so has ralph spilled the beans yet?

I thought someone said it didn't have desert in it.
Enchi Clown

He tells you himself in clutch 84...

Look at mom shes a desert

Ever seen a desert clown now add super desert. And yes there still could be a super desert its not proven dom or co dom yet. Just because a super hasnt been proven yet...doesnt mean it cant make a super.

Pesonally i think a super desert would be an all orange/gold snake but since mom is a desert, it must be included in the genes.

Enchi clown would have purple in it, he already made a lesser/pos enchi clown, looks nothing like the flatline. Enchi is not in mom or dads genes.

Like Ralph says its all in his birthing records.

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Originally Posted by TheReptileEnthusiast

The whole "everyone will start making them" argument is ridiculous. You can't just start making animals that have a recessive trait combined with multiple other traits. It takes YEARS. One year just to make the morph het clowns, assuming you already have a BREEDING size male clown and BREEDER females of all the other morphs involved. Then you would still have to raise up the morph het clowns to breeding size. Why do you think we haven't seen the market flooded with panda pieds? Plenty of people are working on it, but it takes TIME. Brock blew everyone away with his lesser clowns a year ago, and the market hasn't exactly been flooded with lesser clowns yet, and it is just one codom with one recessive. We will probably see some in the 2011 season, but it is safe to say that "everyone" hasn't got that far yet.

That being said, I can't blame Ralph for not releasing the recipe before he has even sold the animal or any sibs that would be helpful in producing another flatline, especially right before breeding season. Why not give yourself an extra season lead on the competition.

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His competition is not you, or me, or 99% of the people on this forum.
His competition include the top breeders in this country who HAVE those breeding morphs available but have not found the combo yet.

Once a morph is created and released, one of the top breeders in the country may be able to produce it over the next two seasons or so. If the genetics are not released, those same breeders may not produce it for years and years simply by guesswork and chance, or until the details are released. It is still a significant amount of extra time to produce a market for that particular animal.

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Originally Posted by mmateo

He tells you himself in clutch 84...

Look at mom shes a desert

Ever seen a desert clown now add super desert. And yes there still could be a super desert its not proven dom or co dom yet. Just because a super hasnt been proven yet...doesnt mean it cant make a super.

Pesonally i think a super desert would be an all orange/gold snake but since mom is a desert, it must be included in the genes.

Enchi clown would have purple in it, he already made a lesser/pos enchi clown, looks nothing like the flatline. Enchi is not in mom or dads genes.

Like Ralph says its all in his birthing records.

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Clutch 84 says once he produces a clown form it will be off the chart sexy. Clutch 164 could have been an Enchi clown. Which I don't think anyone has made.

How many clutches are classified...

Ralph also admits not every clutch is posted in the records.

Clutch 84 could of produced all yellow snakes or could have produced them from mom in the past 3 yrs she was bred. Clown could of already been introduced. Ralph multi breeds males to females all the time and admits in several clutchs dad may not be dad. One thing Ralph does have is breeding adults already het for genes most of us can barely get our hands on now. Most breeders he has are 3-6 yrs ahead of us.

Wether he tells or not it will take at least 6 yrs to reproduce.

If you were going to put a price tag on it today what would you think? I think this blows out the infamous "Soul Sucker" and I know what that goes for so my guess would be $35,000 for this;)

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Originally Posted by mmateo

He tells you himself in clutch 84...

Look at mom shes a desert

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Umm.. I don't see desert there, personally, but she may have something going on.

He's had something hidden going on with one or both of the parents' lines for 6 years, and deserts are a little more recent than that.

I was assuming some recessive trait that finally popped up.

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Originally Posted by mumps

I'm with mykee on this one.

"Secret", "Classified" clutches and not relaying what makes up a snake genetically is just marketing.

I know if I produced the flatline, and was the first to do it, I'd have pics and ingredients all over the net. This hobby has advanced to the great state it is through the sharing of information, not hiding it.

