be".

Is pointing out "hypocrisy" considered "slamming" though?

bg... you know what I say... Blow the roof off this place with the truth... lets have at it... lets see what you know and lets see what the real truth is... :)

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Originally Posted by JasonG

bg... you know what I say... Blow the roof off this place with the truth... lets have at it... lets see what you know and lets see what the real truth is... :)

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I will second that,i have about15 deserts and desert combos and have held back all my females this season because nobody wants to buy them.am i wasting my time with this project :(

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Well BG will have you know that BG asked someone in red whether or not BP.net could handle this type of thread before he posted it. Apparently that's not going to be the case.

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Neil, having an admin tell you it's ok to start a discussion about desert breeding issues is NOT the same thing as being given leave to play whatever games you wish however you wish to play them.

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Oh well....he tried fans....but it looks like bringing out "The Truth" may be a leeeetle too much for things around here. Wish it wasn't, but it now appears so.

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We're still waiting for your "truth" Neil. If you want to bring it, then bring it. This is NOT a case of "shooting the messenger"...this is a case of the messenger teasing the person he's supposed to give the message to. "Nya nya! I've got a message for you and you're not gonna like it but I'm not gonna tell you what it iissss!" :rolleyes: Don't be surprised when patience for that sort of game wears very thin very fast.

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Just because it looks like that may be the case to you Doc "from the outside", it does not mean it's the case. It's 100% is not the case.

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It DOES look like that is the case. And looks are all we have to go on. We're not going to try and read your mind.

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Is pointing out "hypocrisy" considered "slamming" though?

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The way you're going about it? Yes. Third party anonymous quotes are not going to cut it.

If you have something to say, then say it. WE are not stopping you. But we do NOT have to tolerate being a stage for anyone's drama-inducing game play.

BG, I guess your attempt at calling out certain people to argue with you has failed, so now you're going to call it quits... I think Robyn has said all he needed to say about this subject on another forum, which I will link below. Mods, if this doesn't agree with the TOS, feel free to delete.

Post #234 in this thread at the BLBC: http://www.reptileradio.net/reptiler...ad.php?t=29653

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Originally Posted by Robyn@SYR

Michigan- talk about breeders that rip off customers, that is fine. Do it all day long, but don't lump PE in that group, or make such insinuations, that is wrong. There are plenty of scumbags in the reptile industry, but our breeding has nothing to do with that.

Anthony- I know you support us, and I appreciate that : )

But I can't control what other folks are doing, or not doing, and I don't have any responsibility for what folks were doing, or not doing, with Deserts before we got them. I know that since we have started working with them, interest has exploded. It has only been a few seasons.

I know that ten years ago, I would have been thrilled to see a virgin female breed by the fifth year. In 2011, folks get all uptight if a female doesn't breed by the second or third year.

This conversation/thread is all over the place, literally. Here, BP.net, KS.com, I don't remember what was written where. Here is my recap of thoughts : )

None of the females that we received with our first group of Deserts are ever likely to breed. They might not even break 1400 grams. Leave it at that.

The females that we have hatched out here at Pro Exotics have grown and done fantastically. Beautiful, strong, great weight females. In the spring of 2011, some anonymous douchebag claimed that all Desert females stayed small and scrawny. I posted pics of two of our growing females that were 1500 and 1700 grams.

Those females, a few months later, are now 2200+ grams. They continue to thrive and grow. They are the largest Desert females that we have.

They have been copping, and follicle size is nice, 12-15mm. That is prime time.

I am confident that they will continue to thrive, and that they will breed. We get eggs every month of the year. All females don't cycle in the same 2 months, it is spread out. There is nothing I can do to "force" them to hurry up.

So why does it need 2 more years to prove out? I guess number one because it has already been proven, but folks want "more". Ok.

You yourself wanted some type of magic guarantee deal. Ok. I offered you that. Do you also want to stipulate that the proof must come within 3 months? Come on : )

Guys like Marc Bailey, Dan Wolfe, and some dude named Ralph Davis are working with Deserts, but are a year or two behind us. Their males have been doing amazing things. But I am also excited to see what their females do. Don't you want to give them time to get females up to size and breeding?

