Harlequin Wide-Stripe

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Originally Posted by Robyn@SYR

The best "plain" PE Stripes appear like this:
http://www.vintageredline.com/wp-con...pe%2011-09.jpg

And the best one yet, hatched in 2010:
http://www.vintageredline.com/wp-con...ale%204-11.jpg

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Geeez Man That Stuff is Hot... sometimes This what turn me on in BP the most "wild type" colors but crazy pattern variations....

Those are awesome Animals :gj::gj::gj:

Lol oh my... this is getting interesting

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Originally Posted by Ntume

...Here's a picture of the animal she now calls ' quinstripe '

**picture removed**...

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Beautiful!!!! I want one!!!

That looks like a Desert PE Stripe. Cool looking.

I will try and take a couple more pics today, including a Ghost Tri Stripe-ish animal.

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Originally Posted by Robyn@SYR

This is where it turned weird a couple of years ago. We started hatching out stuff from this same Double Het Ghost PE Stripe line that started looking like Tri Stripes.

And the best one yet, hatched in 2010:
http://www.vintageredline.com/wp-con...ale%204-11.jpg

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On the VMS Website, they are listed as a co-dominant mutation with a super form called "Side-stripe."

Do you think your snake could be a super form of the wide-stripe?

You had said that you sometimes produce these (harlequins/PE's) without the stripe... I'm wondering, could the Double het Ghost PE Stripes have been a co-dom PE stripe(not showing the stripe) het ghost as opposed to having double het animals? And this animal pictured is in fact a super form of the PE Stripe/harlequin, 66% pos het ghost?

Haha I'm reaching here but its the only way I can piece it together that makes any sense... unless theres more than one line being played with here, yours being recessive and others being co-dom or polymorphic or what-have-you.

Maybe I'm confused on what the breeding was that produced that snake, if I'm reading right it was Double het Ghost PE Stripe x Double het Ghost PE Stripe?

Yes, the Ghost PE Stripe is from a Double Het Ghost PE Stripe to Double Het Ghost PE Stripe, where both parents look normal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robyn@SYR

Yes, the Ghost PE Stripe is from a Double Het Ghost PE Stripe to Double Het Ghost PE Stripe, where both parents look normal.

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And the Tri-Stripes as well?

Well i took a look at all the wides today and all of them have 3 features in common.

1. blushed out heads
2. each side of there tails has a black line kinda like the "het pied" maker
3. dot in the stripe on lower part of the body

Also saw some newly hatched combo's that I wasn't even aware of. Again some very cool stuff and some not so much. Next year will be an interesting season for sure as my friend is devoting all his females to the project.

So we now have het albino's, het pied's, and het clown wide stripes.

Meeistom the line you're working with is co-dominant, correct? And were they acquired through VMS? Oh an when you say a dot in the lower part of the body, do you mean closest to the tail or head?

The line was from VMS from what i've seen it's not a co dom or dom it's an incomplete dom. The dots are on the lower half toward the tail. The combos don't have it but all the non combos have it. Next season at least 2 female wide stripes will be bred to wide stripe males so we should find out more info then.

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Originally Posted by meeistom

The line was from VMS from what i've seen it's not a co dom or dom it's an incomplete dom. The dots are on the lower half toward the tail. The combos don't have it but all the non combos have it. Next season at least 2 female wide stripes will be bred to wide stripe males so we should find out more info then.

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Its strange to me that your friend has hatched 1st gen visual offspring, but the info that Robyn@SYR has posted indicates that they have a recessive gene at play.

You got your original wide-stripes from VMS and VMS got their original wides from PE. Yet it seems like theres 2 different lines being "dinked" with.

Maybe there is more than one morph involved here, or maybe its not that easy. :confused:

Awesome thread. Thanks everyone for adding info and thanks Dwerp for starting it. I just read from where I last did and all sorts of great info is in here. :gj:

Regards,

B

I have to agree there does seem to be more at play here. Going to take a long time to sort this out. We have second and third gen animals and each generation has produced wides. In two years we will have about 14 females and over 30 males so the pool will be bigger and hopefully more answers.

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Originally Posted by Drewp

Its strange to me that your friend has hatched 1st gen visual offspring, but the info that Robyn@SYR has posted indicates that they have a recessive gene at play.

You got your original wide-stripes from VMS and VMS got their original wides from PE. Yet it seems like theres 2 different lines being "dinked" with.

Maybe there is more than one morph involved here, or maybe its not that easy. :confused:

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We have seen it in first gen as well. But also from "hets" that are "normal looking".