Chris

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It is a great marketing strategy! This business was successful at making big bucks but now that ever Tom, Richard (it censored his nick name), and Harry are making great looking combo morphs the market took a giant dump, then throw in on top of it what the gov is doing to our hobby and that finished it off. There are still some great money making combos out there but they are soon cut down (price) due to everyone knowing what makes the next big thing and flooding the market within a few years.

We will use a Mystic for example when I first looked at getting one I was told by a friend who had them (before people even knew about them in mass) and inquired with that person now just a few short years later they are common and valued at about half as much.

If these guys like NERD, BHB, and Ralph are making killer morphs from their hard work and ability to make a specific morph then I would say they are STUPID if they just go directly to BP.net and post pictures of their new creation before it gets its first shed and what the ingredients are.

Just my humble opinion,
Mike

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Originally Posted by hoax

This business was successful at making big bucks because every Tom, :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r:, and Harry can reproduce great looking combo morphs

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Fixed :P

If it wasn't the case that these morphs were reproducible, the market would have never become what it is today.

So-called "basement breeders" are the cause of both the rise and fall of BP morph prices. The big bucks would have never happened, and will not continue to happen, without them.

Looking through ralphs site.. his desert pastels have that same yellow.. just too much pattern!

And clutch 84 says "I will say that when I finally produce the "Clown Version" of this one.......it's gonna be off the charts sexy!!!" So clown can't be in the flateline if you are saying it's clutch 84...

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

His competition is not you, or me, or 99% of the people on this forum.His competition include the top breeders in this country who HAVE those breeding morphs available but have not found the combo yet.

Once a morph is created and released, one of the top breeders in the country may be able to produce it over the next two seasons or so. If the genetics are not released, those same breeders may not produce it for years and years simply by guesswork and chance, or until the details are released. It is still a significant amount of extra time to produce a market for that particular animal.

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You just restated my exact point. "Everyone" will not be making them next year by any stretch of the imagination whether or not he releases the genetics. The argument I was refuting is that if he releases the genes "everyone will be making them next year". Everyone does not have an enchi het clown male and a breeder female clown ready to go(for example). I totally agree with your statement above and clearly stated that I don't blame Ralph for not releasing the genes for the same reasons you stated.

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Originally Posted by mmateo

He tells you himself in clutch 84...

Look at mom shes a desert

Ever seen a desert clown now add super desert. And yes there still could be a super desert its not proven dom or co dom yet. Just because a super hasnt been proven yet...doesnt mean it cant make a super.

Pesonally i think a super desert would be an all orange/gold snake but since mom is a desert, it must be included in the genes.

Enchi clown would have purple in it, he already made a lesser/pos enchi clown, looks nothing like the flatline. Enchi is not in mom or dads genes.

Like Ralph says its all in his birthing records.

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What makes you think an enchi clown would have purple in it? Neither enchi nor clown bring out purple. Enchi is known for turning up the yellow and reducing pattern(per NERD).

Also the "lesser/pos enchi clown" you referred to is a lesser clown. It looks just like the lesser clowns Brock produced in 2009(Brock even said it looked like his lesser clowns). It couldn't have both lesser and enchi because only one sire can fertilize each egg. The purple you see in the hatchling lesser clowns comes from the lesser. Genes in the BEL complex often have a purplish tinge as hatchlings.

For the record, my first thought when I saw the flatline was pastel desert clown. Enchi clown came to mind soon afterward. I still believe it is either a pastel desert clown, an enchi clown, a pastel enchi clown, a desert enchi clown, or a pastel desert enchi clown.

pastel x super enchi x fire x clownhttp://www.captivebredreptileforums....ython-seff.jpg

The picture is a pastel x super enchi x fire if you added clown in there for the markings you could have the snake

It could possibly have been from clutch 164 at least of all the cluthes listed that seems the only one likely to me. The enchi clown could look like that.