I really don't understand the whole "prove it now or it doesn't exist" philosophy. Breeding snakes seemed WAY harder in 1995 than it is now, just by the development of knowledge and technique. I think folks need to gain some time perspective : )

As for other breeders that have gotten clutches but haven't posted pictures here. So what? Online forums are for folks that like online forums. Lots of breeders and hobbyists don't participate online, and not only do they not care what online folks are saying "about them", they don't even know it exists. That's fine, I totally understand. I have a hard time myself just staying moderately current with the handful of Ball python forums, much less monitors, uros, ratsnakes, gilas, boas, Facebook and now Google+. Ugh.

Larry's conversation with the Desert breeder that uses no supplemental heat and got a couple of clutches? Apparently that was a casual conversation and the guy mentioned his Desert clutches. He DIDN'T EVEN KNOW there was discussion about Desert females.

This is a great place to hang out, post, and stay in touch with other breeders, as well as the haps, but LOTS of stuff exists outside of this site, and lots of reptile stuff happens off line altogether.

Just because my mom won't get on Facebook doesn't mean she isn't real : )

If our Desert females didn't grow, I would be concerned. If they dropped dead, I would be concerned. I have seen small females slug out, that gave me concern, and we pushed our target breeding weight to 2000+ grams. Ok. I have G Stripe females, Pied females, and various combo females that haven't bred, yet are 5 or 6 years old. That doesn't really give me a lot of concern either, that is the variability of individuals in a breeding group.

We have a "weird" Pastel female that took 7 or 8 years to finally get to size, much less breed, and now she has thrown clutches 3 out of 5 years. The "weird" part hasn't really come through yet, but that isn't the point there : )

I am super anxious to breed a Desert female, for sure. I'll be disappointed if it doesn't happen here in house in 2011. But if threads like this didn't exist, I wouldn't give it much more thought other than "try again for 2012".

Mike Powell beat us to breeding Desert females, the KS.com guy did as well. Marc, Dan and Ralph might all beat us there. That's fine, they are all great breeders.

I am confident it will happen. Females look too strong, too healthy, and too cooperative not to throw good eggs. Plus, it has been done before.

I know we will breed the Desert females successfully before we breed the Boelen's females, and we have been trying to do those for 15 years. Talk about frustrating! (and my number one fave python : )

You should take me up on that offer Anthony, the project is awesome and we continue to hatch out super cool combos with them!

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I'd be willing to give it another couple of years before agreeing to a final verdict on this subject. However, it is good to be cautious on Desert females at this point considering the lack of evidence.

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

This is also not some "flame war". BG is trying to help his fellow consumers with who knows what and when they knew it. How does that apply at all BG asks? Just because it looks like that may be the case to you Doc "from the outside", it does not mean it's the case. It's 100% is not the case.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wiki

A flame war results when one or more users engages in provocative responses to the originally posted flamebait. Flame wars often draw in many users (including those trying to diffuse the flame war) and can overshadow regular forum discussion if left unchecked.

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Since you have not helped your fellow consumers with who knows what and when they knew it, I don't see how this is not a flame war. Post #1 was the bait was it not?

You used to be pretty good at this, why are your skills lacking lately? While I did think the whole "it would break the TOS" was clever (I was wondering how you were going to back out of it), but I think you played it too long and too many people are onto you. obvious troll can't be obvious.

Since there are other forums we rate trolls, I give you a 4/10 on this one, for the clever out and the couple people you did manage to get mad, but the low score comes from being too obvious. Normally your in the 8+ range. Step it up man.

So, the big gum flapper is wussing out again eh?

Not a surprise, not at all.

Once a worthless troll, always a worthless troll.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

So, the big gum flapper is wussing out again eh?

Not a surprise, not at all.

Once a worthless troll, always a worthless troll.

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Don't say I didn't call that the first day either one of his threads started.

