New smoking restrictions in Washington. Oh boy!

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Originally Posted by tonkatoyman

OOPs hit the wrong button. Two things
1. If the issue is the health of the people then eliminate smoking all together just as we eliminate the bad toasters...
2. Yes you have the right to live where ever you wish, how ever that does not include the right to alter the behavior of those around you because you live there. An extreme example...building a house next to a pig farm and then expecting the farmer to eliminate the smell.

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What about a farmer moving next to you.

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Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

The only problem with that is "eliminating" things doesnt eliminate them. It just makes them illegal. Which creates black markets.

The best thing that 'could' be logical would make it illegal to smoke in public if people think its that much of a hazard to their health. And smokers would have to smoke in their homes, or other places like how there are cigar clubs.

There is no way your going to get every person in the country to stop smoking, even if it was illegal.

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I know I seem like I'm taking both sides with this comment...but if we do that (See the bold) then how long before we see that the second hand smoke is hazardous to the children living in the home...I can tell you that living with two parents who smoked when I started it was NO PROBLEM FOR ME. No coughing, or gagging. I just started. This is why I tell you the string has no end. Either we the people eliminate it or decide to live with it with some sort of sanity to the rules. But we decide not the Government.

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Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

What about a farmer moving next to you.

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Then the same should apply to him.:D As long as it is not in an environment where you would normally expect to risk finding one next door.:D
After all what is good for the Goose is good for the Gander.
A smoker moving into a previously smoke free environment and polluting it should be regulated by the apartment complex....not the government and the tenant inconvenienced should be well with-in their rights to request he relocate or the apartments accommodate the nonsmoker by moving them.

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Originally Posted by tonkatoyman

I know I seem like I'm taking both sides with this comment...but if we do that (See the bold) then how long before we see that the second hand smoke is hazardous to the children living in the home...I can tell you that living with two parents who smoked when I started it was NO PROBLEM FOR ME. No coughing, or gagging. I just started. This is why I tell you the string has no end. Either we the people eliminate it or decide to live with it with some sort of sanity to the rules. But we decide not the Government.

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Im sure its already pretty obvious if their kids are locked up at home when theyre smoking thats pretty serious second hand smoke. Or maybe the parents will smoke in a certain room where the kids dont go. Both my parents smoked when I was young and I will never smoke (cigarettes, or become addicted to anything like that). I cant say if it effected me or not, but as far as I can tell it hasnt.

Its kind of like telling them how to raise their kids. But what makes that any different than having a dirty house thats not sanitary for your kids, or feeding them crap food. The government, OR the people (sort of the same thing in this situation) cant really do anything about it.

"The people" can only take action through the government. No one is going to listen to what you have to say, if they are set in their ways, unless its a law, and even then they still might not.

The government decides because the people decide.

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Originally Posted by tonkatoyman

Then the same should apply to him.:D As long as it is not in an environment where you would normally expect to risk finding one next door.:D
After all what is good for the Goose is good for the Gander.
A smoker moving into a previously smoke free environment and polluting it should be regulated by the apartment complex....not the government and the tenant inconvenienced should be well with-in their rights to request he relocate or the apartments accommodate the nonsmoker by moving them.

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I agree, and maybe I should clarify about banning smoking in public.

Even then... you should be able to smoke outside on your property and if you OWN a house, you probably have neighbors that could smell the smoke if you live close enough.

But is it really that big of a deal? Thats like complaining about smelling someones car exhaust which is just as bad, and happens all the time. Or maybe a lawnmower running. What can you do? Your not going to ban cars.

Its probably worse than second hand smoke. I feel like people dont think about this stuff. :oops:

But smoking and apartments should be up to the occupants. But you cant really make a set of laws for home owners because they probably dont apply to everyone.

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Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

Im sure its already pretty obvious if their kids are locked up at home when theyre smoking thats pretty serious second hand smoke. Or maybe the parents will smoke in a certain room where the kids dont go. Both my parents smoked when I was young and I will never smoke (cigarettes, or become addicted to anything like that). I cant say if it effected me or not, but as far as I can tell it hasnt.

Its kind of like telling them how to raise their kids. But what makes that any different than having a dirty house thats not sanitary for your kids, or feeding them crap food. The government, OR the people (sort of the same thing in this situation) cant really do anything about it.

"The people" can only take action through the government. No one is going to listen to what you have to say, if they are set in their ways, unless its a law, and even then they still might not.

The government decides because the people decide.

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This issue is never ending. However, When we decide the government is the answer to all our problems, then we begin to take a back seat. The people are the government. We choose who we put in power and we choose to eliminate them. Just look at the last two major elections. We have the right to legislate from the ballot box, so long as it is with-in the constitution. Lets look at your statement "It's kind of like telling them how to raise their kids. Let me give you some things the government has decided for you and therefor you no longer have the right to choose.
1. wearing a helmet while on a motorcycle...there is talk of making it mandatory for bike riders as well.
2. Putting children up to 4'-9 in child seats...I know 70 year old men who are currently in violation of the law because they are not 4'-9.
3. Wearing seat belts while riding in a car...is it smart sure but what right does the Gov have to dictate that...
4. Your children must attend school until the age of... again is it smart sure but is it their right to force it...
5. We must now all buy health insurance under Obama care...does this make you any healthier no but it forces you to do what is "Good for you"
6. In Ms. it is illegal to burn a 2x4 from a lumber yard but o.k. to burn a pine log. One is hazardous the other is not.
7. Incandescent light bulbs are being forced off the market by the Gov in favor of bulbs filled with mercury...all in the name of Global warming. If you drop one you have to call a hazmat team to clean it up.
8. The smoking issue is but a drop of water in the bucket of who is going to dictate how you live...