But what is "normal looking"? Is a single two inch section of striping really normal, or is it just a really low visual of the PE Stripe?

I see more striping in lots of completely normal and unrelated animals than I do in some of our "het" PE Stripes. That is what makes it confusing.

It definitely exhibits a dominant style production, but it is so wildly inconsistent and fairly unpredictable that it leaves me confused.

Well I know someone who has a female we sold as a normal from a wide stripe clutch. She was bred this year and laid 4 nice eggs that are due to hatch very soon. That might help answer if the non visual are in fact "hets" If a wide stripe comes out then it's another piece to a very confusing puzzle.

Ohh That Tread make me Want get Harlequin female .. and I believe Outback have one on kingsnake for sale :bolt:

Edit: Uhhh.. not anymore :(

On a different note just got a text that the wide x cinnamon clutch hatched out it was 1 wide, 2 cinnamon, and 2 normal. No combo. 6 more clutches to go now hopefully some combo's will come out of it.

If you can find a female i'd pick it up just to dink with. I got out as I can't afford any long term projects right now. I'm hoping next year when things have settled for me i'll get back in.

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Originally Posted by Aes_Sidhe

Ohh That Tread make me Want get Harlequin female .. and I believe Outback have one on kingsnake for sale :bolt:

Edit: Uhhh.. not anymore :(

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by meeistom

On a different note just got a text that the wide x cinnamon clutch hatched out it was 1 wide, 2 cinnamon, and 2 normal. No combo. 6 more clutches to go now hopefully some combo's will come out of it.

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Nice! I'd love to see pics of that clutch. ;):)

Ok, some new pics from today. Males and females here, Ghosts, "hets", and PE Stripes, all from the PE Stripe line, including our DH Ghost PE Stripe line. FOUR DIFFERENT clutches represented here, all 2011 hatch : )

3 Ghost PE Stripes, all separate clutches:
http://www.vintageredline.com/wp-con...rio%205-11.jpg

These are "hets" or just PE Stripes. The two on the left hint at the Tri Stipe-ish animals we have hatched. The third is what I would visually sell as normal (or possibly as "het" PE Stripe), the last is something I definitely visually identify as part of the PE Stripe line.
http://www.vintageredline.com/wp-con...urs%205-11.jpg

Sorry, those Striped Ghosts are two different clutches.

The female "normal" I sold did not produce any stripes from a 4 egg clutch. She was bred to a normal male 100% het for albino. Not sure what this tells us on the genetic make up of stripes.

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Originally Posted by Drewp

A friend of mine has a 1.1 pair of harlequin wide-stripes that he bought at the 2009 Canadian Reptile Breeders Expo (CRBE) from a breeder who attended the show from the US. They are awesome looking and I've been doing some research on them for the past couple hours... most threads end in "more breeding needs to be done."

I found a youtube video of a harlequin wide-stripe x mojave and it was awesome looking... but haven't had much luck finding info on how clutches have turned out or if anyone has tried to prove out a line of them... an old website said something about a harlequin side-stripe when bred together but no pictures or links or anything and it hadn't been updated in a long time.

About a month ago I picked up this 1600g virgin 2008 female... looks very similar, but his are a little darker on the sides. Either way this girl was a steal for only $150! :gj:

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._4609772_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2990879_n.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3681006_n.jpg

Sooo anyways I'm just beating an old drum here but has anybody got these, working with them, have a picture of a super, etc? Any info on them would be much appreciated :)

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I got this female a couple of weeks ago and suspected that she might be a new morph i put a pic of her up here and a couple people said she looked like a Harlequin Wide stripe heres a couple pics let me know what you think! Im going to breed her to my lesser male hopefully ill get something similar to that mojave and Harlequin cross you were talking about.:):)

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/show...mageuser=22034

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/show...mageuser=22034

It's possible it's a wide stripe. It's impossible to know until you breed it.

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Originally Posted by meeistom

It's possible it's a wide stripe. It's impossible to know until you breed it.

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Do your wide stripes have clear bellies?

Yes they do have clear bellies. There normal looking offspring also have clear bellies.

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Originally Posted by meeistom

Yes they do have clear bellies. There normal looking offspring also have clear bellies.

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This is what my males belly looks like. I don't think I have a wide stripe
http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/s...1/IMG_0666.jpg
http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/s...inkerbelly.jpg

Most likely not the line i've seen. Breed it and find out if it's a new line. You never know did you breed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meeistom

Most likely not the line i've seen. Breed it and find out if it's a new line. You never know did you breed.

