BAD GUY-Matt Oakley

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Originally Posted by bloodpython171

No excuse at all, you asked and I told the truth as I have the whole time. It was 94 degrees inside and hotter outside, if the snake had been DOA from the extreme temps and Trevor would have wanted his money back eventhough I don't guarantee live arrival if you decide you still want the animal shipped and my/your temps are over 90 degrees and like I said, the snake wasn't out in the box with a little bit of paper like in the pic.

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Then how was the snake? You keep saying its "not like in the pic".. but how was it?

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Originally Posted by DBD

Hm... Very Professional huh? No Insulation, no snake bag, not even a proper SHIPPING BOX! I mean seriously.. The shipping supplies is the cheapest part... In fact, YOU dont even have to pay for it! You include packing materials cost in the Shipping Price Itself! SYR has an online site where you can order shipping supplies as well. And what do you mean by "I didn't just put it in the box as the pic shows though. My temps here were 94 inside when I shipped."?? What did you do differently? And Unless you had any control over the temps, dont give us that CRAP! If you were worried about the snake overheating, do you know what the Professional thing to do would've been? Obviously you dont.. But Me, the 14 year old KID will tell you! You buy what are called Cold Packs, and tape them to the insulation lid of the box! That simple! Why dont you start putting a little effort into what you do? Or BETTER YET, STOP doing what you are TRYING to do!

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Like I already stated I didn't ship the snake like that. I don't know if he'll tell the truth or not, but he didn't just open the box and take a pic. He took the snake out of the bag and who knows if the pic was even taken the day he got the snake or yesterday as it had NO DATE??

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Originally Posted by DBD

Then how was the snake? You keep saying its "not like in the pic".. but how was it?

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The snake was fine! Look at the thread he posted on her. Does ANYTHING about that thread make you think that Trevor wasn't happy with the animal. Look at the great comments that EVERYONE left on it and this was a MONTH after he had it. He has smiley faces all in the thread telling everyone how she "appreciates all the complements." Does that seem to you like he got an unhealthy snake that he wasn't happy with??

You do understand that, at 35,000-45,000 feet---the cruising altitude of most major airlines---temperatures NEVER reach 90 degrees. I doubt they get above freezing. Not to mention that most shipping airlines aren't pressurized.

Fact is, high temps aren't a good enough excuse... unless you're simply proving how ignorant you are.

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Originally Posted by bloodpython171

No excuse at all, you asked and I told the truth as I have the whole time. It was 94 degrees inside and hotter outside, if the snake had been DOA from the extreme temps and Trevor would have wanted his money back eventhough I don't guarantee live arrival if you decide you still want the animal shipped and my/your temps are over 90 degrees and like I said, the snake wasn't out in the box with a little bit of paper like in the pic.

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Matt, you know damn good and well what you did.

This is the absolute most absurd packaging of a snake I have EVER seen, I took pictures of it and contacted SYR about it.

I opened the package and what do I see? Exactly what you see in the second picture.

I have no reason to lie here Matt.

Why would I waste my time talking to Pro Exotics over the phone about your account and what measures they are prepared to take because of this situation?

I've got better things to do with my time....

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Originally Posted by bloodpython171

Like I already stated I didn't ship the snake like that. I don't know if he'll tell the truth or not, but he didn't just open the box and take a pic. He took the snake out of the bag and who knows if the pic was even taken the day he got the snake or yesterday as it had NO DATE??

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by bloodpython171

No excuse at all, you asked and I told the truth as I have the whole time. It was 94 degrees inside and hotter outside, if the snake had been DOA from the extreme temps and Trevor would have wanted his money back eventhough I don't guarantee live arrival if you decide you still want the animal shipped and my/your temps are over 90 degrees and like I said, the snake wasn't out in the box with a little bit of paper like in the pic.

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How did you ship her then?

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Originally Posted by bloodpython171

Like I already stated I didn't ship the snake like that. I don't know if he'll tell the truth or not, but he didn't just open the box and take a pic. He took the snake out of the bag and who knows if the pic was even taken the day he got the snake or yesterday as it had NO DATE??