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Originally Posted by RemysBalls

pastel x super enchi x fire x clownhttp://www.captivebredreptileforums....ython-seff.jpg

The picture is a pastel x super enchi x fire if you added clown in there for the markings you could have the snake

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That was my first guess.:gj:

Whether or not he releases the genetics of the snake today, or 2-3 years from now, or if ever, it's still awesome to see this forum do "Detective work" if you will. Personally, I think it's awesome, and even if you think he shouldn't hide what it is, that's his choice, no one else's on this forum. That's a whole other argument though.

*Continue on*

I've got a rough idea on what's going on but it's something I won't discuss but I will say I think it's something to do with an old project of Ralph's just takes a bit of looking around to find out.

Neo? :taz:

its a bumble bee clown.

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Originally Posted by Mrgbb

its a bumble bee clown.

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What makes you say that?

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Originally Posted by RemysBalls

pastel x super enchi x fire x clownhttp://www.captivebredreptileforums....ython-seff.jpg

The picture is a pastel x super enchi x fire if you added clown in there for the markings you could have the snake

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What if you added spider and got a real reduced pattern like on some caliders?

Im happy my thread is still alive. And i take it the answer is still NO. He hasnt spilled the beans.

Has he at least updated pics?

Sent from my SCH-R910 using Tapatalk

If it's clutch 84. Mom is a pastel sib with a neat pattern (possibly desert) and grandma is a captive hatch or import baby with a neat pattern (possibly desert). My vote is pastel desert clown. I think the het clown was in 04 pastel fem #1 from either her mom (99 import fem or pastel male grandsire). I haven't checked out clutch 164 yet.

That's why Ralphs the king and the rest are just NERDs :rofl:

And then there is this..
http://blog.hudsonvalleyherps.com/Po...lown%20026.JPG

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Originally Posted by kellysballs

If it's clutch 84. Mom is a pastel sib with a neat pattern (possibly desert) and grandma is a captive hatch or import baby with a neat pattern (possibly desert). My vote is pastel desert clown. I think the het clown was in 04 pastel fem #1 from either her mom (99 import fem or pastel male grandsire). I haven't checked out clutch 164 yet.

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I don't think it's Clutch 84. Especially because in the description he says "When I finally produce a clown version of this, it will be off the charts..." or something like that.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

And then there is this..
http://blog.hudsonvalleyherps.com/Po...lown%20026.JPG

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Desert Clown? That's hot!! A little more yellow and you have Ralph's animal almost.

Anyone hear anything yet?

Has to have clown in it... might have some sort of reduced pattern mutation too. Simon Hamelin here in Canada makes some amazing reduced pattern clowns and the pattern reminds me a bit of his. The yellow is ridiculous, must be super pastel... and probably one or two more things... fire, yellowbelly, enchi... something like that. :bow:

Thats the kind of snake you produce and say... ok, we don't need to try to cross anything else in. Its prefect. Just make more.

what if it something like the magpie that nerd created this year kinda similar and nerd said no clown in it the magpie that is here is a link to a photo


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=1&theater

this is what it is it is desert phantom clown if you see his records he has made deserts het clown and has phantom het clowns that he produce i bet the phantom mixed with desert and clown make the snake more yellow that what i think or add pastel too of those for sure !!!:gj:

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Originally Posted by RemysBalls

pastel x super enchi x fire x clownhttp://www.captivebredreptileforums....ython-seff.jpg

The picture is a pastel x super enchi x fire if you added clown in there for the markings you could have the snake

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I totally agree! I've seen this combo before and instantly thought if ya just add some clown in there, its the flatline! :gj:

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Originally Posted by aaronsmo13

I totally agree! I've seen this combo before and instantly thought if ya just add some clown in there, its the flatline! :gj:

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On the right track, but it is highly unlikely it is super enchi. The odds of hitting a super recessive with two other codom genes thrown in are just ridiculous, not to mention that you would have to raise a female up to produce a super. The odds are almost nill if you are only using animals with all those genes that are just het clowns, and we haven't seen a visual enchi clown yet.