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Yes I did breed him. I posted a link of the results at the begining of this thread. Look at post # 8

They are most likely striped normals then.

I thought I would post some pics of a few wides.

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...thons/B4-1.jpg

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...thons/B3-1.jpg

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/B31Belly.jpg

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...ythons/B15.jpg

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...ythons/B12.jpg

Could this be the super form????

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...pythons/A2.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meeistom

Could this be the super form????

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...pythons/A2.jpg

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I want it!! :O

Wow thats awesome looking now you have to breed that one lol

Well I do plan to breed her at some point. She is a terrible eater she eats a rat pink once every other month or so. She was from a wide by a WC dink I imported. She was the only egg that hatched.

We hatched a clutch with our stripe female with a Yb. The pics are already in another thread but I will just repost them here to make it easy. I am not going to post pics of all the babies, just a few.

Mom
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...triped__2_.jpg


Babies 2011
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...1/100_2671.jpg

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...1/100_2682.jpg

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...1/100_2695.jpg

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...1/100_2708.jpg

Anyways she laid a 9 egg clutch and one was unfertile. All of the babies are phenomenal. Next year we are going to back breed one of the males to mom and then one of the females back to dad when she is ready. Then will probably breed dad and mom together again if she is ready to go again then.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

We hatched a clutch with our stripe female with a Yb. The pics are already in another thread but I will just repost them here to make it easy. I am not going to post pics of all the babies, just a few.

Mom
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...triped__2_.jpg


Babies 2011
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...1/100_2671.jpg

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...1/100_2682.jpg

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...1/100_2695.jpg

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...1/100_2708.jpg

Anyways she laid a 9 egg clutch and one was unfertile. All of the babies are phenomenal. Next year we are going to back breed one of the males to mom and then one of the females back to dad when she is ready. Then will probably breed dad and mom together again if she is ready to go again then.

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Do they have clear bellies? BTW Mom and the babies look awesome

Yaron, I believe it is bang out of order for u to guess on the genes of my quinstripe!! and more out of order to publicly use a picture of my quinstripe without asking me permission for it!! the father of my quinstripe is an animal that u cannot guess, I have said what I wanted to say in order to keep the genes to myself.

I would like to ask the owner or a mioderator of this forum to remove the picture that is posted here by ntume (or yaron) without my permission.

tnx

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ntume

On the dutch forums there's a lady with a yellowbelly harlequin, but it may possibly be a fire harlequin because of a multi sired clutch.

Her female ovulated again this year, and some more breeding trials need to be done I guess.

Here's a picture of the animal she now calls ' quinstripe '

**picture removed**
Copyright Bumblebee (Jamie)

Groet,

Yaron

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by bumblebee

Yaron, I believe it is bang out of order for u to guess on the genes of my quinstripe!! and more out of order to publicly use a picture of my quinstripe without asking me permission for it!! the father of my quinstripe is an animal that u cannot guess, I have said what I wanted to say in order to keep the genes to myself.

I would like to ask the owner or a mioderator of this forum to remove the picture that is posted here by ntume (or yaron) without my permission.

tnx

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While I agree that it is in poor taste to use someone else's pictures without their permission (at least he gave you credit for it) ...and it has been removed at your request....I fail to see the assault to your privacy or "secrets" when you've already publicly stated the genetics of the animal on another site. :confused:

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Originally Posted by chago11

Do they have clear bellies? BTW Mom and the babies look awesome

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The babies are actually YB from their dad so they have nice clear bellies with orange bleeding into the belly and the typical YB speckling on the sides.

Can't wait for breeding season... long time away still... might not be the most financially exciting project but I'm stoked to be working with wide-stripes. Probably going to pair her with my buddies wide-stripe male... or a Fire or Lesser... probably not my Lemon Blast, he'll have a normal and a pastel ready to go though.

First season breeding snakes... just hope to get a clutch on the ground. :D

Any news anyone? My female is putting a bit more weight on, tagged me a couple days ago for stealing her poop lol

i dont know but i found a male on kingsnake this one looks like a granite one too and look at his belly!!
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=861941

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Originally Posted by python_addict

i dont know but i found a male on kingsnake this one looks like a granite one too and look at his belly!!
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=861941

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yea that belly is crazy looking

gone, or is it just that I don't have a kingsnake account?

Nope, the ad has expired. Was a nice looking animal.

yeah the snake was bought but i wish i could have gotten him

Ouuh, what a shame that i didnt found this thread earlier. Im from germany and maybe the only one here that is in to the harlequin project. I got w clutches over the last 2 years from my harlequin female. Everytime i got visible offspring.