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Originally Posted by tonkatoyman

This issue is never ending. However, When we decide the government is the answer to all our problems, then we begin to take a back seat. The people are the government. We choose who we put in power and we choose to eliminate them. Just look at the last two major elections. We have the right to legislate from the ballot box, so long as it is with-in the constitution. Lets look at your statement "It's kind of like telling them how to raise their kids. Let me give you some things the government has decided for you and therefor you no longer have the right to choose.
1. wearing a helmet while on a motorcycle...there is talk of making it mandatory for bike riders as well.
2. Putting children up to 4'-9 in child seats...I know 70 year old men who are currently in violation of the law because they are not 4'-9.
3. Wearing seat belts while riding in a car...is it smart sure but what right does the Gov have to dictate that...
4. Your children must attend school until the age of... again is it smart sure but is it their right to force it...
5. We must now all buy health insurance under Obama care...does this make you any healthier no but it forces you to do what is "Good for you"
6. In Ms. it is illegal to burn a 2x4 from a lumber yard but o.k. to burn a pine log. One is hazardous the other is not.
7. Incandescent light bulbs are being forced off the market by the Gov in favor of bulbs filled with mercury...all in the name of Global warming. If you drop one you have to call a hazmat team to clean it up.
8. The smoking issue is but a drop of water in the bucket of who is going to dictate how you live...

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Those laws dont apply everywhere. Im sure theres different variations in different states, and some of them are supposed to be a good thing, such as the schooling one.

The government only decides this stuff because some people actually think thats a good idea.

If you and a bunch of other people decide that you dont want people smoking, the government is supposed to do something about it, because the government is supposed to represent the people. You could add that to the list of things the government has chosen for you. Its not like they just pulled the ideas out of their you know what.

I dont think this is going anywhere. So yeah. stuff doesnt work. government makes rules for you. people want to make rules for other people. no ones happy. the end.

This is my last comment on this subject. In America I see a free people who have forgotten how to be free. Freedom isn't easy. It requires personal responsibility to make good choices, and to live with the consequences of those choices. It requires that we recognize the rights of others to make choices. We must also be willing to expect them to live with the choices they made. It is much easier in the short run to let the government solve all the ills of the world. Then all I have to do is live with in the rules and follow the directions. Then I have no responsibility. I see an America who is fast looking to the government to take care of us. I see an America that too quickly and easily relies on Uncle Sam to fix things because after all what can I do. That saddens me because the independent "I can do it myself" attitude is what made this country what it is today. This smoking issue is just a minuscule part of what i have just said. I hope I have given all food for thought.
Thanks for listening...

So if you own a car you have the right to drive it where you like? On the sidewalk left or right side of the road? Regulating dangerous behaviour is part of the governments job. A pig farm isn't dangerous to your health, smoking is totally different. Can you open a pig farm in a city? Nope. There are regulations governing where you can do things a small quite neighbourhood could you build a huge big office tower? Not where I live, residential zoning means residential. 12 paced from a door or window seems quite reasonable banning smoking does not. That is against peoples rights.

I only see a regulation on some peoples activity just like your pig farm have regulations of where and how why not smoking? It is only 12 steps, the discussion takes more effort why are you opposed to smokers having to walk away from someones else's house?

I also grew up with smokers and am quite allergic. In the local school there is a no peanut rule one child is violently allergic to them. So you would argue that should not be regulated too?

What I am saying is social ques have failed, signs have failed, the landlords have no power as you can evict someone because they smoke. Being polite, gets smoke blown in your face. what is left? Law. Everything has already been tried and nothing works, what options are left, remove the right to smoke totally or try regulations to control how and where you can. Same as a car, you can't drive your car as fast as you want or where you might want like on the side walk. What is so wrong with saying you can smoke here, you can smoke over there. To my mind if that fails then you speak about a total ban. Where I am 20 feet from all windows and doors, the fine is 1000$. Not just at a housing complex.

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Originally Posted by tonkatoyman

This is my last comment on this subject. In America I see a free people who have forgotten how to be free. Freedom isn't easy. It requires personal responsibility to make good choices, and to live with the consequences of those choices. It requires that we recognize the rights of others to make choices. We must also be willing to expect them to live with the choices they made. It is much easier in the short run to let the government solve all the ills of the world. Then all I have to do is live with in the rules and follow the directions. Then I have no responsibility. I see an America who is fast looking to the government to take care of us. I see an America that too quickly and easily relies on Uncle Sam to fix things because after all what can I do. That saddens me because the independent "I can do it myself" attitude is what made this country what it is today. This smoking issue is just a minuscule part of what i have just said. I hope I have given all food for thought.
Thanks for listening...