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From the info in the JPEG file itself:

Image Type: jpeg (The JPEG image format)
Width: 800 pixels
Height: 600 pixels
Camera Brand: Panasonic
Camera Model: DMC-TZ5
Date Taken: 2009:06:29 21:10:32
Exposure Time: 1/30 sec.
ISO Speed Rating: 100
Flash Fired: Flash fired, auto mode.
Metering Mode: Pattern
Exposure Program: Normal program
Focal Length: 4.7 mm
Software: Ver.1.0


Says the date it was taken was 6/29/2009.

Thank you chris
thank you!!!

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Originally Posted by bloodpython171

The snake was fine! Look at the thread he posted on her. Does ANYTHING about that thread make you think that Trevor wasn't happy with the animal. Look at the great comments that EVERYONE left on it and this was a MONTH after he had it. He has smiley faces all in the thread telling everyone how she "appreciates all the complements." Does that seem to you like he got an unhealthy snake that he wasn't happy with??

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I DONT GIVE TWO CRAPS ABOUT THE "GREAT COMMENTS"! I ASKED A DAMN QUESTION AND YOU JUST REFUSE TO ANSWER IT! I'll ask it AGAIN! HOW WAS THE SNAKE SHIPPED?

Maybe someone at UPS did a HOUDINI in mid transit on the box right?

This is EXACTLY how this animal arrived people.

Thank you for your support.

At this point, I think this thread is moot. The fact that Matt is avoiding the issue is plenty enough for me. As far as I'm concerned, you can stick a fork in him.

Thank you, Trevor, for posting this as a warning to others. I hope you get your money back, though I think the possibility is slim. I also hope the snake gets better... she really is a beauty, and it's sad to think she was kept in such a state.

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

Matt, you know damn good and well what you did.

This is the absolute most absurd packaging of a snake I have EVER seen, I took pictures of it and contacted SYR about it.

I opened the package and what do I see? Exactly what you see in the second picture.

I have no reason to lie here Matt.

Why would I waste my time talking to Pro Exotics over the phone about your account and what measures they are prepared to take because of this situation?

I've got better things to do with my time....

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You are lying Trevor and you know you are, I have NEVER shipped any snake ever with no snake bag or anything like that. Swear on your grandfather's grave that when you opened that box you took the pic and that the snake wasn't even in a bag. YOU ARE A LIAR, and everyone else might not know you are, but I do!

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Originally Posted by bloodpython171

You are lying Trevor and you know you are, I have NEVER shipped any snake ever with no snake bag or anything like that. Swear on your grandfather's grave that when you opened that box you took the pic and that the snake wasn't even in a bag. YOU ARE A LIAR, and everyone else might not know you are, but I do!

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I think it would be time for you to stop Matt ! Every time you open your mouth
you dig a deeper hole for yourself ! The right thing to do would give him his money back and move on.

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Originally Posted by bloodpython171

You are lying Trevor and you know you are, I have NEVER shipped any snake ever with no snake bag or anything like that. Swear on your grandfather's grave that when you opened that box you took the pic and that the snake wasn't even in a bag. YOU ARE A LIAR, and everyone else might not know you are, but I do!

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You seem to be the "Liar" as you insist on avoiding, explaining exactly how you packaged the snake...

I cant agree with Ladywhipple more.

This thread was started on here to show people what someone in this business is doing to they're customers and animals.

His track record has spoken for itself as more and more people are popping up explaining they're bad experiences with Matt Oakley, animal wise, and shipping method wise.

I have nothing more to say to this gentleman as there is no further reason I need to defend myself.

The evidence speaks for itself, and you are the jury.

Thank you all.

Trevor

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Originally Posted by waltah!

I can't say this is the first time I've read of Matt Oakley shipping in banana boxes. That was just about the worst packaging I've ever seen.....and it was holding a 16lb blood. I would have shipped a used vcr in better packaging....just sayin.