2009 it was harlequin x pinstripe and also x yb. 3 Pins and one "normal" hatched.
One Pin was clearly a cross, the "normal" could be YB Harlequin. I will test this year:

"normal" Offspring:

http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/2589/9nf66oti_jpg.htm
http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/2589/h7r7b27x_jpg.htm

Harlequin Pin: (next to normal pin sib)
http://s3.directupload.net/file/d/2291/gp8pey99_jpg.htm

2010 it was x Mojave.
Harmony (My name for Harlequin Mojave) next to Mojave sib:

[IMG]http://s1.directupload.net/images/110718/rj4mts94.jpg[/IMG]

Here is a normal Harlequin from the same clutch. (next to a normal from a different clutch)

[IMG]http://s7.directupload.net/images/110718/r49uqy8x.jpg[/IMG]

You can see the intense color. Its orange and just amazing.

Pic of Mom:

http://s3.directupload.net/file/d/2113/kzvb8gx5_jpg.htm


Mon is direct from Africa. So maybe it is a different line. The Harmony (Harlequin Mojave) is the same like amirs harlequin Mojave. But i never saw his Harlequins.

So here are my thoughts:

- Harlequin, or at least my line, is dominant or co-dominant. I got 4 Eggs in the inkubator right now. Hopeing to see a super?
- My Harlequins are not "wide-stripe".
- What i can tell is that the Harlequin gene works like a colorpusher. The Crosses are just amazing in color and blushings. A Harmony next to a Mojave is easy to tell even if you have never seen one before.
- There are many, many snakes out there that look like harlequins or similiar. But not many are really genetic. So that makes it so hard to get into the project.
- Markers: Dots or Keyholes. Belly - White with black line on both sides (like described before)m blushed out head (rusty look), and a "look" i have no words for in english :D

Thanks, Sito

do you have pictures of the original parents that you began your projects with? i love the color contrasts between the pins and mojaves very pretty

Awesome thanks for posting, I am going to be pairing my Lemon Blast male with my female harlequin* (original pic in this thread) - got my fingers crossed on a crazy looking Harlequin Lemon Blast. :) Would be pretty cool to hatch out a Worlds first in my first time breeding balls lol.

The more I look into this, the more I think that the wide-stripe is a common occurence in harlequins but not necessarily always present. I also think that there are more than one line of them being passed off as "Harlequin, Wide-Stripe, VMS Stripe, what have you" and hopefully through more breeding projects we will see just what the heck is going on with these genes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iurast

Ouuh, what a shame that i didnt found this thread earlier. Im from germany and maybe the only one here that is in to the harlequin project. I got w clutches over the last 2 years from my harlequin female. Everytime i got visible offspring.

2009 it was harlequin x pinstripe and also x yb. 3 Pins and one "normal" hatched.
One Pin was clearly a cross, the "normal" could be YB Harlequin. I will test this year:

"normal" Offspring:

http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/2589/9nf66oti_jpg.htm
http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/2589/h7r7b27x_jpg.htm

Harlequin Pin: (next to normal pin sib)
http://s3.directupload.net/file/d/2291/gp8pey99_jpg.htm

2010 it was x Mojave.
Harmony (My name for Harlequin Mojave) next to Mojave sib:

[IMG]http://s1.directupload.net/images/110718/rj4mts94.jpg[/IMG]

Here is a normal Harlequin from the same clutch. (next to a normal from a different clutch)

[IMG]http://s7.directupload.net/images/110718/r49uqy8x.jpg[/IMG]

You can see the intense color. Its orange and just amazing.

Pic of Mom:

http://s3.directupload.net/file/d/2113/kzvb8gx5_jpg.htm


Mon is direct from Africa. So maybe it is a different line. The Harmony (Harlequin Mojave) is the same like amirs harlequin Mojave. But i never saw his Harlequins.

So here are my thoughts:

- Harlequin, or at least my line, is dominant or co-dominant. I got 4 Eggs in the inkubator right now. Hopeing to see a super?
- My Harlequins are not "wide-stripe".
- What i can tell is that the Harlequin gene works like a colorpusher. The Crosses are just amazing in color and blushings. A Harmony next to a Mojave is easy to tell even if you have never seen one before.
- There are many, many snakes out there that look like harlequins or similiar. But not many are really genetic. So that makes it so hard to get into the project.
- Markers: Dots or Keyholes. Belly - White with black line on both sides (like described before)m blushed out head (rusty look), and a "look" i have no words for in english :D

Thanks, Sito

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Do you have belly pics?