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That actually makes a lot of sense. If you want no responsibility you dont want freedom, because its a lot of work just to voice your own opinion let alone fight other peoples opinions if your voting, and spreading the word.

The government taking care of you and making RULES isnt being free. But at the same time if the government doesnt make rules, everyone is free but then you have the conflicts of everyones freedoms such as the smoking one.

But I think the conflicts that could potentially harm others are worth looking at, but wearing a seat belt and a helmet doesnt have any effect on other people, those laws are ridiculous. Its like having caution this coffee is hot labels. Theyre for the people who are to dumb to know that every action has a reaction.

Do you really need someone to tell you that your coffee is hot and can burn you? Same thing for do you really need someone to say that if you dont wear a helmet you could get hurt?

What ever happened to common sense.
wake up, wake up, wake up! :salute:

Wow, this thread really took off..haha.

Anyways, I stand by my original post..smoking is a habit not an addiction...now, is nicotine an addicting substance, sure. But if it's the nicotine that you crave why not satisfy that craving in such a way as to not put toxic smoke into the air? I mean, you've got chewing and that snuff crap(i think you put it up your nose or something?), which some smokers might argue is gross..and smoking isnt? Then you've got all the gums, patches, losenges, and tons of other crap that were invented specifically for ALL YOU SMOKERS to quit...these products do solve that nicotine addiction..or else they wouldn't exist and the FDA wouldnt allow them..therefore I'll go back to my original statement.. smoking is a habit and for some people its one that just cant seem to be broken..

Also I found this new thing that they've come up with...

http://thesmokelesscigarettes.us/

Anyone know anything about these?

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Originally Posted by Powerspythons

Wow, this thread really took off..haha.

Anyways, I stand by my original post..smoking is a habit not an addiction...now, is nicotine an addicting substance, sure. But if it's the nicotine that you crave why not satisfy that craving in such a way as to not put toxic smoke into the air? I mean, you've got chewing and that snuff crap(i think you put it up your nose or something?), which some smokers might argue is gross..and smoking isnt? Then you've got all the gums, patches, losenges, and tons of other crap that were invented specifically for ALL YOU SMOKERS to quit...these products do solve that nicotine addiction..or else they wouldn't exist and the FDA wouldnt allow them..therefore I'll go back to my original statement.. smoking is a habit and for some people its one that just cant seem to be broken..

Also I found this new thing that they've come up with...

http://thesmokelesscigarettes.us/

Anyone know anything about these?

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what the heck. snuff. never even heard of that but yeah lets snort tobacco sounds like a good idea to me.

i know snus is basically dip that you dont have to spit out. and they also have the electronic cigarettes and all that crap like you mentioned.

I honestly think most people just dont want to quit.

It's disgusting though. I can't stand when people smoke around me/smell like cigarette smoke. Makes me gag. If you want to subtract decades from your life don't drag me into it.

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Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

what the heck. snuff. never even heard of that but yeah lets snort tobacco sounds like a good idea to me.

i know snus is basically dip that you dont have to spit out.

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haha, yeah idk what I was talkin about...snus is what I meant.

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Originally Posted by Powerspythons

haha, yeah idk what I was talkin about...snus is what I meant.

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theres snuff too. and snus.

snuff i guess is like fine tobacco that you snort. weird but it was on wikipedia...

I had to check just incase lol.

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Originally Posted by Powerspythons

Also I found this new thing that they've come up with...

http://thesmokelesscigarettes.us/

Anyone know anything about these?

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Yes, I have one of these. It worked really nice for about a week, and then started burning my throat. Not sure what that's about. My problem was that these i could smoke anywhere, cigs I can't/don't. So, when you can puff for hours at a time you don't feel the effects of the nicotine and I started getting cravings again.

That other "quit smoking" things don't work either. They are expensive. More than what I pay. I've heard the best way is cold turkey (my sister). I just can't get past the initial yearning. I keep thinking the best time would be in the morning when I wake up. That's close to 8 hrs of non smoking. It should be easy right? But, every morning I get into my routine and go into my smoke room to light up.

I need a support group or something. Like AA, only for smokers. It would be easier if I had a buddy system. I have to be moving all the time, i'm even a roller in my sleep. I light up when I'm bored, or just need to get away from whatever I'm doing. I've tried everything.

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Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

That actually makes a lot of sense. If you want no responsibility you dont want freedom, because its a lot of work just to voice your own opinion let alone fight other peoples opinions if your voting, and spreading the word.

The government taking care of you and making RULES isnt being free. But at the same time if the government doesnt make rules, everyone is free but then you have the conflicts of everyones freedoms such as the smoking one.

But I think the conflicts that could potentially harm others are worth looking at, but wearing a seat belt and a helmet doesnt have any effect on other people, those laws are ridiculous. Its like having caution this coffee is hot labels. Theyre for the people who are to dumb to know that every action has a reaction.