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What you read about me shipping in a bananna bow was FROZEN RATS not a snake

matt
i dont care if you put the snake in a bag or not but that box isnt secure nor is it approved for shipping anything more than bananas.
if it was so hot why didnt you even ship it (stupid move) and even so without coldpack.
also if this was me and you shipped this snake as shown i wouldnt of even accepted the package PERIOD

also my vet would surely bill you for the care and gladly send you to collections for it

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Originally Posted by bloodpython171

What you read about me shipping in a bananna bow was FROZEN RATS not a snake

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And the hole just keeps getting deeper :O


Well you just said not a snake ?? But you shipped the blood in a banana so which is it you don't ship snakes in banana boxes or you do ? Now im really confused help me out Matt please clear this up for me !

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Originally Posted by bloodpython171

I don't guarantee live arrival if you decide you still want the animal shipped and my/your temps are over 90

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I don't see how you could guarantee live arrival on anything shipped the way this animal was delivered to the buyer.


This thread has turned out just like the frozen rat one on the BOI. Dodging bullets, calling the buyer a liar and throwing excuses left and right. :colbert:

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Originally Posted by bloodpython171

What you read about me shipping in a bananna bow was FROZEN RATS not a snake

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I'm not here to slam anyone, but I don't think you really want to bring that whole thread up. My comment was regarding the shipping and not the animal itself. There is not a single person that will see that shipping box and think it's acceptable, especially for a heavy snake. Again, that has nothing to do with the actual animal. I will say that you only get one chance to make a first impression and the shipping of the animal is the real first impression in my book. The dealings ahead of time are nice, but when I actually receive the animal is when my opinion of the seller really begins. That's not a strong first impression.
Not trying to argue, just stating a fact.

Trevor was polite and professional about the whole ordeal, kept records etc. He has proof backing him. Matt has yet to provide any proof to back his accusations and obviously doesn't care about his future business. I hope he learns his lesson and that others learn from it as well.

I placed an order of 5 snakes from www.royalvariations.com/ ! this would be the right way for you to ship next time !

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...y/IMG_3234.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...y/IMG_3235.jpg

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

From the info in the JPEG file itself:

Image Type: jpeg (The JPEG image format)
Width: 800 pixels
Height: 600 pixels
Camera Brand: Panasonic
Camera Model: DMC-TZ5
Date Taken: 2009:06:29 21:10:32
Exposure Time: 1/30 sec.
ISO Speed Rating: 100
Flash Fired: Flash fired, auto mode.
Metering Mode: Pattern
Exposure Program: Normal program
Focal Length: 4.7 mm
Software: Ver.1.0


Says the date it was taken was 6/29/2009.

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I can program my camera to say whatever date I want also. Anytime I take my batteries out to recharge them it asks me to set the date and time. UPS says the package arrived at 9:24am on 6/30. Your info that you provided says that the pic was taken at 9:10am on 6/29, which isn't possible... Also, I shipped the snake to Trevor's girlfriends job, that doesn't look like Taylor Kelly Construction Company in the background of the pic to me, it looks like someone's house. Like I said before, the pic was not taken right after the box was opened. Not to mention I shipped the snake on 6/29 and it arrived on 6/30, how did he take that pic on 6/29 (the day I shipped it) if it didn't arrive until 6/30. The tracking number is: 1Z 14W 562 01 9931 4803 check it yourself. The snake was not shipped as the pic depicts it and there's the proof that everything said isn't true...

guys don't just jump on the bandwagon here the man has said 3 or 4 times that he knows he should have used a better box, but he also stated that he had much more paper in the box to keep the snake snug and safe, and also was in a bag.... he hasn't been ignoring your questions..... if this is his job or how he makes a living he may have made a mistake but you don't need to poop all over him about that, he admitted and hopefully learned from it....
Obviously the snake was okay for atleast a month and a bit b/c of the thread the buyer made, if the snake has gone down south since then, possibly from the flight or b/c of the conditions it's in now.... but it's very true and we all know that if the snake isn't doing well or feeling TOTALLY comfortable it won't eat, so it couldn't have been that bad
the buyer has yet to show us a recent pic to show the animal he just keeps burying this guy about the shipping, we know that it could have been done MUCH better thats not what this is about, it's about the snake being sick now and dying and how it happened, it sucks for both these guys and i'm sure both would be much happier with a healthy snake and a good deal.... but no need to go after this guys throat unless he's deliberately hurting the animals all the time with no care, if he learns his lesson about shipping let it go we have all messed up before, all our poop stinks