Two major subjects when it comes to breeding, and he's yet to answer either one of them. Go figure. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by JLC

Neil, having an admin tell you it's ok to start a discussion about desert breeding issues is NOT the same thing as being given leave to play whatever games you wish however you wish to play them.



We're still waiting for your "truth" Neil. If you want to bring it, then bring it. This is NOT a case of "shooting the messenger"...this is a case of the messenger teasing the person he's supposed to give the message to. "Nya nya! I've got a message for you and you're not gonna like it but I'm not gonna tell you what it iissss!" :rolleyes: Don't be surprised when patience for that sort of game wears very thin very fast.



It DOES look like that is the case. And looks are all we have to go on. We're not going to try and read your mind.



The way you're going about it? Yes. Third party anonymous quotes are not going to cut it.

If you have something to say, then say it. WE are not stopping you. But we do NOT have to tolerate being a stage for anyone's drama-inducing game play.

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Like BG said. There is a method to his madness and it will become clear shortly. Hard as it may to believe "this" was all needed so that Big Gunns could end this discussion once and for all. BG understands that everyone is getting a leeetle impatient, but good things comes to those who wait. :D

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Originally Posted by MarkieJ

BG, I guess your attempt at calling out certain people to argue with you has failed, so now you're going to call it quits... I think Robyn has said all he needed to say about this subject on another forum, which I will link below. Mods, if this doesn't agree with the TOS, feel free to delete.

Post #234 in this thread at the BLBC: http://www.reptileradio.net/reptiler...ad.php?t=29653



I'd be willing to give it another couple of years before agreeing to a final verdict on this subject. However, it is good to be cautious on Desert females at this point considering the lack of evidence.

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BG words were. "BG now sees he can't finish this thread the way it needs to be finished(maybe). " BG never said he was going to "quit"

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Since you have not helped your fellow consumers with who knows what and when they knew it, I don't see how this is not a flame war. Post #1 was the bait was it not?

You used to be pretty good at this, why are your skills lacking lately? While I did think the whole "it would break the TOS" was clever (I was wondering how you were going to back out of it), but I think you played it too long and too many people are onto you. obvious troll can't be obvious.

Since there are other forums we rate trolls, I give you a 4/10 on this one, for the clever out and the couple people you did manage to get mad, but the low score comes from being too obvious. Normally your in the 8+ range. Step it up man.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by wilomn

So, the big gum flapper is wussing out again eh?

Not a surprise, not at all.

Once a worthless troll, always a worthless troll.

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Yah know what. BG just WIKI'd what an internet "troll"is....and guess what. BG fits the description perfectly, but there is one HUGEdifference when it comes to Big Gunns. Most Trolls do not have the substance to their posts that Big Gunns has. BG has come north to save the family from the hurricane, but he is going to blow the roof off the ball-python community very soon. Is there a conspiracymany of you have asked. Your dang skippy there is and BG is sick of it. BG no longer cares if any "snake friends" are mad at him for exposing it. BG is gonna do it and let the chips fall where they may. :explosion:explosion

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wilomn

So, the big gum flapper is wussing out again eh?

Not a surprise, not at all.

Once a worthless troll, always a worthless troll.

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I've never disagreed with anything you've said, and this is no exception. I'm still
curious to know about the 'truth' about the deserts because they're a great morph, but my patience is finite.

if niel (and I only say that because I refuse to refer to anyone as AC/DC song) has any helpful information, it would be much appreciated. otherwise, I assume we'll return to business as usual.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Hedgehog

Don't say I didn't call that the first day either one of his threads started.

Two major subjects when it comes to breeding, and he's yet to answer either one of them. Go figure. :rolleyes:

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It's almost as easy as shooting pigeons in NYC. BG is really having a hard time not getting to the end of his thread, but it will be oh so much sweeter when he does with you guys making BG's life so easy. :rofl::rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wwmjkd

I've never disagreed with anything you've said, and this is no exception. I'm still
curious to know about the 'truth' about the deserts because they're a great morph, but my patience is finite.

if niel (and I only say that because I refuse to refer to anyone as AC/DC song) has any helpful information, it would be much appreciated. otherwise, I assume we'll return to business as usual.