Firefly enchi clown is a little more plausible since you could hit it with a male fire enchi het clown to a female pastel clown or something to that effect.

My money is on something simpler like a firefly clown, a pastel enchi clown, or a pastel desert clown.

We will see a super enchi fire pastel clown eventually, but I think we will see visual examples of more than just the pastel clown first(enchi clown, fire clown, etc.).

Can someone pm me ralph web site pls would luv to see what u all r talking about pls and thank u

I don't think it's on his website(http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/) ;)
Here is a vid (end of it):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYR6hv3mT2o

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Originally Posted by Orlandoflor

this is what it is it is desert phantom clown if you see his records he has made deserts het clown and has phantom het clowns that he produce i bet the phantom mixed with desert and clown make the snake more yellow that what i think or add pastel too of those for sure !!!:gj:

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Yes!!
I read somewhere that when phantom is mixed with spider it makes them really yellow.

So Mixing Desert (super clean yellow already).... Phantom (Brightens the yellow) and Clown (also brings yellow out) could be it!

Good research man :gj:

Anyone got any views on this?

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Originally Posted by TheReptileEnthusiast

On the right track, but it is highly unlikely it is super enchi. The odds of hitting a super recessive with two other codom genes thrown in are just ridiculous, not to mention that you would have to raise a female up to produce a super. The odds are almost nill if you are only using animals with all those genes that are just het clowns, and we haven't seen a visual enchi clown yet.

Firefly enchi clown is a little more plausible since you could hit it with a male fire enchi het clown to a female pastel clown or something to that effect.

My money is on something simpler like a firefly clown, a pastel enchi clown, or a pastel desert clown.

We will see a super enchi fire pastel clown eventually, but I think we will see visual examples of more than just the pastel clown first(enchi clown, fire clown, etc.).

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Unfortunately, I realized this as I thought about it more. I imagine it isn't anything possibly that complex with a recessive. If it is, he prayed pretty hard to the snake gods! But it is definitely insane! :)

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Originally Posted by Mattinho

Yes!!
I read somewhere that when phantom is mixed with spider it makes them really yellow.

So Mixing Desert (super clean yellow already).... Phantom (Brightens the yellow) and Clown (also brings yellow out) could be it!

Good research man :gj:

Anyone got any views on this?

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Does anyone have any idea what a desert phantom actually looks like?? I tried looking on google but couldn't find anything.

No one has owned up to making one ...yet. Of all the 'Big' breeders I think Ralph would be the first with most Phantom combos.

Check out Phantom Spiders they are so yellow!

Also if you look through his records you can see he has a few Phantom projects going and thets not including his private ones.

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Originally Posted by Mattinho

No one has owned up to making one ...yet. Of all the 'Big' breeders I think Ralph would be the first with most Phantom combos.

Check out Phantom Spiders they are so yellow!

Also if you look through his records you can see he has a few Phantom projects going and thets not including his private ones.

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I'm surprised no one has. I think they've got tons of potential.

And after looking more into the phantom/spiders, i can see it. Throw a clown in there, and that there might very well be it! :gj:

The only question I would have about a desert phantom clown is how long ago did Ralph produce the phantom het clowns and desert het clowns. One would have to be an adult female in the pairing.

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Originally Posted by TheReptileEnthusiast

The only question I would have about a desert phantom clown is how long ago did Ralph produce the phantom het clowns and desert het clowns. One would have to be an adult female in the pairing.

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I know he made a male Phantom het Clown last season as I asked about them :P So i'm sure he has made more as he seems to put most things to his Phantoms.

As for a Desert het Clown female.... they have been around for a while (Deserts) so its not hard to imagine him having one hidden away in his racks from 3+ years ago.