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

She came in with an RI and easily 200 to 300 Mites,

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Originally Posted by burnziesballs8

if the snake has gone down south since then, possibly from the flight or b/c of the conditions it's in now....

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Snakes don't get that many mites overnight on a plane trip.

Just sayin.

Also, I haven't avoided any questions. There are many post to read and I can't read everyones at the same time. What about all the questions that I asked EVERYONE to answer?? Where are the answers?? Just in case you just looked over it:

As I’m sure many people won’t answer on this forum but answer these questions to yourself and put yourself in the shoes of the seller in this situation…

Would you refund someones money if they said you sent them a half dead snake but it was still feeding? Even my MOM said, “Snakes that aren’t healthy don’t eat.”

Would you refund someones money if they said the snake had hundreds of mites crawling over it when they got it and you knew that wasn’t true as this is something that’s literally impossible for you to not notice?

Would you refund someones money if they told you it wheezed and you already refunded $100 no questions asked? When I shipped the snake the temperature in my area was 90 degrees plus.

Would you refund someones money if they told you they took the snake to the vet several times, had it on the best meds/strongest doses available, was doing everything they could to save it but have never told you what’s supposedly wrong with the animal even when asked ? Trevor NEVER stated that this snake had a RI or gave me any other indication that ANYTHING was wrong with this animal at all. All he ever told me was that “SOMETHING” was in her system. What vet prescribes an animal meds and tells you, ”Something’s in your pets system.” No vet is going to give anyone meds not even knowing what they’re treating. If the snake had a URI Trevor would have told me this when I asked.

Would you refund someones money if after over 2 months of owning the snake they contact you telling you they’re going to have the snake euthanized and wanted a refund because she “isn't well enough to my satisfaction?”

Would you refund someones money if the person you sold the snake to told other people that they plan to breed this animal this season and tell you that the animal's condition was so bad they they felt it needed to be euthanized?? If you feel the animal wasn't going to make it why tell others you planned to breed it?

Would you refund someones money if they threatened you every other email that they’ed post a bad guy thread on the BOI about you if you didn’t comply in an attempt to force you to do so?

Who here would ever keep a snake that when received was half dead and swarming with mites risking infection to the rest of your collection, keep that animal for OVER 2 MONTHS and contact who you got it from stating that you were going to have to euthanize the animal and wanted a refund??

Who here can honestly answer yes to all these questions and say that you yourself would refund someone money if you were in my shoes??

Would you refund someones money if a friend told you the buyer posted the animal on a popular forum and EVERYONE was telling them how nice that animal was? You don’t show off half dead, mite infested snakes on forums to show everyone how nice of an animal you just got. You don’t tell people how you plan on breeding the animal and that it’s feeding if you think it might not survive. ANYONE who knows snakes knows that dying snakes don’t keep feeding and if you’re planning on having it euthanized the next day (this is what Trevor told me) then why would you even be trying to feed it?? You don’t put smiley faces all over your thread about the animal if you’re not satisfied with it.

You don’t get comments in the thread that you post on this animal like:

Stunning-I want a blood!

Daaaaaaaaamn boy! You are picking out a killer collection over there! Do I need to come and *ahem* visit?

Absolutely gorgeous!!!

That's a hot deep purple lady! As sweet as the brighter reds are, her darkness only serves to amplify the glowing colors along her sides. Great pickup!

She is beautiful!!!!That was a NICE pick up!!! Who did you get her from?
Smoking girl!

I absolutely love that dark head, she is one hot blood!