Do you really need someone to tell you that your coffee is hot and can burn you? Same thing for do you really need someone to say that if you dont wear a helmet you could get hurt?

What ever happened to common sense.
wake up, wake up, wake up! :salute:

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Well said...Very well said. I was going to modify my "Last Post" but instead I will add what i was going to say there here.
Common sense dictates that we enact some laws to prevent people from doing wrong things...this doesn't limit freedom it protects people...the debate is where to draw the line. As long as people accept the responsibility that goes with the right laws are not needed to restrict freedom. So here is what it boils down to in my book regarding the smoking and my last post.
As long as smoking is LEGAL then smokers should be allowed to smoke However they also have the responsibility to recognize it is a hazard to others, and can be an offensive habit, therefor they should not engage in the activity where others are unintentionally involved...
Nonsmokers have the right to breath air free from tobacco, they also have the responsibility not to enter a situation where they find smoking and expect others to quit. It takes both to work.
By the way for those who do act responsibly I Applaud you, smoker and nonsmoker alike. It is when one side says I don't care what is the right thing to do I want what I want that laws have to be written and good people loose their freedom.

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

Yes, I have one of these. It worked really nice for about a week, and then started burning my throat. Not sure what that's about. My problem was that these i could smoke anywhere, cigs I can't/don't. So, when you can puff for hours at a time you don't feel the effects of the nicotine and I started getting cravings again.

That other "quit smoking" things don't work either. They are expensive. More than what I pay. I've heard the best way is cold turkey (my sister). I just can't get past the initial yearning. I keep thinking the best time would be in the morning when I wake up. That's close to 8 hrs of non smoking. It should be easy right? But, every morning I get into my routine and go into my smoke room to light up.

I need a support group or something. Like AA, only for smokers. It would be easier if I had a buddy system. I have to be moving all the time, i'm even a roller in my sleep. I light up when I'm bored, or just need to get away from whatever I'm doing. I've tried everything.

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Kudos for having tried. Even by thinking about it and wanting to quit, you are doing more then many. It IS hard.
Don't give up just because it hasn't worked yet. Perhaps one day you'll find the strength or whatever you need in order to make it work.

Cigarette smoke doesn't crawl through your door and sneak up into your bed at night.
If I smoke outside of my door, you won't smell it from your apartment. It dissipates into the air. :confused:
Last time I checked, cluttering up the air was legal. We still drive cars...
:weirdface
Are we going to make it illegal next for people with bad habits to leave something on their counter to mold? Mold spores can cause irritation to the lungs and it's pretty gross. It can make you sick.
But that's legal and there's no restriction on that.
What about somebody who stinks all the time? Are we going to tell them to stand 20 feet from a door? I don't want to smell a bad smell; I'm sure it has negative effects, too.
Nicotine is a drug. It's very addicting. You have to work really hard if you want to quit--and I do. Max and I have decided to try again to quit. but we need help, and it's going to be a long road even with help.
The problem, I agree with another member who said it, is that it's the government sticking their nose where it shouldn't be.
I want to quit, but nobody should be allowed to force or pressure me into it.

(and i'm struggling really bad right now without smoking as much as i usually do but it's an addiction i don't need)

Zina is so right! There is something noxious about cig smoke - it only takes a little bit and everything stinks of it. I can smell it from a block or more away if the wind is blowing my way.

What is it about tobacco smoke that just stinks so badly? Campfire smoke doesn't offend me.

If someone were to smoke for even a minute in my apartment without me there, and I came home the next day, I guarantee you I would be able to smell it on my sofa, my pillows, my towels. It is that vile.

I am NOT for govt regulating everything. However, there are laws to pick up your dog's poo. There are laws against littering. There are restrictions against wearing perfume in certain places (Dr. Offices, certain work places). I believe the rights of non smokers and freedoms need to be defended every bit as the freedom of smokers.

Cig smoke does NOT only affect the smoker. It affects everyone around them who DOES NOT want to smell and breathe it.

THAT, I feel, is why I don't mind regulations.

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Originally Posted by shelliebear

Cigarette smoke doesn't crawl through your door and sneak up into your bed at night.
If I smoke outside of my door, you won't smell it from your apartment. It dissipates into the air. :confused:
Last time I checked, cluttering up the air was legal. We still drive cars...
:weirdface
Are we going to make it illegal next for people with bad habits to leave something on their counter to mold? Mold spores can cause irritation to the lungs and it's pretty gross. It can make you sick.
But that's legal and there's no restriction on that.
What about somebody who stinks all the time? Are we going to tell them to stand 20 feet from a door? I don't want to smell a bad smell; I'm sure it has negative effects, too.
Nicotine is a drug. It's very addicting. You have to work really hard if you want to quit--and I do. Max and I have decided to try again to quit. but we need help, and it's going to be a long road even with help.
The problem, I agree with another member who said it, is that it's the government sticking their nose where it shouldn't be.
I want to quit, but nobody should be allowed to force or pressure me into it.

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shellie, do you ever read what you write before you post? Do you EVER do anything other than parrot what you've heard or read.