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Originally Posted by Mattinho

I know he made a male Phantom het Clown last season as I asked about them :P So i'm sure he has made more as he seems to put most things to his Phantoms.

As for a Desert het Clown female.... they have been around for a while (Deserts) so its not hard to imagine him having one hidden away in his racks from 3+ years ago.

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Well with this line of thinking, it would resolve a few threads. That female deserts can lay viable eggs and what the Flatline is.

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Originally Posted by LotsaBalls

Well with this line of thinking, it would resolve a few threads. That female deserts can lay viable eggs and what the Flatline is.

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Is there evidence they can't?
Also I didn't state that he bred a female Desert.. Only that he and others have created both Desert het Clown and Phantom Het Clown :D

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Originally Posted by Mattinho

Is there evidence they can't?
Also I didn't state that he bred a female Desert.. Only that he and others have created both Desert het Clown and Phantom Het Clown :D

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No evidence that they can't, but the concern has come up in a couple threads I have read. No one that I know of has posted pictures or said they have had a female produce. I'm not saying they can't, just what I heard.

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Originally Posted by LotsaBalls

No evidence that they can't, but the concern has come up in a couple threads I have read. No one that I know of has posted pictures or said they have had a female produce. I'm not saying they can't, just what I heard.

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It'd be nice to know if he or anyone has a few large adult female deserts that have bred with good results!

hey every listen up! lol He has had the phantom for some time now and clown has been out for a long time he could have made a female phantom het clown and get a male desert het clown in this short time they were out and boom you got flatline

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Originally Posted by Orlandoflor

hey every listen up! lol He has had the phantom for some time now and clown has been out for a long time he could have made a female phantom het clown and get a male desert het clown in this short time they were out and boom you got flatline

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I am aware that he has had deserts and clowns and phantoms for a long time, what I asked is WHEN did he produce phantom het clowns and desert het clowns. The first desert het clowns I have heard of were in 2009 and none of those are breeder females yet. When did he produce the phantom het clowns? One of the two had to be a female:).

Of course Ralph could have had a desert or phantom het clown "hidden away" that he didn't tell anyone about, but you would think he would have produced a phantom clown or desert clown(with the male) if this was the case.

I'm starting to lean towards pastel enchi clown. There are plenty of big pastel clown females and we already know he made enchi het clowns. Male enchi het clown to female pastel clown. Pastel enchis glow when they are hatchlings and young clowns have alot of yellow as well.

the thing is that at his website he does not show 08 clutches or older he could have made a phantom het clown girl in one of those and then in the 09 season that was one of the sercet clutches or something like that but we dont know he could have gotten a desert het clown male but your right if its not this it could be a pastel enchi clown the pastel echi are really bright when they are young and then just add clown but i think its one of those two. there might be more morphs in there but very unlickly unless he has the best luck in the word and he hit the combo!

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Originally Posted by TheReptileEnthusiast

Of course Ralph could have had a desert or phantom het clown "hidden away" that he didn't tell anyone about, but you would think he would have produced a phantom clown or desert clown(with the male) if this was the case.

l.

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im aware of he could have some phantom clowns and desert clown but i bet he thought he would show flatline it would be better to show LOL but any way i should get a phantom male from ralph davis by the end of this month to work into my clown projects lol come to me in 2 years and i see what flatline is lol wish me luck lol!

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Originally Posted by Orlandoflor

im aware of he could have some phantom clowns and desert clown but i bet he thought he would show flatline it would be better to show LOL but any way i should get a phantom male from ralph davis by the end of this month to work into my clown projects lol come to me in 2 years and i see what flatline is lol wish me luck lol!

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Not what I meant. When he produced the phantom het clowns and desert het clowns he would have been able to throw a male at a female clown or a female pastel clown long before the female hets grew up.

Two years? You must have some adult female clowns if you plan on making a flatline that quick.