You don’t have Jason Holzworth of redpython.net respond: “Weight? She looks perfect,” when you say you want to ad weight to her so you can breed her next season if she’s dying.

Here’s the link to the thread that Trever posted on the snake he received from me a MONTH after he received the snake from me:

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=96664

Does this look like a half dead/sick animal to you?? To much stuff in this doesn’t make since to me.

I sent Trevor a damn beautiful animal and EVERYONE who saw it said the same. Frankly I believe this is a bullcrap way to try to get some money back.

I asked Travor himself to answer these questions, no answers....

This kid is a JOKE!!!

It's your business ethics in question, not ours.

Would you refund someones money if they said you sent them a half dead snake but it was still feeding? Even my MOM said, “Snakes that aren’t healthy don’t eat.”

You didnt send me a half dead snake Matt. The snake has a RI that won't go away.

Would you refund someones money if they said the snake had hundreds of mites crawling over it when they got it and you knew that wasn’t true as this is something that’s literally impossible for you to not notice?

Go get your eyes checked Matt. I bought 2 cans of PAM to deal with the issue.


Would you refund someones money if they told you it wheezed and you already refunded $100 no questions asked? When I shipped the snake the temperature in my area was 90 degrees plus.

Sure would, if it ended up in the animal being this sick, you betcha.

Would you refund someones money if they told you they took the snake to the vet several times, had it on the best meds/strongest doses available, was doing everything they could to save it but have never told you what’s supposedly wrong with the animal even when asked ? Trevor NEVER stated that this snake had a RI or gave me any other indication that ANYTHING was wrong with this animal at all. All he ever told me was that “SOMETHING” was in her system. What vet prescribes an animal meds and tells you, ”Something’s in your pets system.” No vet is going to give anyone meds not even knowing what they’re treating. If the snake had a URI Trevor would have told me this when I asked.

My vet knows the names of the Bacteria, not me, he's the vet. I do know Pseudomonas was one of them, but this bacteria may or may not be what was causing the infection. I told you we started her on antibiotics and consecutive emails in the last page continued the conversation.

Would you refund someones money if after over 2 months of owning the snake they contact you telling you they’re going to have the snake euthanized and wanted a refund because she “isn't well enough to my satisfaction?”

I'd offer to buy the snake back first, I would stand behind my animals.

Would you refund someones money if the person you sold the snake to told other people that they plan to breed this animal this season and tell you that the animal's condition was so bad they they felt it needed to be euthanized?? If you feel the animal wasn't going to make it why tell others you planned to breed it?

I said that information before antibiotic therapy was finished. I wasn't aware she had a bacteria that wasn't going to be killed off by the meds.

Would you refund someones money if they threatened you every other email that they’ed post a bad guy thread on the BOI about you if you didn’t comply in an attempt to force you to do so?

I'd say that the person gave me every chance he could to resolve the situation before he felt it was necessary to make the problem public.

Who here would ever keep a snake that when received was half dead and swarming with mites risking infection to the rest of your collection, keep that animal for OVER 2 MONTHS and contact who you got it from stating that you were going to have to euthanize the animal and wanted a refund??

The snake wasn't half dead, she was half alive. She just needed the right care and support. She is such a beautiful snake, that's why I bought her from you. But despite my and my vets best efforts, she isn't able to fully recover from this.

I'm not mad at you Matt. I do however hope you turn yourself around for your sake and for the future of this hobby. The last thing we would have needed was for this box to have opened up or get squashed. I also wanted to answer your questions for you.

I also feel obligated to tell others of this situation.

I'm out 500 bucks for this animal Matt. You paid some of the vet bills, thank you for that.

I wouldn't sleep right knowing I could have prevented this from happening to someone else.

Best of luck to you.