The above is just plain stupid. I guarantee that if you smoked in my front yard, I'd know it. No one wants to force you to quit. However, no matter what you do decide, NO ONE FORCED YOU TO DO ANYTHING. You did it all by your lonesome.

Your habit is loathsome to many of those who do not share it. Be courteous. Your actions reflect on your fellow smokers just as those of stupid reptile keepers reflect on the rest of us.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

shellie, do you ever read what you write before you post? Do you EVER do anything other than parrot what you've heard or read.

The above is just plain stupid. I guarantee that if you smoked in my front yard, I'd know it. No one wants to force you to quit. However, no matter what you do decide, NO ONE FORCED YOU TO DO ANYTHING. You did it all by your lonesome.

Your habit is loathsome to many of those who do not share it. Be courteous. Your actions reflect on your fellow smokers just as those of stupid reptile keepers reflect on the rest of us.

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Great point about the reptile relation. I think that goes with any hobby, or just certain things people h ave in common. Many people have preconceived notions that might not be true.

Also, my dad always smokes before he goes to bed at night, in the garage. Our basement is connected to the garage, and I can smell it near the door when it is still closed.

That being said, our garage doesnt always smell like cigarette smoke. Its not like all your belongings are going to be stained like tobacco scent forever, or your clothes if someone smokes within 10 feet of you.

I like the bold part as well. Which is why I will never smoke/ become addicted to cigarettes because its something you chose to do.

Shelliebear, if you think smoke just magically dissipates into nothing, you're totally wrong. I used to sit in a third floor office facing the window and when people would go outside on the side of the building to smoke, I would know. Even three floors up, you can see the cloud rising up past the window. Now think if that were an apartment and a non-smoker lives on the second or third floor. If that person were to open a window on that side of the building, or even around the corner of the building depending on which way the wind is blowing, the smoke would absolutely get in their apartment and a non-smoker would be able to smell it for days.

But I think what has not been addressed yet is that they're not talking about regulating ALL smoking outside of ALL buildings in the state. They're saying that in GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZED HOUSING, which is housing that the government pays for or provides, you can not smoke within 25 feet of the entrance. OK, so what. The government who owns the housing that you are using government dollars to live in doesn't want you to smoke in front of the door. They want you to be courteous enough to your neighbor to move a few steps away. You don't like the rule, you can move somewhere public where the government isn't paying for you to live and you can stand right in front of the door and blow smoke in peoples faces as they walk out the door for work. That is your right...

shelliebear,

I lived for a while on the bottom floor of a building and I could always smell cigs through the closed window and forget opening it ever.

If you want to smoke in your house go a head no one is stopping you if you want to leave stuff to mould out again go a head if you run a restaurant where your mould effects me guess what the health department will shut it down. Cars have regulations regarding emissions. Are you so lazy that walking 25 feet is SUCH a big problem? It is crazy.

I lived where there were basically no regulations, freedom according to some. They should try it central Africa fun times.

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

$240 saved from smoking, plus the $250 they were already paying for rent. Do apartments really cost more than $490 a month out there? That's enough for a house in most parts of Michigan.

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sorry for bringing this back up but really? only 490 a month? where i live its more live 700-1,700 a month for rent :S depending on if you want a basement apartment/building apartment/or an actual house which is usually anywhere from 1,000 to 1,700.

BTW I live in Canada, ON.

You know, the OP pointed out the massive cost of a ciagrette habit...I can see why the state wouldn't want to pay for someone's house just so they can spend the money on a nicotine addiction.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

shellie, do you ever read what you write before you post? Do you EVER do anything other than parrot what you've heard or read.

The above is just plain stupid. I guarantee that if you smoked in my front yard, I'd know it. No one wants to force you to quit. However, no matter what you do decide, NO ONE FORCED YOU TO DO ANYTHING. You did it all by your lonesome.

Your habit is loathsome to many of those who do not share it. Be courteous. Your actions reflect on your fellow smokers just as those of stupid reptile keepers reflect on the rest of us.

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Can I tell you something?
You're a real jerk.
Look at the infractions you've gotten for being one.
Mr. High and Mighty internet god, who knows everything and opens his mouth to insult people at any time he fancies.
Yeah, LOL, I read what other people said and what I write. Um...so, what, if somebody else already said something, are we no longer allowed to say it ourselves so people know our stand?
I wasn't aware, wilomn. I'm praying for your forgiveness, really. Those who don't obey your trends get punished by your harsh words. Really. It hurts soooo bad.
I didn't say nobody would know it. I said that eventually smoke dissipates into the air, and it doesn't crawl into your bed and strangle you at night.
Get a life. You're not the internet police, and even if there were internet police that existed, no one would allow you to be one. You're a jerk, plain and simple.
And yeah, if I smoked in your yard, you'd know it, because I'm just so stupid I'd knock on your door and stick it up your nose, because cigarettes give cancer with just one puff. Really! :rofl:
And notice it wasn't MY actions that got smoking in trouble. It was people who toss their cigarette butts all over and blow smoke in their kid's faces, which I don't. I have a car ashtray I keep in my purse, and guess where the butts go when I'm done smoking 25 feet away from all entrances? Take a guess.
Stop parroting what your mommy and daddy told you to write on here. It's getting pathetic.

