Already breeding, but not enough...

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And Littleindiangirl, I read your posts in the sticky and am somewhat confused about your method as well. You talk about the cycle of moving males from one female to the next every two weeks, but you also state that you use concrete tubs with 1.3 I believe. Could you clarify a bit for me? If you move a male on a cycle of 2 weeks through 0.3 tubs, are you letting the females all give birth in the same concrete tub? But if you do only have 1 female per tub like the graph shows what happens if one of the females doesn't get pregnant in the two weeks allowed... You just don't have the litter that week that you are counting on?

Littleindian girl, I like yours because if one female is kept per bin it would be very easy to keep track of who's producing and how old they are, but it seems that this would take up alot of space and if a female missed getting pregnant or had a low number in her litter your numbers would be greatly affected that week.

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I'm not sure where you read that I move the males, please link me maybe?

I do it much like RDR. The males get 1-3 (or 4) females in each breeding tub. The females can be rotated each week through the males like RDR does it, or left in with one male the entire 3 weeks they breed.

After she has been with him for three weeks, she is pulled and put in a maternity tub and nurses by herself until she weans. Rinse and repeat.

I always keep females by themselves, I like to have complete control and know what females are better at production and nursing. I also record how many pinks from each female. This way I hold back grow up females from high production lines.

Missing a litter is just something to deal with if you are using a tight schedule and minimum number of females. Obviously if you have room to spare, throw in more than you need. You can always gas and freeze extra!

Seperating them works much better. I breed rats for myself and others, and when I first started I was using the harlem method and realized it never worked out well. Just use your concrete tub rack as the breeder rack and use a birthing rack for the females. I keep 1.6 in the breeder tubs but will do 1.8 if Im running short on space. Its funny that when I started I was doing everything opposite of what I do now, such as breeding methods and feeding.

I apoligized in advance but will do so again, I'm sorry:oops:. http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=52894 This is where I got the idea that you were doing it that way. Anyway, so if you do house multiple females together and move them to birthing bins how do you keep up with which female is doing what? Surely your memory alone doesn't keep you on track just off of the appearance of each one (well, mine wouldn't:))

Sorry for double posting, but Rocko, I know what you mean about changing methods... I laugh when I think about how I used to breed mice, and now it runs like clockwork!

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Originally Posted by chromeitout

I apoligized in advance but will do so again, I'm sorry:oops:. http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=52894 This is where I got the idea that you were doing it that way. Anyway, so if you do house multiple females together and move them to birthing bins how do you keep up with which female is doing what? Surely your memory alone doesn't keep you on track just off of the appearance of each one (well, mine wouldn't:))

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Just check them, you should be able to tell if a rat is pregnant. I dont really keep track of them its just pull them out let them raise the babies and then back into the breeder rack.

I understand the "check them" thing, but what I'm talking about is keeping track of the individuals that continually have low numbers and should be replaced by new females, due to age or whatever. There is no way that I could remember on looks alone of a particular female that she is a poor producer in a rotating community. I totally understand how the moving around part works, but the question about records is regarding efficiency.

Edit: Also, if there are no records kept in this type of setup you could very possibly have females in the breeding colony taking up space that never get pregnant at all and you wouldn"t know it. You would just check her, see that she wasn't pregnant and put her back in there until next week when you would do the same thing again.

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Originally Posted by chromeitout

Thanks for the replies from the two of you. You both seem to recommend very different methods, and RDR's is also totally different from either of those (I know that there are many ways to skin a cat, or breed a rat:))

Suzuki, I believe that you are stating that you keep 1.4 per concrete tub and never move male or females, even for birthing/nursing, correct? This is basically what I've been doing for a year and for some reason I do not get a good production rate... eaten babies, females that just never get pregnant, etc.

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what is their diet?

No, only movement is removing young or for cleaning purposes

I currently have approx 20 racks and produce 800-1100 a week. My record is 1700 in a week.

My tubs are 1.4 with a few exceptions that ended with 1.5 in them and produce...
No clue how...just did and not changing it until they are retired.

I use 5 grow out racks and females are replaced with any pregnant looking females from the grow out rack once they start showing.

Basically, I combine the expected mothers with a male...when I get 8, I replace the females from 2 tubs to a quarantine cage (which is basically the empty spots on the grow out rack.)

These are retired breeders...they end up as food if the pet shops won't take them...but jumbo rats are pretty sought after here.

I only record output per week per tub. Less than 40/month and they all get replaced

I use auto water and their feed is plentiful

Normally I only check food/water every other day....and clean once a week.

Cleaning I use kiln pine and dust the bottom of the pans with baking soda. Baking soda keeps down odor and helps the litter not stick to the pan.

I use mazuri 6f

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

Basically, I combine the expected mothers with a male...when I get 8, I replace the females from 2 tubs to a quarantine cage (which is basically the empty spots on the grow out rack.)

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?

I use 6F as well. So, you have 20 racks of 7 tubs = 140 tubs that produce 1000 a week?

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Originally Posted by chromeitout

I apoligized in advance but will do so again, I'm sorry:oops:. http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=52894 This is where I got the idea that you were doing it that way. Anyway, so if you do house multiple females together and move them to birthing bins how do you keep up with which female is doing what? Surely your memory alone doesn't keep you on track just off of the appearance of each one (well, mine wouldn't:))

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Ahh, I suppose the chart at first glance can make it look like the males are moving around, but it's actually the females that are moved into the males tubs. :P Look closer, males cant move around if a few different females are with him for 3 weeks.

I do personally keep track of all of my rats, what they look like etc. I am anal that way, I certainly dont expect anyone else to do it this way. I try not to duplicate rats with the same pattern, color, ears, coat.

However, I do have a non toxic, water proof, permanent marker to write on their tails or fur for identification. It works that way too.

Labs generally do ear marking, ear tagging, tattooing, or dying of the fur/writing on tails to keep track. Writing on tails is just easier and heck of a lot cheaper, with no risk of infection. I can't think of anyone who does it like me. :oops:

But, back on point, depending on how you want to do it, if you do like ralph, he moves the females down and through the males tubs every week, so by the time they reach the 3rd or 4th tub, they should finally be pregnant. If they continue all the way through to the bottom (I think he has like 20 tubs in a rack) then that girl just isn't going to get pregnant.

It's probably the easiest way to do it, and writing the method out is sort of hard to explain. It's in one of his rat barn videos, watching him do it and explain as he goes is the easiest way to learn it. :gj:

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Originally Posted by chromeitout

I understand the "check them" thing, but what I'm talking about is keeping track of the individuals that continually have low numbers and should be replaced by new females, due to age or whatever. There is no way that I could remember on looks alone of a particular female that she is a poor producer in a rotating community. I totally understand how the moving around part works, but the question about records is regarding efficiency.

Edit: Also, if there are no records kept in this type of setup you could very possibly have females in the breeding colony taking up space that never get pregnant at all and you wouldn"t know it. You would just check her, see that she wasn't pregnant and put her back in there until next week when you would do the same thing again.

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Thats is true, and can happen to where rats may not be getting pregnant. Never thought about it though.