Trevor

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Originally Posted by burnziesballs8

guys don't just jump on the bandwagon here the man has said 3 or 4 times that he knows he should have used a better box, but he also stated that he had much more paper in the box to keep the snake snug and safe, and also was in a bag.... he hasn't been ignoring your questions..... if this is his job or how he makes a living he may have made a mistake but you don't need to poop all over him about that, he admitted and hopefully learned from it....
Obviously the snake was okay for atleast a month and a bit b/c of the thread the buyer made, if the snake has gone down south since then, possibly from the flight or b/c of the conditions it's in now.... but it's very true and we all know that if the snake isn't doing well or feeling TOTALLY comfortable it won't eat, so it couldn't have been that bad
the buyer has yet to show us a recent pic to show the animal he just keeps burying this guy about the shipping, we know that it could have been done MUCH better thats not what this is about, it's about the snake being sick now and dying and how it happened, it sucks for both these guys and i'm sure both would be much happier with a healthy snake and a good deal.... but no need to go after this guys throat unless he's deliberately hurting the animals all the time with no care, if he learns his lesson about shipping let it go we have all messed up before, all our poop stinks

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Thank you very much. I'm not a bad guy out to get anyone. In over 5 years and almost 700 transactions i've gotten 2 big complaints (this being one) and many many pats on the back that don't make it to the net. I started looking for styrofoam sheets days ago and ONLY shipped without it because of the extreme temps. I haven't has 3/8/05 and that's because the guy left the box on the back porch for 2 days (he even told me this) because he couldn't find it and even then I refunded his money.

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Originally Posted by bloodpython171

Thank you very much. I'm not a bad guy out to get anyone. In over 5 years and almost 700 transactions i've gotten 2 big complaints (this being one) and many many pats on the back that don't make it to the net. I started looking for styrofoam sheets days ago and ONLY shipped without it because of the extreme temps. I haven't has 3/8/05 and that's because the guy left the box on the back porch for 2 days (he even told me this) because he couldn't find it and even then I refunded his money.

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So refund the money and we all can move on !

Okay well based on the tracking info, Trevor is located in Kansas City, Missouri, and i traced your location through your telephone number you provided in a previous thread about you, and your are located in Townson, Maryland... So there wouldnt be that much of a time difference, so chances are Trevor must have had the settings a little messed upon his camera. Where did you get the fact the picture was taken at 9:10 a.m. from? Also Trevor States "She arrived at the shipping address in a duct taped Produce box! " .. So he did state she arrived at the shipping address, so whose to say he has to open the package at "Taylor Kelly Construction Company"... Not anywhere as much proof needed to prove what YOU'RE saying is in fact TRUE... Based on your reputation and Trevors, i 100% Believe Trevor is Telling the whole Truth and nothing but The Truth....

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Originally Posted by Haydenphoto

So refund the money and we all can move on !

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Agreed, just refund the money! Since you want to be doing the right thing and get pats on the back, the least you can do it refund the money!

True, the snake could NEVER be opened at my fiance's place of business.

She works as an accountant for a General Contractor, hardly the place to be peeping at snakes!

I too am in the construction industry, a Union Carpenter. Being difficult to take off work, I usually have animals shipped to her and she brings them home on her lunch break.

I wish I knew how the camera messed that picture up, I checked it just now and it's displaying the correct time....either way that's not the issue.

I'd be praying that poor little girl doesn't have Pneumonia. In snakes that is extremely contagious and usually can only be treated with Baytril. We're not talking about your typical URI, we're talking LRI's, the kind of thing what DESTROYS collections.

She is on Baytril now with no improvement. Either way, she's been through entirely too much. She will be getting put down tomorrow, I did all I could.

I saw one of his cages on his myspace page with duct-tape lining the inside.. that's enough to turn me away let alone his method of keeping and shipping of animals.
Also, a LOT of his cages had condensation on the sides and were noticeably wet or dirty. Just a side note.

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

She is on Baytril now. Either way, she's been through entirely too much. She will be getting put down tomorrow, I did all I could.

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:tears: Sorry to hear your going to put her down :tears:

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

True, the snake could NEVER be opened at my fiance's place of business.

She works as an accountant for a General Contractor, hardly the place to be peeping at snakes!

I too am in the construction industry, a Union Carpenter. Being difficult to take off work, I usually have animals shipped to her and she brings them home on her lunch break.