Inknsteel, in WA state you have to be 25 feet away from ALL public entrances. It's been the law for like 2 years ish I think now. It's not just apartments funded by the state.

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Originally Posted by zina10

I just want to say, KUDOS to any and all that at least try to quit or think about it. I do realize how hard it must be.

I'm very glad I've never gotten into it because I see people struggle with it, I've seen them get killed by it. I've seen them keep smoking while it was actively killing them.
Terrible thing.

So to anyone that wants to quit, tries to quit, no matter how many times they've tried and failed and try again. KUDOS ! Don't give up.

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Good post, zina. A doctor friend of mine once said, "If you want to quit, you have to keep trying to quit, even if it kills you." It took me a while to understand his wisdom.

I 'tried' to quit at least five times during my 30 years of smoking, and I can say without hesitation that quitting smoking was the hardest thing I've ever done.

But here's the thing. Now that I've won the war, I can't imagine why I ever smoked those vile things.

And that's the hardest part about quitting - smokers are convinced that they actually 'enjoy' smoking. The truth is that the chemical receptors in the brain fool the pleasure centers into believing that they are being rewarded for smoking. It's all a lie - a lie that one simply can't see until one actually rids oneself of the addiction. There is no one who excels in denial and rationalization like a smoker.

To me, the key to quitting (and deep down, all you smokers know that you - the REAL you - wants to quit. You don't want to see $2000 a year simply vaporize into a pile of ashes. You don't want to cough up nasty phlegm every day.

And most of all...you don't want to wonder how long it will be before the doctor says, "I've got some bad news for you."

It's your right to smoke. It's also your right to kick cigarettes to the curb, where they belong.

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Originally Posted by knox

Zina is so right! There is something noxious about cig smoke - it only takes a little bit and everything stinks of it. I can smell it from a block or more away if the wind is blowing my way.

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The problem is that smokers don't realize how nasty they (and everything around them) stink. To a smoker, it's normal.

I'm a reformed smoker. One of my big eye-openers was when I was trading in a car. In the process of cleaning it up inside I grabbed some windex and started cleaning the inside of the windshield. It was bizarre when I realized I was having to clean off a film of nasty brown crap...it was on the windshield, the headliner, the seats, dash, everything...that was one of the moments where I thought "I've got to quit"...also took a hit on trade-in value because of the cig smell...:mad:

I quit by using the patch for the first couple of days and then stuck with it. The patch helped with the actual addiction as well as getting out of the habit of lighting up after dinner, when I hopped in the car, while having morning coffee, while aggravated at work. There were so many things that triggered the cravings...:rolleye2: The patch and a whole lot of will-power can help get you through them.

smoking is an addiction...and a strong one. You have to want to quit. Good luck to those who are willing to give it an honest try...:gj:

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Originally Posted by simple man

if people quit smoking maybe they could afford their own dwelling. Food for thought.

Regards,

b

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^^^this x100!!!

To me it is not about the smell (it does and it stinks) its not about the butts (smokers are not the only ones whom litter) it is about one thing tobacco smoke is a carcenogen and a strong one. I spent some time with an oncologist last year lending moral support with a friend (non smoker with lung cancer) and the question of how did this happen to me came up. The anser was an anology.

It is like walking blind folded accross a big street, if you go across at 3 am there are is less chance of getting hit against walking across at rush hour. But you can get hit at 3 general health and genetics change things but once is all it takes.

Cancer is caused by radioactive particles ONE can do it. It embeds in tissues and causes cells around it to die, mutate and not reproduce or mutate and reproduce. Mutate and reproduce is called cancer. ONE single radioactive particle. Polonium 210 (radioactive) is in every cigarette there is a higher concentration of this in the second hand smoke. So yes you can get cancer from ONE exposure. The more exposure you have (remember crossing the road) the better your chances become.

1 in 5 die as a direct result of smoking. It is your right to play russian roulette (oh better odds there. 1 in 6) but is it not your right to involve me. I have seen cancer up close and personal, held the hand of a friend while she died. I doesn't seem too much to ask that smokers walk away from entrances and windows of people whom have not decided to smoke you do that is fine, I don't so please don't make me.

http://www.epa.gov/radiation/sources/tobacco.html

Oh yeah, why DO smokers feel it is okay to throw their butts out the window? Every traffic light around here is littered with them :rage:

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Originally Posted by knox

Oh yeah, why DO smokers feel it is okay to throw their butts out the window? Every traffic light around here is littered with them :rage:

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Providing a job for the guys in orange jump suits. Helping American citizens one butt at a time. :salute:

About 10 years ago a study was done in SoCal. It was estimated that there are enough butts thrown on the ground each year to FILL the Rose Bowl. That's just here in SoCal. Talk about disrespect.

I wish they would leave smokers alone. Beyond making them put warning labels on cigarettes the government needs to but out. I don't smoke but what the government has done to the tobacco industry is patently unamerican. If people wanna smoke and suffer the health effects thats there right. Whether the tobacco is flavored or not, and they should be allowed to advertise.