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That "truth about Deserts" must be the "substance" that BG is talking about huh?;)

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

That "truth about Deserts" must be the "substance" that BG is talking about huh?;)

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ideally. I am not naive enough to doubt you, but I'm also tired of checking this thread daily. I don't think you would taunt anyone needlessly or brag about opinions over facts, but the modus operandi has worn thin.

Guys he hasn't had anything to contribute nor will he have anything to contribute you guys are just egging on a conceded, arrogant, POS who is worthless when it comes to having a civilized conversation. He can't go two sentences without referring to himself and something he has said or done but has he actually given any proof? No... Nothing at all Because he has nothing of value. He's going to keep claiming he has this "info" for weeks as Long as we keep giving this loser our attention. It's time to contribute or STFU. And oh what u want to keep hating on me for not having hundreds of snakes or multi thousand dollar snakes? I don't care it just shows what kind of person you are. You could care less about all of this stuff we love you just want the attention and if the mods are really going to let you continue to do this then they are gonna lose respect from a lot of people.

BG has been at this for 2 months XD How long shall we wait?
they be smaller ball pythons then normal so they slug out when it comes to bigger males? just throwing random out there since nothing is coming up. :weirdface

for someone who says they have all the answers and you're waiting for this thread to end just end it? stop dragging it out

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

That "truth about Deserts" must be the "substance" that BG is talking about huh?;)

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... This intrigues me. If I wanted to play the BG "read between the lines" game, I'd suggest that he is insinuating that maybe there's some magic bullet -- some external factor that the desert gals are lacking -- that some breeders have shined on, without which the desert gals are slug-factories ... And I don't mean temperature, as was suggested on the BLBC thread. I mean, like, OvSynch for snakes -- ie, a hormone protocol.

... Not a bad idea, if it's true, but is it "cheating?"

If it isn't true, though, I'll say that in my mind desert female fertility, like caramel female fertility, is going to come down to statistics. In the thread that Robin posted a link to I posted my tally of all of the caramel female clutches I could find on the Internet with actual numeric data, and it gave me about a 2:1 ratio of slugs:eggs total.

Does that mean that caramel females are totally sterile? Nope. It just, to me, means that they are significantly less than "fertile." Sub-fertile would be the best way to describe it.

... Maybe caramel females' fertility could be improved with a little external hormonal support? :rolleyes:

... At any rate, my guess is that the desert girls will have a similar fate. I don't think, based on skimming the BLBC thread, that they will be entirely sterile. (I also think that the OP of this thread has implied, a few times, that they aren't flat-out dud factories ... It's more complicated than that.) However, I don't think that they are going to be fertility queens, either, because if they were, we'd know it by now. If it were as easy to raise up and breed a desert girl as it is spiders, pastels, mojaves, etc., the Internet would be crawling with pictures of desert females on eggs with the tagline "neener neener neener" ... But it isn't. (And yes, I know not every breeder with a quality collection posts on the Internet, but still ...)

Does that mean I won't get into the desert project eventually? Hell no, I think deserts are gorgeous. It does mean that I'll only pick up a male, though, and what I do with holdback females will depend on further information revealed.

So ...

This thread, and a couple others like it are being locked. The reason for this is because these threads are leading to some very serious allegations being alluded to without any shred of substantive evidence. BP.net will not be party to libel.

The administrators of BP.net are not afraid to discuss what could be some high-dollar issues regarding the breeding and marketing potential of certain morphs, and new threads will be started to continue the discussion. These threads will NOT be places for conspiracy innuendos or back-handed comments about any individual or business. They are NOT venues for "calling out" anyone.

If a member of this site has a SPECIFIC charge to bring against a specific individual or business, this must be done properly in the Inquiry Forum. Full names must be disclosed and all known evidence laid out thoroughly so the issue may be properly addressed, rebutted and defended.

We will no longer tolerate these sorts of insinuations an innuendos and doing so may earn very serious infraction points.