I wish I knew how the camera messed that picture up, I checked it just now and it's displaying the correct time....either way that's not the issue.

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How convenient, now you camera was incorrect when you took the pic of the animal but a little while ago you were thanking the guy for proving that you took the pic when you said you did. I'm happy you camera now has the correct info programed into it...

Everyone reading this might not know that you didn't take that pic as soon as you opened the box and i'm sure many don't even care. You said I didn't even ship the snake in a bag which is crazy as the bag was blue! But I do know you didn't get it like that and the snake wasn't in the "half alive" condition as you stated which is why you posted it on here to show everyone how nice of an animal you just added to your collection a MONTH after receiving it. No one here can honestly say they would have done the same with an animal in the condition you say she was in, I know I wouldn't. Snakes that are on the brink of death DO NOT FEED and experienced keepers/breeders wouldn't be planning on BREEDING an animal in that condition as you stated in your thread. Only you and me know you lied when you said you just opened the box and took the pic and only you and I again know how I really packed it and the condition of the animal.

You lied about how it was packed and the condition it was in when you got it.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

I saw one of his cages on his myspace page with duct-tape lining the inside.. that's enough to turn me away let alone his method of keeping and shipping of animals.
Also, a LOT of his cages had condensation on the sides and were noticeably wet or dirty. Just a side note.

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That pic was taken years ago, I do not own them anymore

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Originally Posted by bloodpython171

That pic was taken years ago, I do not own them anymore

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Do you have proof you took the pic years ago ? I hope you see my point !

a month is was to long of a wait to complain i agree there

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Originally Posted by Haydenphoto

Do you have proof you took the pic years ago ? I hope you see my point !

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No, as I can not get the properties of the pic from my myspace and the pic is so old that it's on none of my current USBs which means it was on the one that broke a while back and because of that I now save my pics on more than one USB. All of my snakes are now housed in racks and that's all I own. You're right, nothing can REALLY be proved unless you see it yourself, pictures can even be photo shopped and edited which is why I stay out of stuff like this (when i'm not involved) because you really don't know what happened unless you were there when it happened. That's what lawyers are for, to show who's the better talker and can get the most people to believe them and discredit any proof the opposition has. After all there are people on death row how didn't commit the crime they were convicted of...

I did not sent a half dead or half alive (however you'd like to work it snake)

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/...171/--1jpg.jpg

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/...171/--2jpg.jpg

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/...171/--3jpg.jpg

This is the cage she was kept in before being moved to a rack
http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/...171/--4jpg.jpg

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/...redbloodf2.jpg

Wow this truly has become a he said/(s)he said situation. No matter which side you believe, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. I want to thank both Trevor and Matthew for their contributions to this thread. I would like to someday get into selling reptiles, and I've learned a lot about the importance of documentation. I have also never ordered an animal through the internet, but would like to someday, and have also learned a lot about keeping records and pictures on the buyers end.

:popcorn:
Mark

I've been watching this thread all day. You both have valid points and both have things that havent been really proven.
Matt claims the snake wasnt sick, but she was in a plane in most likely feezing temps. for who knows how long. That could explain the URI or LRI whichever it may be, its totally possible that the snake got sick from the plane ride.

Things still in question. The mites and that trevor showed off the snake as if nothing was wrong.

Its easy to be over dramatic and say there's 200-300 mites on the snake, Im not saying that its true or false that there were that many, just saying that he may be exaggerating the amount.

Where they came from. They may have been on the snake from the beginning and Matt shipped the snake anyway. Maybe it picked them up on the way. 200-300 is a bit much to pick up during an overnight trip but i would say it could be possible.

I do find it hard to believe that an experienced keeper, seller and someone who has mostly positive feedback of his sales, wouldn't put the snake in a snake bag, even though the method of packing was so poor.

This has become a big mess, i don't think everyone is being truthful with what they have said.

In the end it MIGHT be entirely Matt's fault that this all happened because of the poor packaging, if that's the case then he should make things right and refund the money.