It's just ridiculous and another case of to much government overstepping there bounds.

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Originally Posted by Seru1

I wish they would leave smokers alone. Beyond making them put warning labels on cigarettes the government needs to but out. I don't smoke but what the government has done to the tobacco industry is patently unamerican. If people wanna smoke and suffer the health effects thats there right. Whether the tobacco is flavored or not, and they should be allowed to advertise.


It's just ridiculous and another case of to much government overstepping there bounds.

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Then who is going to keep the air I breathe free from smoke? Who will keep the restaurants smoke free? The Grocery Stores? When I was kid, I remember people smoking while they were in the Grocery Store - I would walk down the aisle and it was awful.

Why do they get the freedom to smoke, but non smokers don't get the freedom to NOT smell that garbage?

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Originally Posted by knox

Then who is going to keep the air I breathe free from smoke? Who will keep the restaurants smoke free? The Grocery Stores? When I was kid, I remember people smoking while they were in the Grocery Store - I would walk down the aisle and it was awful.

Why do they get the freedom to smoke, but non smokers don't get the freedom to NOT smell that garbage?

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The health risks of second hand smoke have been way overblown. If you don't like it walk away.


EDIT: If a Restaurant or Grocery store wants to ban smoking on the premises Fine I support that. To force them to, No I can't abide that.

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Originally Posted by Seru1

The health risks of second hand smoke have been way overblown. If you don't like it walk away.


EDIT: If a Restaurant or Grocery store wants to ban smoking on the premises Fine I support that. To force them to, No I can't abide that.

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EHHHhh, wrong answer.

Your right to enjoy your poison does not give you the right to poison anyone else. I seriously disagree with your statement about second hand smoke and dare you to post sources for it.

Why should I be the one who has to walk away? Why are the people NOT smoking the ones who have to be bothered and walk away? That makes no sense. The smokers are the ones changing the smell of the immediate vicinity. Why do the people who AREN'T changing it, but rather enjoying clean air, be the ones who have to walk away?

Sure, let me walk right up beside you while you are, say, watching the tigers at the zoo with your children. I light a small fire that gives off horrible smelling smoke, a smell that gets in your hair and on your clothes, and you are breathing in when you DON'T want to. At this point, I simply tell you that if you don't like it, walk away.

That is utterly ridiculous.

I don't care if second hand smoke has ZERO health risk. I shouldn't be forced to smell it, nor should I be forced to walk away.

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Originally Posted by shelliebear

People in WA state receiving housing assistance can no longer smoke within 25 feet of any building entrance in any of the state's subsidized housing programs.
:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by shelliebear

Inknsteel, in WA state you have to be 25 feet away from ALL public entrances. It's been the law for like 2 years ish I think now. It's not just apartments funded by the state.

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Sorry, I'm not researching the state laws in WA, just going by what was said in the initial post. And to me, it just looks like a topic that got blown out of proportion and turned into a debate over government overstepping and getting involved where they shouldn't. My interpretation is that they simply want the government subsidized housing to be smoke-free and if you want to take advantage of tax dollars by using the government subsidized housing programs, you should be able to adhere to their rules. If you want to smoke outside your front door, you are entitled to find public housing and do so. I didn't see anything in the initial post stating that they were limiting where you can smoke in relation to public or privately owned property. It appears (again from the content of the original post) that the new legislation only applies to government subsidized housing. Maybe I'm missing something...

Your interpretation of the new law is correct. We already have a standing law that you cannot smoke within 25 feet of the entrance of any public building or business as well.

Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk

In all honesty, as a smoker, I think it should be our responsibility to keep our habit away from others. I like to drive fast, and have some road rage at times, but when I do I have to pay attention to my surroundings. If I want to go out and fire a shotgun a few times, I'm sure not going to do it around a crowd of people.

We all have bad habits, and some of them are dangerous around people. Does that mean they should be banned, no. That means that we need to be responsible for what we choose to do.

As far as rules & regulations go, it should be up to the business owners to decide whether or not smoking is allowed. We have a bar here that was split in two. One side for smokers and another for non smokers. People loved it. The building I work at has rules about smoking around it. If I want to smoke I have to go to my car, or by the street. I am fine with it, because that is their choice. I don't have to work here, but I love my job. I wish people in general were more considerate for others. The would would be a better place. Both for people who smoke, and people don't. Don't hate me for the sole fact that I am a smoker.

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Originally Posted by MissDizzyBee

Your interpretation of the new law is correct. We already have a standing law that you cannot smoke within 25 feet of the entrance of any public building or business as well.

Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk

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Ok, in that case, this makes the whole argument just THAT much more ridiculous. So, there are laws in place already that the general public already must move 25 feet away from the entrance to a public building. And now, all they are doing is extending that same ordinance to government subsidized housing?

I'm sorry if I offend, but it now looks more to me like a case of someone who wants to take FULL advantage of government assistance just looking for a place to whine and garner sympathy because the big bad government is making ANOTHER rule that is an inconvenience to them. If everyone else has to do it everywhere else, what's the problem here?