Just my view on this situation

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Originally Posted by MarkieJ

Wow this truly has become a he said/(s)he said situation. No matter which side you believe, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. I want to thank both Trevor and Matthew for their contributions to this thread. I would like to someday get into selling reptiles, and I've learned a lot about the importance of documentation. I have also never ordered an animal through the internet, but would like to someday, and have also learned a lot about keeping records and pictures on the buyers end.

:popcorn:
Mark

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This is a very good example on why documenting a sale is so important.

ah another one of these debates....I see these daily on my350Z forums but the difference is that your actually dealing with something thats alive which makes you question the morality of the situation more.

I frown on both of the parties in question for not documenting any of this sell.

I guess now you have both learned a valuable lesson in internet trading from personal sellers. I hope everything works out in the future for both the OP and the seller.

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Originally Posted by bloodpython171

Thank you very much. I'm not a bad guy out to get anyone. In over 5 years and almost 700 transactions i've gotten 2 big complaints (this being one) and many many pats on the back that don't make it to the net. I started looking for styrofoam sheets days ago and ONLY shipped without it because of the extreme temps. I haven't has 3/8/05 and that's because the guy left the box on the back porch for 2 days (he even told me this) because he couldn't find it and even then I refunded his money.

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last time i checked styrofoam would insulate from heat and cold, but then again what would i know?
also your pics of this snake do not look the same as it was shipped the shipped one looks very thin.

To matt:

I would question the length of time it took to specify the snake bag was missing. You admitted to that packaging for that snake when you responded to Jamie's query initially and did not mention it then.

In general:

Personally, I would never buy from someone that does not guarantee a 30 day health check (and not all breeders do), let alone someone that does not guarantee a live arrival.

That is one question I ask, even if doing a cash sale at a show, and I get it in writing (yes. I carry my own pens).

If nothing this stands a good example of what documentation and expectations you have of those you buy from, and what documentation is appropriate as both a buyer and a seller.

And always make sure you ask about guarantees, and are comfortable with the answer you get.

Bruce

Perhaps I missed it in this thread but Trevor did you contact Matt when you received and unpacked this snake to confirm it's live arrival and to address with him your concerns about the poor packaging and the excessive number of mites you state were on this snake? If not, how long from when you received the snake until your next contact with Matt and what was the topic of that contact please.

Matt, there is no way if you kept this snake for over a year as you state that you don't have records to post here as to it's health, weight, feeding, etc. Those records might help somewhat to show if you kept this snake within the parameters of good health as you have stated you did.

Trevor, if you've been to the vet as often as you state you have then you should have records, a diagnosis or at least a bill to prove that this snake is very ill and has been on various medications. If the snake has to be euthanized then I would suggest a necropsy to determine fully what caused this snake's death and how long it might have been carrying this illness (if that is possible for your vet to determine). Even without the necropsy has your vet given you any indication of the length of time this particular issue would have been brewing in order for this animal to reach this critically ill stage?

This is a very good lesson in documentation and a good working relationship with breeders you choose to buy from both from the sellers and buyers point of view.

Good points Bruce.

It would be very wise to keep records of transactions as well as any and all emails for instances like this. I'll be taking pictures of future purchases, maybe even video.

Franky-yes I contacted Matt upon arrival via phone call. I told him about the mites and the piss poor packaging, I hadn't noticed the RI until I had her soaking to drown mites.

My only deal is....

He shipped me a healthy snake?

He used the right packaging?

He didn't do this or didn't do that....

But Matt DID hear me out when I called him and sent me back 100 dollars to take care of this girls medical bills.

Why give me back 100 dollars?

I'll check with my vet as to what documents he still has later today.

I really have no more fight in me over this girl you guys, believe what you want. It's been stressful enough trying to get her back to health, now I've got to be called a liar?

Why would I want to lie about this snake?

How does that benefit me?

Do I WANT to put this girl down? No

Do I WANT to have to euthanize her? No

In the end, Matt's got 500 bucks, I've got a dead snake.