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Originally Posted by wilomn

EHHHhh, wrong answer.

Your right to enjoy your poison does not give you the right to poison anyone else. I seriously disagree with your statement about second hand smoke and dare you to post sources for it.

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Zuuuh Okay me? Nearly all my friends. All our parents smoked for years and years and none of us have any health problems. I DO remember reading an article about it at some point but I never saved it. And there's alot of money in anti smoking lobbying right now so of course the studies are biased.


You don't have the right to tell people they can't smoke. It's unamerican. If you own a buisness or a home you can forbid someone to smoke therein. But if you just "Don't like it" it's selfish, nay foolish to try and forbid someone. Be a Freedom loving red blooded american. If you don't wanna smell smoke sit at a different table. Walk away your not helpless.

God everyone wants government to do everything for them. Why not solve your own problems instead of crying to government to take away our rights.


Everyone dies of something. Tobacco, Driving, Cancer, Hey snakes can kill people to. Hmmm what else. Over drinking, Guns, You can even die from drinking to much water. So lets outlaw all those things. And Hamburgers, and Bungie Jumping. Motorcycles.

Hell lets just outlaw fun.

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Originally Posted by Seru1

Zuuuh Okay me? Nearly all my friends. All our parents smoked for years and years and none of us have any health problems. I DO remember reading an article about it at some point but I never saved it. And there's alot of money in anti smoking lobbying right now so of course the studies are biased.


You don't have the right to tell people they can't smoke. It's unamerican. If you own a buisness or a home you can forbid someone to smoke therein. But if you just "Don't like it" it's selfish, nay foolish to try and forbid someone. Be a Freedom loving red blooded american. If you don't wanna smell smoke sit at a different table. Walk away your not helpless.

God everyone wants government to do everything for them. Why not solve your own problems instead of crying to government to take away our rights.


Everyone dies of something. Tobacco, Driving, Cancer, Hey snakes can kill people to. Hmmm what else. Over drinking, Guns, You can even die from drinking to much water. So lets outlaw all those things. And Hamburgers, and Bungie Jumping. Motorcycles.

Hell lets just outlaw fun.

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So you think you should be able to drive a motorcycle on sidewalks thru redlights and as fast as you want where ever you want?

They are not banning smoking it is just a simple regulation like stop at red lights and you can't drive on sidewalks so again it seems to me you are objecting to walking 13 paces. It reminds me of my little cousin screaming because he just wanted to eat his breakfast on the floor of the kitchen rather than go way over there (19 feet) to the table.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

So you think you should be able to drive a motorcycle on sidewalks thru redlights and as fast as you want where ever you want?

They are not banning smoking it is just a simple regulation like stop at red lights and you can't drive on sidewalks so again it seems to me you are objecting to walking 13 paces. It reminds me of my little cousin screaming because he just wanted to eat his breakfast on the floor of the kitchen rather than go way over there (19 feet) to the table.

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Your comparing driving a motorcycle on the sidewalk to smoking? Forgive me if the comparison seems overblown and moronic at best. Note: Not YOU the the comparison.

No one is going to say you should ride your motorcycle on the sidewalk or disobey stop signals. It would surely kill or hurt someone. A little second hand smoke won't. It just won't. Despite all the biased government funded studies designed to find a specific result. Unless you sit in a small unventilated room with a smoker for a long period everyday I doubt you'll be harmed. I know I wasn't And I know a wealth of people who weren't.


Your example reminds me of the overprotective mother who won't let her daughter go to school dances because she might Kill herself because of the destructive modern music and influences..

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Originally Posted by Seru1

Zuuuh Okay me? Nearly all my friends. All our parents smoked for years and years and none of us have any health problems.

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How can you possibly use yourself as an example? You're 25 years old(I checked your profile)..how do you know that you wont develop it at a later age or how do you know you dont already have an unnoticeable case of it now? Are you a doctor? Do you get your entire body CAT scanned regularly for any kind of irregularity? I'm only 23 years old and I'm still afraid that I might get cancer because of the 6 or so years that I smoked...Just so you know it's not like you take a puff of your cig or incidentaly inhale some second hand smoke and instantly have/know you have cancer...It can go unnoticed for years and by then it's more than likely too late...

I've known a few people who died of cancer and do you know how it usually went? They thought they were in 100% condition, and were cocky as heck about it and then some doctor says...well lets just do this test just to be safe...next thing you know they're on chemotherapy fighting for their lives...

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Originally Posted by Seru1

A little second hand smoke won't. It just won't. Despite all the biased government funded studies designed to find a specific result. Unless you sit in a small unventilated room with a smoker for a long period everyday I doubt you'll be harmed. I know I wasn't And I know a wealth of people who weren't.


Your example reminds me of the overprotective mother who won't let her daughter go to school dances because she might Kill herself because of the destructive modern music and influences..

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Your statements prove that you really don't know much about what you're talking about.

If you do, prove it.

I'll give you a little hint though. Some cancers take years to grow to the point that any even thinks to look for them.